Why does everyone hate the 4080?

[Vayra86]

To everyone who was wondering about why the RTX 4080 was pretty much sold very quickly, this is likely because their stock was extremely low to begin with, at least according to Moore's Law Is Dead sources.

View attachment 270458

I'd ignore this joker if I were you.

 

[JustBenching]

The fact that you think nvidia is directly responsible for the prices is ludicrous. The 3080 was priced at 699 right? How many people got it for that price? They couldn't even fill an elevator. Supply and demand are the magic words. If it sells like crazy at 1200 MSRP, there is absolutely no freaking reason for nvidia to reduce the prices. Actually, theyd have to be stupid to do so. And in fact, if they did reduce the price to lets say, 699,youd still be mad cause you wouldn't be able to buy one, they would be out of stock everywhere.

 

[AusWolf]

Have never seen him before in my life, just happened to come across his video about the matter.
I'll take it with a grain of salt.

Personally, I just blocked that channel altogether as a lot of their "rumours" turned out to be completely wrong after a couple of months or years. Utter BS they are.

You're not wrong. It's important to be objective and critical I get that, but it is amusing to continually hear from people (mostly on reddit but also here) about why say the GFX card I purchased for myself was the wrong choice lol. They often see us talking positively about it as confirmation bias or something, but I put more stock in an owners opinion over someone who doesn't own one and chooses to crap on it with zero first hand experience. I've been guilty of it myself, but I'd add that from my perspective it usually a multi factor thing, like the price+multiple aspects of the specs and features suck, not just the price, or one part of the spec, or one feature etc. Take the 4080, it's actually a really good product technically speaking, it's just been given an MSRP/street price that most people think is too high, broadly speaking that's by far it's largest drawback, if perhaps the only serious drawback.

Turns out, a product at a given price has a place for everyone, you're happy with your 4090, power to you, I'm sure somewhere, people are happy with their 6500XT's and 3050's, power to them too. Both products at almost opposite ends of the spectrum and have groups that intensely hate them, groups made up in vast majorities by people who don't own them and would seemingly prefer your purchase decision aligned to their personal procurement strategy and needs, it's fascinating.

The crux in that is that it's easy to be happy with something that fits your needs and budget, but that doesn't mean that it fits someone else's too. I was happy with my 6500 XT before I upgraded. You wouldn't be because your performance target is higher.

Some people are happy with the 4080 or 4090 and they don't give a flying f*** how much they paid for it. Like you said, all the power to them. It still doesn't mean that the 4080 is an objectively good buy. You can be happy to do your shopping in a Ferrari Enzo, but it doesn't mean that it's the perfect car for the job for everyone.

I'm a good example, too. I tend to buy a shitload of hardware and up- and downgrade far more often than I need to, because I'm curious. I downgraded my 2070 to a 6500 XT, then switched back to the 2070 after a while, and now I have a 6750 XT. Am I happy? Yes. Was this whole endeavor an absolute waste of money considering my performance target? Totally, yes. Would I do it again? Absolutely. Would I recommend others to do the same? Never ever.

To stay on topic, I only recommend buying the 4080 or 4090 if you want the best of the best, and you're loaded with cash. If you care about your spending just the tiniest bit, stay away.

 

[Vayra86]

Personally, I just blocked that channel altogether as a lot of their "rumours" turned out to be completely wrong after a couple of months or years. Utter BS they are.


The crux in that is that it's easy to be happy with something that fits your needs and budget, but that doesn't mean that it fits someone else's too. I was happy with my 6500 XT before I upgraded. You wouldn't be because your performance target is higher.

Some people are happy with the 4080 or 4090 and they don't give a flying f*** how much they paid for it. Like you said, all the power to them. It still doesn't mean that the 4080 is an objectively good buy. You can be happy to do your shopping in a Ferrari Enzo, but it doesn't mean that it's the perfect car for the job for everyone.

I'm a good example, too. I tend to buy a shitload of hardware and up- and downgrade far more often than I need to, because I'm curious. I downgraded my 2070 to a 6500 XT, then switched back to the 2070 after a while, and now I have a 6750 XT. Am I happy? Yes. Was this whole endeavor an absolute waste of money considering my performance target? Totally, yes. Would I do it again? Absolutely. Would I recommend others to do the same? Never ever.

