Upgrade to 5600X or 5800X3D - gaming purpose 1440P/144HZ

[SL2]

The logic is that the min fps will be much higher (meaning even on mid range gpus the performance will be smoother) and also there isn't likely going to be a better gaming cpu on Am4 which means it elimnates fomo only the OP can decide what that's worth.

I'd think so as well, but I haven't seen any review looking into this.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I'd think so as well, but I haven't seen any review looking into this.

I mean you sorta have to take 1080p data and see what min fps are on a 5600X vs a 5800X3D

Something like this



You'd be turning down settings at 1440p with a 6800XT that the OP plans on getting but the 5800X3D can maintain over 144fps in these 12 games at all times the 5600X cannot.

Now if the OP can get a 5600X/5600 and the money saved can go into a much better gpu then I would probably still do that but if his goal is the not dip below 144hz in the majority of games with slightly reduced settings I would go with the 5800X3D.

These things are never and easy decision but sometimes its nice knowing you just have the best cpu for gaming period on AM4 again how much that is worth only the OP can answer.

 

[dgianstefani]

I mean you sorta have to take 1080p data and see what min fps are on a 5600X vs a 5800X3D

Something like this

View attachment 264630

You'd be turning down settings at 1440p with a 6800XT that the OP plans on getting but the 5800X3D can maintain over 144fps in these 12 games at all times the 5600X cannot.

Now if the OP can get a 5600X/5600 and the money saved can go into a much better gpu then I would probably still do that but if his goal is the not dip below 144hz in the majority of games with slightly reduced settings I would go with the 5800X3D.

These things are never and easy decision but sometimes its nice knowing you just have the best cpu for gaming period on AM4 again how much that is worth only the OP can answer.

I find it hard to believe that the 7600x has better 1% lows than a chip with 100MB of L3.

Just my 2c.

12900k too, the averages are great it's true, but there's something wrong with the data, or the 5800X3D isn't tuned properly/with good RAM/cooling, the 1% lows are where the X3D shines, not in averages. In TPU testing and in my own experience, the X3D and 12900k are neck and neck.

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D Review - The Magic of 3D V-Cache

The AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D is the company's new flagship gaming processor. It introduces 3D V-Cache, a dedicated piece of silicon with additional L3 capacity. In our review, we're testing how much the larger cache can help intensive gaming workloads and applications and compare it to the Intel Core...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I find it hard to believe that the 7600x has better 1% lows than a chip with 100MB of L3.

Just my 2c.

Probably going to depend on game selection but the 7700X/7600X seem generally better in newer games.

Some games seem to scale poorly while others the 5800X3D is beating the 12900k soundly. The 7000 series cpu at least the 7600X/7700X seem to be more consistent at least with DDR5 6000 CL30 memory.

Techspot seems to still recommend the 5800X3D over Ryzen 7000 at this point regardless.

 

[dgianstefani]

Probably going to depend on game selection but the 7700X seems generally better with the 7600X

Some games seem to scale poorly while others the 5800X3D is beating the 12900k soundly. The 7000 series cpu at least the 7600X/7700X seem to be more consistent at least with DDR5 6000 CL30 memory.

To run DDR5 6000 CL30 memory you need a $600 motherboard. The kit itself will be $300 plus, and there's really no guarantee your system will be stable at those settings or even boot, AGESA is a mess. Voltages will be much higher on VDIMM to push that, and for that $900 you could get one/two tiers up GPU, a 5800X3D, and a good B550/X570 motherboard with decent B die RAM, for the same budget as a 76/7700x 6000/30 platform..

Lets see the 7600x review with cheapo normal DDR5, or anything that isn't a halo product, and I think I can guess the results.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

To run DDR5 6000 CL30 memory you need a $600 motherboard. The kit itself will be $300 plus, and there's really no guarantee your system will be stable at those settings or even boot, AGESA is a mess. Voltages will be much higher on VDIMM to push that, and for that $900 you could get one/two tiers up GPU, a 5800X3D, and a good B550/X570 motherboard with decent B die RAM, for the same budget as a 76/7700x 6000/30 platform..

I agree ryzen 7000 is a bad value. Anyone sticking with ddr4 that has a high end gpu should go with a 5800X3D.

