i13800HX throttling, Vivobook x16 pro oled

[Hollowcow]

So I just got a new laptop including the i1380HX and Nvidia RTX 4070,
Im really new to ThrottleStop so not sure I have set it up the right way.
fan settings in asus software set to performance mode. (they get loud as hell so quickly!!!)
mux switch set to discreet gpu.

my cpu throttle like crazy even in mid usage.
the EDP Other is showing all the time on gpu and ring, somtimdes on cpu, even when idle and doing nothing.
when gaming and doing benchmarks like 3dmark I get a lot of warnings in the limits window like p1, temo, v max.

Im attachimng the log file (look around time 02:47:00, was playing COD) and my settings.
didn't touch the fiver panel.

my puget photoshop score is 900 while similar laptop with the same specs like the asus proart studiobook get 1150. (same specs)
on 3dmark I get around 11400. also low.

I wonder if it is normal or if I got a defective laptop/thermal.

thanks!!!

 

[unclewebb]

defective

My suggestion would be to return your laptop. The main problem seems to be poor design. If I spent good money for a laptop with a high end HX processor, I would not be willing to accept this level of performance out of the box.

The log file shows a smorgasbord of throttling. The CPU is reaching 100°C which causes thermal throttling. The cooling system is under designed. It is not able to manage the power consumption of this processor.

There is lots of current limit (EDP) throttling. Some manufacturers set low current limits so they can save money. Cutting corners 101.

The BD PROCHOT throttling is a big concern. With 12th and 13th Gen CPUs, manufacturers decided to lock out BD PROCHOT adjustment in the BIOS. That is why you can no longer use ThrottleStop to disable BD PROCHOT throttling. This option is grayed out for this reason. This type of throttling causes drops to 400 MHz which of course kills FPS when gaming.

If this is the best that Asus can do then you need to shop elsewhere. I have had excellent success with Asus desktop motherboards over the last 20 years. I am a big fan of that part of their business. If a laptop performs this poorly out of the box, it is not worth the hassle. Some of the latest throttling methods cannot be fixed. A laptop with inadequate cooling is never going to be able to perform up to its rated specs.

02:47:00

Just before 02:47:00 in the log file, the CPU is trying to run at up to 100W. Every time it does this, the CPU instantly overheats, reaches 100°C and thermal throttles. This is where you see a whole mess of throttling methods all working together trying to keep the CPU from having a melt down. Asus using a heatsink capable of dealing with a CPU that can run at 100W would have been a better idea than what they have done.

Soon after this, PL1 power limit throttling kicks in to limit the CPU to approximately 60W. Performance is reduced but at least the CPU is not rapidly alternating between full speed and 400 MHz. If this lower power limit gives you a more useable laptop then check the MMIO Lock box in the TPL window. Set the MSR PL1 and PL2 power limits to 60W or 65W. The cooling system can handle a 60W CPU. It definitely cannot handle a 100W CPU. You can check both Clamp boxes to make sure power consumption and temperatures do not get out of hand.

This is a Band-aid fix for a laptop with inadequate cooling. No point in having the power limits set to 157W like your screenshot shows. The cooling cannot handle that.

I have not bought a new laptop in many years. There are too many laptops with great specs on paper but under perform after you get them home. The marketing BS wears thin when the throttling begins.

Do some Google research. Some Legion Pro 7i users seem happy. The Legion Coldfront 5.0 cooling solution looks interesting. I do not need a new laptop but if I did, I might buy one of these.

Legion Pro 7i Gen 8 (16″ Intel) | AI-tuned Gaming Laptop RTX 4090

Achieve absolute victory with the AI-tuned Legion Pro 7i Gen 8 (16″ Intel) gaming laptop, equipped with 13th Gen Intel® Core™ processors and NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ GPUs.

www.lenovo.com

 

[Hollowcow]

My suggestion would be to return your laptop. The main problem seems to be poor design. If I spent good money for a laptop with a high end HX processor, I would not be willing to accept this level of performance out of the box.

The log file shows a smorgasbord of throttling. The CPU is reaching 100°C which causes thermal throttling. The cooling system is under designed. It is not able to manage the power consumption of this processor.

There is lots of current limit (EDP) throttling. Some manufacturers set low current limits so they can save money. Cutting corners 101.

The BD PROCHOT throttling is a big concern. With 12th and 13th Gen CPUs, manufacturers decided to lock out BD PROCHOT adjustment in the BIOS. That is why you can no longer use ThrottleStop to disable BD PROCHOT throttling. This option is grayed out for this reason. This type of throttling causes drops to 400 MHz which of course kills FPS when gaming.

