Premium DisplayPort 2.1 & HDMI 2.1 cables

[R-T-B]

I don't trust Monoprice for DP and HDMI, anymore.

My hdmi forum rated 2.1 ones have been good but there's a bad apple in every batch of course, the question is not if but how many.

 

[dirtyferret]

Yeah no, the factories are moving there, same for a lot of other things. I was busy sourcing cables for a company last year around this time and most of the companies I talked to were either working with factories outside of the PRC or had moved their own factories outside of the PRC, of which most were in Vietnam, but some in Taiwan and Malaysia a well.

Agreed, way too many random letter name companies on Amazon these days.

Interesting as the person who handles our PRC production had the factories telling him Vietnam was tough for full production (I know companies like Netgear have factories there). India was another country factories were looking to move production to.

The Amazon customers don't think so.

Amazon customer reviews? truly a whose who of audio and videophiles experts

 

[TheLostSwede]

Interesting as the person who handles our PRC production had the factories telling him Vietnam was tough for full production (I know companies like Netgear have factories there). India was another country factories were looking to move production to.

Well, the companies I met with had their own fabs, so I guess they didn't have any issues. Some were also producing GaN chargers there.
Asus has moved some of its router production there too, not sure if it's just assembly, or full production.
Many Taiwanese companies are looking at moving production there.
India is obviously trying to win some business as well, but they're a bit behind.

 

[Onasi]

I think that the situation is fairly binary - do you get any visual oddities with the cable you are using, being it something that came bundled with your monitor or any other one?

Yes? Then you might want to look into sourcing one that is a known good quality, as mentioned above, from brands that are properly certified. I find Ugreen usually being both quite inexpensive and problem-free.

No? Then it’s fine. A “better” cable, no matter how expensive, will not provide any improvements to the picture quality. As was already said, it’s a digital signal. If there are issues, then it ISN’T working as intended by definition.

The whole discussion has already been done to death, not only in monitors. It reminds me of audiophiles arguing over 1000 bucks USB cables for their DACs to “improve” sound. It doesn’t really matter even for headphone cables, and those aren’t digital. I have a nice Openheart for my desktop cans, but it has nothing to do with sound. In that regard, it is no different from a bundled Sennheiser one. I got it just because it was perfect length, nice and flexible and just overall better feeling.

 

[Arctucas]

I just buy Cable Matters cables on Amazon.

Not the cheapest, not the most expensive, but definitely good quality.

 

[natr0n]

Cable quality mattered more with analog cables more than now a days.
For example classic consoles PS2/Saturn

 

[Tahagomizer]

"Premium" is very important because it makes people think the product is higher quality, therefore it fetches a higher price.
What's actually important is the internal structure and shielding, but no price or marketing buzzword gives you any indication of the this. There are very few sources of proper cable reviews anywhere, so usually it's "buy, if it works it works, if it doesn't return it.". Thankfully, with digital signals it's very obvious.

"Audiofool" types have it much harder, I've seen long discussions about expensive optical SPDiF fibers adding "color and personality" to music and HDMI cables affecting "depth and emotion" of movies. Seriously, such people exist and have voting rights...

What occasionally grinds my gears are the latches on DP connectors.

 

[ARF]

Amazon customer reviews? truly a whose who of audio and videophiles experts

These are end-users first-person feedbacks. Are we gonna ignore them?

Does the HDMI cable quality matter?

Answer (1 of 10): The quality of a digital signal can not be degraded by the brand of the cable you are using. So an HDMI cable that cost you $100 will work just as good as a $5 HDMI cable as long as both are in good condition. The only thing I’ve noticed about the more expensive cables compared ...

www.quora.com

 

[R-T-B]

These are end-users first-person feedbacks. Are we gonna ignore them?

That's why you just buy the cheapest cable that's certified, do you even read what you post?

At any rate the encoding schemes used in hdmi makes random bit flips like he described pretty unlikely. It's more likely to lose a whole frame before that happens (stutter).

So yeah, I'm gonna happily ignore 99% of the amazonian and quora placebo mob. Thank you.

 

[ARF]

That's why you just buy the cheapest cable that's certified

Why? The cheapest is often the lowest quality (for example plastic connector, instead of metal one, thinner copper wires, etc.), so I disagree.

 

[Onasi]

At any rate the encoding schemes used in hdmi makes random bit flips like he described pretty unlikely. It's more likely to lose a whole frame before that happens (stutter).

