AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D

[THU31]

I don't know for how long AMD can keep releasing gaming CPUs that they are so far behind in any other tasks.
I love my 5800X3D but I would sacrifice a bit of its gaming performance for 2/4, lets say, additional cores/threads.

It's probably the worst cpu of the lineup, the 7900X3D, on nearly every aspect but for me it would be the perfect cpu.
I think AMD should shift the 7900X3D level to x800 naming level.

That's what the 7900 is for. Even the 7900X is cheaper currently. It sacrifices some gaming performance in favor of productivity.

Can you tell me what tasks you're performing where that productivity performance is relevant? Do you have a deadline for those tasks, or does it affect your availability of resources and time for other tasks like gaming? Do you actually benefit from your productivity tasks completing 50% faster?

People always mention productivity when it comes to benchmarks, but they never actually say how that affects them. Personally I just don't see how productivity performance is relevant in a home environment. I do some video editing and encoding, and I couldn't care less if it takes 8 hours or 6 hours, I can do that in the background while doing basically anything but gaming (or even during that, if the game isn't demanding).

The 7800X3D is supposed to offer the highest gaming performance. That's the only thing that matters. And 99% of gamers don't need that CPU. I certainly don't, playing at 4K60. But it does exactly what it's meant to be doing.

Some people bought the 13900K just for gaming. 16 E-cores which will never ever do anything, but they still bought it because it's the fastest Intel processor. That's who the 7800X3D is for, just for gamers who want the absolute best without wasting money on useless transistors.

 

[gffermari]

Intel offers good MT performance even in the x600 tier.
You/I don't have to buy x700 or x900 to get that.

Although I mostly game on my desktop (and that's how the 5800X3D is justified), there were a couple of times that I needed to render or process something.
(ex. photogrammetry)
Yes it's not critical job that has a deadline (although it is a part of my main job) but it takes ages to finish while I can't do anything at the same time.

 

[THU31]

Intel offers good MT performance even in the x600 tier.
You/I don't have to buy x700 or x900 to get that.

Yes, they do. Do you know why? Because they don't have the fastest gaming performance. They lost the crown when Zen 3 came out. AMD has better IPC now, and they have up to 16 cores. Intel had to introduce E-cores to compete, but they're still behind when it comes to gaming performance. And that's ignoring efficiency.

This is exactly how AMD used to compete when they had worse IPC, basically since the release of Core 2 Duo. Zen 1 and 2 were slower in gaming than Intel, but they had more cores at similar price points. Now it's the opposite.

But the question is not who has better MT performance, but whether that's relevant. And I say it's not, in anything but the top end models. If you really need MT performance, you want the best.

I expect AMD will offer a hybrid architecture pretty soon. They already have slower Zen 4c cores for servers. So you can expect this behavior with Zen 5, I guess. And I'm not happy about it, because it means Ryzen 5 will have 6 full Zen 5 cores and additional slower cores. Personally I see zero benefit in that, just like with Core i5, which for me is a 6C/12T processor, with about 1/3 of the transistors being completely useless.

 

[Klemc]

I backflashed my B650E-E with 1406 BIOS update from today, CPU will come tomorrow, neat.

BIOS 1406
2023/04/07
"1. Update AGESA version to ComboAM5PI 1.0.0.6
2. Please make sure to update to BIOS 1406 for better compatibility with the Ryzen™ 7000X3D series processor.
3. TPM 2.0 security update

I'm blessed, now new Asus's Chipset driver 5.03 one day before i got my CPU
I miss just Nvidia new WHQL to be out just in time.

 

[unwind-protect]

Can you tell me what tasks you're performing where that productivity performance is relevant? Do you have a deadline for those tasks, or does it affect your availability of resources and time for other tasks like gaming? Do you actually benefit from your productivity tasks completing 50% faster?

People always mention productivity when it comes to benchmarks, but they never actually say how that affects them. Personally I just don't see how productivity performance is relevant in a home environment. I do some video editing and encoding, and I couldn't care less if it takes 8 hours or 6 hours, I can do that in the background while doing basically anything but gaming (or even during that, if the game isn't demanding).

