Ryzen Owners Zen Garden

3x0 · Jan 19, 2023

INSTG8R said:
Yeah those are pretty tight I mean seeing as I can’t OC my RAM I suppose I could see how tight I can get them

The thing is, 5800x3D should have 3-4ns slower latency compared to 5600x on the same timings. I would guess some background service is causing the added latency.

freeagent · Jan 19, 2023

The best I saw with my X3D was like 56.2, so don't feel too bad. I had to run my sticks fairly hard to do it. Best I saw with my 5600X was 49-50ns running my sticks pretty hard.

BlaezaLite · Jan 19, 2023

What's a "normal" score for a 5700X on R23?

Mine is doing this...

Have I put this in the wrong place?

INSTG8R · Jan 19, 2023

freeagent said:
The best I saw with my X3D was like 56.2, so don't feel too bad. I had to run my sticks fairly hard to do it. Best I saw with my 5600X was 49-50ns running my sticks pretty hard.

Same

3x0 said:
The thing is, 5800x3D should have 3-4ns slower latency compared to 5600x on the same timings. I would guess some background service is causing the added latency.

Well I was OCing my RAM on the 5600X so I’d expect be results

Super XP · Jan 19, 2023

Mussels said:
I saw significant gains at 4k
Remember that a big part of it's advantage is that it doesnt care about low latency ram any more, so running 32GB+ of slower ram becomes a non issue

Helped a person remotely build an AM5 system over facebook the last few days, was "fun" at times
View attachment 279860

Key thing came up here here: over tightening the AM5 cooler resulted in slow boots, DRAM light, VGA light etc with an after market AM4/AM5 universal cooler
Any time you hear of people with AM5 issues, remind them to loosen the damn cooler! universal ones can go tighter on AM5 than they need to, and cause some weird issues

Hmm interesting. How about Socket AM4?

Blaeza said:
What's a "normal" score for a 5700X on R23?

Mine is doing this...
View attachment 279917

That 5700X has a higher score than my 5800X. Think I'm in the range of around 13600 to 14000. Hmm

BlaezaLite · Jan 19, 2023

Super XP said:
Hmm interesting. How about Socket AM4?

That 5700X has a higher score than my 5800X. Think I'm in the range of around 13600 to 14000. Hmm

OOOOkay... Now I'm confused. I'm sure PBO and all that is turned off, but whilst I was running the R23 test, my CPU wattage was in the 150's!

Toothless · Jan 19, 2023

4x16GB dual ranks. My x570 Hero can't do this but the Mag Ace can. Guess I'm switching boards at some point but I'm really, really lazy to.

INSTG8R · Jan 19, 2023

Blaeza said:
What's a "normal" score for a 5700X on R23?

Mine is doing this...
View attachment 279917

Have I put this in the wrong place?

My R23 score for reference obviously I'm lower clocked. I think you're where you should be-

BlaezaLite · Jan 19, 2023

INSTG8R said:
My R23 score for reference obviously I'm lower clocked. I think you're where you should be-

View attachment 279939

What is going on with my CPU then? It shouldn't be as fast as this. 5800X3D clocks to 4.5, am I right?

Edit. A little trip to the bios shows me having PBO on "Advanced". I'm a tit, sorry people!

Mussels · Jan 20, 2023

Space Lynx said:
I was under the impression that games really don't use more than 6 cores anywa

RIght now they dont, but they will soon enough

I had this discussion with a very angry intel fanboy about intels 6+HT + E core setup and got called a paid AMD shill
We already see limits on quad core CPU's where HT cant make up the lack of cores, 6 to 8 will do the same - and E-cores wont help any more than HT/SMT cores

mechtech said:
Interesting. I wonder if am4 suffers that or if noctua coolers can??

