OFFICIAL Cyberpunk 2077 Game Discussion

[Mussels]

it makes it look like a cheap AI generated image.

You just described what it actually IS.

Using games for this stuff is basically how they train the AI models in the first place, they know the intended end result, and keep trying different variations of the algorithms to see which ones are the most accurate for what performance cost and then choose presets from those.

 

[Dragam1337]

You just described what it actually IS.

Using games for this stuff is basically how they train the AI models in the first place, they know the intended end result, and keep trying different variations of the algorithms to see which ones are the most accurate for what performance cost and then choose presets from those.

I can see what they are trying to achieve - what i can't see is how anyone can be ok with a distorted image like that.

It truly is the age of downgrading image quality for higher performance.

 

[Mussels]

I can see what they are trying to achieve - what i can't see is how anyone can be ok with a distorted image like that.

It truly is the age of downgrading image quality for higher performance.

Consoles - remember they can't even achieve 720p 30FPS native res these days.

Big money in a new game release, and they can only work with modern tools and engines or be hit with a big media backlash... and modern consoles might as well be a 5 year old laptop, because they basically are (Zen2 with APU)

 

[Dragam1337]

Consoles - remember they can't even achieve 720p 30FPS native res these days.

Big money in a new game release, and they can only work with modern tools and engines or be hit with a big media backlash... and modern consoles might as well be a 5 year old laptop, because they basically are (Zen2 with APU)

You are right about that in regards to upscaling and consoles.

But dlss ray reconstruction is pc specific and only available / usable with raytracing - and it clearly needs alot more time in the oven, if they don't need to scrap it entirely, and come up with something different, like with dlss 1.0.

As for path tracing itself, there is no denying that it can be completely gamechanging at times.

But yeah, i use it with dlss ray reconstruction DISABLED !

Oh, and i wish you could buy this bike in the game - it looks sweeeet !

 

[arni-gx]

damn it, ist looke like i mess with johny and V (female) relationship, i have level 54 (still not meet takemura for 2nd time), my rating with johny is only 40%..... i want the secret ending..... but, can i still get through it in the futures, the secret ending ??

 

[adilazimdegilx]

damn it, ist looke like i mess with johny and V (female) relationship, i have level 54 (still not meet takemura for 2nd time), my rating with johny is only 40%..... i want the secret ending..... but, can i still get through it in the futures, the secret ending ??

Secret ending is tied with the dialog choices you made in while talking where you found Johnny's body. If you havent done that yet, look at the net before speaking to him.
Either way you can unlock secret ending with save editor mod if you fail.

 

[Dragam1337]

This pisses me off sooo much !

 

[Dragam1337]

Testing ray reconstruction with the new dlss 3.7 - i always had it turned off, cause i greatly disliked the oil painting effect it gave, so seeing if the new version fixes that.

No ray reconstruction

Original ray reconstruction

Dlss 3.7 ray reconstruction

Result is that it lessens the oil panting effect as seen on the ground texture and palmtree leaves against the wall, but it doesn't get rid of it.

 

[phanbuey]

You are right about that in regards to upscaling and consoles.

But dlss ray reconstruction is pc specific and only available / usable with raytracing - and it clearly needs alot more time in the oven, if they don't need to scrap it entirely, and come up with something different, like with dlss 1.0.

As for path tracing itself, there is no denying that it can be completely gamechanging at times.

But yeah, i use it with dlss ray reconstruction DISABLED !

Oh, and i wish you could buy this bike in the game - it looks sweeeet !

So the images look different but I honestly cant tell which one has path tracing and which one looks more realistic.. Im assuming the bottom one based on the puddle and the reflection on the car. One just looks like it's at late evening, and the other one in the afternoon.

 

[AusWolf]

So the images look different

Do they? Where?

 

[evernessince]

Testing ray reconstruction with the new dlss 3.7 - i always had it turned off, cause i greatly disliked the oil painting effect it gave, so seeing if the new version fixes that.

No ray reconstruction

Original ray reconstruction

Dlss 3.7 ray reconstruction

Result is that it lessens the oil panting effect as seen on the ground texture and palmtree leaves against the wall, but it doesn't get rid of it.

Ray Reconstruction also adds a few more artifacts in certain scenarios as HWUB pointed out.

Really the name ray reconstruction is misleading, they tweaked the denoiser and gave it a fancy name.

 

[phanbuey]

Do they? Where?

Im waiting for them to remarket rasterization as "DLSS Fast Lighting" - looks similar, gives you 80% boost!

