NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Founders Edition

[sepheronx]

Good card. Terrible price. If it was like $600 CAD, then it would sell well. But I do believe this card will be about shy north of $1000 here. I'll see.

 

[Max(IT)]

You can choose to believe what you will.

I know what I see on my side.

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You are not seeing spikes with software monitoring. Go read some IgorLab testing, if you don’t trust @W1zzard …



Also typical gaming is almost the same on both reviews



Every single RTX 4070 related thread literally is infested by AMD supporters desperately trying to defend their beloved brand.
reality check, this is where Radeon user base is:



Yes, you are right, it’s right in the bottom of the list. With all its glorious 16 GB VRAM.

This is happening in many tech websites (here, Videocardz, Guru3D, fortunately on Tom’sHw is a little bit better). AMD user base is very vocal about defending their products. It really reminds me about Apple’s.
Maybe that’s the reason why AMD isn’t really improving , quality wise.

 

[Scircura]

Also depends on who is testing what. Just look a Linus's review. In his review the 2.5 years old (!) AMD 6800XT is totally smoking the 4070 in pure rasterization. 1080p = 14% faster, 1440p = 9% faster, 4K = 10% faster! And not to forget the 7900XT for just 170€ more, running circles around the 4700, even in "ray traced glory".

LTT numbers are weird. He only benches a few games, so the average performance difference is skewed by F1 22 numbers where, at 1080p for example, 4070 scores 183fps and 6800XT scores 253fps. But W1zzard reports a more plausible 242.6 and 268.5 for that game and resolution, and he tests way more games so outliers don't affect the overall results so much. So I have more trust in W1zzard's relative performance graph, which says 4070 and 6800XT are within 1% of each other at every resolution.

 

[R0H1T]

You are not seeing spikes with software monitoring. Go read some IgorLab testing, if you don’t trust @W1zzard …

View attachment 291323

Every single RTX 4070 related thread literally is infested by AMD supporters desperately trying to defend their beloved brand.
reality check, this is where Radeon user base is:

View attachment 291322

Yes, you are right, it’s right in the bottom of the list. With all its glorious 16 GB VRAM.

This is happening in many tech websites (here, Videocardz, Guru3D, fortunately on Tom’sHw is a little bit better). AMD user base is very vocal about defending their products. It really remind me about Apple’s.
Maybe that’s the reason why AMD isn’t really improving , quality wise.

Says reality check & cites "STEAM" survey, the irony

 

[Max(IT)]

He's suggesting that the 4070 is a terrible value in his country due to it being twice as expensive as the 6800XT, not sure why that's overly hard to understand.

It’s been debated again and again… Radeon’s prices are low for one single reason: low demand.
Sure, they are “good value”, because no one is looking for them.
And we are speaking about 2 years old cards vs a product launched literally yesterday. It’s unreasonable to expect a price discount over that.

4070 and 6800XT aren’t even part of the same class of products, if you think about the segmentation: 4070 rival should be the yet unreleased 7700XT (or 7800XT, since AMD messed up with name scheme once again… 7900XT should have been 7800XT, but you know, Nvidia put a 9 in the name and AMD can’t be worse )

Says reality check & cites "STEAM" survey, the irony

Yes, because no one is using Steam as a gaming platform, right ?

 

[oxrufiioxo]

It’s been debated again and again… Radeon’s prices are low for one single reason: low demand.
Sure, they are “good value”, because no one is looking for them.
And we are speaking about 2 years old cards vs a product launched literally yesterday. It’s unreasonable to expect a price discount over that.

4070 and 6800XT aren’t even part of the same class of products, if you think about the segmentation: 4070 rival should be the yet unreleased 7700XT (or 7800XT, since AMD messed up with name scheme once again)

I don't disagree, but personally I wouldn't spend nearly 4080 money on a 4070 either.... Although even at 600 usd it's questionable at best.

 

[Max(IT)]

I don't disagree, but personally I wouldn't spend nearly 4080 money on a 4070 either.... Although even at 600 usd it's questionable at best.

Absolutely agree with you.
Prices are way above what it should be, especially for Nvidia.
But I don’t consider a 2 years old product from AMD as a viable alternative just because it’s cheap.

 

[W1zzard]

You can choose to believe what you will.

I know what I see on my side.

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This is GPU CHIP only power, not whole board. Chip = the green thing in the middle of your card.

@nguyen: The number does not include memory

"GPU" means chip, not "card" .. that's why software writers prefixed the sensor label with "GPU", yet people still think "GPU" means "card"

 

[Meanhx]

Performance increases:
580->670 +14%
680->770 +5%
780->970 +21%
980->1070 +29%
1080->2070 +16%
2080->3070 +26%
3080->4070 +1%
3080->4070ti +17%

Now please tell me, is the 4070 or the 4070ti the "real" 4070?
The 4070 is a good GPU, just priced and named wrong.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Performance increases:
580->670 +14%
680->770 +5%
780->970 +21%
980->1070 +29%
1080->2070 +16%
2080->3070 +26%
3080->4070 +1%
3080->4070ti +17%

Now please tell me, is the 4070 or the 4070ti the "real" 4070?
The 4070 is a good GPU, just priced and named wrong.

