Blocking DLSS

[AusWolf]

Yes, they have their full support, a statement that conveniently came after the game had gone gold and no further changes would be made in time for the prelaunch window offered to Premium buyers. Also, release the sponsored game with DLSS and watch AMD not working with you again. After all, the "polite" request was summarily ignored... sure, probably wouldn't happen if Bethesda said no, but that's because their games are popular and sought after, and they can get a deal elsewhere as well.

But for the small developer, that's as good as a "you're not doing it if you value the privileged relationship you have with this IHV". And I have a hunch that Bethesda chose to go along with it because it seems they had actual AMD engineers working on this game's graphics engine, without whose support they likely could not have shipped the game on time.

Honestly, they deserve no benefit of doubt. Treat AMD like the ruthless 200 billion dollar corporation they are. They do not deserve this darling treatment.

That's speculation.

I must agree. When was the last time that AMD was first to market with a staple feature? Tessellation with the HD 5870? Many will point to Mantle, but Mantle was released on very few games and removed from AMD's own drivers before the supported hardware's lifespan was up. It may have given a leg to develop Vulkan on, I guess that is commendable enough, but we're so far away from that, not to mention the ratio of D3D12 to Vulkan games is still insanely wide and only widening.

Both companies market their own technologies, it's the natural order of things. Besides, as much as AMD tried to sell tessellation as their own, it has historically run better on Nvidia, if I remember it right.

Why people are shocked and/or surprised now, I don't know.

 

[Hyderz]

rgardless technology bottom line is buy which ever is good value/performance ...
im sure later on starfield will officially implement dlss after timed exclusive is finished...

 

[Dr. Dro]

That's speculation.


Both companies market their own technologies, it's the natural order of things. Besides, as much as AMD tried to sell tessellation as their own, it has historically run better on Nvidia, if I remember it right.

Why people are shocked and/or surprised now, I don't know.

Sure, but would you sponsor someone who has marketed your competitor's product again? It's called biting the hand that feeds, and exceptionally few companies in this world are in position to defy a sponsorship from a $200 billion Fortune 500 megacorporation. Bethesda is amongst the exceptional few with the financial leverage for it (particularly being backed by Microsoft), but the technical know-how of IHV graphics engineers may have been the final obstacle for it. Developers and engineers affiliated to AMD are simply not implementing and testing NVIDIA technology on any project they work on.

...and yes, the GTX 480 was stronger than both the HD 5970 and two 5870s in CF at it. Remember the drivel about Crysis 2 water conspiracy?

 

[AusWolf]

Sure, but would you sponsor someone who has marketed your competitor's product again?

Marketing and implementing are two different things.

It's called biting the hand that feeds, and exceptionally few companies in this world are in position to defy a sponsorship from a $200 billion Fortune 500 megacorporation. Bethesda is amongst the exceptional few with the financial leverage for it (particularly being backed by Microsoft), but the technical know-how of IHV graphics engineers may have been the final obstacle for it. Developers and engineers affiliated to AMD are simply not implementing and testing NVIDIA technology on any project they work on.

That's speculation again.

...and yes, the GTX 480 was stronger than both the HD 5970 and two 5870s in CF at it. Remember the drivel about Crysis 2 water conspiracy?

Yep, I remember it well. There are shady practices everywhere. That's capitalism. Ultimately, what works, works, what doesn't work, doesn't work. If you want FSR, you enable it. If you don't, you don't. If you prefer DLSS, and the game supports it, then use it. If it doesn't, then don't. Moaning about it won't change the nature of capitalism, just like moaning about how bad AMD is at ray tracing won't change a thing, either. We're talking about entertainment here, a hobby, and a highly optional extra within it, not your yearly heating bill increase, so just get on with it.

 

[Dr. Dro]

I suppose time will be the judge... I'm hoping we get an official implementation down the road though, I'm not paying this dude on Patreon or downloading a cracked mod for some fake frames, hurts my pride enough I'd even consider using such a thing

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I suppose time will be the judge... I'm hoping we get an official implementation down the road though, I'm not paying this dude on Patreon or downloading a cracked mod for some fake frames, hurts my pride enough I'd even consider using such a thing

DLSS mod is free on nexus mods takes about 30 seconds to install looks better than both native and FSR it's really a no brainer.

