NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Founders Edition

[Dr. Dro]

I think there are also a lot of people like me, willing to buy used videocards. Here in Argentina, the 135.000 pesos (around $360) that I paid for my barely used 6800XT Nitro+ a week ago would get me a new GTX1650 at best. My budget was 150.000 ($400). For my other used options, I wasnt willing to buy a 3080 with only 10GB in 2023 for $400, and 3080 12GB was a lot more expensive ($450+) and very hard to find people selling them since they're still great (its power consumption was also even higher than a 3090 and I wasnt comfortable using it with my RM750x).

If I had the option to buy a used 12-16GB nVIDIA GPU for a similar or very slightly higher price than what I paid, I would have stayed with nVidia. But that just wasn't an option. If you have $400 for a GPU in Argentina and arent scared to buy used, between 3080 10GB and 6800XT 16GB, the 6800XT is a no-brainer. Remember that $400 is around 2 months of minimum wage here, that's quite an investment for a GPU and I cant just upgrade next year when 10GB gets destroyed by more new PS5 games.

I agree. That's a very good deal for that price in our economic context down here. I regularly buy used GPUs myself, or at least used to before the whole mining thing came down.

 

[wheresmycar]

Do you feel that using MSRP (HUB) is a better approach for such an analysis than current pricing (me)?

"Current pricing" all the way! MSRP for the gpu market is senseless nowadays, esp for real-time comparative buying decisions. I'm not against setting out MSRP stats (which may have it's uses, eg. squabbling in online forums hehe) but more in a secondary capacity opposed to the primary set of data which is best reflective of the current market.

Actually, why not list both Current and MSRP side-by-side... a win for everyone (providing the order of listing is based on current prices)

 

[MarsM4N]

news about Amd drivers corrupting Windows installation were litterally everywhere a few weeks ago.

AMD drivers are bricking Windows 11 systems...again | TechRadar

Radeon Driver Bug Corrupts Windows, AMD Shares Fix | Tom's Hardware (tomshardware.com)

But as I said since the beginning, it was totally expected by AMD fanbase.
They storm every thread, fighting their Holy War against the Green Enemy.
I know the "never happened to me" narrative.

All of you (the usual names...) totally derailed the thread, speaking of irrelevant Radeon on a thread about RTX 4070.

So is it a AMD driver development problem or a MS Windows 11 development problem?

Wouldn't be the first thing Microsoft breaking something crucial by re-inventing the wheel without telling other software/driver developers about it pre-deployment. I probably could fill a whole page here with links to Windows 11 breaking things. Or just look in your Steam library and check what games are still running on Win 10/11 without requiring user created modifications to still run a game. If they continue on this path Linux will have a glory time as the new gaming OS in the future.

People are way overcomplicating this for seemingly no other reason than to fuel their make belive fanboy war

If card A uses 200w and card B uses 300w while giving me a similar amount of perfomance I'm going to choose card A almost every time unless B offers me somthing drastically better than A like better Upscaling/RT/Other Features.

This is for in 2023 only in relation to overall performance.

I'm ok with the 400 ish watts my 4090 uses due to the performance it gives me at 4k I would not be ok with the perfomance a 7900XTX gives me at it's power usage at 4k in RT heavy games regardless of how much cheaper it is. This pertains to me if you think the alternative is better good for you.

There are a ton of other factors why somone might choose the lower power consumption card or vice versa for me the only thing that really matters is what perfomance does it give me for the amount of power it uses.

Also most reviewers compare just stock settings while you can massively reduce power consumption with custom settings.

With a reduced power limit you can get down the power consumption of a 6950XT down to what, 200W(?) without loosing much performance. Nvidia's 4000 Series wonderfully scales down power consumption if you just enable frame capping. Better frame timing is just a bonus. On the other hand AMD's 7000 Series has problems with frame capped power consumption, it just keeps sipping power. Would be a total deal breaker for me. I just don't understand how they could miss something crucial like that.

Hey @W1zzard , did you check VRM on all cards?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1646475350296150016

Geez, 106,4C doesn't look healthy to me. And that's just the PCB, right? The VRM's must be cooking itself.