For gaming specifically I think it's better than going with Alderlake or Raptorlake (even assuming it's 10% faster with ddr5 6000+) as well those cpus don't seem to perform well against it with DDR4 either although I haven't been paying attention to how they scale with a high end Bdie kit.

After seeing decent AM5 motherboard prices I've been tempted to swap my 5950X for a 5800X3D as well.

 

[jormungand]

rx 6800xt is -+= a rtx 3080 , and i have a rtx 3080 12gb with a 5600x, 3440x1440 144/165oc hz
bottleneck in those bad optimized games like BFV/BF2042 - AC Odyssey
CP2077 is cpu intensive in many areas
def go 5800x3d, im waiting on amazon sales to grab one.
good luck

 

[Deleted member 223428]

To run DDR5 6000 CL30 memory you need a $600 motherboard. The kit itself will be $300 plus, and there's really no guarantee your system will be stable at those settings or even boot, AGESA is a mess. Voltages will be much higher on VDIMM to push that, and for that $900 you could get one/two tiers up GPU, a 5800X3D, and a good B550/X570 motherboard with decent B die RAM, for the same budget as a 76/7700x 6000/30 platform..

Lets see the 7600x review with cheapo normal DDR5, or anything that isn't a halo product, and I think I can guess the results.

Maybe I was lucky, but I bought the lowest price X670 ($270 with a combo discount) and a set of G.Skill EXPO 6000 CL30 ($255) and it's been 100% stable. Other than the long post I'm not sure what is 'a mess' with the release AGESA. Maybe don't spread FUD?

As for the money comparison to the 5800x3d set up, I'm not sure where you're saving money vs a 7700x setup. $420 for the CPU, $230 for am entry x570s board, and $260 for 32GB of 3600 CL14. Plus, you can upgrade later to a 7800x3d.

If you have an AM4 board now, the 5800x3d is a no-brainer - see the other system in my specs. If you don't, might as well go AM5.

 

[dgianstefani]

Maybe I was lucky, but I bought the lowest price X670 ($270 with a combo discount) and a set of G.Skill EXPO 6000 CL30 ($255) and it's been 100% stable. Other than the long post I'm not sure what is 'a mess' with the release AGESA. Maybe don't spread FUD?

As for the money comparison to the 5800x3d set up, I'm not sure where you're saving money vs a 7700x setup. $420 for the CPU, $230 for am entry x570s board, and $260 for 32GB of 3600 CL14. Plus, you can upgrade later to a 7800x3d.

If you have an AM4 board now, the 5800x3d is a no-brainer - see the other system in my specs. If you don't, might as well go AM5.

Not what the reviewers experienced or what hundreds of reddit threads, overclockers and enthusiast forums are reporting. It's not FUD, it's history repeating itself. AM4 AGESAs took around 12 to 18 months after CPU generations release to get to 100% stability, with all the features advertised by AMD, with some updates adding new things but breaking others. Even now there are issues. If you want to take advantage of DDR5 currently, you have to choose between expensive, lower capacity and "tight" timing kits (that may not work), or cheap, low capacity and loose timings, or expensive high capacity and loose timing kits. Whereas I can buy a 32GB kit of Hynix 3200/16 ram that will happily do 3800/18 all day for less than $100.

Suggesting that a 5800X3D needs either a $200+ motherboard or $200+ ram is also a stretch. You can get the same performance with a $150 B550 board and a $150 kit of reasonable ram. The whole point of a huge cache is that super fast low latency B die is no longer needed for memory starved Ryzen to be fast in games, due to the latency penalties Ryzen has being pretty much removed. 55ns B die instead of 65ns hynix ram doesn't really matter when you have a large cache running at 10ns.

 

[Deleted member 223428]

Not what the reviewers experienced or what hundreds of reddit threads, overclockers and enthusiast forums are reporting. It's not FUD, it's history repeating itself. AM4 AGESAs took around 12 to 18 months after CPU generations release to get to 100% stability, with all the features advertised by AMD, with some updates adding new things but breaking others. Even now there are issues. If you want to take advantage of DDR5 currently, you have to choose between expensive, lower capacity and "tight" timing kits (that may not work), or cheap, low capacity and loose timings, or expensive high capacity and loose timing kits. Whereas I can buy a 32GB kit of Hynix 3200/16 ram that will happily do 3800/18 all day for less than $100.