To stay on topic, I only recommend buying the 4080 or 4090 if you want the best of the best, and you're loaded with cash. If you care about your spending just the tiniest bit, stay away.

Its a very human reflex to look positively on your own purchases. After all, our mind has been convinced they are good choices; we made a (subconscious) effort to believe this was a good choice, so its a direct attack on our ego if other people make or motivate different choices and apply rational arguments that stick. It stings, somewhere, somehow, even if we say it doesn't. Again, human reflex/psychology. Its how we protect ourselves.

That's why I made the point of reflection on choices (and stances) a few years down the line. Reflecting like that can provide those eureka moments where you realize what happened to your brain in the past. In a world full of marketing and commerce, its important to do that from time to time, to keep making rational choices. Its ALSO fine if we're conscious of the rationale, and still choose to satisfy the emotion. But I cannot stress how important it is to separate those clearly, and determine what truly made us purchase/do what we do. When you are capable of that reflection, true wisdom emerges and defeats instant gratification.

From the outside though its extremely easy to identify cognitive dissonance, much more easily than it is to see it from yourself.

 

[AusWolf]

Its a very human reflex to look positively on your own purchases. After all, our mind has been convinced they are good choices; we made a (subconscious) effort to believe this was a good choice, so its a direct attack on our ego if other people make or motivate different choices and apply rational arguments that stick. It stings, somewhere, somehow, even if we say it doesn't. Again, human reflex/psychology. Its how we protect ourselves.

That's why I made the point of reflection on choices (and stances) a few years down the line. Reflecting like that can provide those eureka moments where you realize what happened to your brain in the past. In a world full of marketing and commerce, its important to do that from time to time, to keep making rational choices. Its ALSO fine if we're conscious of the rationale, and still choose to satisfy the emotion. But I cannot stress how important it is to separate those clearly, and determine what truly made us purchase/do what we do.

From the outside though its extremely easy to identify cognitive dissonance, much more easily than it is to see it from yourself.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Nvidia appears to be trying to build around the emotion that precedes the cognitive dissonance you're talking about. People know that the 40-series is a bad buy, but they buy it anyway because they're told that it's the best. Then they see hundreds of FPS that makes them happy and forget about (or purposefully disregard) the fact that they could have had the same hundreds of FPS by spending far less.

This is why I hate the 40-series. Not because of the actual physical properties of the products themselves. It's good, but its marketing and price are cognitive dissonance in action.

 

[wolf]

It's also possible to reflect highly on our own choices because a lot of preparation went into the choice. Setting a baseline for what you want from a product in terms of performance, features, price, and tertiary considerations etc, then pulling the trigger on the purchase, and of course being happy with it, because you previously defined what that baseline for success would be. Definitely revisit that as time goes on, and unexpectedly I'm even more happy than immediately following the purchase.

 

[AusWolf]

It's also possible to reflect highly on our own choices because a lot of preparation went into the choice. Setting a baseline for what you want from a product in terms of performance, features, price, and tertiary considerations etc, then pulling the trigger on the purchase, and of course being happy with it, because you previously defined what that baseline for success would be. Definitely revisit that as time goes on, and unexpectedly are even more happy than immediately following the purchase.

The only question is, how objective you can be when you revisit those choices. A lot of my upgrades ended up with the conclusion "meh, it works" or "it's okay" lately, but it would not necessarily be like that if I got blinded by how much money I've spent. That's the cognitive dissonance part of it. You (general "you") justify your bad choices by the sacrifices you made for them. Just like dining at a super fancy restaurant. Even though you're still hungry by the end of your meal, you're telling yourself that it was a good experience because you blew a shitload of money away. It's not the 1990s and early 2000s anymore when the jump from a GeForce 256 to a GeForce 4 Ti was massive. All you see nowadays is a bit more FPS which hardly justifies spending $6-700 more on one graphics card over another (looking at the 4080 vs the 3080).

