Raptor Lake Refresh is coming!

[Dr. Dro]

You might be right, but I think you're forgetting that, besides the 7700k, Intel didn't just increase clock speed. They also increased the number of cores too, but that's unlikely with any 14900K. The 13900k is already a big die for a mass market CPU: 257 mm^2.

I don't see it having more cores or more cache than the existing Raptor chips. Both would imply a redesign and that doesn't seem to be on the table. Not even a year after the 13900K came out (and not even 6 months after the KS launched). It's all speculation of course but I seriously think that RPL-R will be more akin to CML-R in nature. They launched 3 Core i3 SKUs when Comet's refresh came around. But this time I think it'll be up to the i7, and maybe a slightly better i9 K right below the KS. We'll see

 

[dgianstefani]

Maybe worse on a technical level, but way more common from TVs to non-gaming, non-professional monitors. This isn't a me issue.

If you're talking about the 10 year old 1600x900/1080p flatscreen computer monitor found in your average home, sure, but the point is that isn't what you should be using with your brand new GPU. Most of those systems are replaced with laptops anyway (non gaming, non professional). I don't think this is an argument for wasting space on a worse connector standard. USB-C would be more useful than HDMI.

Go to any etailer and look at their monitors, from £150-2000 I doubt you'll find a single one that doesn't have DP.

I don't see it having more cores or more cache than the existing Raptor chips. Both would imply a redesign and that doesn't seem to be on the table. Not even a year after the 13900K came out (and not even 6 months after the KS launched). It's all speculation of course but I seriously think that RPL-R will be more akin to CML-R in nature. They launched 3 Core i3 SKUs when Comet's refresh came around. But this time I think it'll be up to the i7, and maybe a slightly better i9 K right below the KS. We'll see

We'll see. Intel doesn't have to do much to keep their gaming crown, and their CPUs are already competitive even without a refresh. AMD just shot themselves in the foot with several months of bad PR around exploding CPUs and RAM issues.

 

[Selaya]

but they did jack up core counts for every subsequent repost of skylake after the first, tho ...
EDIT: CML-R ... that's the 10105, right?
yeah okay in that case that was just a pure repost, extremely lackluster too. point taken.

 

[AusWolf]

If you're talking about the 10 year old 1600x900/1080p flatscreen computer monitor found in your average home, sure, but the point is that isn't what you should be using with your brand new GPU.

What should I be using? If my 24" 1080p screen still works and has decent picture, then why should I spend money on replacing it?

I haven't looked at monitors for a while for the above reason, but if new panels all have DP, I'm glad.

 

[dgianstefani]

What should I be using? If my 24" 1080p screen still works and has decent picture, then why should I spend money on replacing it?

I haven't looked at monitors for a while for the above reason, but if new panels all have DP, I'm glad.

Well, a Windows XP machine probably still works too, but it's not really a great experience, nor is it something that modern hardware should support at the expense of superior options.

Try a 1440p 240 Hz or a 4K 120 Hz, in 32". Fast IPS or OLED. I'm consistently amazed at how many people have great PCs and terrible monitors/peripherals. Monitor/mouse/keyboard is a huge part of the PC experience and improving them can make a big difference to usage.

 

[AusWolf]

Try a 1440p 240 Hz or a 4K 120 Hz, in 32". Fast IPS or OLED.

I'd rather not. I don't want to get hooked on resolutions and refresh rates that need way more computing power than I'm willing to spend on.

 

[dgianstefani]

I'd rather not. I don't want to get hooked on resolutions and refresh rates that need way more computing power than I'm willing to spend on.

Trust me a 6750XT can do a lot more than 1080p60. 1440/120 IPS is pretty cheap these days and is comfortable for that GPU.

It's true, having a 240 Hz or 4K monitor makes you aware of any hardware weaknesses.

I'm hoping the 14th gen i5 K chip is better than the 13700K, should be a no compromise £300 CPU, even more so than the 13600K already is.

 

[P4-630]

I mean my 2070 Super can do 1440p which it has been doing since 2019..