Suggesting that a 5800X3D needs either a $200+ motherboard or $200+ ram is also a stretch. You can get the same performance with a $150 B550 board and a $150 kit of reasonable ram. The whole point of a huge cache is that super fast low latency B die is no longer needed for memory starved Ryzen to be fast in games, due to the latency penalties Ryzen has being pretty much removed. 55ns B die instead of 65ns hynix ram doesn't really matter when you have a large cache running at 10ns.

Got it. I'm the only person on the planet who AM5 works for.

Internet forums are great. People who've never touched a product repeating what they've read somewhere (and taken as fact) telling the person who has the product in their hands they don't know what they're talking about.

 

[dgianstefani]

Got it. I'm the only person on the planet who AM5 works for.

Internet forums are great. People who've never touched a product repeating what they've read somewhere (and taken as fact) telling the person who has the product in their hands they don't know what they're talking about.

Your sample of one sure is representative.

 

[Deleted member 223428]

Your sample of one sure is representative.

It's more representative than you repeating what you've read.

 

[dgianstefani]

It's more representative than you repeating what you've read.

Is it what I've read though?

 

[tabascosauz]

Let's not argue about this, guys. I've not seen anything conclusive specifically about AM5 having solid or sus AGESA (only some passing unsubstantiated remarks about DDR5 issues from some OCers). Raphael is not part of what the OP's asking anyway.

 

[Mussels]

You can look at TPU's new test of the 5800x vs 5800x3D with a 4090
RTX 4090 & 53 Games: Ryzen 7 5800X vs Ryzen 7 5800X3D Review | TechPowerUp

The x3D does really, really well for itself, 5600x and 5800x are extremely close in gaming performance since the clock speeds differ so little

 

[Hyderz]

5800X3D for sure and that will last you a good 3-4 years before needing to upgrade!

 

[Provin915]

Bringing back life in this thread. I'd like to thank everyone for their advice and help! It's been a couple of month's since I asked some advice and prices have gone down quite significantly.

I'll be getting a 5800X3D for €300, which is a great price point. Not sure yet about the cooler. Might go for the Noctua NH-D15 or save a bit more and get a fancy NZXT Z53 cooler.

I've got a better budget for GPU upgrade now as well. I can get a 6900XT for around €850, but I can get a 7900XT for €900. Logically, I would go for the newer generation card, but I'm a bit afraid of power usage. I'm currently on a 750W PSU (Corsair RMx). Should I get atleast a 850W PSU? I prefer a Corsair again, because I have some custom cablemod lying around.

edit: I don't care about Ray Tracing and I'm currently on a 5700XT so any upgrade will be huge.

 

[dgianstefani]

Bringing back life in this thread. I'd like to thank everyone for their advice and help! It's been a couple of month's since I asked some advice and prices have gone down quite significantly.

I'll be getting a 5800X3D for €300, which is a great price point. Not sure yet about the cooler. Might go for the Noctua NH-D15 or save a bit more and get a fancy NZXT Z53 cooler.

I've got a better budget for GPU upgrade now as well. I can get a 6900XT for around €850, but I can get a 7900XT for €900. Logically, I would go for the newer generation card, but I'm a bit afraid of power usage. I'm currently on a 750W PSU (Corsair RMx). Should I get atleast a 850W PSU? I prefer a Corsair again, because I have some custom cablemod lying around.

edit: I don't care about Ray Tracing and I'm currently on a 5700XT so any upgrade will be huge.

If you're worried about power usage don't go for an RDNA3 over a Ada Lovelace card, they're a lot less efficient. If RDNA3 would require a 850 W PSU, which is debatable, but you can see our minimum recommended PSUs on our GPU review pages, then replacing the GPU and PSU would cost more than an equivalent Ada Lovelace card like the 4070 Ti, which is more efficient.

D15/5800X3D is a great choice, the X3D doesn't need or really tangibly benefit from better cooling, since it's basically never going to use more than 95 W, and mostly be using less than 50 W. The issue is heat transfer through the bottleneck of the IHS and cache.