If this is the best that Asus can do then you need to shop elsewhere. I have had excellent success with Asus desktop motherboards over the last 20 years. I am a big fan of that part of their business. If a laptop performs this poorly out of the box, it is not worth the hassle. Some of the latest throttling methods cannot be fixed. A laptop with inadequate cooling is never going to be able to perform up to its rated specs.


Just before 02:47:00 in the log file, the CPU is trying to run at up to 100W. Every time it does this, the CPU instantly overheats, reaches 100°C and thermal throttles. This is where you see a whole mess of throttling methods all working together trying to keep the CPU from having a melt down. Asus using a heatsink capable of dealing with a CPU that can run at 100W would have been a better idea than what they have done.

Soon after this, PL1 power limit throttling kicks in to limit the CPU to approximately 60W. Performance is reduced but at least the CPU is not rapidly alternating between full speed and 400 MHz. If this lower power limit gives you a more useable laptop then check the MMIO Lock box in the TPL window. Set the MSR PL1 and PL2 power limits to 60W or 65W. The cooling system can handle a 60W CPU. It definitely cannot handle a 100W CPU. You can check both Clamp boxes to make sure power consumption and temperatures do not get out of hand.

This is a Band-aid fix for a laptop with inadequate cooling. No point in having the power limits set to 157W like your screenshot shows. The cooling cannot handle that.

View attachment 308645

I have not bought a new laptop in many years. There are too many laptops with great specs on paper but under perform after you get them home. The marketing BS wears thin when the throttling begins.

Do some Google research. Some Legion Pro 7i users seem happy. The Legion Coldfront 5.0 cooling solution looks interesting. I do not need a new laptop but if I did, I might buy one of these.

Legion Pro 7i Gen 8 (16″ Intel) | AI-tuned Gaming Laptop RTX 4090

Achieve absolute victory with the AI-tuned Legion Pro 7i Gen 8 (16″ Intel) gaming laptop, equipped with 13th Gen Intel® Core™ processors and NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ GPUs.

www.lenovo.com

Thanks so much for the great info!
I am very disappointed for a 2300 usd laptop.
Do you think there's a point asking for a replacement?
Maybe I got a bad sample?
Or should I just get a refund and wait for something better.

What I like about this laptop is the amazing screen, it is very color accurate which help me a lot when editing photos and videos, It's my job.
The resolution is a great balance between high resolution and playable AAA games with dlss 3.
It is also so much lighter then the legion, I had a Legion just before that one and while it seems to preform better it was horribly heavy, bulky and the screen was horrendous.

 

[unclewebb]

asking for a replacement

You can try asking for a replacement but I do not think it will make much of a difference. Thin and light laptops run hot. They typically do not have room inside for a big enough heatsink that is capable of cooling a CPU that can run at over 100W.

Did you try lowering both power limits to 60W or 65W like I suggested? This can help your laptop run at a more consistent speed with less episodes of severe throttling.

the screen was horrendous

Now that I think about it, the color accuracy of my old Lenovo laptop was terrible. I mostly used it plugged into an external monitor so I kind of forgot about that limitation.

I am very disappointed for a 2300 usd laptop.

That is why I am glad that I do not need a laptop. The laptop industry has been a mess for the last 15 years. I am not sure why it is so difficult to build something decent. A color accurate screen and a laptop that does not become a raging inferno or throttle city when trying to play a game seems like it should be simple for any manufacturer to build.

 

[Hollowcow]

I have tried to limit the pl1 and 2 to 65 and lock mimo as you said.
I then ran the TS bench on 960mb, the limits panel was blinking the same way with other edp, throttle and v max. im attaching the log file.
one thing Ive noticed that the fans werent crazy loud with these settings.
the score is 67.921 against 61.626 before this setting, not surfe what this score means.

 

[unclewebb]

Setting PL1 and PL2 to 65W is telling the CPU to power limit throttle. That might show up as either PL1 or PL2 lighting up red in Limit Reasons. Try to grab a screenshot if you see something else lighting up red under the CORE column. That is the important one.

The temperatures in the log file are not too bad. I was thinking about 65W for the CPU would be suitable for gaming. When playing a game, the Nvidia GPU is active which is going to be adding heat into your computer case. This will also heat up the CPU. I am not sure if your laptop uses a shared heatsink for the CPU and GPU or if these two are separate. Shared heatsinks make the combined heat of the CPU and GPU even worse.