 

[lexluthermiester]

RTX 4090 Owner Hits Nvidia With Lawsuit Over Melting 16-pin Connector | Tom's Hardware (tomshardware.com)

Gee, who saw THIS coming? I agree with the suit on those points. That connector is poorly designed and as Steve over at GN showed a few days ago, very dangerous and should never have been used. I have unfortunately seen an example of this melting connector. It was sold to an experienced PC user and was installed in a proper way. Not going to be promoting or selling anything that has that connector going forward and will be actively telling people to avoid it. Looks like AMD will be getting the bulk of my GPU business until NVidia goes back to the previous PCIe connector, which is a proven safe technology. That connector and the VERY poorly designed "adapter" cable is a joke and was from the beginning.

 

[nguyen]

You're not wrong. It's important to be objective and critical I get that, but it is amusing to continually hear from people (mostly on reddit but also here) about why say the GFX card I purchased for myself was the wrong choice lol. They often see us talking positively about it as confirmation bias or something, but I put more stock in an owners opinion over someone who doesn't own one and chooses to crap on it with zero first hand experience. I've been guilty of it myself, but I'd add that from my perspective it usually a multi factor thing, like the price+multiple aspects of the specs and features suck, not just the price, or one part of the spec, or one feature etc. Take the 4080, it's actually a really good product technically speaking, it's just been given an MSRP/street price that most people think is too high, broadly speaking that's by far it's largest drawback, if perhaps the only serious drawback.

Turns out, a product at a given price has a place for everyone, you're happy with your 4090, power to you, I'm sure somewhere, people are happy with their 6500XT's and 3050's, power to them too. Both products at almost opposite ends of the spectrum and have groups that intensely hate them, groups made up in vast majorities by people who don't own them and would seemingly prefer your purchase decision aligned to their personal procurement strategy and needs, it's fascinating.

hehe, you just gotta tune out others opinions, especially from people who have nothing better to do than giving opinions without having any experience (just worthless opinions).

As for 4080 prices, it's unlikely that prices will fall any time soon, so if time is valuable to some people, perhaps it's just better to grab a 4080 at the earliest and at MSRP and just enjoy kick ass gaming experience. I know my time is worth a lot, so I just buy the best GPU when it come out and enjoy it for 2 years before moving on to the next best GPU .

 

[Vayra86]

hehe, you just gotta tune out others opinions, especially from people who have nothing better to do than giving opinions without having any experience (just worthless opinions).

As for 4080 prices, it's unlikely that prices will fall any time soon, so if time is valuable to some people, perhaps it's just better to grab a 4080 at the earliest and at MSRP and just enjoy kick ass gaming experience. I know my time is worth a lot, so I just buy the best GPU when it come out and enjoy it for 2 years before moving on to the next best GPU .

If time is valuable to people, another way to approach life is to not spend everything on overpriced goods and instead just work a few hours less each week.

Now thát's making the most out of time, in my book. But we all have our preferences. Shouldn't you be gaming, rather than tuning out of opinions on a forum?

 

[Dr. Dro]

To everyone who was wondering about why the RTX 4080 was pretty much sold very quickly, this is likely because their stock was extremely low to begin with, at least according to Moore's Law Is Dead sources.

View attachment 270458

Truckload of salt when it comes to MLID. Truth is, it's gonna be a best seller. The average consumer doesn't really care for the market conditions and the whole economics behind it, just the price, and they are very tolerant to higher prices to get what they want.

 

[AusWolf]

If time is valuable to people, another way to approach life is to not spend everything on overpriced goods and instead just work a few hours less each week.

Now thát's making the most out of time, in my book. But we all have our preferences. Shouldn't you be gaming, rather than tuning out of opinions on a forum?

If time (and money) is valuable, I'd much rather buy a 3080 or 6800 XT and call it a day. If one needs more, they can wait for more reasonable deals to come by.

I just buy the best GPU when it come out and enjoy it for 2 years before moving on to the next best GPU .

That is a HUGE waste of money, but if you're fine with that, who am I to judge.

 

[Omga4000]

Personally, I just blocked that channel altogether as a lot of their "rumours" turned out to be completely wrong after a couple of months or years. Utter BS they are.

I'd ignore this joker if I were you.

