NVIDIA Points Intel Raptor Lake CPU Users to Get Help from Intel Amid System Instability Issues

[Redwoodz]

While I applaud all the attempts to deflect this issue into something else, the bottom line is this is an Intel design fault. They knew they were pushing the limits of their silicone but they just had to have a product that outperformed the compitition in benchmarks. Reliability took a backseat with these products. This should not be.

 

[dgianstefani]

While I applaud all the attempts to deflect this issue into something else, the bottom line is this is an Intel design fault. They knew they were pushing the limits of their silicone but they just had to have a product that outperformed the compitition in benchmarks. Reliability took a backseat with these products. This should not be.

Simply not true though.

 

[nguyen]

Unnecessary for stability. Just run the actual Intel stock settings. Not the motherboard "stock" settings.

You can lock your clocks/voltage for consistent performance, but I don't see how underclocking will give better performance than actual stock settings. Especially as the CPU will still have variable clocks unless you do a static tune.

So the recommended approach suggested by the article which is underclocking the 13th/14th K series is not true? I find it's very accurate actually.

BTW my friend who is a distributor for Intel has been saying he had to take in lots of RMA for Intel 14th gen, so the article is actually very legit

 

[Ravenmaster]

That's a sweeping and inaccurate statement, as it doesn't apply across the board. For example I've been running my X570, 3700x then 5900x, 1080Ti, then 3070 then 4080 - over the last few years and its been no less stable than the Z97/4790k/1080ti I had running a few years before that.

Regarding this article, I bet a "pound to a pinch of s**t" that this instability issue is 100% down to the fact almost ALL mobo makers are not running the intel CPU's at Intel specifications. As in they have the power and other limits unlocked by default. J2Cs did a video showing just how user-unfriendly it actually is to set the 12/13/14 gen CPUs to intel specs -

This ^

I have been running my 14900KF since launch day without any issues because I turned off the AI Overclocking feature in my motherboard’s BIOS. The CPU has been running on intel’s recommended settings. Not a single issue been had.

 

[dgianstefani]

So the recommended approach suggested by the article which is underclocking the 13th/14th K series is not true? I find it's very accurate actually.

BTW my friend who is a distributor for Intel has been saying he had to take in lots of RMA for Intel 14th gen, so the article is actually very legit

Yep. Because most Z series motherboards aren't running Intel stock spec. They're doing their own thing. Most users don't know how to tune either, or properly navigate a bios, meaning the problematic "stock" settings as set by the board manufacturers cause issues like this.

Since it's not the board maker who has to deal with returns etc. There's no real consequence if they screw up their "ai boost" or whatever they choose to call their "optimised defaults" etc.

 

[Daven]

That's a sweeping and inaccurate statement, as it doesn't apply across the board.

See comments above.

 

[phanbuey]

Im curious to see what boards are affected. I've not built with the 14th gen, but the 12th and 13th gen builds have been rock solid.

 

[FeelinFroggy]

Sorry for the early morning sarcasm, everyone.

People here are way too serious for sarcasm, especially so early in the morning. They have to defend their brand like they were the chip's designers.

The reality is both Intel and AMD make great CPUs.

 

[dj-electric]

Im curious to see what boards are affected. I've not built with the 14th gen, but the 12th and 13th gen builds have been rock solid.

I feel like some people might be horrified to know how wide auto-OC is by default on motherboards. This isn't some edge case. The very vast majority of combinations are by-default running over Intel's specs for turbo PL time

 

[dgianstefani]

I feel like some people might be horrified to know how wide auto-OC is by default on motherboards. This isn't some edge case. The very vast majority of combinations are by-default running over Intel's specs for turbo PL time

Tbh it's past time for the CPU makers to have some words with the motherboard makers regarding this.

 

[evernessince]

We don't know the cause yet but I wouldn't be surprised if it were motherboard vendors pushing overly aggressive voltages out of the box again.

 

[Onasi]

Tbh it's past time for the CPU makers to have some words with the motherboard makers regarding this.

Yeah, I’ve been ranting about this for couple generations now. Stock, out-of-box experience should always be 1-to-1 manufacturer spec. No ifs, no buts. I couldn’t give less of a f*ck if that means that all motherboards are identical performance-wise (they should be) and vendors will have to compete on other features. I also have nothing against having EasyOC/Turbo/NoLimits modes as something that the user can choose later with an appropriate warning. But running chips out of spec on the FIRST BOOT as a DEFAULT setting is just madness and I absolutely think that Intel and AMD should give out slaps to the back of the head for this.

 

[Event Horizon]

Motherboard manufacturers try to win benchmarks by raising various voltages and power limits above the default. Stock should mean stock.

 

[b1k3rdude]

the bottom line is this is an Intel design fault.

Incorrect, see - https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...system-instability-issues.321461/post-5235455

 

[Dr. Dro]

Now AMD is having platform issues with its CPUs and games. And they just recently had GPU driver crashes in a gaming tournament.

PGL Investigating GeForce RTX 4080 GPU Driver Crash, Following Esports Event Disruption | TechPowerUp}

Why would anyone buy AMD with so many problems? An Intel-Nvidia platform is much more stable.