I stopped reading at the “signal most often transferred is YCbCr” bit. HDMI is 8/10b encoded RGB. It’s the base spec. YCbCr support is actually optional and usually is just done via conversion on the display device. And , as you said, not only is such a bit flip unlikely, the data stream on HDMI actually includes error correction packets and, in any case, the base data island is not even a single pixel, so if shit hits the fan you aren’t getting just “pixels appear wrong”, you get actual artifacts. Even more so on ultra high speed 2.1 which has tighter encoding and, as such, will definitely be more sensitive to actual data loss.

In short - Jessie, what the f**k are you talking about? If your cable is scuffed, you will notice immediately, no dark room pixel peeping needed.

 

[AusWolf]

There is a difference between a cheap and premium cable?

It depends on your use case.

With a 1080p 60 Hz monitor sitting a metre away from your PC, there isn't. However, if you increase your resolution, refresh rate, or distance from the PC/player, then a better quality cable becomes more important.

 

[ARF]

I stopped reading at the “signal most often transferred is YCbCr” bit. HDMI is 8/10b encoded RGB. It’s the base spec. YCbCr support is actually optional and usually is just done via conversion on the display device. And , as you said, not only is such a bit flip unlikely, the data stream on HDMI actually includes error correction packets and, in any case, the base data island is not even a single pixel, so if shit hits the fan you aren’t getting just “pixels appear wrong”, you get actual artifacts. Even more so on ultra high speed 2.1 which has tighter encoding and, as such, will definitely be more sensitive to actual data loss.

In short - Jessie, what the f**k are you talking about? If your cable is scuffed, you will notice immediately, no dark room pixel peeping needed.

They should include a Signal Strength / Signal Quality indicators on the monitors, just that the users themselves can see in front of them the quality of the said cables they use.
That's in digital satellite television:

The FEC rate can be 1/2, 3/4, 5/6, 7/8...

 

[xtreemchaos]

its 50/50 my gaming rigg i use like 2.1 and my work rigg " 1440p & 1080p"is a mix of good n cheapish and my Xeon play thing "1440p &1080p" is what ever i had laying around which is mostly cheap leads my gaming rigg is the only one i run at 4k.

 

[Onasi]

They should include a Signal Strength / Signal Quality indicators on the monitors, just that the users themselves can see in front of them the quality of the said cables they use.
That's in digital satellite television:

View attachment 350743

View attachment 350744

The FEC rate can be 1/2, 3/4, 5/6, 7/8...

Or, you know, just a crazy thought, if the user sees that their screen is covered in black artifacts, colors are inverted, the screen doesn’t support the advertised refresh or the picture is blatantly dropping frames - THAT might be an indicator that something is maybe just a tad wrong and the cable might be to blame.
Because that is what a cable failure actually looks like in a digital video signal interface. Not “muh pixels aren’t soulful enough and the picture lacks vibrance”. That would be the function of the panel and its settings/setup.

 

[Dr. Dro]

I use premium cables, but not because the image quality is higher, it's because they are certified and generally work without any issues.

Club 3D is the good stuff. Their cables are certified (and you can verify it), and they deliver what's on the tin. Worth the money.

 

[Onasi]

I use premium cables, but not because the image quality is higher, it's because they are certified and generally work without any issues.

It also helps that it’s something that you can buy and forget and never worry about shit bundled cables. It will also probably not really go bad or break (unless you are @TheLostSwede, apparently, RIP to a real one). That 16K Ugreen shown off in the OP is what, 20 bucks? That’s a reasonable price for something that will just work for years. But when one starts talking about 200 and up “premium” snake oil and how it totally made one’s image quality significantly better - that’s when I will call that person a moron.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I use premium cables, but not because the image quality is higher, it's because they are certified and generally work without any issues.

Club 3D is the good stuff. Their cables are certified (and you can verify it), and they deliver what's on the tin. Worth the money.

Isn't anything half decent massively upcharged in your country?

I feel like you were talking about cables with someone and they were like 120 usd with shipping lol but maybe I'm mistaken.

 

[ARF]

Or, you know, just a crazy thought, if the user sees that their screen is covered in black artifacts, colors are inverted, the screen doesn’t support the advertised refresh or the picture is blatantly dropping frames - THAT might be an indicator that something is maybe just a tad wrong and the cable might be to blame.
Because that is what a cable failure actually looks like in a digital video signal interface. Not “muh pixels aren’t soulful enough and the picture lacks vibrance”. That would be the function of the panel and its settings/setup.

We need Artificial Intelligence and smart monitors, because not all users are able to see...

