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Subtle input lag both mouse and keyboard computer just feels 'off'

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I've had a problem with my newly built PC for around 2 years+ now. The computer just feels 'off', as though there is some kind of very subtle bottlenecking occurring. Also, I'm getting input lag on mouse and keyboard (i.e. there will be the occasional no click registration on mouse or keyboard but there may also be double clicks or keypresses and the mouse feels very off - like floaty/heavy/inconsistent). Everything else on the computer is fine, the machine loads up quickly, I can play games and watch films (though I notice a bit of stuttering on the films) but I will get very subtle stuttering in all games (and desktop) but apart from that no issues, audio is fine as is the running of normal programs. I mean if you weren't a gamer and didn't know any different you'd think there was nothing wrong but once you start playing games it becomes quite noticeable - hard to aim (with floaty mouse --> mouse feels like I'm dragging it across glass, fluctuating constantly between heavy to light movements, so it feels more heavy and sluggish than it should be - not light, crisp and responsive like normal along with bouts of micro-stuttering (esp when panning camera) and the occasional micro-spastication of animations (particularly in sport games) etc.

My specs:
- PSU = Corsair 1600i
- Mobo = MEG X570S Ace Max
- Memory = 32GB G.Skill Trident Z Royal Elite DDR4-3600MHz
- GFX = RX6900XT
- HDD = Samsung SSD
- Water cooled




I've listed some of what I've tried below..

- Reinstalled windows
- Deleted mouse files
- Tested new hardware (tested everything one by one) - except Ram (though I did buy 2x16GB sticks of same ram and nothing changed so I sent them back but I haven't tried different speed ram)
- Went through everything in bios - including flash etc etc
- Updated all drivers and even tried rolling back to previous drivers and older
- Mouse accel input code etc (accel 0/1 nonsense) + removed mouse drivers
- Tried new wall sockets + grounding
- Tested all Nvidia GFX settings - screen res, fixed Frame rate etc ..you name it I tried it
- Hpet timing and all that other fluff
- New keyboard and mouse (though that sort of falls under hardware)
- Windows optimization
- Checked performance, load, monitoring, heat, latency -- everything checks out fine

Problem still persists.

Now the thing is, trying the above things, particularly the bios and nvidia settings, do change the feel of the computer and the feel how games play (limiting frame-rates, v-sync, g-sync, reduce input lag option, etc etc) but the problem is it's only masking the issue because although the game changes slightly in some way the main problem is still underneath which is frustrating because you can achieve smoother outcomes but the input lag (keyboard and mouse and floaty mouse feel) the subtle stuttering/bottleneckning will still very much be there.


If anyone knows a solution or anything that helped please let me know because I want to take a hammer to my PC and I'm extremely depressed after spending a lot of money on creating this monster setup and its not even playable. Oh I also tried installing windows 7, same problem.


P.S. What makes it more frustrating is that to the naked eye everything appears fine, when my friend comes over he thinks nothing is wrong, but he's not a gamer. I also took it to get looked at by a computer shop but again they weren't gamers and they told me everything was fine, and that's the thing everything does seem fine (applications open as they should, videos play, music plays, everything works as normal) but when you move the mouse quickly and try to be precise it feels floaty and in games there feels like a micro-bottlenecking happening somewhere. Losing my mind here :'(

P.P.S. This problem has persisted through several complete builds.


Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
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First I want to say that you are not imagining this as I encountered that exact problem couple times too. In my cases it was either monitor/cable or gpu problem.
Pretty sure you would have looked into them before, but yet again check your monitor settings. Both in monitor OSD and windows & Radeon software. Make sure they have set to correct refresh rates. And definitely check if problem still persists on low resolution (1080p) with something like 60hz refresh rate. O desktop, if it doesn't feel laggy/floaty anymore it's more likely to be a monitor/cable/port problem. Next check the cable, and use different ports on monitor and gpu (if possible) and try to switch display port/hdmi to see if anything changes.

Persisting between builds usually means it's not a driver issue so I won't go into that.

Just to check again, if you could post Cpuz (with mainboard and memory screens.) and gpuz (would be better if it's on load (game, furmark etc.)) screens we might be able to see if something is off. Maybe also include hwinfo screens too, both idle and load.

Oh and also tell what's your cpu (seems you forgot) and monitor too.
 
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First I want to say that you are not imagining this as I encountered that exact problem couple times too. In my cases it was either monitor/cable or gpu problem.
Pretty sure you would have looked into them before, but yet again check your monitor settings. Both in monitor OSD and windows & Radeon software. Make sure they have set to correct refresh rates. And definitely check if problem still persists on low resolution (1080p) with something like 60hz refresh rate. O desktop, if it doesn't feel laggy/floaty anymore it's more likely to be a monitor/cable/port problem. Next check the cable, and use different ports on monitor and gpu (if possible) and try to switch display port/hdmi to see if anything changes.

Persisting between builds usually means it's not a driver issue so I won't go into that.

Just to check again, if you could post Cpuz (with mainboard and memory screens.) and gpuz (would be better if it's on load (game, furmark etc.)) screens we might be able to see if something is off. Maybe also include hwinfo screens too, both idle and load.

Oh and also tell what's your cpu (seems you forgot) and monitor too.
Thanks for the reply.

Just want to say my FPS is on point, my temps all under what they should be so all good there ...like I said it all looks fine but the computer is just off. Hard to explain, it's like that feeling when you've installed the wrong driver or have a slight bottleneck somewhere. The floaty mouse is soooooo subtle that you only really see it when flicking the cursor quickly from side to side, but you can feel it and the amount of time in games that I have to keep repressing buttons that didnt register as well as try and wrestle with the mouse for precision movements is just soul destroying. Is why I mainly play turn-based games now.
 
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What CPU are you on? Its the one thing you don't mention :D

Other than that... you have probably gone this way, but perhaps not with the emphasis I intend: Run everything at stock. No CPU/RAM OC. Get that fresh Windows install in on a newly partitioned drive, connect just mouse/kb and no other USB stuff, get your necessary drivers ONLY and fire up a game that exhibits the behaviour clearly. Then try a different mouse and kb. The next step I would say is looking at cables - display cable, connector for USB on the mobo to the case and case cabling, if possible rule those out next. If that doesn't fix, I'd suspect the board - or the GPU, so swap the GPU first for something else, even something much less powerful shouldn't give you huge input lag.

I've honestly NEVER had to do anything exotic to my system to just get the expected responsiveness out of it. Ever. Less is more - monitoring apps, overclocks, all sorts of background tasks they can all add latency.
 
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You're not crazy but, be prepared to be called such.
'Seen these kinda 'spooky' issues pop up a lot, over the years. More-often-than-not, devolving into Flung Accusations and Pedants, insisting you're describing something impossible.

Good Luck.


If I were experiencing this kinda issue again, I'd research and pickup a 220-240VAC True Sine Wave* Inverter-Charger and a couple cheap AGMs or (BMS'd) LiFePo4s.
Basically, it'll act as a 'power conditioner' and UPS. (and allow you to 'test' things, literally off-the-grid)
I would not 'cheap out'; at least from cursory research, something 'decent' would be $300+ +batteries.

If you find a unit w/ a different line frequency than your local mains it will work fine dedicated to your rig, as long as all your power adapters and devices are 100-250VAC 50/60hz 'universal input'.

related:
I don't know if you're on NorthAmerican 120VAC 60hz or not but, when I moved my main rig to 'full-phase' 220-240VAC 60hz, I stopped having crashes in brownouts from wind/load, and I *swear* there's something better about the experience.
I cannot/couldn't afford a big enough UPS, or even (my suggested) Inverter-Charger. However, It was fairly-easy and extremely affordable to disconnect my Cadet Heater(s), and put a 'in-wall A/C receptacle' in the Heater Controller's place.
I'm not necessarily recommending this as a solution; it's always safer (and more legally wise) to have a certified electrician do such work.

*APFC-equipped PSUs may/may not be 'fine' w/ "modified sine" or "square wave" inverters.
(cheapie) non-sinewave inverter often have underwhelming EMC (Electro-Magnetic Compatibility), and may cause accelerated aging in PSUs.
 
