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VA monitor smearing? Fixed with a driver/colour profile!

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Seems so, enjoy!

Okay, i have no idea if it's normal that when i set sRGB from OSD colors change a lot of tone, red is more like bland orange... AOC answered they have no remote solution but i don't wanna send monitor back to Amazon since i'm not sure it's weird.
 

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AOC doesn't have any driver/ICC available at least on my AG275QZN's page...
Try the LG one attached to the first post. Gigabyte and Kogan didn't have profiles for me either, which is why i tried it and then included it in the thread here.

Okay, i have no idea if it's normal that when i set sRGB from OSD colors change a lot of tone, red is more like bland orange... AOC answered they have no remote solution but i don't wanna send monitor back to Amazon since i'm not sure it's weird.
Ironically on my displays the "normal" colour profile is like 99% SRGB accurate while the "SRGB" profile was disgustingly inaccurate with a huge red tint

I have the same measuring tool @Inle used in the TPU monitor review here
Cooler Master Tempest GP27Q Review - Mini-LED HDR Gaming Excellence - Picture Quality, Uniformity & Calibration | TechPowerUp

TL;DR:
All monitors have weirdness they try to hide and cover up (like IPS, or excessive curving of panels to hide red shift at the edges) - on this display, the wrong contrast setting just *breaks* it with incorrect colours and smearing, with none of the other common fixes people talk about doing a single thing to help.


This one has no SRGB mode, they expected the profile to fix it or something (It's not terrible for an uncalibrated display, setting it to warm 1/warm2 was closer to SRGB)

default: w/ LG profile
1679040779875.png




for random comparison the "FPS" mode is utter trash and looks horribly washed out in person
did they decide shooters just dont need green or something??
1679040952695.png






This display has some *real* weirdness with the contrast option, where altering contrast changes the colour profile AND can cause seizure inducing flickering (like when using the snipping tool)
66-69 contrast is a nightmare for this being caused randomly by 2D apps like office/edge etc.

70 contrast:
adjusting red to 100 for example would tint the rest of the display red, but the sensor cant see it on the white testing patch. It's hiding certain tones to keep white "pure"

It's like they mixed-and-matched parts from different displays together with minimal testing and the components used here can just send *way* too high voltages to the backlight/pixels here, because they just lose touch with reality. White and black stay pure, no matter what changes you set
1679041204716.png



This monitors oddity lies with its contrast setting - at the higher default of around 70+, colour controls just do nothing.
66-70 adds flickering, and crazy smearing.
Epilepsy levels of flickering, i'm not even going to video that bullshit. The windows snipping tool resulted in black and white flickering lines at 67-69 contrast.

80 brightness and 65 contrast tho? She's happy.
1679042522641.png




Bonus:
Slow motion video of this panel at 70 contrast (the default) - this does *not* occur at 65 contrast. Weird AF display bug.
This is the actual VA smearing and weirdness, just because this displays got effed up OSD controls and defaults - that should be one solid dot of each colour, near a solid line.
Not... this.

Again, adjusting the contrast fixes this. It's really weird, and why this particular display has such mixed reviews from users - the wrong contrast setting results in everything breaking.
1679042756206.png

 

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OEM's should list more specs to be honest, plus newer manufacturing processes make it possible for certain specs these days, better to not hide them.
Getting the right PPI is a good start, nice to see AOC list that spec now, ideally you want just above 100 pixels per inch.

Screen size to resolution will have different PPI's, for example 2K on a 60 inch screen will have a lower PPI than 8K @ 60 inch.
Nice to see a VA panel close to around the specs of my old TN panel @ 1ms, no blurring but it did need sync.
 

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Correction: now down to 64 contrast. Seizure mode activated on me in borderlands today when opening an inventory menu

At first this simply looks like the regular issues you get with recording an LCD with the visible scanline, except opening the OSD removes it temporarily and lowering the contrast by one makes it vanish with the OSD closed

 
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Are you using sync and what sync technology are you using? Sorry if you already said.
 

