Blocking DLSS

[Mussels]

Some people wanted evidence. John Linneman twitted a couple of hours ago that he personally has talked to 3 devs that admitted they were forced to remove the already implemented DLSS from their game due to sponsorship. Now we need to find out which company he is talking about

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1698408451158737063

It's always upto the devs.
FSR is cross platform and cross-OS, while DLSS is windows exclusive - why wouldn't they just focus on FSR?


The game's clearly half-cooked and unoptimised, they didn't have time to finish what they already had so they definitely didn't have time to add in DLSS and other tech.

 

[JustBenching]

It's always upto the devs.
FSR is cross platform and cross-OS, while DLSS is windows exclusive - why wouldn't they just focus on FSR?


The game's clearly half-cooked and unoptimised, they didn't have time to finish what they already had so they definitely didn't have time to add in DLSS and other tech.

Time? What time? A guy did it from his basement in a single day. That's bs frankly. What about the other 22 out of 27 amd sponsored games that don't have dlss? What about the games that already had dlss but was removed after amd sponsorship?

 

[oxrufiioxo]

It's always upto the devs.
FSR is cross platform and cross-OS, while DLSS is windows exclusive - why wouldn't they just focus on FSR?


The game's clearly half-cooked and unoptimised, they didn't have time to finish what they already had so they definitely didn't have time to add in DLSS and other tech.

I agree Ubisoft, Capcom, and Bethesda don't need amd money and Sony even when sponsored by amd Chooses to implement both at the same time what a developer chooses to implement is on them if they don't want to implement Nvidia technologies that's on them

It kinda surprises me how entitled the fanboys can be but I guess if you look at other entertainment industries it's not surprising. The crying about DLSS or FSR is just the latest

Let's be real Nvidia could easily afford to out spend amd on all these games with sponsorships ensuring their hardware performs best but guess what they don't give two $h!+$ about gamers and rather focus on AI.

 

[nguyen]

I agree Ubisoft, Capcom, and Bethesda don't need amd money and Sony even when sponsored by amd Chooses to implement both at the same time what a developer chooses to implement is on them if they don't want to implement Nvidia technologies that's on them

It kinda surprises me how entitled the fanboys can be but I guess if you look at other entertainment industries it's not surprising. The crying about DLSS or FSR is just the latest

Let's be real Nvidia could easily afford to out spend amd on all these games with sponsorships ensuring their hardware performs best but guess what they don't give two $h!+$ about gamers and rather focus on AI.

But crying about industry-wide price to perf stagnation is not entitled at all

Seriously dude you are practising whataboutism very hard

 

[JustBenching]

I agree Ubisoft, Capcom, and Bethesda don't need amd money and Sony even when sponsored by amd Chooses to implement both at the same time what a developer chooses to implement is on them if they don't want to implement Nvidia technologies that's on them

It kinda surprises me how entitled the fanboys can be but I guess if you look at other entertainment industries it's not surprising. The crying about DLSS or FSR is just the latest

Let's be real Nvidia could easily afford to out spend amd on all these games with sponsorships ensuring their hardware performs best but guess what they don't give two $h!+$ about gamers and rather focus on AI.

They don't need the money, yet they accept them? How does that make sense to you?

It's not just about the money. Amd actively promotes these games, both on their events, their website and their drivers. Lots of people will see these ads.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

But crying about industry-wide price to perf stagnation is not entitled at all

Seriously dude you are practising whataboutism very hard

I'm just pointing out the nvidia pricing a terrible 8GB card at 400 usd isnt any better or worse than AMD asking nicely for FSR to be prioritized both are crappy but I'd prefer Nvidia not release shite.

 

[nguyen]

I'm just pointing out the nvidia pricing a terrible 8GB card at 400 usd isnt any better or worse than AMD asking nicely for FSR to be prioritized both are crappy but I'd prefer Nvidia not release shite.

Oh so you are entitled to dictating out how company should or shouldn't sell their products now?

