Finally a lithium starting battery

[Shrek]

Finally a lithium starting battery

DL+ 12v 60Ah Dual 1000CCA Starter Plus for Deep Cycle Battery (dakotalithium.com)

1000 CCA

 

[tabascosauz]

Don't those pocket-sized noco starter batteries already do 1000CCA and more?

I'm more interested in its ability to continuously power equipment. Still have a Viair 450P that I refuse to let go of but struggling to make use of after switching to EV. Tried those noco jump starter batteries, they're not capable of running that stuff.

Not gonna pay $600 for one though.

 

[maxfly]

Sales pitch sounds great but I can't see myself buying a battery for my truck from an etailer.

 

[Caring1]

Half the weight, Twice the power, and at only six times the price of a standard battery. Bargain.

 

[FoulOnWhite]

I got a lithium battery for my motorcycle, amazing the difference in weight, and still more than the power of the crappy lead acid dinosaur.

 

[dgianstefani]

It's not just the fact that you get more power, it's that the battery is usable from 10-100% charge. Voltage drop doesn't happen at below 60% capacity like on lead acid.

 

[Ferrum Master]

I'm pretty amused that usage of super capacitators are pretty limited in car industry, they have developed hugely to aid conventional batteries, as they... have insanely good lifetime and astonishing current capabilities.

 

[Shrek]

I converted a USP unit to super-capacitors to cover power glitches up to a minute or so.

Replacing a UPS Battery With Super-Capacitors : 5 Steps - Instructables

Made my own carrier

 

[LabRat 891]

Don't those pocket-sized noco starter batteries already do 1000CCA and more?

I'm more interested in its ability to continuously power equipment. Still have a Viair 450P that I refuse to let go of but struggling to make use of after switching to EV. Tried those noco jump starter batteries, they're not capable of running that stuff.

Not gonna pay $600 for one though.

Yes/No. Noco in particular on/off goes through periods of very scammy-spec'd products.
Early Project Farm did several videos w/ Noco's products back then, and the generic 'import' jumpstarters, etc. were more capable.
*all* lie on their actual CCA capability, with most of the consumer-facing starter packs melting their leads during max-CCA load testing.

Also, most-all of those 'pocket size' starters, use Lithium Polymer packs like the new DeWalt tool batteries. (not LiFePo4 'cans')

$600 is *almost* reasonable. However, I could never use such a battery; it actually gets cold where I live, in the winter.

Half the weight, Twice the power, and at only six times the price of a standard battery. Bargain.

If you're 'thumping' with car audio kit, this 1 much lighter battery could replace the primary *and* secondary batteries.
For specific use-cases, yes. $599 is a bargain.

I pretty amused that usage of super capacitators are pretty limited in car industry, they have developed hugely to aid conventional batteries, as they... have insanely good lifetime and astonishing current capabilities.

My guess, the literal Lead-Acid cartel doesn't want their market 'muscled in on'. In industrial automotive, etc. they seem to be in more-common use.

Amazon.com

B Stock IOXUS 12V Group 31 Smart Power Bluetooth Ultra Capacitor | eBay

B Stock IOXUS 12V Group 31 Smart Power Bluetooth Ultra Capacitor.

www.ebay.com

This particular IOXUS 12V Supercap model, has been available in 'surplus' for over a year. Clearly, *something* that was built and sold using these things, semi-recently were retired from service.

IOXUS – IOXUS Smart Power

ioxus.com

 

[Dr. Dro]

My guess, the literal Lead-Acid cartel doesn't want their market 'muscled in on'. In industrial automotive, etc. they seem to be in more-common use.

Amazon.com

B Stock IOXUS 12V Group 31 Smart Power Bluetooth Ultra Capacitor | eBay

B Stock IOXUS 12V Group 31 Smart Power Bluetooth Ultra Capacitor.

www.ebay.com

This particular IOXUS 12V Supercap model, has been available in 'surplus' for over a year. Clearly, *something* that was built and sold using these things, semi-recently were retired from service.

IOXUS – IOXUS Smart Power

ioxus.com

I must admit that a movie scene came up in my head when I read "Lead-Acid cartel"

Isn't the automotive sector pretty much the only one left where lead-acid type batteries are still widely used?