One thing is compiling software, especially if you are into Open Source software. Compiling the Linux kernel or FreeBSD's `make world` use every core and run significant time until you can proceed with the next step with the then-compiled software. Myself I have to re-compile Chrome on a regular basis, now that's a pig.

A lot of people play with machine learning these days and not all of it can be laid onto GPUs.

 

[Klemc]

Having the XMP C-32 version of my RAM, EXPO version too in QVL but is C-36, do 7800X3D will do as well with the XMP ?

https://www.kingston.com/datasheets/KF560C

32RSK2-32.pdf

https://www.kingston.com/datasheets/KF560C

36BBEK2-32.pdf

I asked in my own topic but here is better.

 

[Cowboystrekk]

I think you should look at the individual benchmark scores side by side from the simulated review and the actual review.

You will see that it must be an issue of some kind. Your stated average is not really relevant. In most cases, the 7950X3D with one CCD disabled produces a lower framerate than stock or when set to prefer cache. Lower than the 7800X3D as well.
But in those games where disabling the second CCD produces a higher framerate, the 7800X3D is also slower than simulated.

Maybe it's clock speeds? We don't actually know what the clock speeds are in individual games. This is what I hate about the whole "boost" thing. I never liked it. In the past every CPU had a fixed frequency and all comparisons were clear. But now you never know.
That's why I still set all my components to a fixed frequency. I don't trust automation, I don't trust schedulers, I always want to be certain what my hardware is doing.

If you set the 7950X3D with one CCD disabled and the 7800X3D to a fixed 4.8 GHz, in theory they should perform the same. I would actually like to see that comparison.

In theory the higher clockspeed of ccd1 disabled should give it an edge, but guess it is dur yo several factors.

 

[BoboOOZ]

I mean that the competition provides a very good balance between gaming and MT performance at all levels.
While AMD provides a competitive combination only when you get a 7900X3D and a 7950X3D.
The 7800X3D may be the king in gaming but I don't think its successor can do the same and get favourable reviews.

We have accepted that the x600 level of Intel CPUs perform better or way better in apps than the x800 of AMDs.
There was a time where the Intels x600 were battling the AMDs x600...

It's good to be the gaming and efficiency King but you have to be close at more aspects than that. Not performing better but close enough.

I think that Zen4 is by far the generation on which there is the most choice for performance/price for different types of applications. You have non-X SKUs, X SKUs and 3DVcache SKUs.
I would say that if you have trouble finding a SKU that has the right balance of performance for you, you are either way too nitpicky, or you have a problem of too many choices.

 

[gffermari]

I agree that Zen 4 have many choices and that's why I wrote that the worst and weirdest CPU in this lineup, the 7900X3D, is the best for me.

If 7800X3D was closer to 13600K, lets say 21-22K, it would be perfectly balanced. Now I feel that something's missing, although its purpose for the best gaming performance if fulfilled.

 

[BoboOOZ]

I agree that Zen 4 have many choices and that's why I wrote that the worst and weirdest CPU in this lineup, the 7900X3D, is the best for me.

The only issue I have with the 7900X3D is, if you want to keep it for a few years, is what happens if you play games that use more than 6 cores, there's a risk there of a significant performance drop. Otherwise, due to its mixed reviews, I think it will be the easiest to find at a good price in the future...

EDIT: And, BTW, I think there's the same potential problem with Intel's 13600. FWIW as a gamer, the 7800x3D is a much better option for long-term peace of mind.

 

[MarsM4N]

I don't know for how long AMD can keep releasing gaming CPUs that they are so far behind in any other tasks.
I love my 5800X3D but I would sacrifice a bit of its gaming performance for 2/4, lets say, additional cores/threads.

It's probably the worst cpu of the lineup, the 7900X3D, on nearly every aspect but for me it would be the perfect cpu.
I think AMD should shift the 7900X3D level to x800 naming level.