I believe it's a risk for any cooler that is not specifically designed for AM5, it's possible to overtighten CPU coolers on almost any platform - it causes that 'hardware reserved' memory issue on several intel sockets for example, it's just an overall issue with the LGA platform vs PGA - uneven tightening see-saws the CPU over, and one side of the CPU has poor contact
Coolers with four screws would be less likely to have an issue, but anyone could still do it wrong by doing one corner all the way first, then the others (And this person was a literal first time PC builder)

3x0 said:
Here's my result with 3600 b-die with tight timings, 5600x vs 5800x3d
View attachment 279896
View attachment 279895

I remember breaking under 60ns with extreme effort, anything in the background at all changed the scores so much

I'll see how the x3D does at this now i'm on 100% stable settings
Zero effort run just quit everything - but shows how the x3D doesnt care for major differences in the RAM (CL14 to CL18) - and mine are loose nasty timings for sure

Interesting that it doesnt show the amount of DRAM or the ranks - 2x32 DR obviously aint as easy as 2x8SR but you'd think it'd be relevant to the aida folks

Space Lynx · Jan 20, 2023

Can someone explain to me effective clocks? So, my 4.7 all core Ryzen 5600 non-x cpu isn't really getting 4.7 all core is it? it only jumps to 4.7 when i run benches, but not in games...

so that means I am not getting the benefit of 4.7 all core in traditional overclocking terms... so there is really no point and I should just leave CPU at stock?

Count von Schwalbe · Jan 20, 2023

A complicated mess revolving around C-states. Long story short - parts of the CPU turn off to save power. This is super dynamic and in your screenshot, it is happening multiple times across a single polling interval. Using Core 4 Thread 0 as an example: the core is running at the full 4700 MHz, but the part of it that is T0 was turned off 99.9% of the time. If you really want effective 4.7 GHz static OC, disable C-states. Then wonder why it pulls so much power

Bear in mind that your latency as the core ramps up is practically non-existent stock, let alone with a Static OC and c-states enabled. I doubt that disabling them will help (if it has AVX offset it will hurt, I can't remember if it does). Honestly, I would think that your static OC may actually be hurting you for gaming as the ST boost might not be as high as a dynamic OC.

Mussels · Jan 20, 2023

View attachment 279976

Space Lynx said:
Can someone explain to me effective clocks? So, my 4.7 all core Ryzen 5600 non-x cpu isn't really getting 4.7 all core is it? it only jumps to 4.7 when i run benches, but not in games...

so that means I am not getting the benefit of 4.7 all core in traditional overclocking terms... so there is really no point and I should just leave CPU at stock?

View attachment 279979

Important to note if you're at idle or load when this happens, use the reset button to be sure

At idle, it's saying "you're at X clock speed but sleeping most of it, so it's really only active this much"
At load if you're showing 4.7GHz but effective 4.0, you're throttling for one reason or another (PBO, heat, etc)

I've never, ever had to disable C-states on any working machine - it can be a workaround for instability on certain extreme overclocks (like an offset voltage thats fine at load but not at idle) but it tends to have consequences elsewhere, awake cores use power so you cant boost as high, etc.

With your all core static OC, start an R23 run, reset the clock button in HWinfo and see if effective clocks is the same as the reported clock (within the usual margin of error)

Ryzen change power states really, really fast - a lot faster than old intels did, C-states may have helped back in the day combined with the HPET bug on skylake+ systems, but it's never been an issue on ryzen.

Reports of Ryzen 3000 High Idle Voltage Exaggerated, a Case of the "Observer Effect" | TechPowerUp

The info is really hard to find but some older CPU's reported as slowly as 200ms, while ryzen can be 1ms to 15ms depending on your windows power plan

Zen 3 doesnt need the power plan and still does the 1ms polling, but that means the CPU can sleep and wake those cores so damn fast that light tasks simply dont need a core awake long enough to even register in most measuring apps

trparky · Jan 20, 2023

Mussels said:
Zen 3 doesnt need the power plan and still does the 1ms polling

And I'm assuming that applies to Zen 4 as well.

