We need a dedicated Power Supply Forum

[dirtyferret]

@W1zzard
These forums needs an enema! Sorry I mean dedicated Power Supply Forum. I actually started this conversation with @Bill_Bright and some of the forum mods a few weeks ago just have not had the time to make a full and expansive list of reasons why. I thought about making it a poll but really it's more of a situation of people posting their full opinion than just simply clicking yes or no.

"My original email was "It's a missed opportunity with Jonnyguru forums going down. We used to post reviews from all over and discuss each one but all that info is now gone along with the small but knowledgeable base. Right now Tom's has a PSU forum and it's a black hole of misinformation but gets decent visits. Aris's forum on Hardware Busters has hardly taken off so he's not filling the gap. It could serve TPU well and bring in some knowledgeable people."

I see it more as place to discuss all things PSU, post reviews (across all sites), and help prevent the spread of misinformation of which there is a lot.

TPU also has forums dedicated to GPUs, Cases, Mobos, Cooling, Storage, Networks, and Phones

Right now PSU would fall into General Hardware forum but that really is more focused on the ongoing battle of Intel vs AMD and to a lesser extent monitors.

Pretty much every site out there has a dedicated forum to PSU so it's not an unusual request

Thoughts? Requests? Future Winning lottery tix numbers. Feel free to post below

 

[64K]

It fits with TPU's forum structure but I have to wonder what would prevent it from becoming, as you say, a black hole of misinformation like on Tom's Hardware? I used to be a regular there but haven't visited it in many years since they went downhill so I don't know the state of their forums anymore.

jonnyguru was the best PSU review site that the net has ever seen but there was some real knowledge and experience there. I wonder if something like that could be brought back to life here but in all honesty I am skeptical.

 

[dirtyferret]

Good points

It fits with TPU's forum structure but I have to wonder what would prevent it from becoming, as you say, a black hole of misinformation like on Tom's Hardware? I used to be a regular there but haven't visited it in many years since they went downhill so I don't know the state of their forums anymore.

I've not posted on Tom's in a decade if not longer. I think we have better mods, more mature regulars, and less "newer" members looking to justify their purchase as opposed to trying to help someone or offer insight. Now, all of that can backfire and it turn into the brand A is better than brand B war as well.

jonnyguru was the best PSU review site that the net has ever seen but there was some real knowledge and experience there. I wonder if something like that could be brought back to life here but in all honesty I am skeptical.

I'm skeptical but if you don't try you won't know and that type of forum has yet to appear anywhere else. Quick story, years ago there was this PSU mod on toms who constantly pushed this one brand and argued with everyone. One day I see his exact handle on JG pushing his same go to brand and model. JG forum rips him a new one, saying that the power is over kill, it's over priced, we can name a number of units that are better.

 

[Bill_Bright]

My view is as follows:

If the new PSU forum could be limited to discussing and comparing specific PSUs, PSU technologies and associated ATX standards for PSUs in order to help folks with their purchasing decisions, that could be very helpful.

However, threads in that new forum should NOT be related to troubleshooting computer, PSU, or potential power problems. Those would remain in (or moved to) Hardware. My worry there is it becoming too much a chore for the mods to keep them separate.

 

[Kapone33]

This would also be good to discuss the changes in the PSU space like what are the best price/performance units and are Corsair refurb units that good? I saw a new 1200I for $229 CAD one day in the refurb section at Canada Computers.

 

[Assimilator]

There really isn't very much to talk about PSUs, though. Regarding purchasing it boils down to "consult the cultist tier list", "never cheap out" and "if it seems too good to be true, it is". Regarding the actual technical bits and bobs... let's be honest, how many people actually care about that? Looking at the other subforums for e.g. GPUs, we don't have threads about why X company's PCB design is better than Y company's, or similar; that's the kind of stuff that buildzoid covers with his videos and quite honestly, he's done more harm to the enthusiast community than good because every fucking manufacturer now builds GPUs as if each one is a Porsche, and charges Porsche prices, when all consumers need and want are VWs.

Further, I used to hang about the jonnyguru forums and I remember them being kinda dead a lot of the time, probably because PSUs aren't a fast-moving tech. It's not like we get a new ATX standard every year, or that ATX12VO is actually going to become A Thing sometime soon.

