US Government Wants Nuclear Plants to Offload AI Data Center Expansion

[Bones]

Your post highlights that renewable energy implementations suffer from poor planning, evident inadequate grid preparation and the absence of a modern recycling plan for turbines, leaving them without a suitable destination after decades of service. This is what taxpayers receive: subpar service.

2021> Siemens Gamesa pioneers wind circularity: launch of world’s first recyclable wind turbine blade for commercial use offshore

Yes it does...
Along with other issues/concerns about it.

Personally I'm NOT for all this "Green" stuff like windmills, solar panels and so on but at the same time, if it's going to be done one day then it needs to be done right in the first place instead of it being a headlong rush straight to disaster which all will pay for in some way whether you'd approve or not.

While I know things will eventually change, it needs to be done "Smartly" so when it's finally implemented it actually works to serve it's purpose instead of creating stacks of headaches to go with it.
That's why I say right now things like windmills, solar panels can be used to help supplement what we get now but NOT as THE basis of power generation for all of us period.

Still too many factors against it being so, including the weather itself which you can't control anyway.

 

[LabRat 891]

Your post highlights that renewable energy implementations suffer from poor planning, evident inadequate grid preparation and the absence of a modern recycling plan for turbines, leaving them without a suitable destination after decades of service.
This is what taxpayers receive: subpar service.

Yet another case of:
"It didn't have to be this way, but it is"

 

[Imouto]

I can't help to notice that historically most people against renewables and "green stuff" are mad at them because they prove them wrong again and again and look for increasingly petty reasons to complain about.

"Here, we fixed eveything"
"Not good enough. They are still ugly to look at"
"But we finally fixed contamination forever"
"I said they are gross. Take them back"

 

[R-T-B]

subpar service.

Honestly, beats carbon emissions that will eventually kill us. I'm not opposed to Nuclear options at all to support green energy, nor hydro, but anything that burns something and emits greenhouse gas really needs to be taken off the table, yesterdecade. It's already probably past the point of return but we have to try.

 

[FoulOnWhite]

Honestly, beats carbon emissions that will eventually kill us. I'm not opposed to Nuclear options at all to support green energy, nor hydro, but anything that burns something and emits greenhouse gas really needs to be taken off the table, yesterdecade. It's already probably past the point of return but we have to try.

I honestly think it's too late. Think about the millions of cars still in use, imo it is not possible for probably decades to get all them filthy smokers off the road. Let alone trains, HGV's, tractors( probably millions of these world wide too. We have made our bed now we are lying in it.

A country like the uk with a concerted effort, could provide its entire need of electricity by nuclear, with virtually no emissions, but the gov will not pull their finger out and make it happen.

A big problem is greedy oil producers making billions, that they don't want to stop doing till the wells have fumes in them. Every GOV make a shite ton of money from tax on fuel too, where are they going to make the same amount if the taps stopped.

 

[trsttte]

Without going for a rainbow filled tirade, it's never too late, we can do it!

Now seriously, you can pick whatever metric you want but realistically it's too late to stave off terrible consequences just like it was too late a decade ago, or two decades, or whatever timeframe you want to pick as far back as the industrial revolution. We can clearly see stuff like increased rate of respiratory illnesses even though the life expectancy is increasing with more and more medical advances, this without even going into all the wildlife and natural habitats lost, etc. People often focus on whatever point of no return climate scientist throw out that week but every day that we continue to emit above the so called net zero we're doing irreperable damage.

But what's the alternative, say fuck it and step on the gas towards an ever deeper and deeper cliff or try to create a parachute to slow down the descent while we figure out a way to climb back up again? No offense but anyone who chooses the first can go throw themselves off a cliff and let the rest of us work towards the second.

 

[Bones]

I can't help to notice that historically most people against renewables and "green stuff" are mad at them because they prove them wrong again and again and look for increasingly petty reasons to complain about.

"Here, we fixed eveything"
"Not good enough. They are still ugly to look at"
"But we finally fixed contamination forever"
"I said they are gross. Take them back"

And I can't help to notice how all these "Solutions" keep on not panning out as advertised.

