What is Radeon RX 7000 series for you? Please elaborate

[AnotherReader]

What is the chance that the GCD of Navi 31 is being made on the TSMC 3nm process, and not as claimed officially the 5nm process?

I found something in the data which doesn't add up.

Official data is:

Process Type N5 / N6 FinFET
Transistors 57,700 million
GCD Transistors 45,400 million
MCD Transistors 2,050 million x6
Density 109.1M / mm²
GCD Density 150.2 M / mm²
MCD Density 54.64 M / mm²
Die Size 529 mm²
GCD Die Size 304.35 mm²
MCD Die Size 37.52 mm² x6

AMD Navi 31 GPU Specs

6144 Cores, 384 TMUs, 192 ROPs

www.techpowerup.com

The thing is that there is no such high transistor density which can be achieved using the TSMC 5nm process - the maximum claimed is 138.2 MTr/mm² https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_nm_process
and 143.7 MTr/mm² on TSMC 4nm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_nm_process

However, the TSMC 3nm process allows it - maximum is 224.2 MTr/mm² on N3P and N3X. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_nm_process

I think GCD is made on 3nm process, while MCD is made on 7nm but extremely far from its potential maximum 114 MTr/mm².


To summarise.
GCD 150.2 MTr/mm²
TSMC 5nm process - maximum is 138.2 MTr/mm² https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_nm_process
TSMC 3nm process - maximum is 224.2 MTr/mm² (N3P | N3X) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_nm_process
TSMC 7nm process - maximum is 114 MTr/mm² https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_nm_process
MCD 54.64 MTr/mm²

For a comparison, nvidia's AD102 transistor density is 125.3 M/mm², and offically claimed 4nm process - maximum is 143.7 M/mm².

There's no way that they used N3 as N3 is too immature and costly at the moment. You're reading too much into these numbers. Maybe AMD has a typo in the transistor numbers. Given that the RX 7600 which should have about one third the transistor count, has less than a quarter the transistors of Navi 31, my theory of a typo seems right.

 

[N/A]

4100 Mtr of 13300 are the MCD part. the rest 9200 are 71,3 density. MCD on 6nm 4100 54,6

so navi 31 45400, that is alot of transistors unnaccounted for, since it is triple the NAVI33, it should be 9200 by 3 or 27600. so what are the remaining 45400 - 27600 doing. 17800 just for infinity band. lol so bad.

 

[AnotherReader]

4100 Mtr of 13300 are the MCD part. the rest 9200 are 71,3 density. MCD on 6nm 4100 54,6

so navi 31 45400, that is alot of transistors unnacounted for, since it is triple the NAVI33, it should be 9200 by 3 or 27600. so what are the remaining 45400 - 27600 doing. 17800 just for infinity band. lol so bad.

You should read Real World Technologies's article about the flawed transistor count metric. AMD may have included decap and dummy devices in the transistor count.

Our friends at TechInsights perform circuit-level analysis that includes the number of active and layout transistors for small portions of a die. They were kind enough to share some of these analyses for a handful of 7nm SoCs. The data is based on a small number of sample locations within each SoC, typically the GPU, which will have the greatest transistor density. They found that in the small sampled regions that the active transistors were between 70-80% of the total, and the remaining 20-30% of layout transistors were decap and dummy devices. These numbers are based on limited samples, because this analysis is fairly expensive and time-consuming. To confirm and elaborate, we gathered numbers on several modern designs and found that active transistors are commonly 63-66% of the layout transistors and that 33-37% of the layout transistors are decap cells. The TechInsights numbers are probably low because they are primarily looking at the densest logical portions of a SoC, rather than including whitespace which would include more decap transistors.

 

[SCP-001]

As someone that adopted 1st Gen Ryzen and the generation of chiplet GPUs, it's very so-so in my eyes. I wasn't expecting huge performance gains (Like the 3090 to the 4090). Much like how 1st gen ryzen was basically a "Can we do it like this?" moment, I see the 7000 series in the same light. It will take a few generations for Radeon to iron out any kinks like the interconnects and power usage. I excited to see how chiplet GPUs can change the landscape but I don't expect that change for a few years at best.