Compared to what? 10-16 cores that need 2-3 times more power to archieve such results than the 7800X3D?

A typical gamer doesn't care if their gamer CPU needs a bit longer to render a video. They want high FPS & low temps at a good price. Exept for the price, it's there. If you're a professional who does "professional stuff" on a daily basis, then there are other options. Geez, it's like Ferrari owners complaining about the bad offroad performance. ^^

We have accepted that the x600 level of Intel CPUs perform better or way better in apps than the x800 of AMDs.
There was a time where the Intels x600 were battling the AMDs x600...

It's good to be the gaming and efficiency King but you have to be close at more aspects than that. Not performing better but close enough.

You might re-read the review of the 7800X3D again. Esp. the part 3D Vertical Cache Technology. The 3D cache is slapped directly on the CPU die. The 3D cache is also more temperature sensitive, which is the reason they had to lower the maximum temperature on the dies with 3D cache. So it's most likely just physically impossible to pump in Intel level volts to archieve Intel level benchmark results in productive tasks. On the other side, if you would undevolt/underclock the Intel chips I am sure the performance difference in productive apps would be tiny. I guess Intel's advantage is only that they can better get rid of the massive heat produced thank's to the bigger 10nm die (which will most likely be the reason they're sticking to it).

If you want to compare CPU performance do it by performance/watt, not by core vs. core. Even there the 7950X beats the 13900K in loads of productive apps, and at a lower power consumption. Their architectures are very different, so it's not a apples to apples thing.

P.S.: no "Ryzen 7800X3D Owners Club" thread yet? Would love to see some user benches with better RAM.

 

[Godrilla]

Compared to what? 10-16 cores that need 2-3 times more power to archieve such results than the 7800X3D?

A typical gamer doesn't care if their gamer CPU needs a bit longer to render a video. They want high FPS & low temps at a good price. Exept for the price, it's there. If you're a professional who does "professional stuff" on a daily basis, then there are other options. Geez, it's like Ferrari owners complaining about the bad offroad performance. ^^



You might re-read the review of the 7800X3D again. Esp. the part 3D Vertical Cache Technology. The 3D cache is slapped directly on the CPU die. The 3D cache is also more temperature sensitive, which is the reason they had to lower the maximum temperature on the dies with 3D cache. So it's most likely just physically impossible to pump in Intel level volts to archieve Intel level benchmark results in productive tasks. On the other side, if you would undevolt/underclock the Intel chips I am sure the performance difference in productive apps would be tiny. I guess Intel's advantage is only that they can better get rid of the massive heat produced thank's to the bigger 10nm die (which will most likely be the reason they're sticking to it).

If you want to compare CPU performance do it by performance/watt, not by core vs. core. Even there the 7950X beats the 13900K in loads of productive apps, and at a lower power consumption. Their architectures are very different, so it's not a apples to apples thing.

P.S.: no "Ryzen 7800X3D Owners Club" thread yet? Would love to see some user benches with better RAM.

I know Steve from Hardware Unboxed had something with the 7950X3D and memory scaling. We can extrapolate his findings and probably expect similar results.

AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D Memory Scaling Benchmark

Pairing fast RAM with a top-end CPU is a logical choice, but what happens when that processor is a Ryzen 9 7950X3D with 128 MB of cache?...

www.techspot.com

 

[TTPPUU]

Got a software question ..
AMD 3D V-Cache Performance Optimizer & AMD PPM Provisioning File - these are installed with the AMD chipset driver package, right ?

If I just did a fresh Windows 11 install on a brand new 7800X3D system - do I need to install these at all ?

Are they intended for all 7000 X3D CPUs or only for 7900X3D and 7950X3D ?
If the 7800X3D doesnt need them to work properly, Id rather not even install them.

 

[unwind-protect]

Got a software question ..
AMD 3D V-Cache Performance Optimizer & AMD PPM Provisioning File - these are installed with the AMD chipset driver package, right ?