Yup, looks like that's what I'll be doing

Following everything that was discussed here about the melting connectors of the 4090 (and possibly of the 4080 as well):

 

[wolf]

The only question is, how objective you can be when you revisit those choices

I think quite objective honestly, I spose we'll see in 2 years time, so far nothing is compelling enough for me to part with how much money they're asking, I'd be chasing a 2x+ uplift for roughly what I paid for the 3080. I certainly don't need extra performance right now, but there's always the desire for it.

I will admit however that no matter my assessment now, or in 2 years, there will certainly be a layer of acceptance over the top because the card paid for itself and then some. I'll happily be critical of it as a purchase, but at the end of the day it was effectively free and put more money into my pocket for whatever I want next, kinda hard to be sore about maybe turning down textures from ultra to very high (should that need to happen) on a product that paid for itself lol.

Now thát's making the most out of time, in my book. But we all have our preferences. Shouldn't you be gaming, rather than tuning out of opinions on a forum?

Never been a fan of that 'argument' honestly, the why aren't you / shouldn't you be somewhere else, we're all here on this forum discussing, we also all do many many other things with the remaining vast majority of our time.

 

[nguyen]

Never been a fan of that 'argument' honestly, the why aren't you / shouldn't you be somewhere else, we're all here on this forum discussing, we also all do many many other things with the remaining vast majority of our time.

hehe, I got some observations regarding the make up of forum users
Like this TPU polls

Or WCCF poll

Despite Nvidia holding 80% of dGPU marketshare, the majority of forum users are very AMD-centric, I theorize that most Nvidia owners are often not active in forums (or at least english forums, Asian countries don't care about AMD GPU at all)

OP had very good idea about looking at Steam Hardware Survey, but asking opinions in forums, not so much.

 

[Vayra86]

hehe, I got some observations regarding the make up of forum users
Like this TPU polls
View attachment 270644
Or WCCF poll
View attachment 270646

Despite Nvidia holding 80% of dGPU marketshare, the majority of forum users are very AMD-centric, I theorize that most Nvidia owners are often not active in forums (or at least english forums, Asian countries don't care about AMD GPU at all)

OP had very good idea about looking at Steam Hardware Survey, but asking opinions in forums, not so much.

And the quest for confirmation continues in a new direction...

Sad, indeed
Is it so hard to accept that things can change and that you've become an exception to that? The numbers dont lie, you post them yourself.

I think quite objective honestly, I spose we'll see in 2 years time, so far nothing is compelling enough for me to part with how much money they're asking, I'd be chasing a 2x+ uplift for roughly what I paid for the 3080. I certainly don't need extra performance right now, but there's always the desire for it.

I will admit however that no matter my assessment now, or in 2 years, there will certainly be a layer of acceptance over the top because the card paid for itself and then some. I'll happily be critical of it as a purchase, but at the end of the day it was effectively free and put more money into my pocket for whatever I want next, kinda hard to be sore about maybe turning down textures from ultra to very high (should that need to happen) on a product that paid for itself lol.


Never been a fan of that 'argument' honestly, the why aren't you / shouldn't you be somewhere else, we're all here on this forum discussing, we also all do many many other things with the remaining vast majority of our time.

Oh yeah, I think you definitely timed it right, that one, seeing as we havent seen much better offerings since.

 

[wolf]

hehe, I got some observations regarding the make up of forum users ....
Like this TPU polls .... very good idea about looking at Steam Hardware Survey, but asking opinions in forums, not so much.

I see that 100%, it's almost the reverse of the market share positions in terms of vocal supporters on forums (here and others), to a fault. It's turned into an echo chamber before and there's just no amount of reason that can break through that, I've bowed out before, knowing I'm getting nowhere. Even people that don't comment pile likes/votes which clearly show where their support lies, even when the argument is wrong/in bad faith/twisted narrative and so on.

Think of it a bit like this, you're in a room with three other people. You say the sky is blue, they say it's actually a pulsating fluoro pink, since they agree with each other, and have a majority, you're the odd one out and more often than not, no amount of reasoning with them will have them see you're actually correct, in that case what do you do? I drop it, let them be confidently incorrect and enjoy their version of reality.