 

[AusWolf]

Im waiting for them to remarket rasterization as "DLSS Fast Lighting" - looks similar, gives you 80% boost!

I hope no executive from Nvidia reads this.

 

[Dragam1337]

So the images look different but I honestly cant tell which one has path tracing and which one looks more realistic.. Im assuming the bottom one based on the puddle and the reflection on the car. One just looks like it's at late evening, and the other one in the afternoon.

Re-read the post...

The images are comparing ray reconstruction off / on and different versions - not pathtracing on / off... there are no changes aside of ray reconstruction on / off (aka which raytracing denoiser is used).

Ray Reconstruction also adds a few more artifacts in certain scenarios as HWUB pointed out.

Really the name ray reconstruction is misleading, they tweaked the denoiser and gave it a fancy name.

They are obviously using a new AI denoiser with ray reconstruction, which is glaringly obvious with how much the image looks like an AI generated image with ray reconstruction enabled. It gets this cheap oil painting look, with the entire image just smeared.

The only advantage it gives is alot better motion stability for reflections in particular, but otherwise i consider the entire image a big downgrade with ray reconstruction. Ground texture and palmtree leaves shows how much detail is lost with ray recounstruction, where it's just smeared - even with the new dlss 3.7.

I reckon it will be a long time before nvidia fixes these glaring issues, if they don't have to ditch this entirely and start all over, like they did with dlss 1.0.

 

[tfdsaf]

Honestly even in Cyberpunk 2077 I can often not tell when ray tracing is on or path tracing and if one looks better than the others. They just look different!

I've not seen any game so far where ray tracing actually makes the game look and feel more realistic, it just ends up looking different and in many cases worse than the original, because it removes the artistic brush that has been made for the game by the designers.

 

[Dragam1337]

Honestly even in Cyberpunk 2077 I can often not tell when ray tracing is on or path tracing and if one looks better than the others. They just look different!

I've not seen any game so far where ray tracing actually makes the game look and feel more realistic, it just ends up looking different and in many cases worse than the original, because it removes the artistic brush that has been made for the game by the designers.

I agree with the last part, that the artistic touch can be lost... BUT... you can't tell the difference? Have a look at my post a bit further up on this very page... https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/cyberpunk-2077-game-discussion.275478/post-5189786

 

[AusWolf]

Re-read the post...

The images are comparing ray reconstruction off / on and different versions - not pathtracing on / off... there are no changes aside of ray reconstruction on / off (aka which raytracing denoiser is used).



They are obviously using a new AI denoiser with ray reconstruction, which is glaringly obvious with how much the image looks like an AI generated image with ray reconstruction enabled. It gets this cheap oil painting look, with the entire image just smeared.

The only advantage it gives is alot better motion stability for reflections in particular, but otherwise i consider the entire image a big downgrade with ray reconstruction. Ground texture and palmtree leaves shows how much detail is lost with ray recounstruction, where it's just smeared - even with the new dlss 3.7.

I reckon it will be a long time before nvidia fixes these glaring issues, if they don't have to ditch this entirely and start all over, like they did with dlss 1.0.

I tried to pixel peep, zoom in, etc... The first image is a little bit brighter than the rest? I honestly can't see anything else.

 

[Dragam1337]

Do they? Where?

Time to book an appointment at the optician.

My post points out where the differences can easily be seen.

 

[AusWolf]

Time to book an appointment at the optician.

My post points out where the differences can easily be seen.

Do you mean the ground texture is a bit smoother with ray reconstruction? It honestly took me at least 2 minutes of zoomed in focusing on a static image to notice. Or is it something else?

Whatever it is, I'm 100% sure I'd never spot any difference in a live game.

 

[Dragam1337]

Do you mean the ground texture is a bit smoother with ray reconstruction? It honestly took me at least 2 minutes of zoomed in focusing on a static image to notice. Or is it something else?

Whatever it is, I'm 100% sure I'd never spot any difference in a live game.

Dude, if you needed 2 min to spot that, then you really do need to visit an optician - no offense. That, or you're looking at this on your phone, or some stupid sh1t like that.

"A bit smoother" - alternative way of describing textures losing all fine detail...

And I'm sure nvidia were banking on people being exactly like you when they released ray reconstruction... then again, there are people who claim they can't even tell the difference between path tracing on / off, or the difference between 1440p and 4k - absolutely buggles my mind how many people have poor vision and never get proper glasses, or get laser surgery (said as someone who wears glasses).

