Ryzen Owners Zen Garden

[3x0]

Yeah those are pretty tight I mean seeing as I can’t OC my RAM I suppose I could see how tight I can get them

The thing is, 5800x3D should have 3-4ns slower latency compared to 5600x on the same timings. I would guess some background service is causing the added latency.

 

[freeagent]

The best I saw with my X3D was like 56.2, so don't feel too bad. I had to run my sticks fairly hard to do it. Best I saw with my 5600X was 49-50ns running my sticks pretty hard.

 

[Blaeza]

What's a "normal" score for a 5700X on R23?

Mine is doing this...

Have I put this in the wrong place?

 

[INSTG8R]

The best I saw with my X3D was like 56.2, so don't feel too bad. I had to run my sticks fairly hard to do it. Best I saw with my 5600X was 49-50ns running my sticks pretty hard.

Same

The thing is, 5800x3D should have 3-4ns slower latency compared to 5600x on the same timings. I would guess some background service is causing the added latency.

Well I was OCing my RAM on the 5600X so I’d expect be results

 

[Super XP]

I saw significant gains at 4k
Remember that a big part of it's advantage is that it doesnt care about low latency ram any more, so running 32GB+ of slower ram becomes a non issue


Helped a person remotely build an AM5 system over facebook the last few days, was "fun" at times
View attachment 279860

Key thing came up here here: over tightening the AM5 cooler resulted in slow boots, DRAM light, VGA light etc with an after market AM4/AM5 universal cooler
Any time you hear of people with AM5 issues, remind them to loosen the damn cooler! universal ones can go tighter on AM5 than they need to, and cause some weird issues

Hmm interesting. How about Socket AM4?

What's a "normal" score for a 5700X on R23?

Mine is doing this...
View attachment 279917

That 5700X has a higher score than my 5800X. Think I'm in the range of around 13600 to 14000. Hmm

 

[Blaeza]

Hmm interesting. How about Socket AM4?


That 5700X has a higher score than my 5800X. Think I'm in the range of around 13600 to 14000. Hmm

OOOOkay... Now I'm confused. I'm sure PBO and all that is turned off, but whilst I was running the R23 test, my CPU wattage was in the 150's!

 

[Toothless]

4x16GB dual ranks. My x570 Hero can't do this but the Mag Ace can. Guess I'm switching boards at some point but I'm really, really lazy to.

 

[INSTG8R]

What's a "normal" score for a 5700X on R23?

Mine is doing this...
View attachment 279917

Have I put this in the wrong place?

My R23 score for reference obviously I'm lower clocked. I think you're where you should be-

 

[Blaeza]

My R23 score for reference obviously I'm lower clocked. I think you're where you should be-

View attachment 279939

What is going on with my CPU then? It shouldn't be as fast as this. 5800X3D clocks to 4.5, am I right?

Edit. A little trip to the bios shows me having PBO on "Advanced". I'm a tit, sorry people!

 

[Mussels]

I was under the impression that games really don't use more than 6 cores anywa

RIght now they dont, but they will soon enough

I had this discussion with a very angry intel fanboy about intels 6+HT + E core setup and got called a paid AMD shill
We already see limits on quad core CPU's where HT cant make up the lack of cores, 6 to 8 will do the same - and E-cores wont help any more than HT/SMT cores

Interesting. I wonder if am4 suffers that or if noctua coolers can??

I believe it's a risk for any cooler that is not specifically designed for AM5, it's possible to overtighten CPU coolers on almost any platform - it causes that 'hardware reserved' memory issue on several intel sockets for example, it's just an overall issue with the LGA platform vs PGA - uneven tightening see-saws the CPU over, and one side of the CPU has poor contact
Coolers with four screws would be less likely to have an issue, but anyone could still do it wrong by doing one corner all the way first, then the others (And this person was a literal first time PC builder)

Here's my result with 3600 b-die with tight timings, 5600x vs 5800x3d
View attachment 279896
View attachment 279895

I remember breaking under 60ns with extreme effort, anything in the background at all changed the scores so much

I'll see how the x3D does at this now i'm on 100% stable settings
Zero effort run just quit everything - but shows how the x3D doesnt care for major differences in the RAM (CL14 to CL18) - and mine are loose nasty timings for sure

Interesting that it doesnt show the amount of DRAM or the ranks - 2x32 DR obviously aint as easy as 2x8SR but you'd think it'd be relevant to the aida folks

 

[Space Lynx]

Can someone explain to me effective clocks? So, my 4.7 all core Ryzen 5600 non-x cpu isn't really getting 4.7 all core is it? it only jumps to 4.7 when i run benches, but not in games...

so that means I am not getting the benefit of 4.7 all core in traditional overclocking terms... so there is really no point and I should just leave CPU at stock?