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I don't know if you're on NorthAmerican 120VAC 60hz or not but, when I moved my main rig to 'full-phase' 220-240VAC 60hz, I stopped having crashes in brownouts from wind/load, and I *swear* there's something better about the experience.
I have been wondering about that, but I don't know about any brownouts causing mouse issues. More likely, would be a BSOD error or other types of errors or solid hard crashes, if the PSU can't keep secondary voltages in spec. However, I do wonder if I'm getting brownouts a lot here. It all seems fine, but it's sounding like my brother-in-law is possibly going to have the service upgraded to 200 amperes.

Yes, I bet that your PSU is even less-stressed now. But my family will think that I'm insane to even talk about this, LOL!

But, I don't know if we have 240V or 208V. (208V is from a "wye" transformer, IIRC)
 
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What CPU and monitor?

Had a similar issue, changed power plan to max performance and it was slightly better. Guessing it's your cpu or monitor settings though.
 
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- Hpet timing and all that other fluff
Spread Spectrum too?
I've never personally seen Spread Spectrum be responsible for this kinda issue but, theoretically could be related.

Old old article, but it gives a QRD on the 'feature'
As you can imagine, even the smallest variation in a clocking signal can be enough to create data transfer errors. The fundamentals of overclocking demand the cleanest, purest signal possible, which is why spread spectrum should always be disabled unless you have a good reason to enable it.
 
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Spread Spectrum too?
I've never personally seen Spread Spectrum be responsible for this kinda issue but, theoretically could be related.

Old old article, but it gives a QRD on the 'feature'
Spread spectrum helps with EMI related problems. Its actually default setting for 12th-14th gen Intel chips due to higher clocks and frequencies from RAM/PCI5.0. CPU-Z will report 99.76 BCLK if you have native spectrum enabled. Intel calls it SSC for spread spectrum clock.

A lot of brands offset the base setting by 0.25 in BCLK if using internal clock gen. Dedicated BCLK gen avoids it obviously. MSI is only brand that defaults properly to intel spec on lower end boards not using dedicated BCLK gen.

Wont matter here as OP is on AMD. He could try setting 99.80 BCLK. ASUS X570 boards used to default to this early on

Chances are input lag is lower than he's used to. A quick test would be setting mouse hz to a lower setting like 125-250hz to see if it "helps".


If youre on CABLE internet, try removing grounding post outside when its not storming out. This will also "help" with EMI related issues. High powered cable line passing through local grounding is sort of an issue IMO.

Fiber/5G home internet is only alt option to Internet cable EMI.

Low latency/high freq. hardware is susceptible to modern EMI issues. adding lag is the only "hotfix" I know of. IE.. you can power limit CPU to 60W.. and lower monitor brightness too.
 
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If youre on CABLE internet, try removing grounding post outside when its not storming out. This will also "help" with EMI related issues. High powered cable line passing through local grounding is sort of an issue IMO.

Fiber/5G home internet is only alt option to Internet cable EMI.

I know cable =/= to DSL, but Mussels has done 'mods' to his DSL service, with notable performance improvements.
Also, linked those efforts w/ the EMI 'angle':

Had an epihany in another thread


Short version, i use ferrite beads as 'common mode chokes' as to remove electrical noise on DSL lines (ADSL and VDSL) to boost internet speeds, they're a common (hah) component in these modems anyway, but you can simply fit bigger or better ones at different locations (like the wall socket your modems DSL cable comes from) and reduce that noise further

The thing is - that science could also work on a PC. Kinked power cables and sharp bends causes some of the electrical signal to either reflect slightly out of sync with the rest of the power, or even leave the cables as EMI - this simple explanation could be why some experience more issues than others, because of how their cables are laid out in their system

I found examples of people trying it in the past


Can someone who's experiencing issues get their hands on a ferrite choke large enough to clip onto their PCI-E power cables?

View attachment 290584View attachment 290585


This is an example of a single pass through that i used in one location, bypassing the need for a joiner cable and using the choke to catch EMI from a nearby power socket
Boosted speeds from 75Mb/s to 84Mb/s
It's no gigabit, but that's a solid improvement - and most came from the choke, as it was ~79Mb without it, on first attempt
View attachment 290586

This is one I did with more wrapping - the NBN (Aussie-wide internet installer, they do ALL of it) had documentation showing that for each extra wrap around you got 6x the noise reduction in the unwanted high frequencies (Left mine, right theirs)

View attachment 290587View attachment 290590


We can't do the multiple wraps with the thick cables we use for power in a PC, so the snap on type might be the best shot and an option that doesnt risk warranties at all

I believe @Mussels has some very solid reasoning.
If only, because I can remember every 'beigebox' of the 90s using those chokes on chassis-internal power lines.

OP might feel like, and be viewed as a mad man but,
I'd probably investigate and experiment with EMI/RFI 'mitigations'. Both, internal and external to the Chassis.
 
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Spread Spectrum too?
I've never personally seen Spread Spectrum be responsible for this kinda issue but, theoretically could be related.
I know that with first-gen Core i7 especially, I actually had a more snappy system after disabling EIST, C1E and the "turbo mode". I noticed Windows 7 back in late-December, 2017 seeming faster!
It think I actually got rid of some lag! (It was more likely with just EIST and C1E disabled.) I also disabled spread-spectrum, IIRC.
 
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I've had a problem with my newly built PC for around 2 years+ now. The computer just feels 'off', as though there is some kind of very subtle bottlenecking occurring. Also, I'm getting input lag on mouse and keyboard (i.e. there will be the occasional no click registration on mouse or keyboard but there may also be double clicks or keypresses and the mouse feels very off - like floaty/heavy/inconsistent). Everything else on the computer is fine, the machine loads up quickly, I can play games and watch films (though I notice a bit of stuttering on the films) but I will get very subtle stuttering in all games (and desktop) but apart from that no issues, audio is fine as is the running of normal programs. I mean if you weren't a gamer and didn't know any different you'd think there was nothing wrong but once you start playing games it becomes quite noticeable - hard to aim (with floaty mouse --> mouse feels like I'm dragging it across glass, fluctuating constantly between heavy to light movements, so it feels more heavy and sluggish than it should be - not light, crisp and responsive like normal along with bouts of micro-stuttering (esp when panning camera) and the occasional micro-spastication of animations (particularly in sport games) etc.

My specs:
- PSU = Corsair 1600i
- Mobo = MEG X570S Ace Max
- Memory = 32GB G.Skill Trident Z Royal Elite DDR4-3600MHz
- GFX = RX6900XT
- HDD = Samsung SSD
- Water cooled




I've listed some of what I've tried below..

- Reinstalled windows
- Deleted mouse files
- Tested new hardware (tested everything one by one) - except Ram (though I did buy 2x16GB sticks of same ram and nothing changed so I sent them back but I haven't tried different speed ram)
- Went through everything in bios - including flash etc etc
- Updated all drivers and even tried rolling back to previous drivers and older
- Mouse accel input code etc (accel 0/1 nonsense) + removed mouse drivers
- Tried new wall sockets + grounding
- Tested all Nvidia GFX settings - screen res, fixed Frame rate etc ..you name it I tried it
- Hpet timing and all that other fluff
- New keyboard and mouse (though that sort of falls under hardware)
- Windows optimization
- Checked performance, load, monitoring, heat, latency -- everything checks out fine

Problem still persists.

Now the thing is, trying the above things, particularly the bios and nvidia settings, do change the feel of the computer and the feel how games play (limiting frame-rates, v-sync, g-sync, reduce input lag option, etc etc) but the problem is it's only masking the issue because although the game changes slightly in some way the main problem is still underneath which is frustrating because you can achieve smoother outcomes but the input lag (keyboard and mouse and floaty mouse feel) the subtle stuttering/bottleneckning will still very much be there.


If anyone knows a solution or anything that helped please let me know because I want to take a hammer to my PC and I'm extremely depressed after spending a lot of money on creating this monster setup and its not even playable. Oh I also tried installing windows 7, same problem.