 

[ViperXZ]

Too early to tell. So far the XTX has at least a good price for the performance in 4K, though the 7700 XT / 7800 XT will ultimately decide if it's a success or not. These are very important semi-high end cards (or upper mid range).

 

[AusWolf]

As someone that adopted 1st Gen Ryzen and the generation of chiplet GPUs, it's very so-so in my eyes. I wasn't expecting huge performance gains (Like the 3090 to the 4090). Much like how 1st gen ryzen was basically a "Can we do it like this?" moment, I see the 7000 series in the same light. It will take a few generations for Radeon to iron out any kinks like the interconnects and power usage. I excited to see how chiplet GPUs can change the landscape but I don't expect that change for a few years at best.

Considering the fact that current gen chiplet CPUs still eat a lot of power in idle (20-25 W depending on RAM and UMC speed), I'm not even sure if we can expect every kink to be ironed out with GPUs, ever. There are some things we'll just have to live with, unless we'd rather pay the Nvidia tax.

 

[DemonicRyzen666]

Considering the fact that current gen chiplet CPUs still eat a lot of power in idle (20-25 W depending on RAM and UMC speed), I'm not even sure if we can expect every kink to be ironed out with GPUs, ever. There are some things we'll just have to live with, unless we'd rather pay the Nvidia tax.

That's only on desktop cpu's. Sever Cpu's with more cores while completely idle the I/O die can use as little as 1 whole single watt. You check one the Level1tech video all about it.

 

[SCP-001]

I'm not even sure if we can expect every kink to be ironed out with GPUs, ever.

Very true. There are still some problems with Ryzen's chiplets as well but I the past has shown that AMD's engineers can get around most of these problems. I think the interconnect for the RX7000 will probably be fixed by RX9 series, if they aren't already working on it for 8000. It was a similar story with Ryzen 1st gen vs 2nd and 3rd gen. 1st was proof of concept, 2nd was refining the concept, and 3rd was pushing it to it's limit.

 

[Space Lynx]

Very true. There are still some problems with Ryzen's chiplets as well but I the past has shown that AMD's engineers can get around most of these problems. I think the interconnect for the RX7000 will probably be fixed by RX9 series, if they aren't already working on it for 8000. It was a similar story with Ryzen 1st gen vs 2nd and 3rd gen. 1st was proof of concept, 2nd was refining the concept, and 3rd was pushing it to it's limit.

What problems you referring to? I have had 0 issues with my 7900 xt. Played like 50 games (most I was just testing and making sure my system was stable) everything seems fine to me.

 

[freeagent]

I would have bought a 7900XT but it was over 300 bucks more than my 4070 Ti.

Had to pass.. so I would say disappointed, as the prices suck.

 

[AsRock]

I would have bought a 7900XT but it was over 300 bucks more than my 4070 Ti.

Had to pass.. so I would say disappointed, as the prices suck.

Yep they sure do, back then closer to release they had a bunch of bad coolers too. In my opinion $1000 and $900 was about $300 over what they were worth.

 

[freeagent]

Yep they sure do, back then closer to release they had a bunch of bad coolers too. In my opinion $1000 and $900 was about $300 over what they were worth.

I paid 917 CAD for my Ti, and the closest 7900 was a Sapphire I think for like 1200, plus there is still tax on it all so.. ka-ching

 

[Space Lynx]

Yep they sure do, back then closer to release they had a bunch of bad coolers too. In my opinion $1000 and $900 was about $300 over what they were worth.

Agreed, I would have not got mine if it wasn't for the amazing deal I got on it. At $899 that is just dumb considering it doesn't have DLSS and FG. For the price I paid though, very happy with it.

I paid 580,that includes tax, brand new. Price includes the starfield games though.

 

[SCP-001]

What problems you referring to? I have had 0 issues with my 7900 xt. Played like 50 games (most I was just testing and making sure my system was stable) everything seems fine to me.

"Problems" is probably not the right word. But I basically mean the targets that they couldn't hit with this 1st generation of chiplet design. The interconnects need constant power to maintain stability and the clocks they couldn't hit without turning the power up to 11. I've had next to no issues with my 7900xtx as well, aside from a few visual glitches in cities skylines on bootup.