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

A complicated mess revolving around C-states. Long story short - parts of the CPU turn off to save power. This is super dynamic and in your screenshot, it is happening multiple times across a single polling interval. Using Core 4 Thread 0 as an example: the core is running at the full 4700 MHz, but the part of it that is T0 was turned off 99.9% of the time. If you really want effective 4.7 GHz static OC, disable C-states. Then wonder why it pulls so much power

Bear in mind that your latency as the core ramps up is practically non-existent stock, let alone with a Static OC and c-states enabled. I doubt that disabling them will help (if it has AVX offset it will hurt, I can't remember if it does). Honestly, I would think that your static OC may actually be hurting you for gaming as the ST boost might not be as high as a dynamic OC.

 

[Mussels]

View attachment 279976

Can someone explain to me effective clocks? So, my 4.7 all core Ryzen 5600 non-x cpu isn't really getting 4.7 all core is it? it only jumps to 4.7 when i run benches, but not in games...

so that means I am not getting the benefit of 4.7 all core in traditional overclocking terms... so there is really no point and I should just leave CPU at stock?

View attachment 279979

Important to note if you're at idle or load when this happens, use the reset button to be sure

At idle, it's saying "you're at X clock speed but sleeping most of it, so it's really only active this much"
At load if you're showing 4.7GHz but effective 4.0, you're throttling for one reason or another (PBO, heat, etc)


I've never, ever had to disable C-states on any working machine - it can be a workaround for instability on certain extreme overclocks (like an offset voltage thats fine at load but not at idle) but it tends to have consequences elsewhere, awake cores use power so you cant boost as high, etc.


With your all core static OC, start an R23 run, reset the clock button in HWinfo and see if effective clocks is the same as the reported clock (within the usual margin of error)


Ryzen change power states really, really fast - a lot faster than old intels did, C-states may have helped back in the day combined with the HPET bug on skylake+ systems, but it's never been an issue on ryzen.

Reports of Ryzen 3000 High Idle Voltage Exaggerated, a Case of the "Observer Effect" | TechPowerUp

The info is really hard to find but some older CPU's reported as slowly as 200ms, while ryzen can be 1ms to 15ms depending on your windows power plan

Zen 3 doesnt need the power plan and still does the 1ms polling, but that means the CPU can sleep and wake those cores so damn fast that light tasks simply dont need a core awake long enough to even register in most measuring apps

 

[trparky]

Zen 3 doesnt need the power plan and still does the 1ms polling

And I'm assuming that applies to Zen 4 as well.

 

[Space Lynx]

View attachment 279976

Important to note if you're at idle or load when this happens, use the reset button to be sure

At idle, it's saying "you're at X clock speed but sleeping most of it, so it's really only active this much"
At load if you're showing 4.7GHz but effective 4.0, you're throttling for one reason or another (PBO, heat, etc)


I've never, ever had to disable C-states on any working machine - it can be a workaround for instability on certain extreme overclocks (like an offset voltage thats fine at load but not at idle) but it tends to have consequences elsewhere, awake cores use power so you cant boost as high, etc.


With your all core static OC, start an R23 run, reset the clock button in HWinfo and see if effective clocks is the same as the reported clock (within the usual margin of error)


Ryzen change power states really, really fast - a lot faster than old intels did, C-states may have helped back in the day combined with the HPET bug on skylake+ systems, but it's never been an issue on ryzen.

Reports of Ryzen 3000 High Idle Voltage Exaggerated, a Case of the "Observer Effect" | TechPowerUp

The info is really hard to find but some older CPU's reported as slowly as 200ms, while ryzen can be 1ms to 15ms depending on your windows power plan
View attachment 279981


Zen 3 doesnt need the power plan and still does the 1ms polling, but that means the CPU can sleep and wake those cores so damn fast that light tasks simply dont need a core awake long enough to even register in most measuring apps

effective clock always shows 4700 for all 12 when i run cinebnech etc, but I think in gaming it doesn't. so I guess a game just says oh I don't need so much here... but I wish it did, cause it would probably give me more fps. temps aren't an issue.

oh well, I guess I just need to give up on the overclocking world. too many things have changed since the 2500k days

also, I can't find ryzen balanced power plan anywhere, and I have win 11 and latest AMD chipset installed.

 

[freeagent]

too many things have changed since the 2500k days

That’s when overclocking was at its absolute simplest

 

[Space Lynx]

That’s when overclocking was at its absolute simplest

where do I find ryzen balanced power plan? I am not seeing it

 

[tabascosauz]

where do I find ryzen balanced power plan? I am not seeing it

View attachment 280063

Zen3 does not need or get power plans from the drivers

Here's my result with 3600 b-die with tight timings, 5600x vs 5800x3d
View attachment 279896
View attachment 279895

If you haven't clean installed after your CPU upgrade you may find you score better after doing so, I was also stuck in the 59s after drop-in upgrade from 5900X

Or go to safe mode to see if there is a difference

 

[freeagent]

Yup I don’t use power plans, nor do I install the AMD chipset drivers, I just use what WU gives me

 

[trparky]

Zen3 does not need or get power plans from the drivers

And I'm assuming Zen 4 as well, right?