Neither, the real 4070 would be a notch above the 4070 Ti.

The market is so bad that NVIDIA managed to make this look like a good product. Pity.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Performance increases:
580->670 +14%
680->770 +5%
780->970 +21%
980->1070 +29%
1080->2070 +16%
2080->3070 +26%
3080->4070 +1%
3080->4070ti +17%

Now please tell me, is the 4070 or the 4070ti the "real" 4070?
The 4070 is a good GPU, just priced and named wrong.

Also I don't really count the 770 becuase it was just a rebranded 680 and there was no 680 ti.... Also other than intel every silicon maker was having really a hard time making 20nm work so Nvidia was stuck on 28nm technically for 3 generations 600/700/900 even then their was less stagnation with the 70 tier products comically.

 

[Bwaze]

If we look at 1440p results:

RTX 3080 is 27% faster than RTX 3070, and it was 40% more expensive ($500 - $700)

RTX 4080 is 46% faster than RTX 4070 and is 100% more expensive ($600 - $1200)!

Nvidia has completely "reshuffled" ranges and prices of cards.

 

[Icon Charlie]

...Nope.... A very hard pass. This could have been one hell of a card but the greed in NGREEDIA gimped to 192 bit. If it was rated at 256 bit with the additional memory added to it then I would have purchased it in a heartbeat because it would be worth the $600 price range and have better results. as it stands now? forget it. This is planned obsolescence on Ngreedia's part.

They did the same thing to the 1050TI a solid GPU they gimped it to 128 Bit.

Again as stated before this puts the 6800 @ around $450 new a serious purchase opportunity. On the average of 14 to 16% less performance @ 25% less cost over the 4070 the RX 6800 is a Solid buy.

The RX 6800XT is also something to look at as well.

And the RX 6950 is superior to the RX 4070.

Again as stated before there is a reason why I believe there will be no real lower end AMD cards. Because they knew that the last generations video cards would fulfill the role for current mid to lower tier video cards.

What's going to be the 4060TI or 4060??? More gimping with increase price range?

No. I'm not having this nor will I be part of nonsense. Just save your money if you can.

 

[Bwaze]

Also, in the lower end the reasoning that Nvidia has faster raytracing becomes kind of moot - does anyone really game with raytracing in lower end?

It's one thing to upscale to 1440p or 4K, but to use upscaling to 1080p you're really starting to see huge problems.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

If we look at 1440p results:

RTX 3080 is 27% faster than RTX 3070, and it was 40% more expensive ($500 - $700)

RTX 4080 is 46% faster than RTX 4070 and is 100% more expensive ($600 - $1200)!

Nvidia has completely "reshuffled" ranges and prices of cards.

I know this isn't the case but it almost feels like Nvidia wants to pretend the 3070/3080 didn't exist and that the pandemic never ended....

I've said this before I'm not going to sit here and say they are making any more money on this vs the 3070 for all we know by using the meh af samsung 10nm rebranded as 8nm they could have been making more money on each 3070 sold nobody unless they work for TSMC and have a buddy working as an engineer on the pcb making side could say for sure but if this is the best they can do for $600 while making a worthwhile profit that's just sad....

 

[Dr. Dro]

If we look at 1440p results:

RTX 3080 is 27% faster than RTX 3070, and it was 40% more expensive ($500 - $700)

RTX 4080 is 46% faster than RTX 4070 and is 100% more expensive ($600 - $1200)!

Nvidia has completely "reshuffled" ranges and prices of cards.

This card was never meant to be more than a vanilla 4060 if you go by architecture's maximum potential.

...Nope.... A very hard pass. This could have been one hell of a card but the greed in NGREEDIA gimped to 192 bit. If it was rated at 256 bit with the additional memory added to it then I would have purchased it in a heartbeat because it would be worth the $600 price range and have better results. as it stands now? forget it. This is planned obsolescence on Ngreedia's part.

They did the same thing to the 1050TI a solid GPU they gimped it to 128 Bit.

Again as stated before this puts the 6800 @ around $450 new a serious purchase opportunity. On the average of 14 to 16% less performance @ 25% less cost over the 4070 the RX 6800 is a Solid buy.

The RX 6800XT is also something to look at as well.

And the RX 6950 is superior to the RX 4070.

Again as stated before there is a reason why I believe there will be no real lower end AMD cards. Because they knew that the last generations video cards would fulfill the role for current mid to lower tier video cards.

What's going to be the 4060TI or 4060??? More gimping with increase price range?

No. I'm not having this nor will I be part of nonsense. Just save your money if you can.

I must disagree, the GTX 1050 Ti was never meant to, nor did it ever pretend to be anything more than what it is: a low-budget, cheap graphics card for low-end gaming PCs. Following that absurd logic, let's bring up the RX 6500 XT instead of one of NVIDIA's few genuinely honest products.