Definitely. But Ive been a PC gamer for over 25 years, and downloading cracked games is even cheaper than Xbox GP while I can still play at Ultra settings.

I still do have a backlog of like 300 games out of 550 on my Steam from the past 10 years that I wanna play tho. I just wont be able to buy any more AAA games, no way Im spending 25% of my monthly income in a single game. Its sad, because the RE4 Demo looks great and I just got a used 6800XT after selling my 2060 Super and PS4.

Well, cracked games look only "cheap" at a glace. They're often laced with malware. And when your passwords, eMail, social, gaming & bank accounts get stolen as a result it can get quite expensive.

If you want cheap games just don't buy at release. Most games at release are trash anyways, needing months of patches to become enjoyable. If it's a multiplayer game with potential dwindling player base, get it after 3-6 months. If it's a singleplayer game just wait 2-3 years and pick it up for a bargain. Also key resellers have unbelievable good deals you will never see on the Steam store. Just don't fall for private seller scammers. If it sounds too good to be true, it most likely is.

 

[Dr. Dro]

So is it a AMD driver development problem or a MS Windows 11 development problem?

AMD's, they've specifically released targeted fixes for this scenario

Geez, 106,4C doesn't look healthy to me. And that's just the PCB, right? The VRM's must be cooking itself.

VRMs are usually designed to run in the 115 to 120 range. I don't like it either, but just blowing air on them usually brings them much lower.

Haha check history they definitely have. 3.5GB gtx 970?¡?

The GTX 970 did have 4 GB, even if its weird crossbar setup caused the last 512 MB to be slower. Either way this was almost nine years ago, and the segment that GPU was intended to service not only could live with that, but it was a big bunch of nothing as games rarely needed more than 3 GB of video memory to begin with. It went on to be one of the most commercially successful video cards of all time, so in any case, Nvidia was very much forgiven by the customer.

 

[Beelzeboss]

Well, cracked games look only "cheap" at a glace. They're often laced with malware. And when your passwords, eMail, social, gaming & bank accounts get stolen as a result it can get quite expensive.

If you want cheap games just don't buy at release. Most games at release are trash anyways, needing months of patches to become enjoyable. If it's a multiplayer game with potential dwindling player base, get it after 3-6 months. If it's a singleplayer game just wait 2-3 years and pick it up for a bargain. Also key resellers have unbelievable good deals you will never see on the Steam store. Just don't fall for private seller scammers. If it sounds too good to be true, it most likely is.

Didnt get a single malware or virus in my life, and Im 35y. This honestly just sounds like what the people scared of torrents always says. But if you know where to look for trustworthy sources, its as safe as it gets.

Waiting to buy something doesnt really work in Argentina. Resident Evil 4 Remake was $8500 pesos when the preorder launched. Capcom updated its prices and now its $22.600 pesos for the normal, $26.500 pesos for the deluxe. Thats over $70 dollars in a country with a minimum monthly wage of $220 dollars. Even if I wait for 50% off sale, it will be more expensive than its old price. Same thing happened with Diablo 4. When you have over 100% yearly inflation ON TOP of constant currency devaluation, you gotta buy NOW NOW NOW, tomorrow its always gonna be more expensive.

I never, ever buy full price, as a rule anyway, unless the game is extremely cheap w regional pricing to begin with. Steam sales are just too good.

 

[N3M3515]

Now go back and read some of those old 2070 reviews. Here's a few choice samples:

"I see no reason to buy any of these RTX cards right now."
"This is what we get when there is no competition :S"
"This generation of Nvidia is just ridiculous. RTX 2070 is basically slightly better 1080 but far below 1080 ti."

The EXACT same complaints we are hearing right now. Suddenly, now the 2070 wasnt a total wet fart making the 3070 look artificially better by comparison.

In 4 years, people will be citing the 4070 as the reason why the 6070 isnt as good of a value as ada was.

In 2.5 years, we've had MASSIVE INFLATION. You are not getting a 4070 for $400, it just isnt happening. Same reason I cant get a brand new truck for $37k or a house for $90k anymore.