Space Lynx · Jan 20, 2023

Mussels said:
View attachment 279976

Important to note if you're at idle or load when this happens, use the reset button to be sure

At idle, it's saying "you're at X clock speed but sleeping most of it, so it's really only active this much"
At load if you're showing 4.7GHz but effective 4.0, you're throttling for one reason or another (PBO, heat, etc)

I've never, ever had to disable C-states on any working machine - it can be a workaround for instability on certain extreme overclocks (like an offset voltage thats fine at load but not at idle) but it tends to have consequences elsewhere, awake cores use power so you cant boost as high, etc.

With your all core static OC, start an R23 run, reset the clock button in HWinfo and see if effective clocks is the same as the reported clock (within the usual margin of error)

Ryzen change power states really, really fast - a lot faster than old intels did, C-states may have helped back in the day combined with the HPET bug on skylake+ systems, but it's never been an issue on ryzen.

Reports of Ryzen 3000 High Idle Voltage Exaggerated, a Case of the "Observer Effect" | TechPowerUp

The info is really hard to find but some older CPU's reported as slowly as 200ms, while ryzen can be 1ms to 15ms depending on your windows power plan
View attachment 279981

Zen 3 doesnt need the power plan and still does the 1ms polling, but that means the CPU can sleep and wake those cores so damn fast that light tasks simply dont need a core awake long enough to even register in most measuring apps

effective clock always shows 4700 for all 12 when i run cinebnech etc, but I think in gaming it doesn't. so I guess a game just says oh I don't need so much here... but I wish it did, cause it would probably give me more fps. temps aren't an issue.

oh well, I guess I just need to give up on the overclocking world. too many things have changed since the 2500k days

also, I can't find ryzen balanced power plan anywhere, and I have win 11 and latest AMD chipset installed.

freeagent · Jan 20, 2023

Space Lynx said:
too many things have changed since the 2500k days

That’s when overclocking was at its absolute simplest :fear:

Space Lynx · Jan 20, 2023

freeagent said:
That’s when overclocking was at its absolute simplest

where do I find ryzen balanced power plan? I am not seeing it

tabascosauz · Jan 20, 2023

Space Lynx said:
where do I find ryzen balanced power plan? I am not seeing it

View attachment 280063

Zen3 does not need or get power plans from the drivers

3x0 said:
Here's my result with 3600 b-die with tight timings, 5600x vs 5800x3d
View attachment 279896
View attachment 279895

If you haven't clean installed after your CPU upgrade you may find you score better after doing so, I was also stuck in the 59s after drop-in upgrade from 5900X

Or go to safe mode to see if there is a difference

freeagent · Jan 20, 2023

Yup I don’t use power plans, nor do I install the AMD chipset drivers, I just use what WU gives me :cool:

trparky · Jan 21, 2023

tabascosauz said:
Zen3 does not need or get power plans from the drivers

And I'm assuming Zen 4 as well, right?

The funny thing is, I'm running this new system of mine bone stock except for enabling EXPO mode for the memory and this system is just stupid fast. No OCing needed, not even PBO. It's bat out of hell fast.

Mussels · Jan 21, 2023

Space Lynx said:
cause it would probably give me more fps.

Not how that works
It's saying the CPU Was ready to work and had nothing to do

If you want to know the CPU's limits, you lower all graphics settings to low and run 720p

That'll show you whats going on.
50% CPU Usage on your CPU says all the real cores are in use and the SMT isn't helpful, for example - or it could be out of cache, or the DRAM isnt feeding the GPU Fast enough, etc etc
(Or, the game itself isnt optimised for high FPS. I can get 5x the FPS in DRG that i can get in wonderlands)

Space Lynx said:
where do I find ryzen balanced power plan? I am not seeing it

Zen 3 and 4 dont need it, that information just came out from the zen2 era about how fast the AMD CPU's poll and change rates

trparky said:
And I'm assuming Zen 4 as well, right?