The simple fact no one even considers Radeon hardware for tournaments tells you absolutely everything you need to know about it. Out of the thousands of eSports events, one card crashes, and we don't even know the rest of the specs involved.

So the recommended approach suggested by the article which is underclocking the 13th/14th K series is not true? I find it's very accurate actually.

BTW my friend who is a distributor for Intel has been saying he had to take in lots of RMA for Intel 14th gen, so the article is actually very legit

It's not actually necessary, but the very aggressive clocks leave little room for error: you must absolutely ensure that your thermals, power delivery, general airflow and motherboard are all up to the task, and this is where it'll come to bite most gamers in their behind: people tend to cheap out on the board, use some cheap tower heatsink with whatever TIM comes with it, "just enable XMP bro", etc.

All of it is user error induced by gamer laziness, and that's why you're reading about these things. The chips themselves don't have any issues, it's just that you're nuckin' futs if you think you're going to be running a 5.5 to 6 GHz CPU on the conditions you're going to encounter on your average cigarette smoke and cat fur collector hotbox of a gaming PC.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
It would be pretty boring if all there was is intel spec's lol

By the way recent bios do ask if you want to stick to intel spec's or push it hehe

 

[Voodoo Rufus]

I wonder if this is the cause of my issues lately (13900KS / 3080Ti). I did a BIOS update a couple months ago, and haven't been able to run any games since. Some crash right when 3D is activated, others completely at random, but never more than 5 minutes from 3D load start. Wiping the OS hasn't helped, and I've been trying to get the motivation to tear into the GPU side of things for troubleshooting.

Never occurred to me that the CPU/BIOS side might be the culprit, but it's definitely possible.

 

[P4-630]

I wonder if this is the cause of my issues lately. I did a BIOS update a couple months ago, and haven't been able to run any games since. Some crash right when 3D is activated, others completely at random, but never more than 5 minutes from 3D load start. Wiping the OS hasn't helped, and I've been trying to get the motivation to tear into the GPU side of things for troubleshooting.

Never occurred to me that the CPU/BIOS side might be the culprit, but it's definitely possible.

If your system specs are still upto date : CPU "9900KS" it doesn't concern your CPU.

 

[Voodoo Rufus]

Yeah that needs updating. It's currently a Asus Z790 Hero, 13900KS and 3080Ti.

 

[evernessince]

The simple fact no one even considers Radeon hardware for tournaments tells you absolutely everything you need to know about it. Out of the thousands of eSports events, one card crashes, and we don't even know the rest of the specs involved.

If you read his 2nd comment, you'd know he was being sarcastic.

You do a good job of demonstrating why people take comments like that at face value though, there are people who actually have such a radicalized POV that regularly espouse it here on TPU.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Yeah that needs updating. It's currently a Asus Z790 Hero, 13900KS and 3080Ti.

I've had some WHEA BSODs at random, I fully understand it's supposed to be a hardware issue, but the one thing I noticed is that Discord was the trigger and whenever it was about to happen, the checkerboarding problem on Chromium (one of the rare few persistent NVIDIA driver bugs) would go out of control. Closing the Discord client all but fixed it.

Most mobo manufacturers have recently released a new BIOS that optimizes undervolting on Raptor and brings some additional stability improvements, you should see if ASUS made that available for you already. MSI posted it for my MEG Z690 ACE yesterday.

If you read his 2nd comment, you'd know he was being sarcastic.

You do a good job of demonstrating why people take comments like that at face value though, there are people who actually have such a radicalized POV that regularly espouse it here on TPU.

Worst is that i'm not even radicalized, it's a reflection of my own experience.

 

[nguyen]

Yep. Because most Z series motherboards aren't running Intel stock spec. They're doing their own thing. Most users don't know how to tune either, or properly navigate a bios, meaning the problematic "stock" settings as set by the board manufacturers cause issues like this.

Since it's not the board maker who has to deal with returns etc. There's no real consequence if they screw up their "ai boost" or whatever they choose to call their "optimised defaults" etc.

Previous Intel CPUs didn't get widespread instabilities or even degradation with unlimited TDP, this practice with motherboard makers have been pretty much the standard for a long time, seems like quality control at Intel dropped the balls hard (selling chips that should not be sold).

Kinda remind me of Boeing lol, prioritise profit over everything else has come full circle.

 

[dgianstefani]

Previous Intel CPUs didn't get widespread instabilities or even degradation with unlimited TDP, this practice with motherboard makers have been pretty much the standard for a long time, seems like quality control at Intel dropped the balls hard (selling chips that should not be sold).

Kinda remind me of Boeing lol, prioritise profit over everything else has come full circle.

Speculation.

People who run at (actual) stock aren't having issues. Nor are people who manually set voltages, even those who are overclocking past stock.

 

[Onasi]

I think the whole thread can be summarized by saying that all those years ago Intel made a promise and it seems like we’re still not there.
(I just like to remind myself of that particular prediction/plan and chuckling at how wildly off base it was)

 

[ThrashZone]

Speculation.

People who run at (actual) stock aren't having issues. Nor are people who manually set voltages, even those who are overclocking past stock.

Hi,
Well xmp profiles are well known to kick the voltages up and so does multicore enhancement which is also enabled when xmp profile is so does this qualify as stock if not people are wasting a lot of money on higher than standard memory speeds hehe