Windows 11 General Discussion

[Chomiq]

Tried the full Outlook but that does not work with my YubiKey although the free Outlook does... quite the mess.

No ads today... so far...

Ads are only displayed if you go to the specific folder, i.e. Inbox.

But yeah, Thunderbird ftw.

 

[Onasi]

Interesting side note, my Win 10 LTSC keys did not work to activate 11 LTSC. That might not be a serious thing, or it might. We will see when the final release comes around.

Who knows what they do when release rolls around, but previously each new major Ent release (i.e based on a new OS) operated on the “each release a distinct product with a distinct key” model. On MS 11 LTSC page they already mention that this is “clean install” release only with no upgrading possible, so I would assume they will treat it the same key-wise.

 

[lexluthermiester]

On MS 11 LTSC page they already mention that this is “clean install” release only with no upgrading possible, so I would assume they will treat it the same key-wise.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Gonna have to find and buy a couple of keys.

@ microsoft
Don't supposed you all would like to be a decent sort and make 11 LTSC available to power users for a reasonable, if premium, price, eh? That would go a long way to fostering good will with a lot of us.

 

[Onasi]

Don't supposed you all would like to be a decent sort and make 11 LTSC available to power users for a reasonable, if premium, price, eh? That would go a long way to fostering good will with a lot of us.

I am actually honestly surprised they haven’t tried this yet as a money-grab tactic. I remember there were rumors years ago around… 2017-2018, I believe?… about a “gaming focused” consumer version of 10 based on some sort of unholy combination of Ent IOT and Pro for Workstation that would target low system usage and low latencies as a goal. Never materialized, obviously. I suppose, if it ever actually was in development, the calculus for MS didn’t work out in the sense that their bean counters decided that whatever premium they could sell it at didn’t overshadow the “benefits” of all the ecosystem bloat they could force onto users.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I am actually honestly surprised they haven’t tried this yet as a money-grab tactic.

Me Too! Seems like a BADLY missed opportunity..

I remember there were rumors years ago around… 2017-2018, I believe?… about a “gaming focused” consumer version of 10 based on some sort of unholy combination of Ent IOT and Pro for Workstation that would target low system usage and low latencies as a goal. Never materialized, obviously.

To be far, LTSB & LTSC were easily used by an end user once one figured out how. Personally, I think microsoft let it "slide" as they knew most of us power-users who'd use it would have actual bought copies of Pro anyway. Hopefully they'll play nice with 11 LTSC as well at the very least.

I suppose, if it ever actually was in development, the calculus for MS didn’t work out in the sense that their bean counters decided that whatever premium they could sell it at didn’t overshadow the “benefits” of all the ecosystem bloat they could force onto users.

Oh let's not go down that rabbit hole. Such is endlessly maddening and infuriating to many of us.

 

[Klemc]

LTSC is like Corporate for XP !?

 

[Onasi]

LTSC is like Corporate for XP !?

Not exactly. Damn, that’s a trip down memory lane. But yeah, Corpo was just a Pro with a volume license and no need for activation, if I remember correctly. For 11 that would be regular Enterprise. LTSC is different in that it’s further stripped down of bloat and DOES NOT receive feature updates, so it’s permanently 24H2 in this case.

 

[lexluthermiester]

LTSC is different in that it’s further stripped down of bloat and DOES NOT receive feature updates, so it’s permanently 24H2 in this case.

And supported with security and bug fixed long term. LTSC = Long Term Support Channel. We know you know that but not everyone does and I wanted to point it out for those that did not.

 

[Onasi]

We know you know that but not everyone does and I wanted to point it out from those that did not.

Goddamn it, stop sending me on nostalgia trips in this thread.

 

[Klemc]

Not exactly. Damn, that’s a trip down memory lane. But yeah, Corpo was just a Pro with a volume license and no need for activation, if I remember correctly. For 11 that would be regular Enterprise. LTSC is different in that it’s further stripped down of bloat and DOES NOT receive feature updates, so it’s permanently 24H2 in this case.

Yes, Corpo mmory.

And supported with security and bug fixed long term. LTSC = Long Term Support Channel. We know you know that but not everyone does and I wanted to point it out from those that did not.