What about rx7600 then? good product at 270usd?

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Oh so you are entitled to dictating out how company should or shouldn't sell their products now?

If Nvidia can get away with it good for them I'm all for these companies being successful doesn't make it any less garbage. Same with the 4080 if 1200 works and they sell a billion of them good for a nvidia.

Us 4090 owners are part of the problem. We buy whatever regardless of how terrible a value it is.

Same with developers not supporting nvidia if that's what works for them life goes on.

 

[Vayra86]

Do we really, really, really need more proof than Frank Azor saying that money exchanges hands and that they're politely asked not to implement competing technologies?

Sponsorships aren't new, in fact it is Nvidia spending huge bags of money to get DLSS implemented in the first place, alongside their RT project. GPP... Nvidia Gameworks & Ubisoft... we have a shiny list of Nvidia pushing AMD out of the game left and right, and its very easy to see Nvidia is the most frequently repeated offender here.

Joke's on the idiots that keep thinking proprietary tech needs to appear in every product they purchase.

The fun fact is that FSR is hardware agnostic, and DLSS is not. And that's the defining factor here. You get an AMD sponsored game with AMD technology, just the same as we have gotten a few thousand games with Nvidia sponsoring, an Nvidia Gameworks logo at the front of it, and bullshit like Hairworks inside of it at launch, or Turf Effects, or or or or or ad infinitum. Another fun fact is that FSR also delivers its benefits on Nvidia, while Hairworks was designed to run like shit on AMD, much like anything else that used Tesselation back then.

This is a back at-ya from AMD, and I kinda love it, because it painfully uncovers how Nvidia gamers are tied to DLSS for palatable performance in their minds.

Reflect, honestly. The game nor the business is gonna change from what it has been doing for the last 30 odd years. Perhaps the consumer needs to adjust expectations hm? If you don't want this behaviour in the market, perhaps you shouldn't be buying from the majority market share vendor that has basically made it common practice.

TL DR We gamers shouldn't be taking sides, we should push both Nvidia AND AMD to get together and embrace a single framework for this technology and stop using it to 'compete' over our backs. Any other stance is honestly just complete and utter one-sided bullshit.

 

[nguyen]

If Nvidia can get away with it good for them I'm all for these companies being successful doesn't make it any less garbage. Same with the 4080 if 1200 works and they sell a billion of them good for a nvidia.

Us 4090 owners are part of the problem. We buy whatever regardless of how terrible a value it is.

Terrible value? last I remember lots of people were saying 4090 were terrific value at 1600usd and it makes the rest of the the lineup look bad LOL

Anyways whatever products Nvidia are selling, are offering people more choices, whereas AMD is taking away choices, very big difference and cannot be included in your whataboutism

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Terrible value? last I remember lots of people were saying 4090 were terrific value at 1600usd and it makes the rest of the the lineup look bad LOL

Anyways whatever products Nvidia are selling, are offering people more choices, whereas AMD is taking away choices, very big difference and cannot be included in your whataboutism

DLSS isn't required to run games and it never should be a requirement to get good performance are you trying to say Nvidia's cards are so bad they require upscaling also it's not like FSR doesn't work on Nvidia as much as I hate FSR I'm not going to cry about DLSS not being included I'm not that entitled.

Obviously the only people who care about this stuff are fanboys for one of these companies.

My preference is that they have all 3 technologies but if they only have one FSR is the smarter choice.

 

[Vayra86]

I suppose time will be the judge... I'm hoping we get an official implementation down the road though, I'm not paying this dude on Patreon or downloading a cracked mod for some fake frames, hurts my pride enough I'd even consider using such a thing

Honestly its stuff like this that reinforces me in my thought I don't even want to feel like I need DLSS/FSR or anything of the sort. This sounds like a loser being on crack cocaine, 'must have my fix' or game no good. Damn have we strayed from what actually matters when you game on a PC, is what I think then.

