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Off-the-shelf PC

You wouldn't lose money, you'd get similar raw performance for your budget (CPU, GPU, although still a bit worse than DIY), but the quality of components in a prebuilt compared to a DIY is generally much, much lower, in the same price. This isn't a claim, it's just a fact. PSU, cooling, case, storage performance and endurance, RAM speed (generally) and modularity/standards compatibility are all much, much worse in prebuilts.

No saying you are wrong, just that I'm not convinced (yet).
 
No saying you are wrong, just that I'm not convinced (yet).
Well, all you have to do to become convinced is set a price target, e.g. $1000, or $2000, then compare what you can get prebuilt wise, to what you can build for that price.
 
A premium prebuilt will always be an option, it's just going to come at a premium price comparatively.
Obviously no shortage of DIY proponents here so you'll have lots of help if needed should you decide to do so :)

Does your son or any of his friends like to build PCs?
A few bucks and free pizza can go a long way too lol, just a thought.
 
You could also try a pre-built NUC (though not the best value). I think you can connect an external GPU docking station through Thunderbolt, in the future, if you choose to.
But I'd say it's pretty bad value, overall. NUCs are quite expensive. I like their UEFI, though. And they don't take a lot of space - you can attach them on the back of your monitor, if you like.
I'd wait for the DDR5 versions to come out.
 
Want something that can carry a powerful video card
 
Well, all you have to do to become convinced is set a price target, e.g. $1000, or $2000, then compare what you can get prebuilt wise, to what you can build for that price.
I think setting a price target is good even it's a bit arbitrary. Then you start to question more and where you're getting the most bang for the buck.
 
I think setting a price target is good even it's a bit arbitrary. Then you start to question more and where you're getting the most bang for the buck.
Yep, plus it opens eyes when you start to question why the spec for prebuilt systems is something so undetailed, if they mention it at all, like - 650 W PSU, but no model or details past that. Same for cooling, RAM (e.g. 32 GB 2933, or just 32 GB) etc.
 
Here is my thinking...

If an individual can put together a better computer than say Dell for the same price... then open a business and get rich... very rich.
 
Here is my crude thinking...

If an individual can put together a btter computer than say Dell for the same price... then open a business and get rich... very rich.
No, because marketing, logistics, economies of scale and availability aren't even close to being comparable.

Your average local fast food is better than Mcdonalds too, but that doesn't mean the better product is the most popular.
 
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Want something that can carry a powerful video card
To help us understand what kind of power your looking for what kind of things will you do with it - the video card?
 
Here is my thinking...

If an individual can put together a better computer than say Dell for the same price... then open a business and get rich... very rich.
Hehe, well others have tried. I remember the Asmongold endorsed PCs. The ones with the hammer on them. Yeah... not very well received.
 
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Are you willing to consider a laptop? The added mobility is nice to have and a RTX 3050 should be OK.
 
Unnamed 512 GB SSD, no details on RAM, 500 W bronze PSU, 3 generation old CPU without integrated graphics, 3 generation old GPU, etc.

And it probably still manages to overheat.
1689016099648.png

Web and email, some gaming, some calculating (Mathematica), some work processing (TeX), but I also want an automated backup.

Don't need a cutting edge video card, but probably something better than I have now (GT 1030)

$1,000 might do it

HP Victus 15L Gaming Desktop - TG02-0027c -12th Generation Intel Core i5-12400F processor 6-Core - NVIDIA GeForce RTXTM 3050 Graphics - 8GB GDDR6 Dedicated Memory - 16GB Memory - 1TB SSD Drive - HP 310 - Sam's Club (samsclub.com)
 
1TB SSD on SAMS CLUB description

CPU doesn't match

Video card doesn't match


maybe you got the wrong link?
 
Web and email, some gaming, some calculating (Mathematica), some work processing (TeX), but I also want an automated backup.

Don't need a cutting edge video card, but probably something better than I have now (GT 1030)
A good midrange affordable card today is rx 6700 for example.
$1,000 might do it
I think that budget is quite fair enough to get you a decent uplift to what you have now.
Ok with similar specs I would hit up PC Part picker and see what can be matched.
 
Are you willing to consider a laptop? The added mobility is nice to have and a RTX 3050 should be OK.

Should have said, no laptop.
 
Ok with similar specs I would hit up PC Part picker and see what can be matched.
PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/pZjHv3

+$10 for Windows 10/11.

There is literally no contest.

CPU: Intel Core i5-13500 2.5 GHz 14-Core Processor ($247.98 @ B&H)
Motherboard: ASRock Z690M-ITX/ax Mini ITX LGA1700 Motherboard ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Silicon Power GAMING 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($48.97 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Blue SN580 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($109.99 @ Western Digital)
Video Card: Asus DUAL OC GeForce RTX 4060 8 GB Video Card ($299.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Meshify 2 Nano Mini ITX Tower Case ($55.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($119.90 @ Amazon)
Total: $1032.80
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-07-10 15:22 EDT-0400

Every one of these parts is highly reviewed, most of them even by TPU.
 