If I just did a fresh Windows 11 install on a brand new 7800X3D system - do I need to install these at all ?

Are they intended for all 7000 X3D CPUs or only for 7900X3D and 7950X3D ?
If the 7800X3D doesnt need them to work properly, Id rather not even install them.

They aren't telling us anything useful about this driver, so who knows?

 

[Godrilla]

FYI both Bestbuy and Microcenter restocked the 7800X3D. Do not buy at scalped prices. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/amd-ry...3SVp-OYvUqojvgwbEdYaAmJuEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[RuinerCZ]

Hello, I have noticed there are dramatic differences for R5 7600 (and R7 7700 to some extent) in Virtualbox benchmark between this review and review of the 7600: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-5-7600-non-x/14.html

7600 is much slower here (compared to the 7600 review), while 13600K is much faster here (compared to the 7600 review).

How could that be? Completely different test scenario?

 

[Kapone33]

Got a software question ..
AMD 3D V-Cache Performance Optimizer & AMD PPM Provisioning File - these are installed with the AMD chipset driver package, right ?

If I just did a fresh Windows 11 install on a brand new 7800X3D system - do I need to install these at all ?

Are they intended for all 7000 X3D CPUs or only for 7900X3D and 7950X3D ?
If the 7800X3D doesnt need them to work properly, Id rather not even install them.

I just did a fresh install of Windows 11 on a Customer PC. The newest version of Wnndows did not allow me to install properly the GPU Driver. I had to use DDU and then get the AMD Software tool that installed all of the Drivers necessary. If I were you I would do the exact same thing as I had about 7 programs to install and the GPU driver worked properly too. Those files you mentioned are probably refinements that they have made since launch that they can apply to all chips (including yours).

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

I just did a fresh install of Windows 11 on a Customer PC. The newest version of Wnndows did not allow me to install properly the GPU Driver. I had to use DDU and then get the AMD Software tool that installed all of the Drivers necessary. If I were you I would do the exact same thing as I had about 7 programs to install and the GPU driver worked properly too. Those files you mentioned are probably refinements that they have made since launch that they can apply to all chips (including yours).

I think you just needed to update the windows 11, given a update or two it would have installed the GPU driver after downloading it.

I don't know per say about the V-Cache optimisations driver on a 7800X3D but I would say it says optimiser.

If it doesn't Know what to do correctly when it see's a single CCD chip like the 7800X3D, then truly there's some people at AMD that need drop kicking figuratively and actually IMHO to the Kirb.

It could have optimisations that benefit, it shouldn't reduce performance.

But I don't Know I'm on a older generation.

 

[Dragam1337]

I think you just needed to update the windows 11, given a update or two it would have installed the GPU driver after downloading it.

I don't know per say about the V-Cache optimisations driver on a 7800X3D but I would say it says optimiser.

If it doesn't Know what to do correctly when it see's a single CCD chip like the 7800X3D, then truly there's some people at AMD that need drop kicking figuratively and actually IMHO to the Kirb.

It could have optimisations that benefit, it shouldn't reduce performance.

But I don't Know I'm on a older generation.

I am having exactly this issue... new amd platform (no prior amd cpu) and installed the PPM driver (didn't know that i wasn't supposed to) and am having massive issues due to it.

Half the threads not loading properly, which they should in cyberpunk. Tried all the tips and tricks i can find on how to solve it, but looks like i will have to reinstall windows... again -_-

@W1zzard When you did a fresh windows install for the 7800x3d, did you install the PPM driver ?

 

[W1zzard]

When you did a fresh windows install for the 7800x3d, did you install the PPM driver ?

Yes, it showed 8 or 9 entries, and I installed all of them

 

[Dragam1337]

Yes, it showed 8 or 9 entries, and I installed all of them

It's so wierd, cause i'm getting the exact same bug as you did, except this is a fresh windows install with no prior amd cpu.