As such I can guarantee that 99% of threads in that forum will be the same execrable "which PSU to buy" or "why shouldn't I buy AeroCool" or someone claiming their PSU can't be the problem with their system because it was a top-of-the-line unit when they bought it a decade ago, or similarly braindead bullshit that would be answered by a simple Google search. The mods already do a shit job at removing such threads (as in, they don't remove them, because apparently asking the same question for the 100th time is going to result in a different outcome to the other 99 times... what's the definition of insanity again)?

About the only use I can see for it is having a place to send people who want to argue that ATX12VHPWR was created by Hitler, and really the only place those people should be sent is to the garbage. Because they are garbage people who are incapable of plugging things in correctly and thus do not deserve technology.

 

[maxfly]

Do it. Keep in mind, once the tech discussions end after day two, its cricket town. A PSU section/forum absolutely has to be for the entirety of TPU members PSU questions (as boring as they are)or it's dead before it starts.

 

[cvaldes]

One MAJOR limitation with PSU discussion is the fact that Joe Consumer can't test them. Even most DIY PC enthusiasts don't have the expertise nor required equipment necessary to benchmark these components. The average multimeter isn't sensitive enough to detect voltage output variances that are noteworthy.

For 99.99% of us PSUs either work out of the box or they don't. And when they don't either they're DOA or they create system instability that may be difficult to initially trace back to the PSU.

While some people here love to bash the existence of the PSU tier list, for me it's an extremely convenient starting point for purchase decisions because it is compiled by people who like to pore over PSU reviews and do some some PSU testing themselves. I do not have the time, inclination or skill to do any of that. It literally saves me hundreds of hours of reading over very dry material, half of which I don't understand because I don't have a degree in electrical engineering.

You can benchmark a CPU or GPU, even run some tests on memory, SSDs, cooling components. But there's little Joe Consumer can do with a PSU to test its purported capabilities. Remember that some of the professional PSU tests stress the components beyond their rated specs to make sure measure functionality at and beyond those limits. In some instances, they will destroy the sample unit in the process because they run these extreme tests at the end.

For me I look at where a PSU places on the tier list, consider the reputation of the manufacturer, note the warranty duration and then decide whether or not I'm willing to spend $____ on the unit.

 

[Kapone33]

There really isn't very much to talk about PSUs, though. Regarding purchasing it boils down to "consult the cultist tier list", "never cheap out" and "if it seems too good to be true, it is". Regarding the actual technical bits and bobs... let's be honest, how many people actually care about that? Looking at the other subforums for e.g. GPUs, we don't have threads about why X company's PCB design is better than Y company's, or similar; that's the kind of stuff that buildzoid covers with his videos and quite honestly, he's done more harm to the enthusiast community than good because every fucking manufacturer now builds GPUs as if each one is a Porsche, and charges Porsche prices, when all consumers need and want are VWs.

Further, I used to hang about the jonnyguru forums and I remember them being kinda dead a lot of the time, probably because PSUs aren't a fast-moving tech. It's not like we get a new ATX standard every year, or that ATX12VO is actually going to become A Thing sometime soon.

As such I can guarantee that 99% of threads in that forum will be the same execrable "which PSU to buy" or "why shouldn't I buy AeroCool" or someone claiming their PSU can't be the problem with their system because it was a top-of-the-line unit when they bought it a decade ago, or similarly braindead bullshit that would be answered by a simple Google search. The mods already do a shit job at removing such threads (as in, they don't remove them, because apparently asking the same question for the 100th time is going to result in a different outcome to the other 99 times... what's the definition of insanity again)?

About the only use I can see for it is having a place to send people who want to argue that ATX12VHPWR was created by Hitler, and really the only place those people should be sent is to the garbage. Because they are garbage people who are incapable of plugging things in correctly and thus do not deserve technology.

Until you realize that the good cheap units do not exist like they used to. The Corsair TX 850M used to be $99 and now it is regular $169 on sale and there are plenty of Deepcool and other new PSUs to get some attention. Not for us but the next generation of Gamer. We also don't want people buying CM units because it has Corsair in the name and that would be nice to have to say it

 

[cvaldes]

Until you realize that the good cheap units do not exist like they used to. The Corsair TX 850M used to be $99 and now it is regular $169 on sale and there are plenty of Deepcool and other new PSUs to get some attention. Not for us but the next generation of Gamer. We also don't want people buying CM units because it has Corsair in the name and that would be nice to have to say it

Look, everything is more expensive due to inflation. Milk, petroleum, electricity, yoga pants, PC power supplies, GPUs, sewing machines, lumber, toilets, steel, gold, whatever.