Nothing has been proven about concerns over it being wrong.... And it's damned foolish to not ask questions about it along the way.

The condition of the grid being one example of it is reality with rolling blackouts and all else that goes with it to this day. With all these "green" solutions supposedly already in place and working, don't you think things would have changed by now about all that if it was doing anything at all?

I'd think so because a solution, if it IS a solution fixes problems - But here we are with the same old crap still going on every day.
That's just FACT - Deny it all you want.

I have no problem with anything as long as the promises made over it are delivered, but so far that hasn't happened.

"Fixed Everything" is just bullshiite, there is no perfect solution to any of it no matter how you slice it and it's nothing more than a dream instead of reality as is.

I honestly think it's too late. Think about the millions of cars still in use, imo it is not possible for probably decades to get all them filthy smokers off the road. Let alone trains, HGV's, tractors( probably millions of these world wide too. We have made our bed now we are lying in it.

A country like the uk with a concerted effort, could provide its entire need of electricity by nuclear, with virtually no emissions, but the gov will not pull their finger out and make it happen.

A big problem is greedy oil producers making billions, that they don't want to stop doing till the wells have fumes in them. Every GOV make a shite ton of money from tax on fuel too, where are they going to make the same amount if the taps stopped.

World wide is a term that pertains to the entire world - Not just a few, select countries having to bear the burden of it while all the rest do as they want to.

I guess they all think "If we stop it here - Problem solved" but I believe we all know that's not true. You've got places like China for example still doing whatever and I've yet to hear about any sort of protests about it in places like China.
That's probrably because they know what will happen if they start it "Over There".
Make sure you have some really dedicated volunteers to head on over and get it done - If they survive it.

Also:
I'm not going to deny the big oil guys aren't fighting it - They are.
Concerning big oil - It's already been proven as fact (Over 40 years ago no less) gas engines can be much more efficient with 2-3x the mileage per gallon and far less (Almost zero) pollutants too, but big oil will not let it happen.
Shoudn't take a genius to figure out the "Why" to that one.

 

[FoulOnWhite]

Without going for a rainbow filled tirade, it's never too late, we can do it!

Now seriously, you can pick whatever metric you want but realistically it's too late to stave off terrible consequences just like it was too late a decade ago, or two decades, or whatever timeframe you want to pick as far back as the industrial revolution. We can clearly see stuff like increased rate of respiratory illnesses even though the life expectancy is increasing with more and more medical advances, this without even going into all the wildlife and natural habitats lost, etc. People often focus on whatever point of no return climate scientist throw out that week but every day that we continue to emit above the so called net zero we're doing irreperable damage.

But what's the alternative, say fuck it and step on the gas towards an ever deeper and deeper cliff or try to create a parachute to slow down the descent while we figure out a way to climb back up again? No offense but anyone who chooses the first can go throw themselves off a cliff and let the rest of us work towards the second.

I so want to be in the second. You go try telling millions of drivers in america, or the uk or spain or anywhere else they have to stop using their cars. We can make a chute to slow it, but the chute is taking far to long to deploy. We all know the problem is money being made from products that pollute, i don't think it will slow till oil starts to run out, or we actually stop using coal worldwide. trouble is what is the substitute for countries like india, pakistan etc to replace the coal they need to survive.

 

[trsttte]

I so want to be in the second. You go try telling millions of drivers in america, or the uk or spain or anywhere else they have to stop using their cars. We can make a chute to slow it, but the chute is taking far to long to deploy. We all know the problem is money being made from products that pollute, i don't think it will slow till oil starts to run out, or we actually stop using coal worldwide. trouble is what is the substitute for countries like india, pakistan etc to replace the coal they need to survive.

It's a tricky geopolitical situation and with good reason, developed countries grew on the back of cheap coal and oil and have little right to demand developing nations go the slow route with renewables. What needs to be shown (and it's slowly happening) is that you don't need coal and oil for your economy to grow and that they can use their handicap as a slingshot building things the correct way from the start without a legacy dragging them down. Where this falls on it's face is with lobbyists doing their dirty work but we'll get there, not like we have any other choice really.