Now, biased ranting aside, there is absolutely no foundation in reality for any of the claims that you've made - There is no Navi 21 SKU that's a better deal than this, and I must confess I find it absolutely hilarious how AMD loyalists are quick to point out that an super-halo, power-guzzling card that barely beats (except that it doesn't - tweaked, this thing will beat the 6950 XT into irrelevance any day, especially with its extremely weak RT capabilities) this cutdown disgrace of a "4070" while using more than twice as much energy to do so exists.

Credit where it is due: the power efficiency of this GPU is off the charts high, the performance per dollar is smashing (thanks to foul market conditions), and yes, it is better than anything AMD has released in the RX 6000 series. Now where is Navi 32/RX 7800? They've been quiet and for a good reason, if the 7900 XTX is anything to go by. That GPU failed to meet every performance and power target that they touted and aimed for, and it seems to be an utter commercial failure as well. The situation is not looking good, if AMD can't deliver, the market conditions will only continue to worsen over time.

 

[Bwaze]

Credit where it is due: the power efficiency of this GPU is off the charts high, the performance per dollar is smashing (thanks to foul market conditions),

Smashing what? It's worse than any old card, except the very high end that was never performance/dolar reasonable. Are you looking at the chart upside down?

 

[MarsM4N]

LTT numbers are weird. He only benches a few games, so the average performance difference is skewed by F1 22 numbers where, at 1080p for example, 4070 scores 183fps and 6800XT scores 253fps. But W1zzard reports a more plausible 242.6 and 268.5 for that game and resolution, and he tests way more games so outliers don't affect the overall results so much. So I have more trust in W1zzard's relative performance graph, which says 4070 and 6800XT are within 1% of each other at every resolution.

Yea, agree. His numbers for F1 22 are way off compared to other reviews. Wonder what happend there?

Did some cross checking on other sites, and performance wise in rasterization it's really a neck in neck:

https://www.pcworld.com/article/1781139/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4070-review.htmlhttps://www.igorslab.de/en/will-ada...b-review-with-200-and-220-watt-power-limit/5/https://www.computerbase.de/2023-04...chmarks_mit_und_ohne_raytracing_in_1920__1080
Still, if you don't need RT (which sucks on mid tier cards anyways), fake DLSS frames and a 100w lower power consumption, skipping the €200 Nvidia Premium taxed 4070 and getting a 6800XT is still the way better deal. Really hard to sugar coat. Nvidia even has to resort to using the DLSS "fake frames" on their homepage when comparing the 4070 to the 3070ti, because the performance is just absolutely trash for the price. Ohh god, it's so funny & absurd! They are clearly betting on the ignorant & non informed to fall for the trap, lol.

I was earning $1200 per month in 2018, Im earning $300 per month now with a way better job.

**cries in Argentina**

I was crying when I saw Argentine prices in the Steam store. Same for Turkey. If I had known about that before I would have bought half of the Steam store empty, like apparently others did. Which is btw. the reason Steam cracked down on cross region trading, region changing & expanded region locks on games. That's how some people got a 10k+ games Steam library, not because they're millionairs.

 

[Max(IT)]

Performance increases:
580->670 +14%
680->770 +5%
780->970 +21%
980->1070 +29%
1080->2070 +16%
2080->3070 +26%
3080->4070 +1%
3080->4070ti +17%

Now please tell me, is the 4070 or the 4070ti the "real" 4070?
The 4070 is a good GPU, just priced and named wrong.

And exactly why do they have to follow a fixed scheme here ?
Market situation is changed over the time, new “subclasses” has been introduced in the meanwhile, making the segmentation quite different.

Yes, prices are definitely wrong here, but not because of that performance increase table.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Smashing what? It's worse than any old card, except the very high end that was never performance/dolar reasonable. Are you looking at the chart upside down?

Yes, it's worse than any old card, read my very first post on this thread... except none of these older cards are relevant anymore. Hardware Unboxed will agree with me:

 

[W1zzard]

Hardware Unboxed will agree with me

Do you feel that using MSRP (HUB) is a better approach for such an analysis than current pricing (me)?

 

[3x0]

Do you feel that using MSRP (HUB) is a better approach for such an analysis than current pricing (me)?

HUB has both. Current pricing analysis is better for sure.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Do you feel that using MSRP (HUB) is a better approach for such an analysis than current pricing (me)?

Not really, price isn't constant worldwide, so MSRP is a "fair" (although, unrealistic) metric to compare. Both methods are valid, and I perfectly understand why did you start doing it - MSRP has become fantasy... but those Newegg prices are also equally fantasy in the world at large

Ultimately, the MSRP is what the manufacturer says that the product should cost, so for price/performance discussions, I gravitate towards using it to base an argument. But for buyers in North America mostly, your method is the better one. As long as both are included, that's fair game, IMO.

 

[W1zzard]

but those Newegg prices are also equally fantasy in the world at large

Using eBay for such cases

the MSRP is what the manufacturer says that the product should cost

Problem is that they've been lying about MSRP for the past years, and unless we stop looking at MSRP, they will continue to do so

 

[nguyen]

Using eBay for such cases


Problem is that they've been lying about MSRP for the past years, and unless we stop looking at MSRP, they will continue to do so

MSRP is still enforced in Asia for both Nvidia/AMD, so TPU pricing is wayyyyy offf