The funny thing is, I'm running this new system of mine bone stock except for enabling EXPO mode for the memory and this system is just stupid fast. No OCing needed, not even PBO. It's bat out of hell fast.

 

[Mussels]

cause it would probably give me more fps.

Not how that works
It's saying the CPU Was ready to work and had nothing to do

If you want to know the CPU's limits, you lower all graphics settings to low and run 720p

That'll show you whats going on.
50% CPU Usage on your CPU says all the real cores are in use and the SMT isn't helpful, for example - or it could be out of cache, or the DRAM isnt feeding the GPU Fast enough, etc etc
(Or, the game itself isnt optimised for high FPS. I can get 5x the FPS in DRG that i can get in wonderlands)

where do I find ryzen balanced power plan? I am not seeing it

Zen 3 and 4 dont need it, that information just came out from the zen2 era about how fast the AMD CPU's poll and change rates

And I'm assuming Zen 4 as well, right?

The funny thing is, I'm running this new system of mine bone stock except for enabling EXPO mode for the memory and this system is just stupid fast. No OCing needed, not even PBO. It's bat out of hell fast.

Helped build a 7700 system yesty/this morning and it's the same. Other than the over-tightened CPU cooler confusion, it's been extremely fast - getting the 7700 prevented any heat and cooling issues, and EXPO was a simple on button

Not the fastest RAM, but i wanted something that would 100% work out of the box, with the option for a second kit if the client needed it for their rendering work (It's animation stuf, and the softwares requirements were cryptic at best)

Edit: Oh god the story here
She only had a mac with a broken shift key and screen to use for this
And we couldnt create a windows ISO - it cant be done on macs any more


I had to teach someone over facebook messenger 4 hours away from me, how to make a liveboot linux mint on mac with etcher, then boot mint on the AM5 system, use UUPDump to get an updated 11 ISO and ventoy to make a bootabl.... all her other USB sticks died. Well fuck. She tilted the PC to do something and stood it on the back, crushing the USB sticks on the front ports. learned that lesson.
Right so install mint to the 2TB NVME, then use Gparted to format the 4GB mint USB and ventoy to.... oh for fucks sake, the ISO is too big.

Back to UUPdump to get a compressed NON updated 11, which then fit on the ventoy OS, to then boot ventoy to boot 11 to format the NVME again and install 11


Finally all up and running except the 4090, she's running the IGP and doing things like "work" before that fire hazard goes in.
Remote tech support is fun, remote cable management with compressesed blurry video from an iphone?

 

[trparky]

Other than the over-tightened CPU cooler confusion

Never had that issue, the cooler I bought specially said that it was made for AM5 so maybe that was why. I kept screwing it down until it didn't move any more. Maybe I could've tightened it a little more but I was conservative in that.

 

[Mussels]

Never had that issue, the cooler I bought specially said that it was made for AM5 so maybe that was why. I kept screwing it down until it didn't move any more. Maybe I could've tightened it a little more but I was conservative in that.

First time user who's never done more than plug in an iphone before
Her dad was extremely pro-apple, and now she's a free woman she's gone straight for the RGB master race motherlode


This was her response to using linux mint in a liveboot USB 2.0 vs her mac, with formatting drives, file copies etc
The USB Drive in question wrote at about 5MB/s at best anway, and she was using the generic drivers for display, audio etc

Every single task that was blocked on the mac or hard to do, was instant on mint - and even the concept of copy-pasting a command from google into a terminal window to install a program became something she now misses from windows

 

[trparky]

First time user who's never done more than plug in an iphone before

I may like my iPhone but when it comes to my actual computers, nope... I won't use a Mac. No way in hell. I've thought about it but really, I can't give up the idea of building my own system.

As for operating systems, I’m still fully in the Windows camp. I’m too entrenched in it.

 

[Mussels]

I may like my iPhone but when it comes to my actual computers, nope... I won't use a Mac. No way in hell. I've thought about it but really, I can't give up the idea of building my own system.

As for operating systems, I’m still fully in the Windows camp. I’m too entrenched in it.

Go fire up mint as a live boot USB and see what she means tho, for an OS with nothing installed an incredible about of things "just work"

For doing data recovery or malware removal on someone elses hardware, it's an incredible tool to have on-hand
(And 30 seconds to google "paragon NTFS" and have full NTFS support)