 

[phanbuey]

Honestly even in Cyberpunk 2077 I can often not tell when ray tracing is on or path tracing and if one looks better than the others. They just look different!

I've not seen any game so far where ray tracing actually makes the game look and feel more realistic, it just ends up looking different and in many cases worse than the original, because it removes the artistic brush that has been made for the game by the designers.

This ^. I quoted the post with off and on... and yeah, it looks different for sure. But bifferent <> better, though. It's not like Gsync on vs off, or HDR on vs off where the one is clearly Better. Especially in a still shot -- in game the difference is probably much more pronounced.

 

[Dragam1337]

This ^. I quoted the post with off and on... and yeah, it looks different for sure. But bifferent <> better, though. It's not like Gsync on vs off, or HDR on vs off where the one is clearly Better. Especially in a still shot -- in game the difference is probably much more pronounced.

You can't tell that pathtracing looks better, but you claim that hdr clearly looks better... it's so backwards, it's hard to comprehend...

Pathtracing is very obviously more correctly rendered, and it's especially obvious on those 2 images - if you can't tell that, then im at a loss for words really.

As for hdr, it is more often than not really badly done in games, and because games are just rendered images anyways, it doesn't actually need to use it - it's not like footage of real life where you miss out on detail if you can't show the entire range... any difference you see between hdr and sdr in games is a deliberate choice from the devs to make the image "pop" with hdr (which an image really shouldn't, but all the "smart" people get a hardon for it) - they could easily get the same look with sdr.
It's nothing but an artistic choice in games. It's not like in planet earth documentaries where it makes an actual difference.

 

[phanbuey]

You can't tell that pathtracing looks better, but you claim that hdr clearly looks better... it's so backwards, it's hard to comprehend...

Pathtracing is very obviously more correctly rendered, and it's especially obvious on those 2 images - if you can't tell that, then im at a loss for words really.

As for hdr, it is more often than not really badly done in games, and because games are just rendered images anyways, it doesn't actually need to use it - it's not like footage of real life where you miss out on detail if you can't show the entire range... any difference you see between hdr and sdr in games is a deliberate choice from the devs to make the image "pop" with hdr (which an image really shouldn't, but all the "smart" people get a hardon for it) - they could easily get the same look with sdr.
It's nothing but an artistic choice in games. It's not like in planet earth documentaries where it makes an actual difference.

Cyberpunk has a crushed range anyways (the blacks are purposely gray) - even so HDR the brights are brigher, the darks have more depth, the lights look like real lights and hurt your eyes a bit if you stare at them... it's 'better' -- not by miles, but it's clearly an improvement of the same thing, especially with the right display.

Pathtracing makes the lighting DIFFERENT from the Cyberpunk original lighting, more correct sure, but it's sci-fi game that's obviously a videogame, with it's own rendering style, that had great raster lighting to begin with.

In quake 2, pathtracing is a huge game changer -- because the original raster lighting was horrendous compared to it. Playing it with path tracing on is miles better. Cyberpunk's raster lighting is so good that pathracing is basically 'realistic corrections to an already believable and immersive scene.' It's not a huge difference in game experience.

 

[Dragam1337]

Cyberpunk has a crushed range anyways (the blacks are purposely gray) - even so HDR the brights are brigher, the darks have more depth, the lights look like real lights and hurt your eyes a bit if you stare at them... it's 'better' -- not by miles, but it's clearly an improvement of the same thing, especially with the right display.

Pathtracing makes the lighting DIFFERENT from the Cyberpunk original lighting, more correct sure, but it's sci-fi game that's obviously a videogame, with it's own rendering style, that had great raster lighting to begin with.

In quake 2, pathtracing is a huge game changer -- because the original raster lighting was horrendous compared to it. Playing it with path tracing on is miles better. Cyberpunk's raster lighting is so good that pathracing is basically 'realistic corrections to an already believable and immersive scene.' It's not a huge difference in game experience.

Hdr in games is a nothing-burger. Literally something i always turn off. Only game i recall it actually looking better with hdr is star wars battlefront 2.

As for pathtracing and cyberpunk, you're entitled to your opinion, but i would go as far as saying that your claim is objectively incorrect.

 

[phanbuey]

Hdr in games is a nothing-burger. Literally something i always turn off. Only game i recall it actually looking better with hdr is star wars battlefront 2.

As for pathtracing and cyberpunk, you're entitled to your opinion, but i would go as far as saying that your claim is objectively incorrect.

You're also using a monitor that doesn't support HDR.