P.S. What makes it more frustrating is that to the naked eye everything appears fine, when my friend comes over he thinks nothing is wrong, but he's not a gamer. I also took it to get looked at by a computer shop but again they weren't gamers and they told me everything was fine, and that's the thing everything does seem fine (applications open as they should, videos play, music plays, everything works as normal) but when you move the mouse quickly and try to be precise it feels floaty and in games there feels like a micro-bottlenecking happening somewhere. Losing my mind here :'(

P.P.S. This problem has persisted through several complete builds.


Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Saw this post and none of the replies are really covering the more important issues right now, so here's some of the things to pay attention to in 2023 (I might have to make a dedicated thread since there's even more issues to cover really):

First section - Cables
-----------------------

1) HDMI vs displayport - displayport has slightly better frame delivery (smoothness) but responsiveness feels worse than DVI and HDMI (which both feel more similar to each other while displayport feels alien compared to the two). I think HDMI and DVI send everything on the fly while displayport uses some type of packetization system. The guy that runs the website Blurbusters knows a lot of technical stuff about monitors and says HDMI should be faster but not noticeable to human reflexes. To me it just feels like the controls are more dead in general on displayport, but it's possible I've just not found a high quality enough cable like I have for HDMI which brings us to the next subject. (oh, and you also need to have "content type reported to display" set to "desktop programs" in Nvidia control panel desktop color settings)

2) The cable itself - It's not a meme. Both cable quality and thickness actually matter. There's a pretty large difference in using a thin (30 AWG) vs thick HDMI cable (24-26 AWG). If you look at any technical literature for things like HDMI, you can tell the design specifications are running the cables practically to the breaking point. Then you have things like each internal cable bleeds interference onto the others causing the signals to arrive at different times creating skew. Whether it's just a resistance difference or skew prevention, I don't know. I just know you can feel a difference in a 26 and 30 AWG cable.

3) HDMI 2.0 vs 2.1 - might be anecdotal, might not, but I purchased a high end HDMI 2.1 cable and for some reason it felt massively worse than my 26 AWG HDMI 2.0 cable. Not sure if they're doing something weird with 2.1 cables but I tend to avoid them now. I've also purchased exotic 2.0 cables made of silver instead of copper and it made my movements all feel like they had an overshoot and I didn't like it. So things like resistance actually seem to do things in display cables while ultra-casuals or people that don't play games at all will claim it's impossible.

4) Some people will claim this is BS, but I think I've noticed a 'directionality' to how HDMI cables are built as well. As in plugging them in one direction will give different results from the other. I don't know if it's a polarity phenomenon, manufacturing issue, or other, but I've switched cables back and forth numerous times with my current cable and it seems to give better results in one specific direction. Some expensive vendors like this "Audioquest" brand even have arrows on the cables indicating which end should go to the monitor and which to the GPU. Then they also make 'one way' cables that claim to reduce interference as well. All I'm saying is that there's a lot more than meets the eye with cables and it's not a simple matter:



Monitors
----------
1) Brand - I've used a decent amount of monitors but not every brand like Gigabyte and MSI. In my experience, I noticed brands like Samsung and Dell tended to feel more normal while I didn't seem to like brands like LG at all. I remember seeing some pro player who bought like 10 monitors and came to a similar conclusion as me. There's a pretty good amount of options (some hidden, some not) in gaming monitors now so if the vendor doesn't expose the right ones or set up whatever hidden ones properly, you can see how this would be an issue. I play well with a 144hz Samsung but can't hit the side of a barn with a 240hz LG for instance. We're talking mega absurd difference in how each of the two monitors controls which just should not be the case, but it is.

2) Overdrive - Probably one of the bigger industry scams that exists. I've never used a single LCD where this did not have a detrimental effect on cursor movement. Every LCD I've used from Samsung TN panels, PLS, IPS, and my current Samsung VA all have better cursor movement with overdrive off. Might be worth having worse cursor movement and better pixel response to some people, but not me, so I've had this setting off for the last 20 something years on every monitor. And yes, I always check to see if there's a difference and it's always the exact same result with each monitor. The motion clarity difference is noticeable (not enormous, but it's there), but I've never had a monitor that was usable with it on and not usable with it off.

3) Again, another setting people will claim is voodoo, but specifically with Nvidia cards, HDMI "limited" feels a bit snappier than HDMI "full" in the control panel. Whether limited sends less data or it's just the more native HDMI spec, I don't know what the mechanical cause is, but it feels a bit snappier. Only problem is it's very difficult to use this setting since you need a monitor that supports toggling between HDMI full/limited, and most don't. Not sure how this plays out on the AMD side.

Memory latency
------------------
Your memory settings have an enormous effect on cursor movement as well as there being a large difference in single rank vs dual rank. Single rank feels faster but less in control, while dual rank cursor movement feels slower and more controlled. In the DDR3 days I didn't like how single rank felt at all and felt it was too slippery, but in DDR4 and 5 it might be more of a preference thing. Timings also play a huge role where I always prefered how 7-7-7-20 1333mhz felt over something like 9-9-9-24 1600mhz in the DDR3 era. I've never since found a setting as good as 7-7-7-20 for DDR4 or 5. Something about that was always good for me where changing it to even something like 7-7-7-21 was worse.


A real shocker (or maybe not) - Networking effects on cursor movement
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some casuals will claim this is voodoo, but I promise you it's not. If you have a combination modem and wifi router, all those billion settings on the router actually affect your mouse movement. Things like "readyshare" for media sharing and all the others. If you just want a single setting to test this theory, one of the more egregious ones is "Airtime Fairness." Toggle that on and off and you'll notice an immediate effect where having it on the cursor is slower.

So what is the solution to this network idiocy for a gaming PC? You can either attempt to figure out the golden settings for your router (of which none might exist), or you can buy something like an Arris modem at Walmart (that has no options at all and no wifi) with two ethernet ports on the back and run one of those cables to your PC and run the other cable to a wifi router, I guess. The only problem here is you need TWO simultaneous IP's to do this, and Comcast will likely refuse to give you another. I think it's possible to pay a small fee to get a 2nd one if you use a Comcast business internet plan (they're not even really more expensive), but they might refuse to do it still anyway.

Intel vs AMD
--------------
It's not big news that Ryzen 1+2 are not going to be good for latency orientated people. Ryzen 3 is supposedly much better and even beats Intel in inter-core latency now, but there's too many other external factors to flat out say one would be better or worse for gaming. Each one probably uses a different Microsoft provided USB chipset driver and things like that. All it takes is somebody not doing a good job on that to ruin the entire system for gaming. I'm curious to how Ryzen 3 feels compared to Intel nowadays, but I can't really justify setting $600-1000 on fire to find out it's worse than the systems I already have.

I'm surprised there's no reputable person in the entire universe with attention to detail who can say "I play better on Intel than Ryzen 3" or vice versa. Since Intel started to implement the same chiplet and latency problems AMD had of Ryzen 1+2, I imagine this is probably an objective thing now and not preference where one is going to be less worse than the other in terms of how moving a mouse around on the screen feels.


This one will piss you off if you spent a lot of money on an aftermarket card
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I used to mine digital crapcoins and had like 30 GPUs at one time. I noticed the 'founder' edition, aka direct from the manufacturer had better mouse movement than the 3rd party cards. Some brands being worse than others, but the founder edition was always superior. I think they put the A-team engineers on the founder cards while giving them a year or two to design the thing while they have the fly by night engineers on aftermarket cards with dumber goals (infinite power phases), short time span, bad BIOS's, numerous fans creating harmonic issues, etc, etc.

Power supplies and power strips
-----------------------------------
I'm not really a big PSU guy. It's kind of a weird field where components are always changing even on the same model, but anecdotally the power supplies WITHOUT caps inside the cables feel better to me. I also noticed a similar thing with power strips where for some reason the cheaper power strip with no internal 'conditioning' seemed to provide a more direct cursor movement. Sounds good, right? Having a bunch of caps all over the place "conditioning" your power. Apparently it's not, and I'm guessing having these things all over the place creates resistance issues and you basically just want only the giant capacitors in your PSU and that's it.