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Are you using sync and what sync technology are you using? Sorry if you already said.
At present, Vsync+Gsync (Freesync compatible displays)
I also use Fast Vsync where possible, but that does not work in DX12 titles - hence my focus on universal solutions (Including modifying the freesync ranges, refresh rate overclocks, etc)

The best possible setup is with high refresh displays and FPS caps at a nice fraction of that refresh rate (1/2 or 1/4), but these 4K 60Hz displays have pretty limited VRR ranges - at least with 65Hz OC and fast vsync i can get 130FPS in older titles (input latency is halved even if i cant see every frame) and keep things consistent with 63FPS in DX12 titles (15.87ms, avoiding any doubling/tripling from Vsync limits)

WIthout blurbusters i'd never have known *why* it worked so well on my 165Hz displays, but they explained that part really well:
A 165Hz display that supports LFC (low framerate compensation) will double or triple frames until they're in the supported range. So, 15 or 30FPS goes to 60Hz, etc by doubling the frames (or more) - because they still use the timing of 60Hz (16.6ms) even when the signal coming in is half that speed (30fps/33.2ms) - they condense it down and send it faster (quick frame transport) with the hope that the next frame is ready before it needs to be doubled, so it can 'recover' in half the time if possible

How that works within the VRR range is different - and why i accidentally lucked onto a ~80FPS cap working so well in many games on my 165Hz display.
Basically, since they can vary the refresh rate what they're really doing is just holding onto that frame until it's been told the next one is ready - then it blanks its pre-arranged time, then it loads the new frame.

The key here is that if you do something it can math easily like 60FPS on 120Hz or 82FPS at 165Hz, you get that benefits of LFC/QFT using that free time so you never get microstutters or extra pre-rendered frames, but you also get twice the blanking time reducing motion blur (This only works on modern displays, but anything with true Gsync or Freesync premium will support it)

Many high end monitors like the Gsync ultimate displays include this as BFI (blank frame insertion), but we can damn well create it ourselves with just an FPS cap on modern displays

60FPS at 120Hz VRR gives you:

1. The input latency of 120Hz
2. Double the time for that frame to arrive (halves the chance of micro stuttering)
3. That also reduces motion blurring/smearing (if all the frames are on time)
3 half the GPU performance required/half the wattage required

That little bit of advice they talk about mostly being used for console emulation with titles that are locked to 24/30/60FPS and such, but the key here is that even at 60FPS,120Hz/240Hz/360Hz displays etc are NOT a waste as long as you have VRR enabled


Without VRR, you run into situations like 120Hz, (8.3ms) and 90FPS (11.1ms) where they dont math neatly into each other - so the GPU/monitor has to wait that extra 2.81ms before it can send the image for every single frame - but in a situation where you have pre-rendered frames (GPU at 100%, CPU idle), that could end up waiting two frames (8.3 x2) and that 2.81ms delay for a total delay of 19.41ms just that one frame This is likely a common cause of microstuttering.

This is where Vsync off people get stutter removal advantage, but also get the tearing. In this situation, you're better off with an FPS cap (or even lowering your refresh rate) that maths out better with the frame rate/refresh rate combo so the monitor doesnt have those large delays.

FPS caps also help with render-ahead qeues when the CPU is faster than the GPU, since you can can to 118FPS at 120Hz and your worst-case scenario is a mere 0.14ms delay per frame vs two rendered ahead frames (8.3ms x2) adding 16.6ms when Vsync is reached

(120FPS at 120FPS is buttery, but 120FPS at 165Hz with no VRR may be stuttery)






Oh god i've filled my brain so much on this topic i can smell colours, hear VA panel smearing and fart vertical blanking signals

I made a visual so i could help understand it myself as i went along (was also discussing it with my brother) so there may be idiot goofs in this due to copy-pastes etc, but should be solid enough for the basics
Display techs.png




I'm so sorry for your eyes and brains
This is the level of depth my research went into, to try and increase the blanking times to reduce any and all VA monitor smearing and understand why some aspects were the same between my 60Hz and 165Hz displays, and some were not
 
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I have found brightness at 45 (if 50 is factory setting) and contrast at 63 (if 100 is factory setting) works for all my monitors, Philips, Samsung, LG without any issues; good colors, tones.
Overdrive is to prevent ghosting but doesn't it just push way too much current through pixels, could burn them up... Just leave it factory and adjust brightness and contrast for simplicity if that's enough.
 