 

[Shrek]

Amazon.com

B Stock IOXUS 12V Group 31 Smart Power Bluetooth Ultra Capacitor | eBay

B Stock IOXUS 12V Group 31 Smart Power Bluetooth Ultra Capacitor.

www.ebay.com

This particular IOXUS 12V Supercap model, has been available in 'surplus' for over a year. Clearly, *something* that was built and sold using these things, semi-recently were retired from service.

IOXUS – IOXUS Smart Power

ioxus.com

24WHr, so could hold up a computer for a few minutes, but only about 1/20 the capacity of a car battery.

Might be a good alternative for a UPS

 

[LabRat 891]

I must admit that a movie scene came up in my head when I read "Lead-Acid cartel"

Isn't the automotive sector pretty much the only one left where lead-acid type batteries are still widely used?

Yes (and forklifts+cranes, IIRC. Tho, Lithiums have found their way into those 'industrial' applications, too.).

Which, is why there's only a handful of companies DESPERATELY trying to stay relevant.
(last I checked, for most automotive Lead-Acids in US, there were 2 major conglomerates w/ MANY sub-brands/manufactureres)
Also, why a lot of "North American production" Lead Acids are made in MX.

TBQH, given the active hostility towards the long-standing technology they produce... I can't blame 'em.
Esp. since those same companies helped to implement (consumer-facing) safe and sane lead recycling* (a necessity once US's last lead smelter was shuttered)

*Note, that esp. outside of US, regulations and safety of workers in lead reclamation, sucks...

24WHr, so could hold up a computer for a few minutes, but only about 1/20 the capacity of a car battery.

Might be a good alternative for a UPS

Low Capacity, extreme Current, effectively indefinite cycle life, 0 off-gassing. Yeah, could be a good choice there.

Self-Discharge characteristics aside, a great replacement for Stop-Start equipped cars and primary 'SLI' replacement. Also, unlike Lithium batteries, SuperCaps will still operate in cold.

(Potentially, good for DIY Cell Spot Welders, too)


IIRC, I've seen more than a few people take 'motorcycle' batteries, and use them in paralel with supercap 'boosters'.

There's a decade+ of studies on Battery+SuperCap parralel operation. The caps absorb transient loads and starting current, the battery provides the 'bulk' storage.
Given that this *can* greatly reduce the amp load on the battery, the battery can be much smaller/lighter w/ a much longer lifespan (in-use).

 

[Ferrum Master]

My guess, the literal Lead-Acid cartel doesn't want their market 'muscled in on'. In industrial automotive, etc. they seem to be in more-common use.

At work with other techs we actually concluded the same actually... it is a headscratcher... we have everything really, but nope... weird world we live in.

 

[GhostRyder]

Finally a lithium starting battery

DL+ 12v 60Ah Dual 1000CCA Starter Plus for Deep Cycle Battery (dakotalithium.com)

1000 CCA

I have been following these, however I am still a bit confused on some of the marketing/information on the battery when used in normal Boat/Car applications. Mostly because they mention that you should charge it to full with a special lithium charger (Will charge normally to 80% with a normal charger) and I would be curious how it is when using it on a car long term. I have been curious about its internal battery management system on it.

At work with other techs we actually concluded the same actually... it is a headscratcher... we have everything really, but nope... weird world we live in.

There are super cars that use lithium starter batteries. But I think alot of the issue has been charging systems in cars not being able to manage lithium.

 

[dgianstefani]

There are super cars that use lithium starter batteries. But I think alot of the issue has been charging systems in cars not being able to manage lithium.

Yes, lead acid and lithium require different charge controllers, or at least a charge controller with different modes depending on the battery used. Moving my motorhome from classic lead acid to newer lithium leisure batteries required a new charge controller. Thankfully the performance is much better, both in power delivery/charging, and in longevity.

One thing I don't like about lead acid batteries is they need ventilation and are more easily damaged, which makes them unsuitable for certain enclosures and use cases. They're more suited for static energy storage IMO, on a farm or something like that.

 

[LabRat 891]

They're more suited for static energy storage IMO, on a farm or something like that.

100%. They're heavy! Largely non-issue for 'static' installations like solar or whole-home UPS,.

 

[unwind-protect]

Porsche has been offering lithium ion batteries as an upgrade on some of their light cars for at least 10 years.

 

[Shrek]

Do you know if it ran with the original charging system?

 

[LabRat 891]

Do you know if it ran with the original charging system?

Dunno, but...
Many Lithium AGM/SLI-style replacement batteries have their own BMS and regulation onboard. Some even have resistive heating in-built for use in sub-optimal temperatures*.