Web browser - a ridiculous rabbit hole
------------------------------------------
Another setting people will claim is voodoo, but it's not. If I load up an old build of Chromium which I know is good (857942), then delete it and load up a newer version, you can tell cursor movement differs a lot from the last web browser you've had open, like the OS somehow gives browsers too much leeway to fool with system integration. It's the same thing if you load up say, Windows 8.1, open Internet Explorer and turn off "Smooth scrolling." It then feels like that browser setting alters system-wide mouse movement when whatever the browser is doing should be entirely contained and sandboxed into the browser itself instead of screwing with the operating system.

If you want to test this theory yourself, just delete your Chromium settings in users/usernamehere/AppData/local folder. Now open chromium (settings and bookmarks will all be default) and do something like delete that default "chrome webstore" link on the new tab page. You should notice mouse movement instantly becomes faster after deleting that link for no reason. I have no idea why or how browsers and their settings have this type of impact on global system performance when virtually no other apps do things like this. If I change a setting in "Borderlands 3" it does not alter my system-wide mouse movement. Browsers should be the same way. If I was king I would send whoever is responsible for this to prison.


More BS in PCs that makes you want to give it up and buy a console instead
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you plug in your motherboard USB headers (i.e. for front panel USB access), usually you can feel your mouse movement stiffen up some potentially being a bit less responsive. Is it the cables not being shielded acting as antennas? Is it just the cables suck and create some type of grounding issue? Don't know. Don't care. I just notice they tend to be a problem so I stopped plugging them in.


Non-deterministic mouse sensitivity
---------------------------------------
When you click the DPI button on your mouse to toggle through settings it will feel completely different each time you arrive back at the same 800 DPI or whatever you started at. I first noticed this back in the Logitech Avago 3090 days where I attempted to utilize both 400 and 800 DPI in games and noticed if I toggled between the two settings the mouse would feel off until I did a system reboot. But once rebooted that 800 DPI tended to feel the same each time. That was on mice with no internal memory.

Now, fast forward to mice with internal memory and you have the same problem but instead of the mouse feeling normal after reboot, your 800 DPI now feels different than before as if you've gained or lost sensitivity. Some type of issue with bit flipping on crappy internal memory? No idea. I just notice toggling through DPI now is not deterministic and your mouse will feel different each iteration of 'toggling' DPI.

Ferrite chokes
----------------
These seem to actually do things. I had a day one launch edition Logitech G402 for instance and for some reason it controlled a lot better than the two other later units I had. After taking them apart I noticed the original had this ferrite choke built inside the mouse itself around the USB cord while they were omitted from later units. I suspect this is why the original felt better. Companies like Endgame mice seem to utilize a generous portion of ferrite chokes as well and their mice tend to behave in a very predictable way compared to many others.

MBR vs GPT booting
-------------------------
There's a difference between the two and you'll have to try both to see which you like better. I've always preferred MBR vs GPT - UEFI on Win 8.1 for instance. Then for some reason if you turn off CSM while booting 'pure' UEFI mouse control goes to utter crap. I believe Intel is supposedly removing CSM soon as well (if they haven't already).
 
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Solaris17

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Spread Spectrum too?
Yes as an old schooler I was scrolling just to post.

disable spread spectrum (should be off by default) and disable HPET in bios. If you can’t change HPET in bios there are windows commands you can run to decouple.

DONT misunderstand. HPET is GOOD and SHOULD be used. But some motherboards cheap out on the timer. And everything you do relies on time EVERYTHING so HPET can do some really weird bad things to your PC if it’s not keeping track.
 
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Yes as an old schooler I was scrolling just to post.

disable spread spectrum (should be off by default) and disable HPET in bios. If you can’t change HPET in bios there are windows commands you can run to decouple.

DONT misunderstand. HPET is GOOD and SHOULD be used. But some motherboards cheap out on the timer. And everything you do relies on time EVERYTHING so HPET can do some really weird bad things to your PC if it’s not keeping track.
Except you cannot on modern intel CPUs (12th to 14th gen). It's default ON per intel spec.. This is due to EMI frequency concerns of high clock CPU/RAM/PCI5.0.

Mainly impacts boards that have internal clock gen built into CPU. ASUS and GIGABYTE just offset the BCLK by 0.25.

  • ASUS low end boards were updated to only offset. ROG Maxmimus boards allow "Spread spectrum" to be enabled.
  • GIGABYTE "Spread Spectum" setting just defaults to intel setting and deletes the default 0.25 offset.
  • MSI leaves official SSC spec by default, but gives you the option of 100mhz LOCK ON. Which is the same offset ASUS and GIGA use.
  • I have no clue what ASROCK does.

If the board has external clock generator, it avoids intel SSC entirely, as it routes to a 3rd party chip near PCI x16.

Spread spectrum clock WILL/CAN help if you do have EMI related issues, but its a subjective argument. It's best to test hardware with both and decide from there.

Any recommended fix people promote won't 100% translate to real world. You have to mess with this stuff on your own.


Edit:

As I mentioned prior, high powered copper cable line being grounded to my place is the biggest issue that impacts EMI subjectively. It makes sense as my cable modem transcoded high powered data at a set modulation frequency. SSC just offsets to alt spectrum clocks.

Running fiber (optical light source) or 5G home internet (CELL TOWER) pretty much avoids 99% of the issue in my case, though you can optimize this as you feel fit.

When I was running cable and fiber in parallel, Intel SSC HELPED A TON for the cable line when grounded outside.

With Fiber Internet, it has mostly become a non issue for me. Tested back to back for months. Boards with internal and external clock gen and or AMD platforms with or without external clock gen feel similar enough to where I just don't care. Was only an issue when I was running cable.

Easy way to test without spending money is to just turn off cable modem inside house. Though people might have a completely different issue to what mine was. YMMV.
 
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Solaris17

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Except you cannot on modern intel CPUs (12th to 14th gen). It's default ON per intel spec.. This is due to EMI frequency concerns of high clock CPU/RAM/PCI5.0.

right. Anyway so the OP has an AMD machine.

Otherwise you have a link to that spec?

Thanks
 
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right. Anyway so the OP has an AMD machine.

Otherwise you have a link to that spec?

Thanks

According to Shaminos post on Overclock.net, it cannot be disabled. Only solution to avoid intel SSC is external chip.

AMD also has internal and external clock gen on specific boards, though I believe they don't have a specific spectrum clock setting. Im not sure.

I do remember ASUS X570 boards defaulting to 99.80 though. Which is more or less a frequency offset similar to what SSC does. ASUS later patched it and it now reports 99.98 like boards with external clock gen. But it was same case for ASUS Z690 in the beginning. IE: SSC is on, but offset to 0.25.

It really depends what OP is running to be honest.

Edit: The old ACE had external clock gen.. so SSC wouldn't even be an option if the S revision also has it. Hard to find photos of this board naked without heatsinks.
 
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Hot damn, I've been using 441.66 Nvidia drivers on both Win 8.1 and Win 10 for a while because they were the lowest lag version I've found that's recently new. I just tried the newest 537.42 Nvidia driver and these things are absolutely pathetic for mouse movement. Even worse, the Nvidia DCH drivers seem to force install Nvidia Audio giving you multiple audio devices compounding the problem further.

I don't think I'd use a 4090 RTX for free if I had to use these drivers. Not sure if AMD are any better (seems they don't even offer a non-DCH either), but I HIGHLY doubt they're worse than this. If anyone reads this and is forced to use these DCH drivers, I'd probably use that one Nvidia driver slimming tool to try and remove NV audio at least (don't bother with any of the other options as I seemed to get wonky results with those).
 