The funny thing is, I'm running this new system of mine bone stock except for enabling EXPO mode for the memory and this system is just stupid fast. No OCing needed, not even PBO. It's bat out of hell fast.

Helped build a 7700 system yesty/this morning and it's the same. Other than the over-tightened CPU cooler confusion, it's been extremely fast - getting the 7700 prevented any heat and cooling issues, and EXPO was a simple on button

Not the fastest RAM, but i wanted something that would 100% work out of the box, with the option for a second kit if the client needed it for their rendering work (It's animation stuf, and the softwares requirements were cryptic at best)

Edit: Oh god the story here
She only had a mac with a broken shift key and screen to use for this
And we couldnt create a windows ISO - it cant be done on macs any more

I had to teach someone over facebook messenger 4 hours away from me, how to make a liveboot linux mint on mac with etcher, then boot mint on the AM5 system, use UUPDump to get an updated 11 ISO and ventoy to make a bootabl.... all her other USB sticks died. Well fuck. She tilted the PC to do something and stood it on the back, crushing the USB sticks on the front ports. learned that lesson.
Right so install mint to the 2TB NVME, then use Gparted to format the 4GB mint USB and ventoy to.... oh for fucks sake, the ISO is too big.

Back to UUPdump to get a compressed NON updated 11, which then fit on the ventoy OS, to then boot ventoy to boot 11 to format the NVME again and install 11

Finally all up and running except the 4090, she's running the IGP and doing things like "work" before that fire hazard goes in.
Remote tech support is fun, remote cable management with compressesed blurry video from an iphone?

trparky · Jan 21, 2023

Mussels said:
Other than the over-tightened CPU cooler confusion

Never had that issue, the cooler I bought specially said that it was made for AM5 so maybe that was why. I kept screwing it down until it didn't move any more. Maybe I could've tightened it a little more but I was conservative in that.

Mussels · Jan 21, 2023

trparky said:
Never had that issue, the cooler I bought specially said that it was made for AM5 so maybe that was why. I kept screwing it down until it didn't move any more. Maybe I could've tightened it a little more but I was conservative in that.

First time user who's never done more than plug in an iphone before
Her dad was extremely pro-apple, and now she's a free woman she's gone straight for the RGB master race motherlode

This was her response to using linux mint in a liveboot USB 2.0 vs her mac, with formatting drives, file copies etc
The USB Drive in question wrote at about 5MB/s at best anway, and she was using the generic drivers for display, audio etc

Every single task that was blocked on the mac or hard to do, was instant on mint - and even the concept of copy-pasting a command from google into a terminal window to install a program became something she now misses from windows

trparky · Jan 21, 2023

Mussels said:
First time user who's never done more than plug in an iphone before

I may like my iPhone but when it comes to my actual computers, nope... I won't use a Mac. No way in hell. I've thought about it but really, I can't give up the idea of building my own system.

As for operating systems, I’m still fully in the Windows camp. I’m too entrenched in it.

Mussels · Jan 21, 2023

trparky said:
I may like my iPhone but when it comes to my actual computers, nope... I won't use a Mac. No way in hell. I've thought about it but really, I can't give up the idea of building my own system.

As for operating systems, I’m still fully in the Windows camp. I’m too entrenched in it.

Go fire up mint as a live boot USB and see what she means tho, for an OS with nothing installed an incredible about of things "just work"

For doing data recovery or malware removal on someone elses hardware, it's an incredible tool to have on-hand
(And 30 seconds to google "paragon NTFS" and have full NTFS support)