Look I get throwing some support behind the underdog, who doesn't want an underdog to succeed? And who doesn't like heated competition for all? Those are great things, as is calling out bs when you see it, like pricing for example in this thread. What I see increasingly on forums is armchair psychology, armchair engineers, armchair company strategists, politics, schadenfreude, playing favourites (dismissing similar actions of one but crucifying the other, or lauding a good news story for one but not the other), copium, and some plain old hatred. There's probably more, and it'll probably get worse before it gets better.

 

[AusWolf]

hehe, I got some observations regarding the make up of forum users
Like this TPU polls
View attachment 270644
Or WCCF poll
View attachment 270646

Despite Nvidia holding 80% of dGPU marketshare, the majority of forum users are very AMD-centric, I theorize that most Nvidia owners are often not active in forums (or at least english forums, Asian countries don't care about AMD GPU at all)

OP had very good idea about looking at Steam Hardware Survey, but asking opinions in forums, not so much.

My theory is that forum users know their ways about PC parts and how much X part is worth, and they're more conscious about where they put their money, and how much money they spend. But forum users are not the only buyers. There's still lots of people who know nothing about PCs, just walk into a store and trust the crew to hook them up with whatever they've got. There's also lots of system builder companies who specialize on selling for these people. If you're an average Joe, and you see a PC for $1,500 and another for $2,000, you'll obviously know that the more expensive one is better. What you won't know is 1. whether it's better for your specific use case, and 2. how much better exactly. You may be paying double the price for 10% more performance and you won't even know about it. As an average Joe, you probably won't even care because you've got the latest GeForce yadda-yadda and it spits FPS and it's awesome. These people are the majority buyers nowadays and Nvidia seems to be focusing on them, as they're the easiest to be milked.

TLDR: Forum users are not the majority market. We're an exception.

Edit: OP did very well to ask in a forum, because we know our ways around PC parts. The majority of Steam users who buy pre-built PCs nowadays? Erm... let's leave it at that.

 

[nguyen]

I see that 100%, it's almost the reverse of the market share positions in terms of vocal supporters on forums (here and others), to a fault. It's turned into an echo chamber before and there's just no amount of reason that can break through that, I've bowed out before, knowing I'm getting nowhere. Even people that don't comment pile likes/votes which clearly show where their support lies, even when the argument is wrong/in bad faith/twisted narrative and so on.

Think of it a bit like this, you're in a room with three other people. You say the sky is blue, they say it's actually a pulsating fluoro pink, since they agree with each other, and have a majority, you're the odd one out and more often than not, no amount of reasoning with them will have them see you're actually correct, in that case what do you do? I drop it, let them be confidently incorrect and enjoy their version of reality.

Look I get throwing some support behind the underdog, who doesn't want an underdog to succeed? And who doesn't like heated competition for all? Those are great things, as is calling out bs when you see it, like pricing for example in this thread. What I see increasingly on forums is armchair psychology, armchair engineers, armchair company strategists, politics, schadenfreude, playing favourites (dismissing similar actions of one but crucifying the other, or lauding a good news story for one but not the other), copium, and some plain old hatred. There's probably more, and it'll probably get worse before it gets better.

Nah I think OP realized that 4080 MSRP is terrible vs 4090, but actual street price for 4090 are 2000usd+ where he lives, whereas he can buy 4080 for 1260usd. Market condition is not guaranteed to improve anytime soon and 7900XTX coming will not fix it.

2 possible scenarios:
_7900XTX sucks (tie with 4080 in raster) and sell exactly at 1000usd MSRP or
_7900XTX are so good it gonna get scalped anyways, inflating its price to 4080's MSRP.

So yeah, just like the 3080Ti, its MSRP was terrible but during terrible time, it wasn't so bad LOL

 

[P4-630]

Nobody Wants NVIDIA's $1199 US GeForce RTX 4080: Despite Lower Shipments, Retailers & Stores Are Stocked With Cards

NVIDIA's GeForce RTX 4080 is witnessing poor sales days after its launch and that is very much due to its absurd $1199 US pricing.

wccftech.com

Prices in my country and in stock:

 

[AusWolf]

2 possible scenarios:
_7900XTX sucks (tie with 4080 in raster) and sell exactly at 1000usd MSRP or
_7900XTX are so good it gonna get scalped anyways, inflating its price to 4080's MSRP.