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Saw this post and none of the replies are really covering the more important issues right now, so here's some of the things to pay attention to in 2023 (I might have to make a dedicated thread since there's even more issues to cover really):

First section - Cables
-----------------------

1) HDMI vs displayport - displayport has slightly better frame delivery (smoothness) but responsiveness feels worse than DVI and HDMI (which both feel more similar to each other while displayport feels alien compared to the two). I think HDMI and DVI send everything on the fly while displayport uses some type of packetization system. The guy that runs the website Blurbusters knows a lot of technical stuff about monitors and says HDMI should be faster but not noticeable to human reflexes. To me it just feels like the controls are more dead in general on displayport, but it's possible I've just not found a high quality enough cable like I have for HDMI which brings us to the next subject. (oh, and you also need to have "content type reported to display" set to "desktop programs" in Nvidia control panel desktop color settings)

2) The cable itself - It's not a meme. Both cable quality and thickness actually matter. There's a pretty large difference in using a thin (30 AWG) vs thick HDMI cable (24-26 AWG). If you look at any technical literature for things like HDMI, you can tell the design specifications are running the cables practically to the breaking point. Then you have things like each internal cable bleeds interference onto the others causing the signals to arrive at different times creating skew. Whether it's just a resistance difference or skew prevention, I don't know. I just know you can feel a difference in a 26 and 30 AWG cable.

3) HDMI 2.0 vs 2.1 - might be anecdotal, might not, but I purchased a high end HDMI 2.1 cable and for some reason it felt massively worse than my 26 AWG HDMI 2.0 cable. Not sure if they're doing something weird with 2.1 cables but I tend to avoid them now. I've also purchased exotic 2.0 cables made of silver instead of copper and it made my movements all feel like they had an overshoot and I didn't like it. So things like resistance actually seem to do things in display cables while ultra-casuals or people that don't play games at all will claim it's impossible.

4) Some people will claim this is BS, but I think I've noticed a 'directionality' to how HDMI cables are built as well. As in plugging them in one direction will give different results from the other. I don't know if it's a polarity phenomenon, manufacturing issue, or other, but I've switched cables back and forth numerous times with my current cable and it seems to give better results in one specific direction. Some expensive vendors like this "Audioquest" brand even have arrows on the cables indicating which end should go to the monitor and which to the GPU. Then they also make 'one way' cables that claim to reduce interference as well. All I'm saying is that there's a lot more than meets the eye with cables and it's not a simple matter:



Monitors
----------
1) Brand - I've used a decent amount of monitors but not every brand like Gigabyte and MSI. In my experience, I noticed brands like Samsung and Dell tended to feel more normal while I didn't seem to like brands like LG at all. I remember seeing some pro player who bought like 10 monitors and came to a similar conclusion as me. There's a pretty good amount of options (some hidden, some not) in gaming monitors now so if the vendor doesn't expose the right ones or set up whatever hidden ones properly, you can see how this would be an issue. I play well with a 144hz Samsung but can't hit the side of a barn with a 240hz LG for instance. We're talking mega absurd difference in how each of the two monitors controls which just should not be the case, but it is.

2) Overdrive - Probably one of the bigger industry scams that exists. I've never used a single LCD where this did not have a detrimental effect on cursor movement. Every LCD I've used from Samsung TN panels, PLS, IPS, and my current Samsung VA all have better cursor movement with overdrive off. Might be worth having worse cursor movement and better pixel response to some people, but not me, so I've had this setting off for the last 20 something years on every monitor. And yes, I always check to see if there's a difference and it's always the exact same result with each monitor. The motion clarity difference is noticeable (not enormous, but it's there), but I've never had a monitor that was usable with it on and not usable with it off.

3) Again, another setting people will claim is voodoo, but specifically with Nvidia cards, HDMI "limited" feels a bit snappier than HDMI "full" in the control panel. Whether limited sends less data or it's just the more native HDMI spec, I don't know what the mechanical cause is, but it feels a bit snappier. Only problem is it's very difficult to use this setting since you need a monitor that supports toggling between HDMI full/limited, and most don't. Not sure how this plays out on the AMD side.

Memory latency
------------------
Your memory settings have an enormous effect on cursor movement as well as there being a large difference in single rank vs dual rank. Single rank feels faster but less in control, while dual rank cursor movement feels slower and more controlled. In the DDR3 days I didn't like how single rank felt at all and felt it was too slippery, but in DDR4 and 5 it might be more of a preference thing. Timings also play a huge role where I always prefered how 7-7-7-20 1333mhz felt over something like 9-9-9-24 1600mhz in the DDR3 era. I've never since found a setting as good as 7-7-7-20 for DDR4 or 5. Something about that was always good for me where changing it to even something like 7-7-7-21 was worse.


A real shocker (or maybe not) - Networking effects on cursor movement
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some casuals will claim this is voodoo, but I promise you it's not. If you have a combination modem and wifi router, all those billion settings on the router actually affect your mouse movement. Things like "readyshare" for media sharing and all the others. If you just want a single setting to test this theory, one of the more egregious ones is "Airtime Fairness." Toggle that on and off and you'll notice an immediate effect where having it on the cursor is slower.

So what is the solution to this network idiocy for a gaming PC? You can either attempt to figure out the golden settings for your router (of which none might exist), or you can buy something like an Arris modem at Walmart (that has no options at all and no wifi) with two ethernet ports on the back and run one of those cables to your PC and run the other cable to a wifi router, I guess. The only problem here is you need TWO simultaneous IP's to do this, and Comcast will likely refuse to give you another. I think it's possible to pay a small fee to get a 2nd one if you use a Comcast business internet plan (they're not even really more expensive), but they might refuse to do it still anyway.

Intel vs AMD
--------------
It's not big news that Ryzen 1+2 are not going to be good for latency orientated people. Ryzen 3 is supposedly much better and even beats Intel in inter-core latency now, but there's too many other external factors to flat out say one would be better or worse for gaming. Each one probably uses a different Microsoft provided USB chipset driver and things like that. All it takes is somebody not doing a good job on that to ruin the entire system for gaming. I'm curious to how Ryzen 3 feels compared to Intel nowadays, but I can't really justify setting $600-1000 on fire to find out it's worse than the systems I already have.

I'm surprised there's no reputable person in the entire universe with attention to detail who can say "I play better on Intel than Ryzen 3" or vice versa. Since Intel started to implement the same chiplet and latency problems AMD had of Ryzen 1+2, I imagine this is probably an objective thing now and not preference where one is going to be less worse than the other in terms of how moving a mouse around on the screen feels.


This one will piss you off if you spent a lot of money on an aftermarket card
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I used to mine digital crapcoins and had like 30 GPUs at one time. I noticed the 'founder' edition, aka direct from the manufacturer had better mouse movement than the 3rd party cards. Some brands being worse than others, but the founder edition was always superior. I think they put the A-team engineers on the founder cards while giving them a year or two to design the thing while they have the fly by night engineers on aftermarket cards with dumber goals (infinite power phases), short time span, bad BIOS's, numerous fans creating harmonic issues, etc, etc.

Power supplies and power strips
-----------------------------------
I'm not really a big PSU guy. It's kind of a weird field where components are always changing even on the same model, but anecdotally the power supplies WITHOUT caps inside the cables feel better to me. I also noticed a similar thing with power strips where for some reason the cheaper power strip with no internal 'conditioning' seemed to provide a more direct cursor movement. Sounds good, right? Having a bunch of caps all over the place "conditioning" your power. Apparently it's not, and I'm guessing having these things all over the place creates resistance issues and you basically just want only the giant capacitors in your PSU and that's it.


Web browser - a ridiculous rabbit hole
------------------------------------------
Another setting people will claim is voodoo, but it's not. If I load up an old build of Chromium which I know is good (857942), then delete it and load up a newer version, you can tell cursor movement differs a lot from the last web browser you've had open, like the OS somehow gives browsers too much leeway to fool with system integration. It's the same thing if you load up say, Windows 8.1, open Internet Explorer and turn off "Smooth scrolling." It then feels like that browser setting alters system-wide mouse movement when whatever the browser is doing should be entirely contained and sandboxed into the browser itself instead of screwing with the operating system.