 

[R-T-B]

rolling blackouts

I don't mean to make this political, but that hasn't really happened recently outside Texas, and that is precisely because of how their grid isolates itself more than anything else.

 

[Bones]

I don't mean to make this political, but that hasn't really happened recently outside Texas, and that is precisely because of how their grid isolates itself more than anything else.

It's not political.
I was referring to California, that sort of thing happens all the time out there. Remember when their gov was telling folks to NOT charge their EV cars because of the load that was already on the grid when he said not to?
That kind of stuff.

If you have an increased capacity to generate, that's one thing but it's useless if you can't deliver it.
If you can't deliver it, then why build all these things if you can't utilize what they are supposed to do and waste $$ in the process?

As some have said before, "Cart before the horse" mentality.... And isn't that what "Build Back Better" was supposed to solve?
So..... Where is the better out of it?
Or more accurately, where are the results of it?

So far, it's like looking for Waldo and no one has a clue where to look.

 

[trsttte]

I was referring to California, that sort of thing happens all the time out there. Remember when their gov was telling folks to NOT charge their EV cars because of the load that was already on the grid when he said not to?

Again, this is not a problem with renewables but a problem caused by an infrastructure in a laughable state of disrepair. Those blackouts don't care for what type of generation is being used and are done also to prevent fires because lol the grid in california is a fucking joke.

It's not a "cart before the horse", the same grid used with coal plants can be used with wind turbines, they're seperate issues. Now a real argument could be why not use some money to repair the grid before replacing power plants? Well, California is the 5th largest world economy, if they'd pull their heads out of their asses they could do both easily.

Either way this is very much an American problem not analogous to the majority of the developed world.

 

[Totally]

It's not political.
I was referring to California, that sort of thing happens all the time out there. Remember when their gov was telling folks to NOT charge their EV cars because of the load that was already on the grid when he said not to?
That kind of stuff.

If you have an increased capacity to generate, that's one thing but it's useless if you can't deliver it.
If you can't deliver it, then why build all these things if you can't utilize what they are supposed to do and waste $$ in the process?

As some have said before, "Cart before the horse" mentality.... And isn't that what "Build Back Better" was supposed to solve?
So..... Where is the better out of it?
Or more accurately, where are the results of it?

So far, it's like looking for Waldo and no one has a clue where to look.

I remember those days, lmao, arguing with a Tesla Musk fanatic over push for stricter CAFE standards. I was saying it was unrealistic because the energy grid can't support that many cars, and they pulled this nugget of bullshit out their ass saying that the next day 95% of all cars on the road can be replaced with EVs and that their energy grid would experience no issues(they were based in Cal). Not even 3 months later, Cal authorities are begging people to not charge their EVs, and turn up thermostats. Guy, knew I was coming and deleted his tweet and blocked me.

 

[Why_Me]

I don't mean to make this political, but that hasn't really happened recently outside Texas, and that is precisely because of how their grid isolates itself more than anything else.

Explain green loving California and their energy blackouts.

Again, this is not a problem with renewables but a problem caused by an infrastructure in a laughable state of disrepair. Those blackouts don't care for what type of generation is being used and are done also to prevent fires because lol the grid in california is a fucking joke.

It's not a "cart before the horse", the same grid used with coal plants can be used with wind turbines, they're seperate issues. Now a real argument could be why not use some money to repair the grid before replacing power plants? Well, California is the 5th largest world economy, if they'd pull their heads out of their asses they could do both easily.

Either way this is very much an American problem not analogous to the majority of the developed world.

PG&E told the powers that be in California for years that the underbrush needed to be cut due to the fact it was a fire hazard.