 

[AnotherReader]

I paid 917 CAD for my Ti, and the closest 7900 was a Sapphire I think for like 1200, plus there is still tax on it all so.. ka-ching

That's a great price. Funnily enough, Canada has cheaper 4070 Tis than USA at the moment, but the 7900 XT is the other way around.

Cheapest one in Canada works out to US $720.

 

[Macro Device]

That's a great price. Funnily enough, Canada has cheaper 4070 Tis than USA at the moment, but the 7900 XT is the other way around.
View attachment 308526
Cheapest one in Canada works out to US $720.
View attachment 308527

And we got a DRAW. (880 USD)

Spoiler: Caution: Cyrillic symbols

Our retailers have their prices up to 70% higher than in the US, about 25% on average, since late 2020.

 

[ARF]

Our retailers have their prices up to 70% higher than in the US, about 25% on average, since late 2020.

Who are these retailers and which prices are "up to 70%" higher?

 

[Space Lynx]

Can someone here that owns a 7900 XT or 7900 XTX confirm for me that in Age of Wonders III the game will not run high fps on the main city screens as you move around your armies, but in combat will run at max refresh rate of your monitor easily? I get like 70-80 fps on Ultra settings 1440p on the city screen even with only one city at the start of a game, but in combat it jumps to 165 fps easily...

I have a feeling this is one of those older broken games @tabascosauz talked about that don't work well with AMD 7000 series... i want to smash my PC right now. so frustrating. I guess you pay for what you get, maybe I should go to Nvidia while I still can.

 

[AusWolf]

Can someone here that owns a 7900 XT or 7900 XTX confirm for me that in Age of Wonders III the game will not run high fps on the main city screens as you move around your armies, but in combat will run at max refresh rate of your monitor easily? I get like 70-80 fps on Ultra settings 1440p on the city screen even with only one city at the start of a game, but in combat it jumps to 165 fps easily...

I have a feeling this is one of those older broken games @tabascosauz talked about that don't work well with AMD 7000 series... i want to smash my PC right now. so frustrating. I guess you pay for what you get, maybe I should go to Nvidia while I still can.

You want to smash your PC for having "only" 70-80 FPS in one game in some specific scenarios?

Is that within your screen's adaptive sync range, anyway?

 

[ViperXZ]

I have a feeling this is one of those older broken games @tabascosauz talked about that don't work well with AMD 7000 series... i want to smash my PC right now. so frustrating. I guess you pay for what you get, maybe I should go to Nvidia while I still can.

It sounds like you're overreacting. It's a older game, possibly bad coding. In any way, I would simply report it to AMD so they can fix it (IF it's a driver issue), it's not a huge problem to have "only" 80 fps in a RTS. It's a slow game. Isn't the city screen stagnant anyway?

 

[Space Lynx]

You want to smash your PC for having "only" 70-80 FPS in one game in some specific scenarios?

Is that within your screen's adaptive sync range, anyway?

This isn't the first older game to give me issues. I find it frustrating, it should easily run at max fps. The gpu isn't turning on right.

 

[ViperXZ]

This isn't the first older game to give me issues. I find it frustrating, it should easily run at max fps. The gpu isn't turning on right.

Which GPU did you have before? Elaborate why you're so sure it's a driver problem. And report all bugs to AMD anyway (if you think it's their problem).

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

This isn't the first older game to give me issues. I find it frustrating, it should easily run at max fps. The gpu isn't turning on right.

And your CPU definitely isn't holding up the frames?

 

[ViperXZ]

And your CPU definitely isn't holding up the frames?

I googled it a bit:

a) old game from 2014, so it's not the CPU, unlikely, also he has a 5600X3D (optimal for unoptimized games)

b) quite a few people had problems with FPS drops. If many people have issues with FPS drops, the likeliness it being the game and not the gpu or driver, is high.

 

[raddeon]

On a bit older games like BF 3 it can overclock to 3400mhz on the core, crazy.
Don't know why it's not possible on bf2042(typically 3000 to 3100mhz during gaming)

(550w bios on nitro+, but on stock air cooler so a bit high temperatures so it makes it even more impressive to achieve 3400 mhz stable)