... the true Windows like it's have been for everybody, allright.

 

[sam_86314]

I got a question for you.... (or anyone else here with W11 LTSC)

If I have W11 home installed can i just upgrade my copy of windows by activating an LTSC key or would I require a full re-install?

Tried googling the question but i dont have an answer.

As far as I know, no. You have to track down an Enterprise LTSC ISO and either do a fresh install or an in place upgrade.

Also, make sure you aren't using an evaluation ISO, as I don't think those can be activated.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Also, make sure you aren't using an evaluation ISO, as I don't think those can be activated.

They can, but you have to have an existing and valid key.

 

[windwhirl]

It's actually not beta. 11 LTSC is considered released. Ironic considering uh, nothing else 24H2 is yet, lol. But yes it is an eval.

We could debate that point, mostly because the current release is not considered an RTM by microsoft internally. There are some internal and functional changes that need to be made before the "RTM" ISO hits the release channels. However, from another point, you're not wrong. The feature set is more or less final and the experience we have now will carry forward.

Just for the technicality of it, it's based on the 26100 build, which is where Microsoft decided to split the Insider Canary and Dev channels (Canary going to higher build numbers and Dev staying in 26120). This year's feature upgrade for Windows 11 will likely be based on the 26100 or Dev channel's 26120 build, with whatever bugfixes in newer releases backported to it plus whatever bugfixes they may add during the Beta/Release preview phase.

Interesting side note, my Win 10 LTSC keys did not work to activate 11 LTSC. That might not be a serious thing, or it might. We will see when the final release comes around.

Those keys are tied to contracts, no? Maybe the specific contract for your key doesn't allow an upgrade path to Windows 11.

@ microsoft
Don't supposed you all would like to be a decent sort and make 11 LTSC available to power users for a reasonable, if premium, price, eh? That would go a long way to fostering good will with a lot of us.

From @ microsoft:

"And miss on all that sweet, sweet ad revenue and AI revenue? Dear gods, we need to keep lining our pockets here. Would someone please think of the investors?!"

To be far, LTSB & LTSC were easily used by an end user once one figured out how. Personally, I think microsoft let it "slide" as they knew most of us power-users who'd use it would have actual bought copies of Pro anyway. Hopefully they'll play nice with 11 LTSC as well at the very least.

And the licenses were already paid. Not sure how the math goes though with regards to the price differences between a volume licensed Enterprise seat vs a regular consumer Pro one.

In any case, there's probably more money to make from going after companies doing misuse and/or unauthorized distribution of software licenses.

But yeah, Corpo was just a Pro with a volume license and no need for activation, if I remember correctly.

They started doing activation on the last years of Windows XP, corporative or not. But you only got nagged about it if Windows Update downloaded a Windows Genuine Advantage update package or something like that (not sure how that played out though if you had the computers subjected to WSUS inside an organization). If you just installed updates manually by downloading the update packages yourself from Microsoft's site you probably would never even hear about WGA.
Side note, but Office 2007 was the last version that had an edition without activation requirements (so called Enterprise edition). Starting with 2010, all editions required to be activated. So it seems that 2009/2010 were the years when Microsoft decided to go all the way and enforce activation requirements for every product they sold, to whatever degree of success or non-success they may have had with that strategy.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Those keys are tied to contracts, no? Maybe the specific contract for your key doesn't allow an upgrade path to Windows 11.

I haven't had any issues with them thus far, but who knows.

From @ microsoft:
"And miss on all that sweet, sweet ad revenue and AI revenue? Dear gods, we need to keep lining our pockets here. Would someone please think of the investors?!"

Investors from microsoft make little to no money from the Windows product line. That is moose-muffins argument.

 

[R-T-B]

There are some internal and functional changes that need to be made before the "RTM" ISO hits the release channels.

I don't know man, there are literally RTM ISO's available if you have an enterprise agreement. Or at least they appear to be, I don't see anything declaring them beta. Maybe I misread earlier.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I don't know man, there are literally RTM ISO's available if you have an enterprise agreement. Or at least they appear to be, I don't see anything declaring them beta. Maybe I misread earlier.