 

[dirtyferret]

5800X3D because it has better performance, not because it has more cores. Why do people in this day and age still post that crap when they are proven wrong 100% EVERY DAMN TIME


Speaking of gaming performance, you're no doubt going to hear nonsense such as "the Ryzen 5 5600X is a poor choice for gamers as it only has 6 cores," and they'll probably try and prove that by pointing to the new consoles which feature eight Zen 2 cores.Some people also like to confuse how games and cores work. Making statements like games will require 8 cores or something to that effect. Games don't require a certain number of cores, they never have and they never will. Games require a certain level of CPU performance, it's really that simple.

It's like listening to people say put on a scarf or you will catch a cold

 

[Assimilator]

Bringing back life in this thread. I'd like to thank everyone for their advice and help! It's been a couple of month's since I asked some advice and prices have gone down quite significantly.

I'll be getting a 5800X3D for €300, which is a great price point. Not sure yet about the cooler. Might go for the Noctua NH-D15 or save a bit more and get a fancy NZXT Z53 cooler.

I've got a better budget for GPU upgrade now as well. I can get a 6900XT for around €850, but I can get a 7900XT for €900. Logically, I would go for the newer generation card, but I'm a bit afraid of power usage. I'm currently on a 750W PSU (Corsair RMx). Should I get atleast a 850W PSU? I prefer a Corsair again, because I have some custom cablemod lying around.

edit: I don't care about Ray Tracing and I'm currently on a 5700XT so any upgrade will be huge.

Wait until you've got the 5800X3D installed. Only consider upgrading the GPU if you still have performance problems at that stage.

 

[Provin915]

If you're worried about power usage don't go for an RDNA3 over a Ada Lovelace card, they're a lot less efficient. If RDNA3 would require a 850 W PSU, which is debatable, but you can see our minimum recommended PSUs on our GPU review pages, then replacing the GPU and PSU would cost more than an equivalent Ada Lovelace card like the 4070 Ti, which is more efficient.

D15/5800X3D is a great choice, the X3D doesn't need or really tangibly benefit from better cooling, since it's basically never going to use more than 95 W, and mostly be using less than 50 W. The issue is heat transfer through the bottleneck of the IHS and cache.

Thanks for the input. I'll do a bit more research on 7000 series cards. For now, I'll go with the D15/5800X3d combo, thanks for the confirmation!

5800X3D because it has better performance, not because it has more cores. Why do people in this day and age still post that crap when they are proven wrong 100% EVERY DAMN TIME


Speaking of gaming performance, you're no doubt going to hear nonsense such as "the Ryzen 5 5600X is a poor choice for gamers as it only has 6 cores," and they'll probably try and prove that by pointing to the new consoles which feature eight Zen 2 cores.Some people also like to confuse how games and cores work. Making statements like games will require 8 cores or something to that effect. Games don't require a certain number of cores, they never have and they never will. Games require a certain level of CPU performance, it's really that simple.

It's like listening to people say put on a scarf or you will catch a cold

I understand what you're saying, but I've read/seen numerous feedback on Reddit claiming the 5800X3D does help improve the 1% FPS, so the low drops which sounds fantastic because that's where I have the issues in Warzone for example.

On the other hand, budget-wise, a 5600X (with stock cooler) seems great too at the price of €180. Subsequently, I can omit an aftermarket cooler which saves me another €100 so in total €220 saved which I could potentially spend on a better GPU. Usually, I'm not an indecisive person but this dilemma is really tricking me. \

I've got a budget of €1500:

I was thinking about atleast a 6900XT = ~€900
5800X3D = ~€300
Noctua D15 = ~€100

Last but not least I was going to replace my NZXT H510 for H5 Flow for better airflow because the old one is garbage.

Wait until you've got the 5800X3D installed. Only consider upgrading the GPU if you still have performance problems at that stage.

I'll keep that in mind, thanks for the advice!

 

[dirtyferret]

I understand what you're saying, but I've read/seen numerous feedback on Reddit claiming the 5800X3D does help improve the 1% FPS, so the low drops which sounds fantastic because that's where I have the issues in Warzone for example.

No, your not understanding. Of course the 5800X3D helps improve FPS (both lows and avg) in games, I said the "5800X3D because it has better performance" but not because it has more cores otherwise the Ryzen 5900x would kicks its ass with 50% more cores. It doesn't, the 5900x is barely better than the 5600x at gaming. The 5800X3D is better thanks to its large L3 cache.