That 16K Ugreen shown off in the OP is what, 20 bucks? That’s a reasonable price for something that will just work for years. But when one starts talking about 200 and up “premium” snake oil and how it totally made one’s image quality significantly better - that’s when I will call that person a moron.

Yes, the idea is to be able to distinguish between the crappy cables that come with the monitors, and such higher quality cables that sell for 20 bucks, instead of for 2 bucks

 

[Onasi]

We need Artificial Intelligence and smart monitors, because not all users are able to see...

The artifacts resulting from a digital video cable failing are something that one can only be “unable to see” if one is Stevie Wonder. Period. If the cable functions properly, replacing it with a “better” one will result in exactly zero changes.

 

[Dr. Dro]

These are end-users first-person feedbacks. Are we gonna ignore them?

View attachment 350707

Does the HDMI cable quality matter?

Answer (1 of 10): The quality of a digital signal can not be degraded by the brand of the cable you are using. So an HDMI cable that cost you $100 will work just as good as a $5 HDMI cable as long as both are in good condition. The only thing I’ve noticed about the more expensive cables compared ...

www.quora.com

This answer is incorrect. HDMI (up to 2.0 at least) utilizes a digital TMDS-based bitstream.

Transition-minimized differential signaling - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This person's post describes an analog Component RGB cable (triple RCA input). Any electrical noise in the HDMI cable would disrupt the bitstream and cause a scrambled image due to incomplete data reaching the other end.

Isn't anything half decent massively upcharged in your country?

I feel like you were talking about cables with someone and they were like 120 usd with shipping lol but maybe I'm mistaken.

It really depends. There's different taxation rules regarding businesses that import things, so they aren't as expensive as long as things are already inside our country. The government foolishly applies these protectionist measures in an attempt to "protect local industry and the economy against currency excursion", it's some nonsense mentality from a century ago.

The Club3D HDMI 2.1 cable I have cost me $20 USD, for example. Otherwise Brazil would be unsustainable, the country simply does not have the technology necessary to even remotely keep up with the rest of the world.

 

[R-T-B]

I love how ARF just uses the laugh emoji in the face of cited facts. I don't think this is going anywhere, guys.

 

[Onasi]

@R-T-B
I mean, we ARE talking about the same guy who claimed that DSC is visually lossy while also, in the same post, providing (as evidence, question mark?) an article explicitly stating that DSC is visually lossless, was created with this specific goal and, for all intents and purposes, succeeded in it.

So, uh…yeah, I think the topic is kinda open and shut. Have problems? Acquire a fully certified to spec cable from a reputable brand, they aren’t exorbitantly expensive. No problems? Don’t bother, everything works.

 

[ARF]

@R-T-B
I mean, we ARE talking about the same guy who claimed that DSC is visually lossy while also, in the same post, providing (as evidence, question mark?) an article explicitly stating that DSC is visually lossless, was created with this specific goal and, for all intents and purposes, succeeded in it.

So, uh…yeah, I think the topic is kinda open and shut. Have problems? Acquire a fully certified to spec cable from a reputable brand, they aren’t exorbitantly expensive. No problems? Don’t bother, everything works.

DSC on the other hand needed to be computationally cheap (to make implementation cheap) and low latency, all the while still offering significant compression ratios and doing so with minimal image quality losses.

VESA and MIPI Announce Display Stream Compression Standard

www.anandtech.com

Fact sheet:
1) It supports all important image coding options: both RGB and YCbCr, chroma subsampling and any bit depth.
2) The compression ratio is almost steplessly adjustable.
3) Requires very simple computations.
4) Operates on very small buffer (one line of pixels at most) so it does not introduce any lag by itself.
5) For a 30 bit per pixel image the compression which yields best quality is 15 bit per pixel (50%). That's very weak compression compared to most modern image codecs, so even if the codec is weak it won't yield a lot of errors.
6) It's lossy compression. "Visually lossless" may be objectively true but it's a lie to say that it's lossless.
7) Compression yields stream with very consistent bitrate.

How does DSC affect image quality? - Blur Busters Forums

I have just upgraded my DP cable coming in my LG UD58-B 4K monitor box with the ultra-high quality Ugreen 16K DP 2.1 cable for 20 bucks, and you know what - the image is now crystal clear, very colourful, vibrant. With the previous cable, it wasn't the case - much worse image quality, kind of graining, and images resembling analogue signal with worsened strength and quality.
Obviously, that old cable was a bottleneck with its low bandwidth.

 

[R-T-B]

You don't know what "visually lossy" means or something?

Not even going to touch the rest of that.