Or maybe I'm misinformed. You could be right. I've given up trying to keep track of the twaddle coming out of microsoft.

 

[R-T-B]

Or maybe I'm misinformed. You could be right. I've given up trying to keep track of the twaddle coming out of microsoft.

It's really confusing at times I'll grant you.

 

[Klemc]

Is Win 11 totally lost without his core internet services ?..

this three are available to be disables from MSConfig,
and at least two make the screen flicker/blink (at reboot), logon takes ages, and my SteamDeck became warm and fans crazy... i didn't test to disable the third one standalone, i reenabled two services, as i knew already about netprofm doing the same thing on my desktop, just reenabled the two others "web" services.

Service Liste des réseaux (perhaps)
Service Interface du magasin réseau
Service Broker pour les connexions réseau

NcbService
nsi
netprofm

 

[londiste]

Any OS today is pretty lost when you kill their network services.
Is there a reason you want to disable these? Ncbservice and netprofm are started on demand when something needs them and nsi should be a depency for a bunch of other network services.

 

[Klemc]

Any OS today is pretty lost when you kill their network services.
Is there a reason you want to disable these? Ncbservice and netprofm are started on demand when something needs them and nsi should be a depency for a bunch of other network services.

On demand, i trust you about this detail, BUT, if Windows starts them asap even before the desktop showed up at each boot, it's like an AUTO+FIRST classpriority.

I just disable all possible services for my SteamDeck.

You look well informed about web services, for sure... if you wann check, try disable this three, reboot, if problem at logon, wait it'll be long, then CTRL-ALT+DEL and after SHIFT+click reboot PC button, go safemode and finally reenable.

 

[Onasi]

On demand, i trust you about this detail, BUT, if Windows starts them asap even before the desktop showed up at each boot, it's like an AUTO+FIRST classpriority.

It does start them on boot because they are triggered by other stuff, so “on demand”. As far as I could track, it’s the “Windows Experience Pack” or whatever it’s called nowadays, they’ve renamed it a bunch, that uses them to potentially download and apply small fixes and updates automatically that don’t go through WinUpdate. Yes, modern Windows updates itself constantly in the background and not all the changes are part of KB packs.

 

[Klemc]

It does start them on boot because they are triggered by other stuff, so “on demand”. As far as I could track, it’s the “Windows Experience Pack” or whatever it’s called nowadays, they’ve renamed it a bunch, that uses them to potentially download and apply small fixes and updates automatically that don’t go through WinUpdate. Yes, modern Windows updates itself constantly in the background and not all the changes are part of KB packs.

What happens for offline PCs tho !?
Did they think about that ?

 

[Onasi]

@Klemc
Welcome to the “always connected” era, most modern commercial OSs are built on the assumption that the user IS constantly online. But yes, if your PC is offline, then obviously those updates won’t be accessible. It still will check so that next time you are they can be applied.

But, overall, nowadays I see no benefit in messing around with Services. There is no performance to gain. If there’s something you definitely don’t need, like printing or handwriting recognition, sure, you can turn those off. But anything more and you run into dependency and compatibility issues potentially that just isn’t worth the hassle overall.

 

[londiste]

On demand, i trust you about this detail, BUT, if Windows starts them asap even before the desktop showed up at each boot, it's like an AUTO+FIRST classpriority.

Something triggers their start. Most likely some app from MS Store, depending on app and settings some are started automatically on startup even if that is on background

 

[Klemc]

@Klemc
Welcome to the “always connected” era, most modern commercial OSs are built on the assumption that the user IS constantly online. But yes, if your PC is offline, then obviously those updates won’t be accessible. It still will check so that next time you are they can be applied.

But, overall, nowadays I see no benefit in messing around with Services. There is no performance to gain. If there’s something you definitely don’t need, like printing or handwriting recognition, sure, you can turn those off. But anything more and you run into dependency and compatibility issues potentially that just isn’t worth the hassle overall.

That's true,

but SteamDeck does only video games, and if a gamer relied on a windows service, it would forcedibly fail one day or another bc MS updates ans OS upgrades, i hope no video game makerdid that !?