If you want to test this theory yourself, just delete your Chromium settings in users/usernamehere/AppData/local folder. Now open chromium (settings and bookmarks will all be default) and do something like delete that default "chrome webstore" link on the new tab page. You should notice mouse movement instantly becomes faster after deleting that link for no reason. I have no idea why or how browsers and their settings have this type of impact on global system performance when virtually no other apps do things like this. If I change a setting in "Borderlands 3" it does not alter my system-wide mouse movement. Browsers should be the same way. If I was king I would send whoever is responsible for this to prison.


More BS in PCs that makes you want to give it up and buy a console instead
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you plug in your motherboard USB headers (i.e. for front panel USB access), usually you can feel your mouse movement stiffen up some potentially being a bit less responsive. Is it the cables not being shielded acting as antennas? Is it just the cables suck and create some type of grounding issue? Don't know. Don't care. I just notice they tend to be a problem so I stopped plugging them in.


Non-deterministic mouse sensitivity
---------------------------------------
When you click the DPI button on your mouse to toggle through settings it will feel completely different each time you arrive back at the same 800 DPI or whatever you started at. I first noticed this back in the Logitech Avago 3090 days where I attempted to utilize both 400 and 800 DPI in games and noticed if I toggled between the two settings the mouse would feel off until I did a system reboot. But once rebooted that 800 DPI tended to feel the same each time. That was on mice with no internal memory.

Now, fast forward to mice with internal memory and you have the same problem but instead of the mouse feeling normal after reboot, your 800 DPI now feels different than before as if you've gained or lost sensitivity. Some type of issue with bit flipping on crappy internal memory? No idea. I just notice toggling through DPI now is not deterministic and your mouse will feel different each iteration of 'toggling' DPI.

Ferrite chokes
----------------
These seem to actually do things. I had a day one launch edition Logitech G402 for instance and for some reason it controlled a lot better than the two other later units I had. After taking them apart I noticed the original had this ferrite choke built inside the mouse itself around the USB cord while they were omitted from later units. I suspect this is why the original felt better. Companies like Endgame mice seem to utilize a generous portion of ferrite chokes as well and their mice tend to behave in a very predictable way compared to many others.

MBR vs GPT booting
-------------------------
There's a difference between the two and you'll have to try both to see which you like better. I've always preferred MBR vs GPT - UEFI on Win 8.1 for instance. Then for some reason if you turn off CSM while booting 'pure' UEFI mouse control goes to utter crap. I believe Intel is supposedly removing CSM soon as well (if they haven't already).
I really appreciate the response Roach. When I have time I will go through it in more depth but I just wanted to add that my problem also persists in Bios.

Here is a quick video I made to highlight some of the issues ...


All suggestions most welcome!

Thanks
 
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I really appreciate the response Roach. When I have time I will go through it in more depth but I just wanted to add that my problem also persists in Bios.

Here is a quick video I made to highlight some of the issues ...


All suggestions most welcome!

Thanks
That clicking issue, makes me wonder if it's the mouse, but didn't you say that you tried different mice?
 
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Hot damn, I've been using 441.66 Nvidia drivers on both Win 8.1 and Win 10 for a while because they were the lowest lag version I've found that's recently new. I just tried the newest 537.42 Nvidia driver and these things are absolutely pathetic for mouse movement. Even worse, the Nvidia DCH drivers seem to force install Nvidia Audio giving you multiple audio devices compounding the problem further.

I don't think I'd use a 4090 RTX for free if I had to use these drivers. Not sure if AMD are any better (seems they don't even offer a non-DCH either), but I HIGHLY doubt they're worse than this. If anyone reads this and is forced to use these DCH drivers, I'd probably use that one Nvidia driver slimming tool to try and remove NV audio at least (don't bother with any of the other options as I seemed to get wonky results with those).

Who on their right mind wants to use a non-DCH driver on a modern Windows system? There's a reason they were removed and discontinued. The drivers are fine. The problem is that you are changing settings you clearly and visibly do not understand in search of some extreme optimization and simply making everything worse in the process, as your earlier post in this thread clearly shows.

Directionality of cables? DP being smoother than HDMI? Cable wire gauge affecting "quality"? Reference boards being "smoother" than AIB GPUs? NIC making your mouse more responsive? Intentionally using an outdated browser to improve your mouse pointer accuracy? Power supplies without bulk caps? What the hell is all this absolute nonsense? I sincerely hope you don't believe any of it yourself, no one should ever follow the "advice" you just posted.
 
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Who on their right mind wants to use a non-DCH driver on a modern Windows system? There's a reason they were removed and discontinued. The drivers are fine. The problem is that you are changing settings you clearly and visibly do not understand in search of some extreme optimization and simply making everything worse in the process, as your earlier post in this thread clearly shows.

Directionality of cables? DP being smoother than HDMI? Cable wire gauge affecting "quality"? Reference boards being "smoother" than AIB GPUs? NIC making your mouse more responsive? Intentionally using an outdated browser to improve your mouse pointer accuracy? Power supplies without bulk caps? What the hell is all this absolute nonsense? I sincerely hope you don't believe any of it yourself, no one should ever follow the "advice" you just posted.

I think he needs a tinfoil hat.
 
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Olympia, WA
System Name Sleepy Painter
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 3600
Motherboard Asus TuF Gaming X570-PLUS/WIFI
Cooling FSP Windale 6 - Passive
Memory 2x16GB F4-3600C16-16GVKC @ 16-19-21-36-58-1T
Video Card(s) MSI RX580 8GB
Storage 2x Samsung PM963 960GB nVME RAID0, Crucial BX500 1TB SATA, WD Blue 3D 2TB SATA
Display(s) Microboard 32" Curved 1080P 144hz VA w/ Freesync
Case NZXT Gamma Classic Black
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar D1
Power Supply Rosewill 1KW on 240V@60hz
Mouse Logitech MX518 Legend
Keyboard Red Dragon K552
Software Windows 10 Enterprise 2019 LTSC 1809 17763.1757
Who on their right mind wants to use a non-DCH driver on a modern Windows system? There's a reason they were removed and discontinued. The drivers are fine. The problem is that you are changing settings you clearly and visibly do not understand in search of some extreme optimization and simply making everything worse in the process, as your earlier post in this thread clearly shows.

Directionality of cables? DP being smoother than HDMI? Cable wire gauge affecting "quality"? Reference boards being "smoother" than AIB GPUs? NIC making your mouse more responsive? Intentionally using an outdated browser to improve your mouse pointer accuracy? Power supplies without bulk caps? What the hell is all this absolute nonsense? I sincerely hope you don't believe any of it yourself, no one should ever follow the "advice" you just posted.

I think he needs a tinfoil hat.
It's far more fair and accurate to denigrate on the basis of inexperience, demonstrated misunderstandings, and/or lack of reputation. The lack of history here, also implies potential trolling.

However, there's at least some truth to his points.

First section - Cables
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1) HDMI vs displayport - displayport has slightly better frame delivery (smoothness) but responsiveness feels worse than DVI and HDMI (which both feel more similar to each other while displayport feels alien compared to the two). I think HDMI and DVI send everything on the fly while displayport uses some type of packetization system.
There are physical and electrical differences between these interfaces, yes...
The guy that runs the website Blurbusters knows a lot of technical stuff about monitors and says HDMI should be faster but not noticeable to human reflexes.
Blurbusters isn't into BSing. AFAIK, they're still a good resource, and have done actual non-subjective testing within the community.
Unless you're firmly in the "humans can't see more than 60FPS" camp, blurbusters.com is a fantastic resource.
To me it just feels like the controls are more dead in general on displayport, but it's possible I've just not found a high quality enough cable like I have for HDMI which brings us to the next subject. (oh, and you also need to have "content type reported to display" set to "desktop programs" in Nvidia control panel desktop color settings)
Depending on seemingly pedantic factors, you can get entirely different perceived outcomes.
While yes, 'Digital' does not just work like people think; it takes high-end testing equipment to make anything more than anecdotal and subjective statements (that sound a lot like audiophile shenanigans, to most of us)

2) The cable itself - It's not a meme. Both cable quality and thickness actually matter. There's a pretty large difference in using a thin (30 AWG) vs thick HDMI cable (24-26 AWG). If you look at any technical literature for things like HDMI, you can tell the design specifications are running the cables practically to the breaking point. Then you have things like each internal cable bleeds interference onto the others causing the signals to arrive at different times creating skew. Whether it's just a resistance difference or skew prevention, I don't know. I just know you can feel a difference in a 26 and 30 AWG cable.
There's truth to the factors mentioned, yes.
However, I'd say 'beefier' built cables are also 'built better' with better implicit soldering precision and shielding from the multi-STP wirestock used.