The TS Bench results show the amount of time it took to complete the test. Less time is a faster CPU. More time to complete means the CPU is running slower. I would use a separate test like Cinebench when stress testing. The TS Bench is mostly something convenient to create some heat and put a load on the CPU.

65W only allows your CPU to run fully loaded at about half of its rated speed. That is kind of sad. That confirms that a heatsink only capable of dissipating 65W of heat is not nearly enough cooling for your CPU. Try playing a game at 65W and see how that goes. Games do not fully load the CPU so maybe you can get away with a few more watts without a meltdown. Run another log file while gaming.

Clearing the V-Max stress box in the FIVR window can help get rid of VMAX throttling.

 

[Hollowcow]

Thanks!
just tried playing again and here is the log file.
there were shutters during the game and the fans were loud as before.\
look around 9:55 AM
The V max option is greyed out.
What is vmax throttling btw?

I wonder if the AMD 7450hx is better and more efficient.

 

[PowerThrottle]

It seems like you're experiencing Electrical Design Point (EDP) throttling. Of course, I'm sure your Power Limit 4 and IccMax values are optimized. This issue arises due to a poorly designed system. Your manufacturer might have aimed for a budget-friendly approach. I recommend using higher-priced systems like the HX series. Otherwise, you'll likely encounter such problems. It appears to be something like Max VR Throttle. It's not easy to eliminate this throttle. Perhaps with an unlocked BIOS. In situations like this, I suggest considering companies like MSI and Lenovo. Lenovo is quite proficient in design matters.

 

[Hollowcow]

It seems like you're experiencing Electrical Design Point (EDP) throttling. Of course, I'm sure your Power Limit 4 and IccMax values are optimized. This issue arises due to a poorly designed system. Your manufacturer might have aimed for a budget-friendly approach. I recommend using higher-priced systems like the HX series. Otherwise, you'll likely encounter such problems. It appears to be something like Max VR Throttle. It's not easy to eliminate this throttle. Perhaps with an unlocked BIOS. In situations like this, I suggest considering companies like MSI and Lenovo. Lenovo is quite proficient in design matters.

What is the hx series?
My cpu model has hx in the end.
I need a laptop with a high res screen and color accuracy, that's why I chose this model which has an amazing oled panel with accurate colores and is 2000x3200 pixels.
I have to be able to edit my photos and videos (my work)
aside gaming.

The rog strix are heavy and bulky and the screen are not at the same level. Though they have better cooling

 

[PowerThrottle]

What is the hx series?
My cpu model has hx in the end.
I need a laptop with a high res screen and color accuracy, that's why I chose this model which has an amazing oled panel with accurate colores and is 2000x3200 pixels.
I have to be able to edit my photos and videos (my work)
aside gaming.

The rog strix are heavy and bulky and the screen are not at the same level. Though they have better cooling

Yes, I'm talking about your CPU series. Unfortunately, the device you purchased according to your needs is exposed to an irreparable issue. If I were to answer your question, you have acquired a faulty device. Personally, I would recommend looking into series like the MSI Creator if your budget allows. Other than that, if you decide to stick with this device, lowering the voltage would be a better option to achieve better performance.

 

[Hollowcow]

I don't know how to lower the voltage, it is locked on ts and Intel extreme utility.
I purchased from Amazon I will try a replacement and see if it's any better.

 

[PowerThrottle]

I don't know how to lower the voltage, it is locked on ts and Intel extreme utility.
I purchased from Amazon I will try a replacement and see if it's any better.

If you go with MSI, by the way, you can easily perform this voltage reduction process as well.

 

[Denver]

I'm honestly pretty sure that in the last few years, something has happened to Asus' assembly line(Cost cutting???) and all of their products (and services/support) have visibly declined in both quality and durability, to the point that I can only recommend that you do not buy anything from this brand.

And no, the 7945Hx(Dragon Range) is not efficient. It's a rebranded desktop CPU (based on chiplets) and can't lower idle consumption like a monolithic CPU, a 7840HS(Phoenix) should be the most efficient option in terms of consumption and temperatures.

 

[dnm_TX]

@Hollowcow yes,your CPU is i9-13980HX but you mistyped it in your first post and everyone here had to guess.
Anyway,the spec on your laptop are impressive: https://www.asus.com/us/laptops/for-creators/vivobook/vivobook-pro-16x-oled-k6604/
Cooling wise,if ASUS did Liquid Metal on the CPU you might need to open it up and reapply it cause they never do a good job and usually the LM(due to the extra amount applied then what't needed) slides around the die and leaves the die dry with no means to transfer the heat fast.
Also,even though your CPU is HX i'm pretty sure that your BIOS is locked so find a way to unlock it,this way you can undervolt which will decrease the temps as well.