 

[Noci]

Why don't we make this discussion less complicated, let's all get a flux capacitor and get over with it

https://www.backtothefuture.store/products/back-to-the-future-flux-capacitor-prop-replica

problems solved and I can go back to play Crysis 15 on my quantum computer with full featured realistic holographic visual experience

 

[dragontamer5788]

Why don't we make this discussion less complicated, let's all get a flux capacitor and get over with it

https://www.backtothefuture.store/products/back-to-the-future-flux-capacitor-prop-replica

problems solved and I can go back to play Crysis 15 on my quantum computer with full featured realistic holographic visual experience

The flux capacitor was powered by a electricity created by a nuclear reactor though.

 

[A Computer Guy]

The flux capacitor was powered by a electricity created by a nuclear reactor though.

1.21 gigawatts if my memory is correct. Alternatively could be powered by an electric strike using the optional power antenna. (oem part only)

 

[Imouto]

And I can't help to notice how all these "Solutions" keep on not panning out as advertised.

Nothing has been proven about concerns over it being wrong.... And it's damned foolish to not ask questions about it along the way.

The condition of the grid being one example of it is reality with rolling blackouts and all else that goes with it to this day. With all these "green" solutions supposedly already in place and working, don't you think things would have changed by now about all that if it was doing anything at all?

I'd think so because a solution, if it IS a solution fixes problems - But here we are with the same old crap still going on every day.
That's just FACT - Deny it all you want.

I have no problem with anything as long as the promises made over it are delivered, but so far that hasn't happened.

"Fixed Everything" is just bullshiite, there is no perfect solution to any of it no matter how you slice it and it's nothing more than a dream instead of reality as is.

Sounds like a "you" problem to me. There are plenty of countries doing +50% of their generation with renewables without a single hitch. There are countries doing nearly 100%. Maybe the problem is corporate and your country being deregulated as hell? I dunno why you can't realize that there are other places where this stuff is working.

As for fixes not being perfect they are still fixes. I still don't get the state of mind of refusing anything but a silver bullet.

 

[INSTG8R]

When i am out on my group rides, i see so many wind turbines not spinning, even when they could or should be. so much for not turning it off.

Same I live veet close to a wind farm and can see another a few kilometres away. It usually windy around here so I always wonder why they aren’t be used. But Norway is a totally self sufficient power country relying on Hydro and Wind alone.

 

[ThrashZone]

It's not political.
I was referring to California, that sort of thing happens all the time out there. Remember when their gov was telling folks to NOT charge their EV cars because of the load that was already on the grid when he said not to?
That kind of stuff.

If you have an increased capacity to generate, that's one thing but it's useless if you can't deliver it.
If you can't deliver it, then why build all these things if you can't utilize what they are supposed to do and waste $$ in the process?

As some have said before, "Cart before the horse" mentality.... And isn't that what "Build Back Better" was supposed to solve?
So..... Where is the better out of it?
Or more accurately, where are the results of it?

So far, it's like looking for Waldo and no one has a clue where to look.

Hi,
Yep well the utilities know where to run lines and transformers to now lol
All they need now is as many investors and equipment.. as the windmills and solar companies got

It really is like the field of dreams
They built it now they will eventually come with the wiring....

 

[FoulOnWhite]

Same I live veet close to a wind farm and can see another a few kilometres away. It usually windy around here so I always wonder why they aren’t be used. But Norway is a totally self sufficient power country relying on Hydro and Wind alone.

I don't think they should ever be not spinning otherwise it is a waste. I'm sure there is always a need for the extra power they generate somewhere

 

[the54thvoid]

I don't think they should ever be not spinning otherwise it is a waste. I'm sure there is always a need for the extra power they generate somewhere

Like many folk have said - they built the turbines before expanding the infrastructure. There's literally no capacity for the excess power. The grids cost way more to develop, so they're slower to build up, and require more planning. Remember as well, that the grids carry the power from all sources, oil, gas, nuclear, renewables. There's only so much 'x' number of cables can carry. On site power stations, otoh, are a different matter - direct power generation for commercial use doesn't need the same grid infrastructure.

 

[ThrashZone]

the discussion gets funny when bird deaths are taken as an argument, especially after we have extinguished countless birds either by destroying their habitats or by hunting them directly as a sport.

Hi,
I'd say these windmills before painting them different colors were doing what you describe as extinguishing countless birds as well.