Generally-speaking, Digital Serial (Video) interfaces, should only 'lag' from errors and/or error correction.
As an example: DisplayPort (especially), is a lot like PCIe*; detectable differences in latency, real-repeatable performance, and effective bandwidth can be found between E-PCIe/eGPU riser/cable construction(s).
*There are many SerDes components that multi-function PCIe and/or DisplayPort.

3) HDMI 2.0 vs 2.1 - might be anecdotal, might not, but I purchased a high end HDMI 2.1 cable and for some reason it felt massively worse than my 26 AWG HDMI 2.0 cable. This is all explained easily by completely differenct factors. Most brands are very loose with their advertisement of 'performance specification'.
A good quality (read: VESA Certified) 'older spec' cable will always outperform the advertised-as 'newer spec' junk cable. "high end" and "high $$" doesn't mean Quality.
Not sure if they're doing something weird with 2.1 cables but I tend to avoid them now.
Many 2.1-spec cables are using a repeater or other IC on/in the cable for signal integrity (when used in the mess of most consumers' Home Theater wiring). Chekhov's Gun: this comes up again
I've also purchased exotic 2.0 cables made of silver instead of copper and it made my movements all feel like they had an overshoot and I didn't like it. So things like resistance actually seem to do things in display cables while ultra-casuals or people that don't play games at all will claim it's impossible.
"Now this is podracing audiophile nuttery!"
Yes, it is plausible that there's some kind of compensation going on at the IC-level for (expectant) Copper conductors; Argentum(Silver) is not exceptionally better.
However, I'd like to see some empirical testing before entertaining this with any seriousness.

Silver(Ag) conductor digital cables are 99.9% nonsense for consumers and enthusiasts.

4) Some people will claim this is BS, but I think I've noticed a 'directionality' to how HDMI cables are built as well.
Cables with repeaters or (optical) transceivers are (often) directional.
plugging them in one direction will give different results from the other. I don't know if it's a polarity phenomenon, manufacturing issue, or other, but I've switched cables back and forth numerous times with my current cable and it seems to give better results in one specific direction.
There's plausibility here but, it cannot be taken seriously when presented alongside misunderstandings/misrepresentations.
You get more variations in impedance and EM-characteristics from remating contacts, removing debris, and cable bend/orientation.
Some expensive vendors like this "Audioquest" brand even have arrows on the cables indicating which end should go to the monitor and which to the GPU. Then they also make 'one way' cables that claim to reduce interference as well.
The only other 'directional' factor would be manufacturers that believe only one end of an EMI/RFI shield should be connected to gnd.
This may have some noticeable (repeatable) effects on DSL and Ethernet in noisy environments.
All I'm saying is that there's a lot more than meets the eye with cables and it's not a simple matter
Correct. The "Safe Bet" is a VESA-certified cable, period. A lot of 'expensive vendors' are 90+% marketing wank.
If one wants to pedantically address EMI/RFI, impedance, etc. "issues", go find cables sold for Industrial applications.
They're not inexpensive but unlike -phile facing brands, you get what you pay for.


Monitors
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1) Brand - I've used a decent amount of monitors but not every brand like Gigabyte and MSI. In my experience, I noticed brands like Samsung and Dell tended to feel more normal while I didn't seem to like brands like LG at all. I remember seeing some pro player who bought like 10 monitors and came to a similar conclusion as me. There's a pretty good amount of options (some hidden, some not) in gaming monitors now so if the vendor doesn't expose the right ones or set up whatever hidden ones properly, you can see how this would be an issue. I play well with a 144hz Samsung but can't hit the side of a barn with a 240hz LG for instance. We're talking mega absurd difference in how each of the two monitors controls which just should not be the case, but it is.
Brand means very little. This is even subjective down to specific examples of a given model. Ex: I purchased a VG248QE at-release, and exchanged for unrelated issues; the 2nd one 'felt different'.
A Samsung-branded display could have another OEM/ODM's panel, etc. Not to mention, (In the past) there's been oddball generic and 'cheapo' displays with surprisingly-low input latency.
Basically, without empirical testing (or purchase-compare-return/exchange), it is a crapshoot, TBQH.

2) Overdrive - Probably one of the bigger industry scams that exists. I've never used a single LCD where this did not have a detrimental effect on cursor movement. Every LCD I've used from Samsung TN panels, PLS, IPS, and my current Samsung VA all have better cursor movement with overdrive off. Might be worth having worse cursor movement and better pixel response to some people, but not me, so I've had this setting off for the last 20 something years on every monitor. And yes, I always check to see if there's a difference and it's always the exact same result with each monitor. The motion clarity difference is noticeable (not enormous, but it's there), but I've never had a monitor that was usable with it on and not usable with it off.
Arguable in cause. No disagreement that any 'additional processing', etc. effects precision/responsiveness.
I'll still keep my overdrive on tho, TYVM. Clarity-in-motion is MUCH better with it 'on' on my Microboard-branded 144hz VA panel.

3) Again, another setting people will claim is voodoo, but specifically with Nvidia cards, HDMI "limited" feels a bit snappier than HDMI "full" in the control panel. Whether limited sends less data or it's just the more native HDMI spec, I don't know what the mechanical cause is, but it feels a bit snappier. Only problem is it's very difficult to use this setting since you need a monitor that supports toggling between HDMI full/limited, and most don't. Not sure how this plays out on the AMD side.
The conjecture on the cause(s) is not helpful, at all. The 'issue' is worth researching and/or 'playing with' but, I seriously doubt your guessing as to the cause.
Many (higher-end) HDTVs will go into a 'no post-processing' mode if set/detecting a PC input. Many (lower-end) HDTVs and (all price-range) Monitors often occlude this 'feature'. Changing settings on the GPU-side could easily be changing things internally-configured automatically on the Display-side.

Memory latency
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Your memory settings have an enormous effect on cursor movement as well as there being a large difference in single rank vs dual rank. Single rank feels faster but less in control, while dual rank cursor movement feels slower and more controlled. In the DDR3 days I didn't like how single rank felt at all and felt it was too slippery, but in DDR4 and 5 it might be more of a preference thing. Timings also play a huge role where I always prefered how 7-7-7-20 1333mhz felt over something like 9-9-9-24 1600mhz in the DDR3 era. I've never since found a setting as good as 7-7-7-20 for DDR4 or 5. Something about that was always good for me where changing it to even something like 7-7-7-21 was worse.
Tweak to ones' heart's content, by all means.
I do recall 'back in the day' that timings and clocks working with the architecture (per se) could bench or 'feel better' than one would expect. IIRC, K8 its HTT and RAM clocks were a good example.
I'd imagine similar is applicable today.

Regardless, 1% and 0.1% framerate lows can be affected by timings, and will greatly impact 'smoothness' and 'perceived input latency'.
TBQH from my experience in playing w/ Zen 2 and 3 sub-timings, etc., I'd say your 'main timings' have less-impact, and that the board setting those sub-timings/features for you, based off your 'main timings' is actually making the difference.