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My brightness is way lower, it"s 17, and contrats 50, because higher will be too much, it's AOC VA.

Overdrive can be deactivated most time, true.
 

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My brightness is way lower, it"s 17, and contrats 50, because higher will be too much, it's AOC VA.

Overdrive can be deactivated most time, true.
Depends on the display - reading Rtings reviews they can cover two almost identical monitors, but find some need "off" at 60Hz and 120Hz, but "normal" at 144Hz and then the faster settings help them advertise response times for marketing purposes, but are useless for the average user

This of course is problematic when used with variable refresh rate technology

Monitors are a PITA. I can spend $1k to get a monitor thats the same as what i have now, except a faster refresh rate - but the Rtings results show it's got the same input latency, so its hard to justify.
 

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Depends on the display - reading Rtings reviews they can cover two almost identical monitors, but find some need "off" at 60Hz and 120Hz, but "normal" at 144Hz and then the faster settings help them advertise response times for marketing purposes, but are useless for the average user

This of course is problematic when used with variable refresh rate technology

Monitors are a PITA. I can spend $1k to get a monitor thats the same as what i have now, except a faster refresh rate - but the Rtings results show it's got the same input latency, so its hard to justify.

@Mussels Were you able to solve the "Smearing" problems? I have the LG 32UN550 and I see a lot of smearing
 
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Try searching for it on LG's site, there has to be one and it should prevent smearing from occurring.
 

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Try searching for it on LG's site, there has to be one and it should prevent smearing from occurring.
I will search. I'm think I have too much smearing. I don't know if this is something that could be solved by RMA.
the photo does not show the problem well


monitor3.jpg


lg 32un550

 
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@Mussels
What do you think about monitor overclocking. I have an LG that is 144Hz, but it has an "overclock" setting to make it 165Hz, would that shorten it's lifespan ? Thanks.
 

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@Mussels Were you able to solve the "Smearing" problems? I have the LG 32UN550 and I see a lot of smearing
I could reduce them, but not remove them.

I upgraded to a high end IPS panel in the end, but the colour profile and correct overdrive settings did better than halve the smearing on all my VA displays (I have 6 through the house for various systems)

@Mussels
What do you think about monitor overclocking. I have an LG that is 144Hz, but it has an "overclock" setting to make it 165Hz, would that shorten it's lifespan ? Thanks.
Do it all the time, it has nothing to do with lifespan. Done wrong it'll harm image quality and cause flickering and that's about it.
 

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Placebo? I have tried many VA monitors, driver or not, they smear more especially in darker tones

Just scrolling down on a homepage with dark theme causes it, white text on dark background = horrible on VA mostly

Some are worse than others tho, but not even high refresh rate is going to stop this

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/ls81ey

@Mussels
What do you think about monitor overclocking. I have an LG that is 144Hz, but it has an "overclock" setting to make it 165Hz, would that shorten it's lifespan ? Thanks.
Overclocking mode varies per monitor, some can do 165 Hz just fine others will have flicker and you might have to drop to lower refresh rate

A friend of mine has an old 100 Hz IPS with 120 Hz OC Mode, he can only run it at 110 Hz for example, goes out of range sometimes and flicker at 120 :D

If you can run it and it looks good, use it but check for frameskipping -> https://www.testufo.com/frameskipping
 
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I wouldnt bother making help articles for something that didn't actually work.

I did slow motion videos of the effect, that borderlands wiki makes it extremely obvious it's reduced.
They just aren't clear enough to demonstrate here when they're ~100FPS videos of a 165Hz display, it's really obvious in person.

It's in the OP, it went from this

1696568204515.png


to this
1696568227441.png


The profile brightens the colours to reduce the smearing, but in a way that my camera saw it brighter than my eyes did.
 
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I wouldnt bother making help articles for something that didn't actually work.

I did slow motion videos of the effect, that borderlands wiki makes it extremely obvious it's reduced.
They just aren't clear enough to demonstrate here when they're ~100FPS videos of a 165Hz display, it's really obvious in person.

It's in the OP, it went from this



to this


The profile brightens the colours to reduce the smearing, but in a way that my camera saw it brighter than my eyes did.
He clearly didn't read the whole thread, I even post a video of almost nonexistent ghosting on black background with white text to prove it.
 
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