No point in keep engaging with someone that keeps regurgitating the same talking points and does not bother to even understand what he's quoting.

 

[Max(IT)]

Yeah like creating less e-waste? A card that is only as fast as a 2.5 year old 3080 10GB with only 2GB more, which is just enough in some new games and in some cases not enough if you want to set textures to high with RT on. Power consumption isn't that much of a problem, cost isn't an issue unless you'd have the PC running 24/7.

I’m not considering a gen to gen upgrade as something very useful. The 4070 in my opinion is a good option for people coming from a 2060 Super or 2070 Super

Hey @W1zzard , did you check VRM on all cards?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1646475350296150016

This is a scaring point. Manufacturers have been “forced” by Nvidia to keep some cards at MSRP, with no many weeks of notice. So it’s possible that some cut some corners on the card. The GPU doesn’t require much power, but a 6-phase power stage is a very cheap solution even for 200W.

igor's lab is a bit drama queen/click bait master, so i would wait for someone else's confirmation

i'm going to be stoned again like with the hardware unboxed clickbait video but so be it, i speak the truth

Igorslab could be a drama queen, but it’s quite competent speaking about electronics (which cannot be said about 95% of the websites on the matter).
A 6-phase design VRM really is not so great

 

[3x0]

This is a scaring point. Manufacturers have been “forced” by Nvidia to keep some cards at MSRP, with no many weeks of notice. So it’s possible that some cut some corners on the card. The GPU doesn’t require much power, but a 6-phase power stage is a very cheap solution even for 200W.

The problem isn't the 6phase VRM but lack of screws to create sufficient cooler pressure on the VRM. The card basically sagged itself to those insane temps because the cooler doesnt have enough screw points.

 

[btk2k2]

The GTX 970 did have 4 GB, even if its weird crossbar setup caused the last 512 MB to be slower. Either way this was almost nine years ago, and the segment that GPU was intended to service not only could live with that, but it was a big bunch of nothing as games rarely needed more than 3 GB of video memory to begin with. It went on to be one of the most commercially successful video cards of all time, so in any case, Nvidia was very much forgiven by the customer.

700 and 900 series are allegories for 3000 and 4000 series.

The 700 series came out around the PS4 launch and was woefully short of VRAM for the long haul. It did fine during the cross gen phase but once the true next gen only games came out it started to falter. The 780Ti vs 290X showed this long term. Those who went with the $1,000 6GB Titan of that era had a much better experience just like those who went with the 3090 or 3090Ti will have a much better experience long term.

The 900 series came out a bit later, offered more vram for the entire stack (970 4GB / 980 4GB offering more than the 780Ti for example) but outside of the 6GB 980Ti and 12GB Titan it was still a bit short further down so lost steam as more and more current gen only games were released. The bright side though was the 970 was a great performing card for $330 and the 980 was $550. At that sort of price you can forgive a few compromises in the 970. To me this is the same thing. The 4080 with 16GB is fine like the 6GB 980Ti was and the 24GB 4090 will be great for a while like the 12GB Titan was but the 12GB and below cards and going to suffer the same way the 970 and 980 did and there is no saving grace of the 4070 being a really well priced card.

So really this 4070 at $600 is simply not good enough IMO. It needed to be a cheaper part and if they don't want to devalue the 4070 price window they should have called it a 4060, sold it for $400 and then with 12GB it would really really be a fantastic successor to the 1060 6GB which was a fantastic part for the price.

 

[Vayra86]

600 MSRP, 6 phase VRM, seems like logic. Can't be giving people a good product at 600 bucks now, come on, Huang ain't got time for that anymore.

Things have really changed @ green. I wonder if that VRM heat can cook nearby memory chips... at least we haven't got EVGA around to create another FTW cooler that does that for them..

 

[MarsM4N]

This is a scaring point. Manufacturers have been “forced” by Nvidia to keep some cards at MSRP, with no many weeks of notice. So it’s possible that some cut some corners on the card. The GPU doesn’t require much power, but a 6-phase power stage is a very cheap solution even for 200W.