Processor	AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Motherboard	MSI MPG B550I Gaming Edge Wi-Fi ITX
Cooling	Scythe Fuma 2 rev. B Noctua NF-A12x25 Edition
Memory	2x16GiB G.Skill TridentZ DDR4 3200Mb/s CL14 F4-3200C14D-32GTZKW
Video Card(s)	PowerColor Radeon RX7800 XT Hellhound 16GiB Noctua NF-A12x25 Edition
Storage	Western Digital Black SN850 WDS100T1X0E-00AFY0 1TiB, Western Digital Blue 3D WDS200T2B0A 2TiB
Display(s)	Dell G2724D 27" IPS 1440P 165Hz, ASUS VG259QM 25” IPS 1080P 240Hz
Case	Cooler Master NR200P ITX
Audio Device(s)	Altec Lansing 220, HyperX Cloud II
Power Supply	Corsair SF750 Platinum 750W SFX
Mouse	Endgame Gear OP1 8K
Keyboard	HyperX Alloy Origins Aqua

System Name	Step_Sis Rodeo
Processor	AMD R9 9900X @ PBO
Motherboard	Asus Strix X670E -F
Cooling	Thermalright FW PRO 360, 3x TL-H12-X28-S, 3x TL-P12-S
Memory	2x 16GB Lexar Ares @ 6400 30-36-36-68 1.55v
Video Card(s)	Zotac 4070 Ti Trinity OC @ 3045/1500
Storage	WD SN850 1TB, SN850X 2TB, 3x SN770 1TB
Display(s)	LG 50UP7100
Case	Asus ProArt PA602
Audio Device(s)	JBL Bar 700
Power Supply	Seasonic Vertex GX-1000, Monster HDP1800
Mouse	Logitech G502 Hero
Keyboard	Logitech G213
VR HMD	Oculus 3
Software	Yes
Benchmark Scores	Yes

System Name	AMDWeapon
Processor	Ryzen 7 7800X3D -20 CO
Motherboard	X670E MSI Tomahawk WiFi
Cooling	Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 ARGB with Silverstone Air Blazer 2200rpm fans
Memory	G-Skill Trident Z Neo RGB 6000 CL30 32GB@EXPO
Video Card(s)	Powercolor 9070XT Red Devil
Storage	Samsung 870 QVO 1TB x 2, Lexar 256 GB, TeamGroup MP44L 2TB, Crucial T700 1TB, Seagate Firecuda 2TB
Display(s)	32" MSi MPG 240hz 1440p 1500R + 43" Toshiba 4K TV
Case	Montech 903 MAX AIR
Audio Device(s)	SteelSeries Arctis Nova Pro Wireless + Wicked Cushions Gel earpads
Power Supply	MSI MPG AGF 850 watt gold
Mouse	SteelSeries AeroX 5 l Forza Pad Gamesir T7 l Power A OPS V3 for FPS (paddles)
Keyboard	SteelSeries Apex 9 TKL
VR HMD	-
Software	Windows 11 Pro 24H2
Benchmark Scores	Enough for me

System Name	Hellbox 5.1(same case new guts)
Processor	Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Motherboard	MSI X570S MAG Torpedo Max
Cooling	TT Kandalf L.C.S.(Water/Air)EK Velocity CPU Block/Noctua EK Quantum DDC Pump/Res
Memory	2x16GB Gskill Trident Neo Z 3600 CL16
Video Card(s)	Powercolor Hellhound 7900XTX
Storage	970 Evo Plus 500GB 2xSamsung 850 Evo 500GB RAID 0 1TB WD Blue Corsair MP600 Core 2TB
Display(s)	Alienware QD-OLED 34” 3440x1440 144hz 10Bit VESA HDR 400
Case	TT Kandalf L.C.S.
Audio Device(s)	Soundblaster ZX/Logitech Z906 5.1
Power Supply	Seasonic TX~1000 Platinum
Mouse	G502 Hero
Keyboard	G19s
VR HMD	Oculus Quest 3
Software	Win 11 Pro x64