Most impressive
 
PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/pZjHv3

+$10 for Windows 10/11.

There is literally no contest.

CPU: Intel Core i5-13500 2.5 GHz 14-Core Processor ($247.98 @ B&H)
Motherboard: ASRock Z690M-ITX/ax Mini ITX LGA1700 Motherboard ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Silicon Power GAMING 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($48.97 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Blue SN580 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($109.99 @ Western Digital)
Video Card: Asus DUAL OC GeForce RTX 4060 8 GB Video Card ($299.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Meshify 2 Nano Mini ITX Tower Case ($55.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($119.90 @ Amazon)
Total: $1032.80
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-07-10 15:22 EDT-0400

Every one of these parts is highly reviewed, most of them even by TPU.
You are giving me urges to buy Intel just now. (I must resist. :fear:)
 
All much appreciated; I feel I now have a better grip on reality.

I thank everyone for their time.
 
See, that's your problem. Some people have a budget and want to get the best option within that. You're perfectly happy to criticise, but aren't offering any solutions.

OP is coming from a 1030 and doesn't seem too bothered about graphics horsepower, in the entry level range, the 4060 is the best option. If you want to take issue with that, you need to have a compelling alternative.

Clearly you have misunderstood the sentiment being expressed.
A hard pass excluding any further contemplation if there is in fact a better option amongst the current offerings.

With ++++fps gaming at 8K off the table it would appear Intel's determination to pack as many of their devices into prebuilt might result in a gpu suitable for his needs. :)

I agree with you, while others here seem to be claiming I would lose money going this route.

What we, in direct contrast with Bill Bright, are claiming is to be educated consumers who live in a world that has proven parts are not parts.
 
No saying you are wrong, just that I'm not convinced (yet).
Sorry but that's because you don't have an open mind here.
Well, all you have to do to become convinced is set a price target, e.g. $1000, or $2000, then compare what you can get prebuilt wise, to what you can build for that price.
But once again, you have to look at the long term to truly realize the value in your investment.

If you buy a Dell, odds are you will ONLY be able to upgrade the motherboard with another Dell OEM board because the case will be proprietary. That will greatly limit your options and surely, the replacement will not be at a bargain price. Same with the PSU.

These limitations also mean you cannot evolve your computer through many years of upgrades where if you build your own, or buy a custom built locally, surely you can upgrade the motherboard to just about ANY brand you want. You can move from Intel to AMD. You can keep your graphics card, or upgrade - YOUR CHOICE! All the while, keep the same PSU (if you purchased wisely at the beginning) and keep the same case.

Buying a PC from a big factory builder is almost as limiting as buying a laptop. You will have very limited upgrade options to carry you through more years of productive use. This means, if you build your own (or have your own custom built), you will get more years out it than you will any factory built PC.

Now if you are the type who wants all new every couple years, the by all means, by a Dell. But don't think for a second that you are spending you money efficiently.

Here is my thinking...

If an individual can put together a better computer than say Dell for the same price... then open a business and get rich... very rich.
Who said a "better" computer for the "same" price? Not me. IMO, that is NOT possible unless you just happen to stumble on some super deep discount sales - or buy used. This, again, is because Dell can go to ASUS and AMD and promise to buy 1,000,000 motherboards and CPUs over the next year and thus demand and get deep volume discounts. No way you, as an individual, or a small custom builder can get those prices buying just 1, 3 or even 10 units at a time.

And for sure, any Dell or HP you buy will have compromises here and there to (1) save Dell money and (2) meet the needs "they" say you need.

So as I said above, it will cost a bit more initially - but strategically, that is, over the long run (as in several years ahead), you will save money because you will have a tremendous amount of flexibility to upgrade here and there to keep the computer nearer the state-of-the-art and stretching out the total lifespan.

Can you get a nice Seasonic PSU with your Dell? One that will carry you through several upgrades? Nope.

Can you get the RAM of YOUR choice through Dell? Nope.

Can you have a Gigabyte board in your Dell if Dell only offers an OEM Foxconn? Nope. What if you'd rather have an ASUS. Forget about it. Custom built? No problem. What model would like?

If Dell offers a 1Tb WD SATA SSD can you get a 3 TB Crucial M.2 instead? Probably not.

Flexibility may be an "intangible" (can't put a $ value on it) asset but isn't it worth something to you? It sure is to me. Its worth a lot, actually. So is a longer life expectancy that I can surely expect out of my case and PSU too, as well as my graphics solution, keyboard and mouse.

There really is no comparison, or doubts about. A properly researched self/custom built PC will save you many $$$€€€£££ over the long run. Period.
 
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