The FPS Review has done some recent head-to-head comparisons between the 4080 SUPER and the 2080 SUPER as well as the 4070 SUPER and 2070 SUPER. One intelligent thing they did was adjust launch date MSRP of the Ampere cards to 2024 dollars.

Take videogames for example. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time released in 1998 at $60 retail. Today that would be over $115 at current pricing. And yet people bitch about recent $70 videogame price tags. Freaking clueless.

Whining that there are no good $99 GPUs or PSUs in 2024 just shows that a person is out of touch with reality. Yeah, I wish gas was $2 a gallon just like everyone else in America. And I'd love to buy Santa Monica beachfront real estate for $20,000. Not going to change anything, we will never see those prices again. LOL

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Look, everything is more expensive due to inflation. Milk, petroleum, electricity, yoga pants, PC power supplies, GPUs, sewing machines, lumber, toilets, steel, gold, whatever.

The FPS Review has done some recent head-to-head comparisons between the 4080 SUPER and the 2080 SUPER as well as the 4070 SUPER and 2070 SUPER. One intelligent thing they did was adjust launch date MSRP of the Ampere cards to 2024 dollars.

Take videogames for example. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time released in 1998 at $60 retail. Today that would be over $115 at current pricing. And yet people bitch about recent $70 videogame price tags. Freaking clueless.

Whining that there are no good $99 GPUs or PSUs in 2024 just shows that a person is out of touch with reality. Yeah, I wish gas was $2 a gallon.

I am interested in the inflated yoga pants forum. sign me up!

My last PSU I had purchased from a Jonny Guru review many years ago. Was Antec CP series 850w and later got a 1kw CP series PSU. They both out lasted the warranty by many years. Retired them early this year in fact.

However a dedicated forum to just talk about power supplies is not a fulfillment of a review for purchasing.

Not sure a PSU forum is necessary, but does sound intriguing for those with a deep vast knowledge of PSUs. Perhaps if there was a dedicated person to tackle questions in such a forum section would be useful. Do we have someone that could dedicate the time and effort to such a forum???

 

[freeagent]

I don’t know.. PSU is fairly simple. Buy a good one, not the cheapest one. If you do buy a cheap one, don’t plan on loading it up because at some point you will regret it.

 

[dirtyferret]

Until you realize that the good cheap units do not exist like they used to. The Corsair TX 850M used to be $99 and now it is regular $169 on sale and there are plenty of Deepcool and other new PSUs to get some attention. Not for us but the next generation of Gamer. We also don't want people buying CM units because it has Corsair in the name and that would be nice to have to say it

So those are three things we could discuss
Why is the TX850M so expensive now? Are there better units from Corsair and other Brands for less money or close to what the TX850M cost at launch?
Prior to DeepCools current troubles, how was the quality of their units? I know HB tested several of them
What is CM? Cooler Master? or do you mean the Corsair CV line?

Perhaps if there was a dedicated person to tackle questions in such a forum section would be useful. Do we have someone that could dedicate the time and effort to such a forum???

He's busy reading other forum threads

 

[cvaldes]

Perhaps if there was a dedicated person to tackle questions in such a forum section would be useful. Do we have someone that could dedicate the time and effort to such a forum???

Are you willing to pay someone for their participation? Or do you feel entitled to have all their expertise for free?

I am not interested in shelling out lots of money for this, I'd rather just stick to the tier list. Maybe it might be nice for some to be able to ask a question to a paid expert but for me I'd rather see what volunteer pundits have to say.

The number of people on the greater Internet who are A.) knowledgeable about PSUs and B.) can communicate effectively in written English is a pretty small group of individuals. Not sure how many frequent TPU on a regular basis.

Does TPU even have a PSU reviewer at this time? It's not like there are hordes of them banging at W1zzard's door.

 

[dirtyferret]

Does TPU even have a PSU reviewer at this time? It's not like there are hordes of them banging at W1zzard's door.

​

suvirintojas has done several reviews for PSU already on TPU

 

[cvaldes]

suvirintojas has done several reviews for PSU already on TPU

Well then, there is one person at TPU who has the qualifications (desire, time, skill, equipment) to speak about PSUs and can communicate effectively in written English.

Do you expect this person to spend even more time in the forums answering all manner of PSU-related questions? What is this worth to you?