Igorslab could be a drama queen, but it’s quite competent speaking about electronics (which cannot be said about 95% of the websites on the matter).
A 6-phase design VRM really is not so great

Ironically it wasn't (only) the custom designers who cut corners with a 6-phase VRM design, it was Nvidia himself on it's "Founders Edition", too.

Just re-checked the reviews at TPU, and it's mostly the cheaper custom models using 6-phase. The more expensive customs using 8-phase, the MSI Gaming X Trio uses 9-phase & the Asus TUF uses even 10-phase. That's very interesting. The Asus TUF is also the fastest and the most silent. The Gainward Phoenix you see in the video (not tested by TPU) also uses a 10-phase design.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

AMD's, they've specifically released targeted fixes for this scenario



VRMs are usually designed to run in the 115 to 120 range. I don't like it either, but just blowing air on them usually brings them much lower.



The GTX 970 did have 4 GB, even if its weird crossbar setup caused the last 512 MB to be slower. Either way this was almost nine years ago, and the segment that GPU was intended to service not only could live with that, but it was a big bunch of nothing as games rarely needed more than 3 GB of video memory to begin with. It went on to be one of the most commercially successful video cards of all time, so in any case, Nvidia was very much forgiven by the customer.

Copium plus denial = delusion.

Still, not just AMD do fury type things then eh, I had many more examples for Nvidia then that too but that LIE became famous.

Edit

I did see the retort'S but yawn, new me walks away and does this if it's That off topic and bollo#&, to avoid thread trashing.

Pot kettle black, Max1t

 

[Bomby569]

i'm no expert but this all comes from unpopulated spaces, because from a performance perspective the 3060ti founders edition has 7 phases while drawing 220W. If there were no unpopulated spaces there would be no issue. Or am i missing something?

 

[3x0]

i'm no expert but this all comes from unpopulated spaces, because from a performance perspective the 3060ti founders edition has 7 phases while drawing 220W. If there were no unpopulated spaces there would be no issue. Or am i missing something?

People just haven't read the article and commented about the issue.

The 6 phase VRM isn't the problem, the cooler doesn't have proper contact with the VRM on some cards leading to the increased temps on certain AIBs.

 

[Bomby569]

People just haven't read the article and commented about the issue.

The 6 phase VRM isn't the problem, the cooler doesn't have proper contact with the VRM on some cards leading to the increased temps on certain AIBs.

So it's even more confusing. They talk about lacking fases on the nivida founders. This is worst then getting information from facebook or tik tok

Anyway just see specific reviews before jumping into any new (as in just released) card, they will fix it in version 2.0, a classic. New adopters always get screwed. And i would still wait for others reviews, Igor's is not the best source. I would go with tech Jesus.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Copium plus denial = delusion.

Still, not just AMD do fury type things then eh, I had many more examples for Nvidia then that too but that LIE became famous.

Where's the copium or denial, mate?

So tell me, when was the last time Nvidia dropped an architecture after 5 years?

700 and 900 series are allegories for 3000 and 4000 series.

The 700 series came out around the PS4 launch and was woefully short of VRAM for the long haul. It did fine during the cross gen phase but once the true next gen only games came out it started to falter. The 780Ti vs 290X showed this long term. Those who went with the $1,000 6GB Titan of that era had a much better experience just like those who went with the 3090 or 3090Ti will have a much better experience long term.

The 900 series came out a bit later, offered more vram for the entire stack (970 4GB / 980 4GB offering more than the 780Ti for example) but outside of the 6GB 980Ti and 12GB Titan it was still a bit short further down so lost steam as more and more current gen only games were released. The bright side though was the 970 was a great performing card for $330 and the 980 was $550. At that sort of price you can forgive a few compromises in the 970. To me this is the same thing. The 4080 with 16GB is fine like the 6GB 980Ti was and the 24GB 4090 will be great for a while like the 12GB Titan was but the 12GB and below cards and going to suffer the same way the 970 and 980 did and there is no saving grace of the 4070 being a really well priced card.