 

[Dr. Dro]

I'm hoping the 14th gen i5 K chip is better than the 13700K, should be a no compromise £300 CPU, even more so than the 13600K already is.

That's extremely unlikely if not completely impossible, it'd only be achievable if RPL-R has increased cache and core counts

 

[dgianstefani]

That's extremely unlikely if not completely impossible, it'd only be achievable if RPL-R has increased cache and core counts

It's a difference of two cores, so clocks would only need to go up by what, 10-15%. 13600K does 5.1 out of the box and 13700K does 5.4 (both can OC to 5.8 GHz or higher without issue). I wouldn't be surprised to see a 5.6 GHz i5 that does 5.5 on all cores, with some other more minor tweaks reach parity on most tasks, since the 13700K is 15% faster at best (assuming full synthetic all core load).

The architecture can comfortably do 5.8, and even 6 GHz on a couple of cores, at it's current level of refinement, so I don't think that's too unrealistic to hope for 5.6 on an i5, seeing as it's the same die.

Reminder that the 13600K at stock, despite a frequency and two P core disadvantage is basically as good as a 12900K in

Applications-

Games (tested with a 3080 though)-

Sure, some of that is bigger cache, but the rest is just a process refinement/general optimization.

 

[AusWolf]

Trust me a 6750XT can do a lot more than 1080p60. 1440/120 IPS is pretty cheap these days and is comfortable for that GPU.

I don't doubt that, but I'd rather use the 6750 XT at 1080p for 6 years than at 1440p for 4 years. It may not seem like much for some, but it's actually the most expensive GPU I've ever owned.

When I've got some spare cash, I rather spend it on PC upgrades, spare parts, a secondary rig, basically anything but a monitor upgrade that would necessitate even more upgrades.

It's true, having a 240 Hz or 4K monitor makes you aware of any hardware weaknesses.

Exactly.

 

[Macro Device]

This thread is more than 25 hours old and no one pointed out iGPUs are also used for video recording and streaming so iGPU-less gamers have to rely on NVENC/AMD encoder/CPU cores for these tasks and it's balls to say the least. Removing the iGPU from a CPU is a daylight robbery if we're talking about CPUs without 5 million extra cores for software encoding.

30 quid dGPUs, though, are the real case on 2nd hand market. Caring about warranty and longevity of such cards is a clear sign of helplessly weak personal economy so I doubt you should be bothered much. I personally spent 40 pounds on an RX 480 8 GB which is fully working, thus having a dGPU which can run quite everything for a negligible buck count. But still, there are a lot of things iGPUs do better, especially the mission of not taking any extra space inside your PC case which is a clear KO.

Best possible scenario is overclocked i3s and i5s, such as 14100F @ 5 GHz, and 14400F @ 4.9 GHz or so. Realistic scenario is +3 percent speed over the OG RPL. Worst case scenario is Intel will start selling KCAS PSUs instead of their CPUs the realistic scenario but for the cost of +150 W TDP.

I'd rather use the 6750 XT at 1080p

Zactly my situation. Can't stand subpar performance of my RX 6700 XT at 4K. Went back to 1080p (2560x1080) and can't feel any better since now it feels like something really fast.

Probably you should invest in a monitor with higher frequency rather than higher resolution. 60 FPS ain't as good as 144.

 

[Dr. Dro]

It's a difference of two cores, so clocks would only need to go up by what, 10-15%. 13600K does 5.1 out of the box and 13700K does 5.4 (both can OC to 5.8 GHz or higher without issue). I wouldn't be surprised to see a 5.6 GHz i5 that does 5.5 on all cores, with some other more minor tweaks reach parity on most tasks, since the 13700K is 15% faster at best (assuming full synthetic all core load).

The architecture can comfortably do 5.8, and even 6 GHz on a couple of cores, at it's current level of refinement, so I don't think that's too unrealistic to hope for 5.6 on an i5, seeing as it's the same die.