 

[Godrilla]

FYI 7950X3D is already being discounted at Amazon by $27 with applied coupon at checkout

AMD Ryzen™ 9 7950X3D 16-Core, 32-Thread Desktop Processor https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BTRH9MNS?ref_=cm_sw_r_apan_dp_ZEBCH2PRQREXGZ14MJ9Q

also there is plenty 7800X3D in stock as well at MSRP.

 

[msoltyspl]

I am having exactly this issue... new amd platform (no prior amd cpu) and installed the PPM driver (didn't know that i wasn't supposed to) and am having massive issues due to it.

Half the threads not loading properly, which they should in cyberpunk. Tried all the tips and tricks i can find on how to solve it, but looks like i will have to reinstall windows... again -_-

@W1zzard When you did a fresh windows install for the 7800x3d, did you install the PPM driver ?

There was a mention that CP2077 is unable to use the threads properly on 7800x3d (or simulated on 7950x3d with ccd1 disabled), the QRT is gone though:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1643964444152659971

- never played that game so IDK.

As for PPM driver, it has regexes in its config that will not let the provisioning specific to core parking install. But if for some reason it did ... you can clean the stuff it does with four reg.exe calls as I mentioned at the bottom HERE. After reboot it should be fine. (I guinea pigged myself on 3900x with custom driver, I'll do that again whenever my 7800x3d finally arrive).

 

[Dragam1337]

There was a mention that CP2077 is unable to use the threads properly on 7800x3d (or simulated on 7950x3d with ccd1 disabled), the QRT is gone though:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1643964444152659971

- never played that game so IDK.

As for PPM driver, it has regexes in its config that will not let the provisioning specific to core parking install. But if for some reason it did ... you can clean the stuff it does with four reg.exe calls as I mentioned at the bottom HERE. After reboot it should be fine. (I guinea pigged myself on 3900x with custom driver, I'll do that again whenever my 7800x3d finally arrive).

Reinstalled windows again again, and this time i simply didn't install the PPM driver, and it appears to be fine.

Is the any reason why one would need to install the PPM driver at all on a single ccx cpu though ?

 

[msoltyspl]

Reinstalled windows again again, and this time i simply didn't install the PPM driver, and it appears to be fine.

Is the any reason why one would need to install the PPM driver at all on a single ccx cpu though ?

Well - formally - according to what that "driver" targets - it has few other sets of settings targeting zen4 desktops, for example one of those is:

        <Target Id="ProcessorTypeAmdNonMobileOrSlateRPL">
          <TargetState>
            <Condition Name="ProcessorVendor" Value="pattern:(^AuthenticAMD$)" />
            <Condition Name="ProcessorType" Value="pattern:(.*Family 25 Model (96|97).*)" />
            <Condition Name="PowerPlatformRole" Value="pattern:[^(2|8)]" />
          </TargetState>
        </Target>

This one provisions MinPerformance and PerfEnergyPreference and in theory should install on anything matching family/model (including but not limited to: 7900/7950 - 3d and not 3d variants, 7800x3d and 7700x).

Looking at other stuff I see there is something that also matched my 3900x as well in one of the targets, but I don't remember even being offered to install that package.

As for core parking, the conditions responsible for it are:

        <Target Id="ProcessorTypeAmdNonMobileOrSlateRPLX2CCD">
          <TargetState>
            <Condition Name="ProcessorVendor" Value="pattern:(^AuthenticAMD$)" />
            <Condition Name="ProcessorType" Value="pattern:(.*Family 25 Model (96|97).*)" />
            <Condition Name="PowerPlatformRole" Value="pattern:[^(2|8)]" />
            <Condition Name="ProcessorName" Value="pattern:(^AMD Ryzen 9 .*X3D.*)" />
          </TargetState>
        </Target>

This one provisions dreaded core parking (CPMinCores 50%, CPConcurrency 67%) for gamemode/sustained profiles underneath balanced scheme and two of its overlays. It should NOT add those if it's not 7900x3d or 7950x3d (ProcessorName constraint above).