*Which, is hilarious to me. You literally have the battery wasting power, to be able to make power.

 

[Shrek]

I have been following these, however I am still a bit confused on some of the marketing/information on the battery when used in normal Boat/Car applications. Mostly because they mention that you should charge it to full with a special lithium charger (Will charge normally to 80% with a normal charger) and I would be curious how it is when using it on a car long term. I have been curious about its internal battery management system on it.


There are super cars that use lithium starter batteries. But I think alot of the issue has been charging systems in cars not being able to manage lithium.

Since lithium batteries last a lot longer when only taken to 80% I would be keen NOT to use a special charger...

 

[Fokker]

Finally a lithium starting battery

DL+ 12v 60Ah Dual 1000CCA Starter Plus for Deep Cycle Battery (dakotalithium.com)

1000 CCA

I've been using one of these in my S2000 for years.

Battery Tender® 8.0AH 480CA Lithium Engine Start Battery

INCLUDES- Quick Disconnect Cable with a battery reset button to activate battery charging- Quad terminals to cross connect to more AGM models and provide easy accessory hookup and installation- Foam Inserts to fit any battery compartment and absorb vibrations- Smart Battery Management System...

www.deltran-global.com

Dunno, but...
Many Lithium AGM/SLI-style replacement batteries have their own BMS and regulation onboard. Some even have resistive heating in-built for use in sub-optimal temperatures*.

*Which, is hilarious to me. You literally have the battery wasting power, to be able to make power.

Many dealers sell battery blankets for cold weather environments that waste energy to increase the amount of energy you can draw from the traditional lead-acid battery. There's no getting around physics: the colder it gets, the slower chemical reactions are and the less energy can be provided by any battery. LFE batteries start having a harder time discharging once you get down to 40 F.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

My guess, the literal Lead-Acid cartel doesn't want their market 'muscled in on'. In industrial automotive, etc. they seem to be in more-common use.

My guess: if there is one thing that hates the cold more then lead acid batteries, it's lithium. The literal tens of MILLIONS of cars that sit outside in 0 degree weather overnight are going to destroy those lithium batteries in short order, then you, the manufacturer, are on the hook for tens of millions of $600 car batteries.

 

[wolf]

been rocking a Lithium start battery in my motorcycle for years now, SSD Powersport, more CCA's by about 50% over a lead acrid while weighing about 1/3rd iirc. Great on a bike where every kilo counts. On a passenger car weighing well over 1000kg though, eh. For the price difference I can wait.

 

[LabRat 891]

My guess: if there is one thing that hates the cold more then lead acid batteries, it's lithium. The literal tens of MILLIONS of cars that sit outside in 0 degree weather overnight are going to destroy those lithium batteries in short order, then you, the manufacturer, are on the hook for tens of millions of $600 car batteries.

I was speaking towards Super/Ultra Capacitors, not Lithium Batteries.
Super/Ultra Caps are *much* more thermally tolerant, but very low (usable) capacity vs. a Lead-Acid or Lithium "battery".

AFAIK, it's not uncommon to pair a Supercap w/ a Secondary Cell/battery; both individuals and industry use them to absorb transient currents (like engine starting).
[Ex. a small moto/UPS AGM+SuperCap bank can replace a single large Automotive Flooded or AGM lead-acid. ie. Weight savings w/o as much of a cold climate concern.]
The commercialized assembly (for lithiums) is called an HSL, or hybrid supercapacitor-lithium.

From what I recall reading, due to less peak current draw on the (chemical storage) battery, effective capacity and cycle life is increased dramatically.
[Batteries have less effective capacity the 'heavier' the current draw, typically.]

been rocking a Lithium start battery in my motorcycle for years now, SSD Powersport, more CCA's by about 50% over a lead acrid while weighing about 1/3rd iirc. Great on a bike where every kilo counts. On a passenger car weighing well over 1000kg though, eh. For the price difference I can wait.

If you live someplace temperate year-round, they're a great investment [from what I've read and gathered in research].
Especially on a bike, the weight savings and high current (low Vdroop) that's available must seem fantastic.

 

[Shrek]

been rocking a Lithium start battery in my motorcycle for years now, SSD Powersport, more CCA's by about 50% over a lead acrid while weighing about 1/3rd iirc. Great on a bike where every kilo counts. On a passenger car weighing well over 1000kg though, eh. For the price difference I can wait.

How does the capacity compare?