The largest difference in "sport hunting"
These people actually eat the birds after where as windmill killing fields are not so hope there are lots of snakes/... around to enjoy the slaughtered birds that were just traveling on their normal migratory paths so where is your outrage hehe

Habitat goes both ways as well so lol it's often called population expansion or job growth so pick your poison or live in an unpopulated cave somewhere deserted lol

 

[Bones]

Sounds like a "you" problem to me. There are plenty of countries doing +50% of their generation with renewables without a single hitch. There are countries doing nearly 100%. Maybe the problem is corporate and your country being deregulated as hell? I dunno why you can't realize that there are other places where this stuff is working.

As for fixes not being perfect they are still fixes. I still don't get the state of mind of refusing anything but a silver bullet.

And apparently you've (Conveniently no less) missed the part where I said, and I'll quote myself here:

I have no problem with anything as long as the promises made over it are delivered, but so far that hasn't happened.

And another:

If you have an increased capacity to generate, that's one thing but it's useless if you can't deliver it.
If you can't deliver it, then why build all these things if you can't utilize what they are supposed to do and waste $$ in the process?

As some have said before, "Cart before the horse" mentality.... And isn't that what "Build Back Better" was supposed to solve?
So..... Where is the better out of it?
Or more accurately, where are the results of it?

No it hasn't happened here and "Just because" it may (Or may not) be working in one place doesn't mean it's working everywhere.

Over here the promises of things being cheaper has gone the other way and the same old problems before are still here just as they were before these windmills and solar panels were introduced years ago as "The Solution".
Once again, it's reliant on the weather just to make it happen and that varies depending on where you are, not to mention the condition of the grid too.

I mean sure...
If you've got lots of wind all the time it makes sense to take advantage of it but you've missed the point that's not the case everywhere you go and that's something neither of us can control.
You're speaking of it the way you are because where you are it's been (According to your posts) "Good" but here, it's a different ballgame.

And don't give me the silver bullet analogy because I'm not buying it - Yes, there is no such thing as a "Perfect" fix which such a bullet would do (According to legend) but we need more than legends to make things better here. The core of it here is nothing is being fixed at all, bullet or otherwise so.....

Now - If you (As in YOU) could solve that problem over here we'd be better off and have no room to gripe about it.
It is what it is and no - I do not have to "Like" it.

Until something changes for the better here, my mind will not.

That's my say about it and that's it.
If you still want to carry on with it I'll happily let you argue back against other posts or a blank page because I've said what I've said and I stand behind it too.
I'm done here.

Hi,
I'd say these windmills before painting them different colors were doing what you describe as extinguishing countless birds as well.

The largest difference in "sport hunting"
These people actually eat the birds after where as windmill killing fields are not so hope there are lots of snakes/... around to enjoy the slaughtered birds that were just traveling on their normal migratory paths so where is your outrage hehe

Habitat goes both ways as well so lol it's often called population expansion or job growth so pick your poison or live in an unpopulated cave somewhere deserted lol

Don Quixote would like to send an invite to you for hunting some evil windmills that have been rampaging across the countryside as of late.....

 

[Denver]

Hi,
I'd say these windmills before painting them different colors were doing what you describe as extinguishing countless birds as well.

The largest difference in "sport hunting"
These people actually eat the birds after where as windmill killing fields are not so hope there are lots of snakes/... around to enjoy the slaughtered birds that were just traveling on their normal migratory paths so where is your outrage hehe

Habitat goes both ways as well so lol it's often called population expansion or job growth so pick your poison or live in an unpopulated cave somewhere deserted lol

The comparison still falls short. Turbines, unlike human activities and pollution, do not pose the same level of threat to biodiversity. If the Dodo and the passenger pigeon were still alive, they would likely question the validity of such a comparison.

Plus, It has been well established that pollution significantly contributes to the prevalence of various types of cancer, particularly lung cancer. Therefore, striving to reduce pollution to mitigate the number of deaths associated with cancer is a compelling argument IMHO. It's crazy... in 2024, there are still people advocating for the generation of energy through coal combustion.