A real shocker (or maybe not) - Networking effects on cursor movement
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Some casuals will claim this is voodoo, but I promise you it's not. If you have a combination modem and wifi router, all those billion settings on the router actually affect your mouse movement. Things like "readyshare" for media sharing and all the others. If you just want a single setting to test this theory, one of the more egregious ones is "Airtime Fairness." Toggle that on and off and you'll notice an immediate effect where having it on the cursor is slower.
Poorly-presented, hard to test/reproduce but, yeah... Basically, EMI/RFI-related and 'junk packets' on the network that your NIC is still taking cycles to inspect, etc.
Also, WiFi (and anything wireless) is 100% a no-no for those pedantically addressing interference and latency problems.
So what is the solution to this network idiocy for a gaming PC? You can either attempt to figure out the golden settings for your router (of which none might exist), or you can buy something like an Arris modem at Walmart (that has no options at all and no wifi) with two ethernet ports on the back and run one of those cables to your PC and run the other cable to a wifi router, I guess. The only problem here is you need TWO simultaneous IP's to do this, and Comcast will likely refuse to give you another. I think it's possible to pay a small fee to get a 2nd one if you use a Comcast business internet plan (they're not even really more expensive), but they might refuse to do it still anyway.
No need for the attitude* but, you've got a point. Most ISP-supplied "Home Gateways" are locked-down and not well-optimized. T-Mobile Home Internet is the most-poignant offender, that I know of.
Yes, a dedicated External IP and (owned) Modem-Only for gaming/server use would be ideal... However, *there are other ways to address the problem(s); too many to fully overview.

Intel vs AMD
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It's not big news that Ryzen 1+2 are not going to be good for latency orientated people. Ryzen 3 is supposedly much better and even beats Intel in inter-core latency now, but there's too many other external factors to flat out say one would be better or worse for gaming. Each one probably uses a different Microsoft provided USB chipset driver and things like that. All it takes is somebody not doing a good job on that to ruin the entire system for gaming. I'm curious to how Ryzen 3 feels compared to Intel nowadays, but I can't really justify setting $600-1000 on fire to find out it's worse than the systems I already have.

I'm surprised there's no reputable person in the entire universe with attention to detail who can say "I play better on Intel than Ryzen 3" or vice versa. Since Intel started to implement the same chiplet and latency problems AMD had of Ryzen 1+2, I imagine this is probably an objective thing now and not preference where one is going to be less worse than the other in terms of how moving a mouse around on the screen feels.
Off-base but not entirely incorrect.
All modern architectures are less-responsive and higher latency. Typically, for power efficiency and processor life, without sacrificing Peak Performance.
If you want the most-responsive system, go build an OC'd and clock-locked Ivy Bridge Z77 retrobox. If you want performance, stick with what's newer.

This one will piss you off if you spent a lot of money on an aftermarket card
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I used to mine digital crapcoins and had like 30 GPUs at one time. I noticed the 'founder' edition, aka direct from the manufacturer had better mouse movement than the 3rd party cards. Some brands being worse than others, but the founder edition was always superior. I think they put the A-team engineers on the founder cards while giving them a year or two to design the thing while they have the fly by night engineers on aftermarket cards with dumber goals (infinite power phases), short time span, bad BIOS's, numerous fans creating harmonic issues, etc, etc.
I doubt most of your conjecture but, IIRC you're not the only one that's noticed this. Personally, I chalk it up to EMI/filtering being overengineered on nV FE cards (like the rest of it).

Power supplies and power strips
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I'm not really a big PSU guy. It's kind of a weird field where components are always changing even on the same model, but anecdotally the power supplies WITHOUT caps inside the cables feel better to me. I also noticed a similar thing with power strips where for some reason the cheaper power strip with no internal 'conditioning' seemed to provide a more direct cursor movement. Sounds good, right? Having a bunch of caps all over the place "conditioning" your power. Apparently it's not, and I'm guessing having these things all over the place creates resistance issues and you basically just want only the giant capacitors in your PSU and that's it.
Mixing up components (and their functions). You probably actually kinda-sorta know what you're talking about but, the mix-ups in terms, etc. makes this come-off as nonsense.
Chokes or Ferrite Beads (when used correctly) will improve EMC conditions.

Web browser - a ridiculous rabbit hole
Agreed. IMO, Google Chrome, and Chromium started a trend for using way too many 'cycles' and other resources.
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Another setting people will claim is voodoo, but it's not. If I load up an old build of Chromium which I know is good (857942), then delete it and load up a newer version, you can tell cursor movement differs a lot from the last web browser you've had open, like the OS somehow gives browsers too much leeway to fool with system integration. It's the same thing if you load up say, Windows 8.1, open Internet Explorer and turn off "Smooth scrolling." It then feels like that browser setting alters system-wide mouse movement when whatever the browser is doing should be entirely contained and sandboxed into the browser itself instead of screwing with the operating system.

If you want to test this theory yourself, just delete your Chromium settings in users/usernamehere/AppData/local folder. Now open chromium (settings and bookmarks will all be default) and do something like delete that default "chrome webstore" link on the new tab page. You should notice mouse movement instantly becomes faster after deleting that link for no reason. I have no idea why or how browsers and their settings have this type of impact on global system performance when virtually no other apps do things like this. If I change a setting in "Borderlands 3" it does not alter my system-wide mouse movement. Browsers should be the same way. If I was king I would send whoever is responsible for this to prison.
Conceptually, I agree. However, "In the name of security" we 'Deal With It' or we use a VM/separate machine for web browsing.

More BS in PCs that makes you want to give it up and buy a console instead
[Troll Tier: Established] :laugh:
If you plug in your motherboard USB headers (i.e. for front panel USB access), usually you can feel your mouse movement stiffen up some potentially being a bit less responsive. Is it the cables not being shielded acting as antennas? Is it just the cables suck and create some type of grounding issue? Don't know. Don't care. I just notice they tend to be a problem so I stopped plugging them in.
This is true.
Basically, cases use USB 1.0-spec cabling and plugs for anything not 3.0 or newer.
As you've done, the simplest fix is to not plug in your front inputs. However, more than a few people have made custom shielded cables for front USB and Audio.
(IMO) Generally, since the 00s chassis manufacturers have completely thrown EMC out the window. Anyone else recall cases used to come with ferrite beads and/or chokes for your power cables?

Non-deterministic mouse sensitivity
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When you click the DPI button on your mouse to toggle through settings it will feel completely different each time you arrive back at the same 800 DPI or whatever you started at. I first noticed this back in the Logitech Avago 3090 days where I attempted to utilize both 400 and 800 DPI in games and noticed if I toggled between the two settings the mouse would feel off until I did a system reboot. But once rebooted that 800 DPI tended to feel the same each time. That was on mice with no internal memory.
You have my attention; I've had this issue on/off through several Logitech 'gaming mice'.
Now, fast forward to mice with internal memory and you have the same problem but instead of the mouse feeling normal after reboot, your 800 DPI now feels different than before as if you've gained or lost sensitivity. Some type of issue with bit flipping on crappy internal memory? No idea. I just notice toggling through DPI now is not deterministic and your mouse will feel different each iteration of 'toggling' DPI.
IDK either; but, this is the first thing you've brought up I'm 99.9% on-board with you on.

Ferrite chokes
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These seem to actually do things. I had a day one launch edition Logitech G402 for instance and for some reason it controlled a lot better than the two other later units I had. After taking them apart I noticed the original had this ferrite choke built inside the mouse itself around the USB cord while they were omitted from later units. I suspect this is why the original felt better. Companies like Endgame mice seem to utilize a generous portion of ferrite chokes as well and their mice tend to behave in a very predictable way compared to many others.
USB like most-other Serial connections, has its data defined by tight ranges of otherwise analog voltage levels.
While it is highly-tolerant serial interfaces clearly do strange things with EMI/RFI and/or high standing EM fields (industrial motor and furnace control, for ex).
We're both clearly undereducated on the topic but, yes; beads/chokes actually do stuff.
IIRC, Mussels here on TPU has experimented with them a lot; his DSL speeds show they work.
Properly used, they do cut down interference.

MBR vs GPT booting
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There's a difference between the two and you'll have to try both to see which you like better. I've always preferred MBR vs GPT - UEFI on Win 8.1 for instance. Then for some reason if you turn off CSM while booting 'pure' UEFI mouse control goes to utter crap. I believe Intel is supposedly removing CSM soon as well (if they haven't already).
Model-to-model and firmware release variations will have more impact on this than anything.
Generally-speaking; the Compatibility Support Module should be avoided if at all possible. Any machine running 8.1 or newer, all hardware and software should be set up 'full UEFI'. CSM breaks stuff, period.
 
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