Reminder that the 13600K at stock, despite a frequency and two P core disadvantage is basically as good as a 12900K in

Applications-
View attachment 299492

Games (tested with a 3080 though)-
View attachment 299493

Sure, some of that is bigger cache, but the rest is just a process refinement/general optimization.

Yeah in this case it'd be a couple hundred MHz at best tho. Not an entirely overhauled P-core, boosted E-core frequencies, larger cache, improved node, etc.

 

[ir_cow]

There's the v/f efficiency curve to account for and I suspect thats why the KS binning is so tight (read: low availability). 13900KS ships at the very edge of it, it became clear to me as I was trying to undervolt my chip.

of course, some CPUs do the same with less voltage than me and people can adjust the v/f curve as well. This was just a example of what it takes for me. 1.4V for 6Ghz in R23. Otherwise it will crash the program.

 

[Macro Device]

1.4V for 6Ghz in R23

And what's the wattage there?

 

[ir_cow]

And what's the wattage there?

430 watts. I don't have a chiller or setup for direct die. Could only do that a few times after a cold boot.

 

[Macro Device]

430 watts

Am I getting it correctly you're an i9-13900K owner? May I ask you for testing how much juice can you get from that CPU if it's limited to cheeky 130 W?

 

[ir_cow]

Am I getting it correctly you're an i9-13900K owner? May I ask you for testing how much juice can you get from that CPU if it's limited to cheeky 130 W?

Talking about perf? I posted that earlier in this thread...

Edit: Nvm it was the other one. Here you go. This is only a stock CPU with power limits. 4096 is just the "unlimited" power mode, which basically means it will boost to the maximum turbo indefinitely. R23 at that crazy wattage for all-core 5.7 (2 @ 6Ghz). is nearly 43K for ref. Not worth the extra wattage.

 

[Macro Device]

Talking about perf? I posted that earlier in this thread...

Edit: Nvm it was the other one. Here you go. This is only a stock CPU with power limits. 4096 is just the "unlimited" power mode, which basically means it will boost to the maximum turbo indefinitely. R23 at that crazy wattage for all-core 5.7 (2 @ 6Ghz). is nearly 43K for ref. Not worth the extra wattage.

As it's ~17% weaker at 150 W it probably means it's ~25% weaker at 130 W then. Not a biggie at all. Thank you bud, now I'm more sure about my next purchase.

 

[Dr. Dro]

This thread is more than 25 hours old and no one pointed out iGPUs are also used for video recording and streaming so iGPU-less gamers have to rely on NVENC/AMD encoder/CPU cores for these tasks and it's balls to say the least. Removing the iGPU from a CPU is a daylight robbery if we're talking about CPUs without 5 million extra cores for software encoding.

BTW I've tested QuickSync Video with my KS - it can be useful in some scenarios but at least for gaming you'll likely still want to use NVENC anyway, the latency is lower and the quality of the files produced is a bit higher

 

[Macro Device]

the latency is lower and the quality of the files produced is a bit higher

I don't think you need to be reminded of how expensive RTX 3000 cards are, especially compared to iGPUs. NVENC works worse on affordable GTX 1000s, way worse.

Oh and by the way, QSV is a must if you're already struggling with going beyond 60 FPS. NVENC ruins the IQ and/or performance in this case.

QSV is basically a "you don't need to stick to nVidia, your videos will be fine regardless."

 

[SchumannFrequency]

Will Raptor Lake Refresh CPUs be compatible with the chipset B760 intel motherboards?

 

[dgianstefani]

Will Raptor Lake Refresh CPUs be compatible with the chipset B760 intel motherboards?

Yes.

May need a BIOS update.

 

[P4-630]

Will Raptor Lake Refresh CPUs be compatible with the chipset B760 intel motherboards?

Even though there isn't any confirmation on the RL refresh from intel, but if so, probably yes.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Will Raptor Lake Refresh CPUs be compatible with the chipset B760 intel motherboards?

Yes

Even though there isn't any confirmation on the RL refresh from intel, but if so, probably yes.

Gigabyte already has preliminary support in the latest BIOS versions for the upcoming SKUs. We just don't know their names yet.