 

[nguyen]

DLSS isn't required to run games and it never should be a requirement to get good performance are you trying to say Nvidia's cards are so bad they require upscaling also it's not like FSR doesn't work on Nvidia as much as I hate FSR I'm not going to cry about DLSS not being included I'm not that entitled.

Obviously the only people who care about this stuff are fanboys for one of these companies.

My preference is that they have all 3 technologies but if they only have one FSR is the smarter choice.

But you were totally entitled about how some Nvidia GPU you don't care about should be cheaper? weird.

And you are writing in a thread that is about blocking DLSS , saying a whole lot of whataboutism

 

[oxrufiioxo]

But you were totally entitled about how some Nvidia GPU you don't care about should be cheaper? weird.

And you are writing in a thread that is about blocking DLSS

Me thinking they are a terrible value means absolutely nothing just like you crying about DLSS.

Honestly its stuff like this that reinforces me in my thought I don't even want to feel like I need DLSS/FSR or anything of the sort. This sounds like a loser being on crack cocaine, 'must have my fix' or game no good. Damn have we strayed from what actually matters when you game on a PC, is what I think then.

Somtimes I feel like I'm in the twighlite zone reading how nvidia fanboys can't play games without DLSS or at least acting like they can't....

 

[nguyen]

Me thinking they are a terrible value means absolutely nothing just like you crying about DLSS.

I guess you didn't get the memo

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/repla...-166600-dls-dlss-3-5-avail-better-than-fsr-2/

Bethesda knew they had to get DLSS support somehow, and using Puredark Mod was the way to circumvent shady contracts

 

[JustBenching]

Sponsorships aren't new, in fact it is Nvidia spending huge bags of money to get DLSS implemented in the first place, alongside their RT project. GPP... Nvidia Gameworks & Ubisoft... we have a shiny list of Nvidia pushing AMD out of the game left and right, and its very easy to see Nvidia is the most frequently repeated offender here.

Joke's on the idiots that keep thinking proprietary tech needs to appear in every product they purchase.

The fun fact is that FSR is hardware agnostic, and DLSS is not. And that's the defining factor here. You get an AMD sponsored game with AMD technology, just the same as we have gotten a few thousand games with Nvidia sponsoring, an Nvidia Gameworks logo at the front of it, and bullshit like Hairworks inside of it at launch, or Turf Effects, or or or or or ad infinitum. Another fun fact is that FSR also delivers its benefits on Nvidia, while Hairworks was designed to run like shit on AMD, much like anything else that used Tesselation back then.

This is a back at-ya from AMD, and I kinda love it, because it painfully uncovers how Nvidia gamers are tied to DLSS for palatable performance in their minds.

Reflect, honestly. The game nor the business is gonna change from what it has been doing for the last 30 odd years. Perhaps the consumer needs to adjust expectations hm? If you don't want this behaviour in the market, perhaps you shouldn't be buying from the majority market share vendor that has basically made it common practice.

TL DR We gamers shouldn't be taking sides, we should push both Nvidia AND AMD to get together and embrace a single framework for this technology and stop using it to 'compete' over our backs. Any other stance is honestly just complete and utter one-sided bullshit.

That's not a very objective view of things. Let's start with the whole "game works" myth.

Game works is nvidia paying developers to add features to their games. Those features worked better on nvidia cards for whatever reason, doesn't really matter. I was an amd user back then, and that whole game works thing did not affect me the slightest. Why? Cause I could turn off that damn thing, if you had an amd card back there you would know there was a specific tessellation option right on the drivers. Game works had 0 impact on the performance of my multiple amd gpus that I had back there.. It's impact is of course vastly exaggerated regardless, no game worked 50% better on an nvidia card compared to their amd counterpart like we are seeing happen in starfield

AMD on the other hand is doing the exact opposite. They are paying developers to not add or even REMOVE features that are already there and that does affect me as an nvidia user.