At some point you may have heard someone say that for gaming you need X amount of cores. Typical examples include "6 is more than enough cores," or "you need a minimum of 8 cores for gaming," due to some misguided notion that consoles have 8 cores and therefore that's what PC gamers will require moving forward.We've addressed these "core" misconceptions before, explaining that overall CPU performance is all that matters, rather than how many cores a CPU has. And while that should be a fairly easy concept to understand, there's a surprising amount of pushback.

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

No, your not understanding. Of course the 5800X3D helps improve FPS (both lows and avg) in games, I said the "5800X3D because it has better performance" but not because it has more cores otherwise the Ryzen 5900x would kicks its ass with 50% more cores. It doesn't, the 5900x is barely better than the 5600x at gaming. The 5800X3D is better thanks to its large L3 cache.

At some point you may have heard someone say that for gaming you need X amount of cores. Typical examples include "6 is more than enough cores," or "you need a minimum of 8 cores for gaming," due to some misguided notion that consoles have 8 cores and therefore that's what PC gamers will require moving forward.We've addressed these "core" misconceptions before, explaining that overall CPU performance is all that matters, rather than how many cores a CPU has. And while that should be a fairly easy concept to understand, there's a surprising amount of pushback.

TechSpot's information is very interesting, but it does NOT tell the whole story. Every game is different. Find the benchmarks of the games you play most and use them as a guide.

Yes, the overall performance is what games want - but each game takes a different metric as overall performance. Let's compare two Zen 2 CPUs - the 3300X (4 Cores) and the 3960X (24 Cores). In BF5, the 3960X takes the win at 210 FPS vs the 3300X's 158 FPS. Therefore, the 3960X is better, right?

Spoiler: Benchmark Results, BF5

I looked at the CL14 Tuned result as it matches the memory config used for the 3300X closest. The 3960X is of course quad-channel.

Not necessarily. This is because BF5 CAN make use of more cores than the measly 4 of the 3300X. Looking at Metro Exodus, the 3300X gets its own back with a solid 146 FPS, hardy comparable to the 95 FPS of the 3960X.

Spoiler: Benchmark Results, ME

Again, I looked at the CL14 Tuned result, which matches the memory config used for the 3300X closest, even though the 3960X is quad-channel.

Yes, cores don't necessarily help. In the OP's case? They certainly can. If BF2042 is coded similarly to BF5, the extra cores will benefit. Also, PoE can use up to 16 threads, so there will almost definitely be a benefit there.

The real benefit of the X3D is that lovely lovely L3.

Spoiler: Behold the benefit

 

[Provin915]

No, your not understanding. Of course the 5800X3D helps improve FPS (both lows and avg) in games, I said the "5800X3D because it has better performance" but not because it has more cores otherwise the Ryzen 5900x would kicks its ass with 50% more cores. It doesn't, the 5900x is barely better than the 5600x at gaming. The 5800X3D is better thanks to its large L3 cache.

At some point you may have heard someone say that for gaming you need X amount of cores. Typical examples include "6 is more than enough cores," or "you need a minimum of 8 cores for gaming," due to some misguided notion that consoles have 8 cores and therefore that's what PC gamers will require moving forward.We've addressed these "core" misconceptions before, explaining that overall CPU performance is all that matters, rather than how many cores a CPU has. And while that should be a fairly easy concept to understand, there's a surprising amount of pushback.

I see, my bad I misunderstood. It's indeed one of the best performing CPUs for gaming and the price dropped nicely so it's a no brainer to pick this up since I'm still on AM4 socket. Thanks!

 

[dirtyferret]

but it does NOT tell the whole story. Every game is different.

The article does not dispute cherry picked games but rather for a whole gaming suite. If all you do is play one game than obviously get the best parts for that one game.

Let's compare two Zen 2 CPUs - the 3300X (4 Cores) and the 3960X (24 Cores). In BF5, the 3960X takes the win at 210 FPS vs the 3300X's 158 FPS. Therefore, the 3960X is better, right?

Not sure if those games were tested under the same settings, techspost also tests BF5 and had almost identical performance for both CPUs. There is no built in benchmark to the game so I assume they are playing it.

Techspots does not allow their graphs to post anymore but using an RTX2080ti they got 160FPS/106FPS for the 3960x in avg/lows for BF5 and 152FPS/105FPS for the 3300x

The real benefit of the X3D is that lovely lovely L3.

which is what I stated