 

[PowerThrottle]

I'm honestly pretty sure that in the last few years, something has happened to Asus' assembly line(Cost cutting???) and all of their products (and services/support) have visibly declined in both quality and durability, to the point that I can only recommend that you do not buy anything from this brand.

And no, the 7945Hx(Dragon Range) is not efficient. It's a rebranded desktop CPU (based on chiplets) and can't lower idle consumption like a monolithic CPU, a 7840HS(Phoenix) should be the most efficient option in terms of consumption and temperatures.

Yes, Asus used BD PROCHOT in their 10th Gen TUF series. It generally lost its performance. By the way, HP is the same. I got an OMEN the other day to try. It gives Max VR Throttle even in daily usage. I couldn't exceed 55W in stress testing. By the way, even with the NVIDIA GPU not under load, I couldn't exceed 55W. Isn't it incredible?

@Hollowcow yes,your CPU is i9-13980HX but you mistyped it in your first post and everyone here had to guess.
Anyway,the spec on your laptop are impressive: https://www.asus.com/us/laptops/for-creators/vivobook/vivobook-pro-16x-oled-k6604/
Cooling wise,if ASUS did Liquid Metal on the CPU you might need to open it up and reapply it cause they never do a good job and usually the LM(due to the extra amount applied then what't needed) slides around the die and leaves the die dry with no means to transfer the heat fast.
Also,even though your CPU is HX i'm pretty sure that your BIOS is locked so find a way to unlock it,this way you can undervolt which will decrease the temps as well.

Actually, the issue here is not heating. It doesn't really heat up the system. Reducing voltage in this case would only improve performance rather than lowering temperatures.

 

[Hollowcow]

So should I get the same model replaced and see maybe Thers an improvement?

Otherwise what msi mkodel would you pick as I need a high res screen with color accuracy and good coverage of Adobe rgb.

Thanks!.

 

[dnm_TX]

Actually, the issue here is not heating. It doesn't really heat up the system.

Well...let me quote the BOSS here.It can't be more clear then that:

The log file shows a smorgasbord of throttling. The CPU is reaching 100°C which causes thermal throttling. The cooling system is under designed. It is not able to manage the power consumption of this processor.

 

[PowerThrottle]

So should I get the same model replaced and see maybe Thers an improvement?

Otherwise what msi mkodel would you pick as I need a high res screen with color accuracy and good coverage of Adobe rgb.

Thanks!.

I didn't understand the first paragraph. My English is not very good, could you please write it more clearly?

I believe MSI Creator is good.

Well...let me quote the BOSS here.It can't be more clear then that:

How do you decide who the BOSS is? Who can claim that I am not the BOSS? Do you know me, do you know my knowledge? I highly doubt it. Everyone expresses their thoughts. There is a serious EDP issue in the system. 'Thermal Throttle' cannot manifest itself much. Actually, let them come. I would like to discuss and share information.

 

[dnm_TX]

Another crazy one. I'm out

 

[PowerThrottle]

Another crazy one. I'm out

There's no need for that from you right now, in my opinion. We are acquainted with Unclewebb, but he might not recognize me as we have a different interaction. He surely possesses incredible knowledge, but we certainly are not someone to be underestimated. Dealing with all of a country's Throttle issues alone is no small feat.

 

[aytace87]

@Hollowcow i have the same laptop.
I had also used several laptops before I decided on the ASUS (Legion i7 Pro with the 4090, Acer Predator helios 16...). I understand your point of getting a device with a great display with enough performance.

Unfortunately, your laptop is not a defective device
I have the same issues, but like i mentioned in an other post, setting the PL1 und PL2 to 85watts will help a lot. Especially when gaming.

The cooling system is only designed for a combined 150 watts, as asus advertises itself.

Setting this PL1/PL2 values i am having great gaming experience. (Cyberpunk, WZ, Hogwarts....)

The 4070 never draws over 90 watts and the cpu levels off at 60 watts in games.

 

[Hollowcow]

Hey guys, just opened the laptop and noticed Thers is oil or something on some ofthe heat pipe.
Maybe one of the heat pipe is broken?

I'm ataching a picture.

 

[aytace87]

@Hollowcow

it is oil that leaks from the thermal pads/paste. It's absolutely common and nothing to worry about. its non conductive.

 

[Hollowcow]

OK I changed the ram and now the screen is off and nothings happens when I turn it on. There is power but no display

 

[aytace87]

pretty sure that the moduls are not attached properly, just take them out and make sure that they are tight.