There are nvidia sponsored games that have Fsr and don't have dlss at all!! 21 out of 25 nvidia sponsored games to in fact have FSR, and the latest version at that. Not even the amd sponsored games have the latest fsr implementation to that high degree. Nvidia sponsored games have more amd features than amd sponsored games do. Also performance on those games is equal between nvidia's and amds cards. Cyberpunk, the poster child of nvidia sponsorship runs like a dream on amd cards (of course, excluding rt which amd doesn't have the hardware for). That is NOT usually the case with amd sponsored games, which a lot of the time run like complete crap on nvidia (I can name you a bunch of games besides starfield).


Lastly out of the 27 amd sponsored games, only 5 have dlss, and those are all the Sony exclusives.

 

[Assimilator]

If this is true, it's reprehensible behaviour from AMD.

And no AMD fanboys, paying a game dev company to PURPOSEFULLY REMOVE an already implemented feature (allegation against AMD regarding DLSS and FSR) is NOT the same as paying a game dev company to implement a NEW feature (NVIDIA with GameWorks, PhysX, etc.). The former is clearly anti-competitive behaviour while the latter is not, so if you attempt to equivocate the two you are lying, plain and simple.

FSR is cross platform and cross-OS, while DLSS is windows exclusive - why wouldn't they just focus on FSR?

For the love of $diety$, STOP with this "cross-platform is important" non-argument. The only game development company that gives a flying f**k about non-Windows (including console) platforms is Valve and that's only so they can get more people to buy overpriced Steam Decks - I don't even consider them game devs anymore.

For companies that actually make games, Windows will remain the standard for the foreseeable future due to marketshare. On top of that we have the GPU marketshare, which (excluding consoles) is majority NVIDIA. Thus the economic reality is that it makes the most sense to implement and support DLSS, and the big game developers like BethSoft are nowadays driven purely by economics.

So please, stop pretending that it makes more sense to implement FSR over DLSS. Because in the eyes of the companies that have to implement it, it does not. And that's the only argument that's relevant here; from an openness and compatibility standpoint FSR is superior, but economically it's not and it won't be until or unless AMD does something to make it more attractive than DLSS.

And before the AMD fanboys accuse me of being an NVIDIA fanboy (again) for stating basic facts - I would much rather that NVIDIA and Intel fold their proprietary upscaling implementations into FSR so that everyone can benefit from a single gold standard upscaler that is consistent across all GPUs and platforms. But again, this goes against the reality that DLSS and XeSS provide economic advantages for the companies who created them, thus as much as I may wish for it to happen - it almost certainly won't, until or unless AMD is able to make FSR the market leader, and sadly I don't see that happening anytime soon.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I guess you didn't get the memo

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/repla...-166600-dls-dlss-3-5-avail-better-than-fsr-2/

Bethesda knew they had to get DLSS support somehow, and using Puredark Mod was the way to circumvent shady contracts

I mean people are here crying about DLSS not being included when the 3 major games recently all have excellent mods for it.... I guess implementing a mod that takes 1-2m is too complicated.

 

[JustBenching]

DLSS isn't required to run games and it never should be a requirement to get good performance are you trying to say Nvidia's cards are so bad they require upscaling also it's not like FSR doesn't work on Nvidia as much as I hate

In fact with how horrible nvidia cards perform in starfield, yes they need dlss to run properly. My 4090 drops to below 50 at 4k native lol

 

[nguyen]

I mean people are here crying about DLSS not being included when the 3 major games recently all have excellent mods for it.... I guess implementing a mod that takes 1-2m is too complicated.

The people crying about DLSS not being included was the reason why DLSS mod came out before the game was launched, mind you

But yeah let continue with your whataboutism

 

[oxrufiioxo]

In fact with how horrible nvidia cards perform in starfield, yes they need dlss to run properly. My 4090 drops to below 50 at 4k native lol

Yes but a mod that takes all of 2m to implement gives us that....


I've said this before developers should be embarrassed that modders are implementing a better DLSS than their native FSR it does need to stop.

 

[Vayra86]

That's not a very objective view of things. Let's start with the whole "game works" myth.