So really this 4070 at $600 is simply not good enough IMO. It needed to be a cheaper part and if they don't want to devalue the 4070 price window they should have called it a 4060, sold it for $400 and then with 12GB it would really really be a fantastic successor to the 1060 6GB which was a fantastic part for the price.

I agree. It seems obvious it was designed to slot in the same bracket as the 1060-6GB once did, but it's just horribly priced. This will go on as long as there is no meaningful competition, I suppose.

 

[Blitzkuchen]

3060ti and 4070 have a very similar PCB

Im sure if there where a shitstorm like the 4080 twice it would be labeled as 4060ti and not 4070.
But the fans of nvidia love it to get scamed, and now they have theyr 4060ti as 4070 for 600$.

 

[R0H1T]

Can't be giving people a good product at 600 bucks now, come on, Huang ain't got time for that anymore.

You don't like his (growing) leather jacket collection, or the oven? You heretic

 

[Bomby569]

3060ti and 4070 have a very similar PCB

Im sure if there where a shitstorm like the 4080 twice it would be labeled as 4060ti and not 4070.
But the fans of nvidia love it to get scamed, and now they have theyr 4060ti as 4070 for 600$.

and what's the problem with that is they have similar power draw (even lower in this case for the 4070)?

you want a bejewelled PCB?

 

[Max(IT)]

The problem isn't the 6phase VRM but lack of screws to create sufficient cooler pressure on the VRM. The card basically sagged itself to those insane temps because the cooler doesnt have enough screw points.

Well, 6 phase/50 A VRM for 200W isn’t exactly a great solution anyway. That card is the Ventus, even if Igor doesn’t say it directly. MSI Ventus boards often are really bad products

Copium plus denial = delusion.

Still, not just AMD do fury type things then eh, I had many more examples for Nvidia then that too but that LIE became famous.

Is there a single post where you don’t speak of AMD, or do you have a contract to do so ?

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Well, 6 phase/50 A VRM for 200W isn’t exactly a great solution anyway. That card is the Ventus, even if Igor doesn’t say it directly. MSI Ventus boards often are really bad products

Not saying anyone should buy this but anyone who is already spending 600 usd should just spend 5-10% more and get one with a decent PCB... Nvidia reference card looks like something you'd see on a super budget card component wise and likely due to very tight margins some AIB cut even more corners again Nvidia has to approve it so regardless I still place blame on them.

At the very least look at them all and just get the best MSRP model for sure.

 

[Max(IT)]

3060ti and 4070 have a very similar PCB

Actually not. 3060 Ti has an 8-phase power stage design.

Not saying anyone should buy this but anyone who is already spending 600 usd should just spend 5-10% more and get one with a decent PCB... Nvidia reference card looks like something you'd see on a super budget card component wise and likely due to very tight margins some AIB cut even more corners again Nvidia has to approve it so regardless I still place blame on them.

At the very least look at them all and just get the best MSRP model for sure.

To be honest on the FE the issue in not really so relevant. Thanks to a better mechanically designed cooler, temperatures are no really a big problem



So basically is the 6-phase power staged AND a cheap solution combination on MSI Ventus model the reason for issue.

 

[Icon Charlie]

This card was never meant to be more than a vanilla 4060 if you go by architecture's maximum potential.



I must disagree, the GTX 1050 Ti was never meant to, nor did it ever pretend to be anything more than what it is: a low-budget, cheap graphics card for low-end gaming PCs. Following that absurd logic, let's bring up the RX 6500 XT instead of one of NVIDIA's few genuinely honest products.

Now, biased ranting aside, there is absolutely no foundation in reality for any of the claims that you've made - There is no Navi 21 SKU that's a better deal than this, and I must confess I find it absolutely hilarious how AMD loyalists are quick to point out that an super-halo, power-guzzling card that barely beats (except that it doesn't - tweaked, this thing will beat the 6950 XT into irrelevance any day, especially with its extremely weak RT capabilities) this cutdown disgrace of a "4070" while using more than twice as much energy to do so exists.