 

[wolf]

Seems pretty obvious to me, on the balance of everything we've seen and heard so far on the subject, that at some level AMD is doing this. I could care less that it's not 100% irrefutably proven beyond any doubt, and reading the mental gymnastics denying it or worse, defending it, is just sad.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Seems pretty obvious to me, on the balance of everything we've seen and heard so far on the subject, that at some level AMD is doing this. I could care less that it's not 100% irrefutably proven beyond any doubt, and reading the mental gymnastics denying it or worse, defending it, is just sad.

My issue with both sides is dependent on what coolaid the user decides to drink they act like one company is less anticonsumer than the other. They both do pretty shitty things from releasing products with almost no generational progress to gate technologies to specific generations etc.

 

[lexluthermiester]

and only Nvidia is doing everything to innovate PC gaming for awhile now

Utter moose-muffins! Nvidia has contributed sure, but those efforts do not amount to "everything". Far from it.

 

[AusWolf]

My issue with both sides is dependent on what coolaid the user decides to drink they act like one company is less anticonsumer than the other. They both do pretty shitty things from releasing products with almost no generational progress to gate technologies to specific generations etc.

Exactly. Nobody is a saint, especially not a for-profit company. If you've got DLSS, use it. If you haven't, there's FSR. There's no point playing the butthurt kid over the fact that capitalism works the way it does.

Personally, I don't even get what the big deal over DLSS/FSR is, unless we're talking about the select few who bought a bazillion $ 4K monitor only to realise that your bazillion $ graphics card can't provide a fluent experience on it in the latest games. If that's you, I'd say it's all on you.

 

[JustBenching]

Maybe AMD is being unfair to everyone by offering Starfield with their products. I still cannot get over how overblown and foolish this argument is. Let's step back a second and look at CP 2077. There was no FSR support when that Game launched but DLSS was in there, now you have Path Tracing in CP2077 for Nvidia GPUs. Even though there is no GPU that does not support FSR.

FSR did not exist back when cyberpunk was released bro. AMD fans need to stop this nonsense defense of this company when it's doing these things, jesus christ.

So thanks to AMD's business practices, we have no choice but to use a technology that every GPU supports instead of one that only works on Nvidia? Oh my god, what a terrible world we live in! #firstworldproblems

I also remember the good old "The way it's meant to be played" days when GameWorks technologies ran like ass on ATi/AMD cards and not a single soul moaned about it.

I'm not saying that such shady practice should be encouraged (if it's true anyway, which I still don't believe), only that it's way overblown.

People keep going back to this argument but it's absolutely nonsensical. The whole "gameworks" thing, you realize you had options in the game and in the AMD control panel to turn off those settings? You could handle tesselation on the driver level on AMD and jut turn the whole thing off. I was an amd user back then, the whole gameworks thing did not affect me the SLIGHTEST. I could just turn everything off. AMD blocking DLSS does in fact affect me.

 

[lexluthermiester]

AMD blocking DLSS does in fact affect me.

True. This is the same kinda of nonsense as "exclusives" for Playstation, XBox, Steam, Epic, etc... It sucks, so don't reward such draconian behavior with a purchase. Vote with your wallet. Doing so does make a difference.

 

[JustBenching]

As we can see, only sony exclusives that are amd sponsored have DLSS. Probably SONY doesn't want to play amd's games, they just release their games on PC to sell, not to promote AMD. Everything else, it's blocked. There is an nvidia sponsored game that....doesn't have DLSS but has fsr indeed, lol

 

[Frick]

Exactly. Nobody is a saint, especially not a for-profit company. If you've got DLSS, use it. If you haven't, there's FSR. There's no point playing the butthurt kid over the fact that capitalism works the way it does.

Personally, I don't even get what the big deal over DLSS/FSR is, unless we're talking about the select few who bought a bazillion $ 4K monitor only to realise that your bazillion $ graphics card can't provide a fluent experience on it in the latest games. If that's you, I'd say it's all on you.

If $500 GPUs struggle to keep to 60fps @ 1080p I'd say those things are the future. No GPU can do Starfield @ 1080p/144fps native (as per this video anyway). Higher resolution monitors becomes the norm, especially if you look at larger monitors. My 4k monitor was cheaper than the 1440p monitors I was looking at.