Game works is nvidia paying developers to add features to their games. Those features worked better on nvidia cards for whatever reason, doesn't really matter. I was an amd user back then, and that whole game works thing did not affect me the slightest. Why? Cause I could turn off that damn thing, if you had an amd card back there you would know there was a specific tessellation option right on the drivers. Game works had 0 impact on the performance of my multiple amd gpus that I had back there.. It's impact is of course vastly exaggerated regardless, no game worked 50% better on an nvidia card compared to their amd counterpart like we are seeing happen in starfield

AMD on the other hand is doing the exact opposite. They are paying developers to not add or even REMOVE features that are already there and that does affect me as an nvidia user.

There are nvidia sponsored games that have Fsr and don't have dlss at all!! 21 out of 25 nvidia sponsored games to in fact have FSR, and the latest version at that. Not even the amd sponsored games have the latest fsr implementation to that high degree. Nvidia sponsored games have more amd features than amd sponsored games do. Also performance on those games is equal between nvidia's and amds cards. Cyberpunk, the poster child of nvidia sponsorship runs like a dream on amd cards (of course, excluding rt which amd doesn't have the hardware for). That is NOT usually the case with amd sponsored games, which a lot of the time run like complete crap on nvidia (I can name you a bunch of games besides starfield).


Lastly out of the 27 amd sponsored games, only 5 have dlss, and those are all the Sony exclusives.

Boohoo AMD such bad Nvidia so nice. Irrelevant post. You're still crying about the loss of DLSS, nothing changed here. We know where your loyalty is at by now
The fact still is you can use FSR on your Nvidia card so you have the exact same featureset as an AMD user here, whereas on the Gameworks comparison an AMD user is left out of features Nvidia does offer. And you speak of objectivity? Hilarious.

 

[JustBenching]

For the love of $diety$, STOP with this "cross-platform is important" non-argument. The only game development company that gives a flying f**k about non-Windows (including console) platforms is Valve and that's only so they can get more people to buy overpriced Steam Decks - I don't even consider them game devs anymore.

For companies that actually make games, Windows will remain the standard for the foreseeable future due to marketshare. On top of that we have the GPU marketshare, which (excluding consoles) is majority NVIDIA. Thus the economic reality is that it makes the most sense to implement and support DLSS, and the big game developers like BethSoft are nowadays driven purely by economics.

So please, stop pretending that it makes more sense to implement FSR over DLSS. Because in the eyes of the companies that have to implement it, it does not. And that's the only argument that's relevant here; from an openness and compatibility standpoint FSR is superior, but economically it's not and it won't be until or unless AMD does something to make it more attractive than DLSS.

And before the AMD fanboys accuse me of being an NVIDIA fanboy (again) for stating basic facts - I would much rather that NVIDIA and Intel fold their proprietary upscaling implementations into FSR so that everyone can benefit from a single gold standard upscaler that is consistent across all GPUs and platforms. But again, this goes against the reality that DLSS and XeSS provide economic advantages, thus as much as I may wish for it to happen - it almost certainly won't, until or unless AMD is able to make FSR the market leader, and sadly I don't see that happening anytime soon.

87% of the steam user base that has at least minimum specs have an rtx card which can run dlss

Boohoo AMD such bad Nvidia so nice. Irrelevant post. You're still crying about the loss of DLSS, nothing changed here. We know where your loyalty is at by now

If stating facts is crying then yes, I'll accept it, I'm a huge crybaby

 

[Vayra86]

If stating facts is crying then yes, I'll accept it, I'm a huge crybaby

Stating facts is one thing, applying the right context & perspective is another, and that's where objectivity happens if you do it right.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

87% of the steam user base that has at least minimum specs have an rtx card which can run dlss


If stating facts is crying then yes, I'll accept it, I'm a huge crybaby

My only issue is Nvidia fanboys are acting like we are blocked from playing a game if you don't like DLSS not being included vote with your wallet it's not complicated.