System Name	RiseZEN Gaming PC
Processor	AMD Ryzen 7 5800X @ Auto
Motherboard	Asus ROG Strix X570-E Gaming ATX Motherboard
Cooling	Corsair H115i Elite Capellix AIO, 280mm Radiator, Dual RGB 140mm ML Series PWM Fans
Memory	G.Skill TridentZ 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4 3200
Video Card(s)	ASUS DUAL RX 6700 XT DUAL-RX6700XT-12G
Storage	Corsair MP510 480GB M.2 - 2 x WD_BLACK 1TB SN850X M.2 1TB - Lexar NQ790 M.2 2TB
Display(s)	ASUS ROG Strix 34” XG349C 144Hz 1440p + Asus ROG 27" MG278Q 144Hz WQHD 1440p
Case	Corsair Obsidian Series 450D Gaming Case
Audio Device(s)	SteelSeries 5Hv2 w/ Sound Blaster Z SE
Power Supply	Corsair RM750x Power Supply
Mouse	Razer Death-Adder + Viper 8K HZ Ambidextrous Gaming Mouse - Ergonomic Left Hand Edition
Keyboard	Logitech G910 Orion Spectrum RGB Gaming Keyboard
Software	Windows 10 Pro - 64-Bit Edition (Back to Win 10 because 11 is garbage)
Benchmark Scores	I'm the Doctor, Doctor Who. The Definition of Gaming is PC Gaming...

System Name	Veral
Processor	7800x3D
Motherboard	x670e Asus Crosshair Hero
Cooling	Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 EVO
Memory	2x32 Neo Forza
Video Card(s)	Powercolor 7900XTX Red Devil
Storage	Crucial P5 Plus 1TB, Samsung 980 1TB, Teamgroup MP34 4TB
Display(s)	Acer Nitro XZ342CK Pbmiiphx, 2x AOC 2425W, AOC I1601FWUX
Case	Fractal Design Meshify Lite 2
Audio Device(s)	Blue Yeti + SteelSeries Arctis 5 / Samsung HW-T550
Power Supply	Corsair HX850
Mouse	Corsair Harpoon
Keyboard	Corsair K55
VR HMD	HP Reverb G2
Software	Windows 11 Professional
Benchmark Scores	PEBCAK

System Name	Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor	Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard	Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling	Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory	2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s)	Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage	2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s)	Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) \| Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) \| Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case	Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s)	Logitech G560 \| Corsair Void pro RGB \|Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply	Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse	Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard	Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD	Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software	Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores	Nyooom.

Processor	7800X3D -25 all core
Motherboard	B650 Steel Legend
Cooling	RZ620 (White/Silver)
Memory	32gb ddr5 (2x16) cl 30 6000
Video Card(s)	Merc 310 7900 XT @3200 core -.75v
Display(s)	Agon QHD 27" QD-OLED Glossy 240hz
Case	NZXT H710 (Black/Red)
Power Supply	Corsair RM850x

System Name	My Ryzen 7 7700X Super Computer
Processor	AMD Ryzen 7 7700X
Motherboard	Gigabyte B650 Aorus Elite AX
Cooling	DeepCool AK620 with Arctic Silver 5
Memory	2x16GB G.Skill Trident Z5 NEO DDR5 EXPO (CL30)
Video Card(s)	XFX AMD Radeon RX 7900 GRE
Storage	Samsung 980 EVO 1 TB NVMe SSD (System Drive), Samsung 970 EVO 500 GB NVMe SSD (Game Drive)
Display(s)	Acer Nitro XV272U (DisplayPort) and Acer Nitro XV270U (DisplayPort)
Case	Lian Li LANCOOL II MESH C
Audio Device(s)	On-Board Sound / Sony WH-XB910N Bluetooth Headphones
Power Supply	MSI A850GF
Mouse	Logitech M705
Keyboard	Steelseries
Software	Windows 11 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores	https://valid.x86.fr/liwjs3

System Name	ab┃ob
Processor	7800X3D┃5800X3D
Motherboard	B650E PG-ITX┃X570 Impact
Cooling	NH-U12A + T30┃AXP120-x67
Memory	64GB 6400CL32┃32GB 3600CL14
Video Card(s)	RTX 4070 Ti Eagle┃RTX A2000
Storage	8TB of SSDs┃1TB SN550
Case	Caselabs S3┃Lazer3D HT5

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