You call the $1,000 7900 XTX tying with the $1,200 4080 a fail?

 

[Omga4000]

Despite Nvidia holding 80% of dGPU marketshare, the majority of forum users are very AMD-centric

I'm not sure if that's really the case.
I'm nVidia-centric myself, but I am rooting for AMD as much as I can.
I think the majority of us are just tired of nVidia's monopoly and trashing on its users.
We want a decent competitor, not only in price-to-performance but also in pure performance.
I want to see AMD competing against nVidia's high-end (ex-Titan / 4090 Ti) cards and leaving them in the dust.

Even if I choose to stay with nVidia, at least it'll be because I CHOSE to do it and not because nVidia is the only choice for top-tier performance all the time and I must go with it.

Nah I think OP realized that 4080 MSRP is terrible vs 4090, but actual street price for 4090 are 2000usd+ where he lives, whereas he can buy 4080 for 1260usd. Market condition is not guaranteed to improve anytime soon and 7900XTX coming will not fix it.

Can confirm this is correct. I know I am being screwed with the 4080's and I'd hate to support nVidia for what they're doing, but I also feel like I've waited too long and meh.
Luckily I have yet to pick up my cards before opening this thread and I won't be picking them up / opening them until the AMD 7900 XTX is released.
I can freely return them until January 14th, so I have ~1 month to see what's going to happen with the market.
If the 7900 XTX reviews really show it's better than the 4080 (especially at VR games & RT), I'll definitely be returning the 4080's.
Either that, or if I manage to grab a 4090 at MSRP.

 

[64K]

The guys that are voting more than $1,400 in the poll aren't kidding. Retailers are gouging. Also, I just checked Ebay and the 4080s are selling for between $1,500 and $1,900 and there's already a lot of them. These are actually "sold" prices that I checked. It's not miners this time. It's gamers. Incredible.

 

[Dirt Chip]

Nah I think OP realized that 4080 MSRP is terrible vs 4090, but actual street price for 4090 are 2000usd+ where he lives, whereas he can buy 4080 for 1260usd. Market condition is not guaranteed to improve anytime soon and 7900XTX coming will not fix it.

2 possible scenarios:
_7900XTX sucks (tie with 4080 in raster) and sell exactly at 1000usd MSRP or
_7900XTX are so good it gonna get scalped anyways, inflating its price to 4080's MSRP.

So yeah, just like the 3080Ti, its MSRP was terrible but during terrible time, it wasn't so bad LOL

We will definitely see those who bouth 7900xxx at 1000+$ with the utmost conviction thay made justice by supporting the "under-dog" while striking retaliation vs greddy NV practice. But AMD is no under-dog, it is (still) just a smaller NV who also exploit (like NV) the market that takes them as the 'budget option'. NV exploit on mindeshere and top absolute performance, AMD on "I`m the underdog budget" but both do the same thing eventually to get the most $$$ from a given situation on the consumer back.
AMD will sit quietly from the side, with a big smile, and will keep on riding NV`s wave of upping the cost gen to gen while enjoying the "robin-hood' image that rage blinded, NV haters, poorly informs and easy to manipulate consumers entitled them.
The absurdness will skyrocket to new levels once again, like wattage consumption, GPU`s physical volume size, cost and diminishing returns.

 

[Omga4000]

Nobody Wants NVIDIA's $1199 US GeForce RTX 4080: Despite Lower Shipments, Retailers & Stores Are Stocked With Cards

NVIDIA's GeForce RTX 4080 is witnessing poor sales days after its launch and that is very much due to its absurd $1199 US pricing.

wccftech.com

Prices in my country and in stock:

Didn't we say we're ignoring this YouTube channel?

I can confirm this is the same in my country (US, WA). There is no stock at all for the 4080's as well.
I do see a 1,400$ one from ASUS going back in stock sometimes, but it is also disappearing quickly when it does show up.
The ones that are being sold (not by an official retailer) are being sold for over 2,000$. That's even more expensive than the already inflated 4090.