And again, how can Joe Consumer verify anything any PSU expert or dilettante/charlatan says here whether they are paid to answer questions or not?

It's not like I can go to Home Depot, pick up a $49 Acme PSU Tester and see how my DodgyBros Super FOMO 420 XT Pro compares to what suvirintojas found in their review.

I can benchmark a CPU or GPU, compare my unit's results against others. I can't do it with a PSU. It sits in the case and either works or doesn't.

What should I do? Come back to the PSU Forum and say "I highly recommend the DodgyBros Super FOMO 420 XT Pro because it powers up and I haven't burnt down my house yet"? There are already people here who say stuff like that. Do you think they'd be better off with their own special PSU forum?

It's up to W1zzard. It might be useful but there's also a risk of such a dedicated discussion forum basically turning into some sort of PSU dilettante ghetto that some people might deliberately avoid. And it would increase workload on the moderation team because there are always some numbskulls who can't properly categorize their questions. We see this ALL THE TIME in the GPU forum.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Look, everything is more expensive due to inflation. Milk, petroleum, electricity, yoga pants, PC power supplies, GPUs, sewing machines, lumber, toilets, steel, gold, whatever.

You didn't mention COVID. The price of everything went up because of COVID disrupting supply chains. It stayed up because of greed.

We're still talking PSUs, right?

 

[dirtyferret]

We see this ALL THE TIME in the GPU forum.

yet we have a GPU forum

 

[cvaldes]

yet we have a GPU forum

Yes, precisely because there are GPU discussion points that ordinary forum participants can engage in.

And people change GPUs far more frequently than PSUs anyhow. And spend more money per each discrete GPU purchase to begin with.

$200 will buy a very nice PSU that should stick around until the mid 2030s. $200 doesn't buy squat in GPUs in 2024.

 

[dirtyferret]

Do you expect this person to spend even more time in the forums answering all manner of PSU-related questions? What is this worth to you?

who said anything about a single person, it's a community of people where the threads would at least stick around more and possibly help people as opposed to being buried in a forum of of constant back and form CPU threads.

 

[cvaldes]

who said anything about a single person, it's a community of people where the threads would at least stick around more and possibly help people as opposed to being buried in a forum of of constant back and form CPU threads.

We are twenty replies into this thread and there isn't any overwhelming call or community demand for a separate PSU forum so far.

But keep campaigning W1zzard for one. Maybe someday your wish will be fulfilled.

Best of luck!



P.S. Perhaps you would have more success campaigning for a separate CPU forum. Just a thought...

 

[dirtyferret]

$200 will buy a nice PSU that should stick around until the mid 2030s. $200 doesn't buy squat in GPUs in 2024.

I can buy a decent air cooler for Noctua for $65 and they will send me socket kits well beyond the 2030's and we have a cooler forum. Not sure why price has anything to do with this.

 

[cvaldes]

I can buy a decent air cooler for Noctua for $65 and they will send me socket kits well beyond the 2030's and we have a cooler forum. Not sure why price has anything to do with this.

Again, a cooler is a user testable device where ordinary people can do their own benchmarks and recount their findings.

The concept that a PSU is not a testable component (for the average TPU forum participant) seemingly isn't penetrating your skull.

And because of this, it is time for me to bow out of this discussion (which hopefully will get recategorized into your brand new PSU Discussion Forum dreamworld).

 

[#22]

Imo it works best if any pc component has it's own dedicated part of forum. Eight such parts like computer typically consisting of eight main components: CPU, cooler, mobo, RAM, storage, GPU, PSU and case. Things like fans and coolers could or even should be put together, because topics mix with each other. Similarly with all kind of net stuff or expansion cards. Such order seems best to me, but maybe there's something against it my imagination don't get like ease of moderating or whatever.

Plus for now some categories even smell like 00's. What the hell is today Overclocking and Cooling? Like some DIY water cooling from things bought in aquarium shop?

Or Cases/Modding/Electronics? This time glueing some sound-dampening material, dremel something, mounting HDDs in spectacular way or searching for state of the art LCD fan controller?

 

[Bill_Bright]

We are twenty replies into this thread and there isn't any overwhelming call or community demand for a separate PSU forum so far.

Gee whiz! It's Thursday morning in much of the world and this thread is not even 3 hours old! And 6 of those replies are yours! What did you expect? A million views and 1000s of replies?