 

[lexluthermiester]

As we can see, only sony exclusives that are amd sponsored have DLSS. Probably SONY doesn't want to play amd's games, they just release their games on PC to sell, not to promote AMD. Everything else, it's blocked. There is an nvidia sponsored game that....doesn't have DLSS but has fsr indeed, lol

Not saying it's right, totally agree with you. Just saying it happens and we should be voting with our wallets.

 

[JustBenching]

Not saying it's right, totally agree with you. Just saying it happens and we should be voting with our wallets.

Wasn't directed at you.

Personally I wan't both FSR and DLSS on games, cause I have both an nvidia card and an amd desktop. If nvidia starts following in amd's footsteps and blocks FSR, im kinda screwed

 

[lexluthermiester]

Wasn't directed at you.

Oh no worries. It's all good. See, I'm an NVidia guy and really like the RTX lineup, but I also have a Radeon card and an Intel ARC card. I try to stay impartial and recognize the progress and achievements of all companies when they make good products. You bringing up this blocking of DLSS in Starfield is a good thing as that practice is not cool and not acceptable. Public awareness is always a positive thing.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Exactly. Nobody is a saint, especially not a for-profit company. If you've got DLSS, use it. If you haven't, there's FSR. There's no point playing the butthurt kid over the fact that capitalism works the way it does.

Personally, I don't even get what the big deal over DLSS/FSR is, unless we're talking about the select few who bought a bazillion $ 4K monitor only to realise that your bazillion $ graphics card can't provide a fluent experience on it in the latest games. If that's you, I'd say it's all on you.

That depends, there are multiple games I hate the native taa in and also don't care for how the majority of games look like with no AA. So for me in those scenarios DLSS is a godsend.

A lot of games I use DLSS in I don't actually need the extra performance it's just to my eyes the image quality is superior to native taa.

The nice thing at least with starfield is the FSR is at least on par or comparable to the taa at 4k with 75% scaling in games like RE4 and Starwars JS the FSR is atrocious.

 

[Dr. Dro]

DLSS mod is free on nexus mods takes about 30 seconds to install looks better than both native and FSR it's really a no brainer.

The free version doesn't support frame generation. It's basically a demo for the full thing on his Patreon

 

[JustBenching]

The free version doesn't support frame generation. It's basically a demo for the full thing on his Patreon

It's almost tragic that a random guy can implement it in just a couple of hours / minutes.

I have an amd desktop pc and 3 amd laptops, regretted buying every single one of them with these bs they are pulling. They aren't seeing my money again.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

The free version doesn't support frame generation. It's basically a demo for the full thing on his Patreon

I don't like how frame generation is implemented via mods the quality is poor DLSS on the other hand works just fine. So at least for me it's a non issue. I haven't liked frame generation in the majority of the official games either though.

 

[Frick]

It's almost tragic that a random guy can implement it in just a couple of hours / minutes.

I have an amd desktop pc and 3 amd laptops, regretted buying every single one of them with these bs they are pulling. They aren't seeing my money again.

So out of principle you're not going to buy any more computers?

 

[oxrufiioxo]

It's almost tragic that a random guy can implement it in just a couple of hours / minutes.

I have an amd desktop pc and 3 amd laptops, regretted buying every single one of them with these bs they are pulling. They aren't seeing my money again.

Honestly I'm tired of both companies behavior.

So out of principle you're not going to buy any more computers?

He was burned by amd not officially supporting B450/X470 B350/X370 at first apparently and has been bitter ever since...

 

[JustBenching]

So out of principle you're not going to buy any more computers?

I'm buying Intel nvidia from now on. Problem solved.

 

[GerKNG]

So thanks to AMD's business practices, we have no choice but to use a technology that every GPU supports instead of one that only works on Nvidia? Oh my god, what a terrible world we live in! #firstworldproblems

let me correct that:
So thanks to AMD's business practices, we have no choice but to use a significantly worse technology in every way that every GPU supports and block the implementation of a better one besides AMDs own, because AMD is butthurt because nobody buys their crappy RDNA3 GPUs. Oh my god, what a terrible world we live in! #firstworldproblems