Credit where it is due: the power efficiency of this GPU is off the charts high, the performance per dollar is smashing (thanks to foul market conditions), and yes, it is better than anything AMD has released in the RX 6000 series. Now where is Navi 32/RX 7800? They've been quiet and for a good reason, if the 7900 XTX is anything to go by. That GPU failed to meet every performance and power target that they touted and aimed for, and it seems to be an utter commercial failure as well. The situation is not looking good, if AMD can't deliver, the market conditions will only continue to worsen over time.

I respectfully Disagree. You never seen what the people in China ( and other parts of the world) can do with used components.

I have and there is one thing I give mad respect too to anyone is the ability to reuse what is consider "old" and obsolete material and make something interesting out of it.

I'll stand by my last comment. The 1050TI could have been a lot more than it was created for.

They did skimp on it pretty hard just looking at the PCB. like I said even PNY 599 card seems better equipped regardless.


You still crying about 8GB of vram lol? Heaven forbid people wanting progress.

This kind of connects with my last comment above as well as my comment with Ngreedia doing everything on the cheap as well as planned obsolescence. A Freaking Half Board???... COMEON MAN....

There are pricing formulas that are used in manufacturing in whatever sector of business you are in. I've got a ball part figure on how much this video card costs.

The 4070 is made CHEAPLY. It is being sold at a price that NGREEDIA thinks they can get gerbils to buy.
Have you not been watching all of the sales pitch sales pitch on who their demographics are? They know Greenies ARE eventually gerbils. IMHO all of their marketing are targeting those 1080 owners and perhaps 2000 series of owners as well.

Right now the video card is not moving that well. IMHO if the video card was priced starting at the $450 range for the FE video card, it would be out of stock and Ngreedia would still be making a lot of money.

But IMHO the reason for the price is Price Fixation. They do not want to the prices on the higher end cards to go down. So slot this card at $600.00. The Greenies WILL buy them because they ARE fanbois.

And the rest of us are balking because right now because the 4070 not a good product.

It is a cheaply made $450 dollar card priced at $600 dollars.

ADDED. Just saw this and damn he just validated my comments on who is this card is made for.

 

[Easo]

So in Latvia the price starts from 670 EUR (surprising) and ends on 830 EUR... I was thinking it would be 800-900. I suppose I should be glad I was somewhat wrong xD

 

[oxrufiioxo]

.This kind of connects with my last comment above as well as my comment with Ngreedia doing everything on the cheap as well as planned obsolescence. A Freaking Half Board???... COMEON MAN....

There are pricing formulas that are used in manufacturing in whatever sector of business you are in. I've got a ball part figure on how much this video card costs.

The 4070 is made CHEAPLY. It is being sold at a price that NGREEDIA thinks they can get gerbils to buy.
Have you not been watching all of the sales pitch sales pitch on who their demographics are? They know Greenies ARE eventually gerbils. IMHO all of their marketing are targeting those 1080 owners and perhaps 2000 series of owners as well.

Right now the video card is not moving that well. IMHO if the video card was priced starting at the $450 range for the FE video card, it would be out of stock and Ngreedia would still be making a lot of money.

But IMHO the reason for the price is Price Fixation. They do not want to the prices on the higher end cards to go down. So slot this card at $600.00. The Greenies WILL buy them because they ARE fanbois.

And the rest of us are balking because right now because the 4070 not a good product.

It is a cheaply made $450 dollar card priced at $600 dollars.

ADDED. Just saw this and damn he just validated my comments on who is this card is made for.

I don't personally care what they are making per 4070 be it 50 usd or 300 usd, at it's 600 usd price point at the very least it should have a better pcb.

Sure the FE cooler is nice and likely expensive but but 4070s should have at the very least better pcbs and nvidia should allow enough margin for their aib partners to not have to cut corners.

As much as I wish all the current generation gpus were cheaper that isn't our current reality.

Relatively speaking at 1440p this card has the best price/performance of any current generation card which is kinda sad.

Still at 600 usd we should expect better

So technically everything released has been the fanboy edition depending on what camp you're in.