Several AMD RDNA 4 Architecture Ray Tracing Hardware Features Leaked

[Vayra86]

By having something called a "business plan".

Which they have got, except it doesnt align with what we like to see in a discrete consumer gpu line up. Dont forget AMD is still and has historically maintained volume sales on its GPU division AND uses that to create and maintain a custom Chip business, APU, console presence and recently owned the handheld PC market just like that: the synergy is value that Nvidia doesnt have, nor Intel at this point manages to match.

Its the reason AMDs share price has still gained a good 400% in the face of 'losing battles' against much larger chip behemoths. Not a bad result.

 

[Kn0xxPT]

Tell me how AMD is supposed to go out there, undercut Nvidia at each tier by $150+ and still keep stock prices up and investors happy while quarterly profits decrease AND all the while LITERALLY paying either the same or even a higher costs than nvidia on the materials used to make the card (Nvidia probably gets components cheaper do to larger volume)....PLEASE explain that to me. If I remember correctly, Intel sold alderlake with a diminished profit margin, how has thst worked for them? Oh that's right, AMD surpassed them in value.
......

The other part of it that seemingly everybody ignores is the fact that the overwhelming majority, 99% of all consumers, including ALL OF YOU, make purchasing decisions based on IRRATIONAL factors like how the product makes you "feel", and we KNOW that's true for videocards because even when AMD offers a compelling videocard that on paper is an OBJECTIVELY better value, the Nvidia competitor still outsells it 10 to 1.
...

There is alot to digest here, but maybe here are some pointers of why.

In case you didnt notice, buyers will buy when a product is a better value ... AMD CPU Ryzen lineup is a proof of it. people buy it because its good better value and thats why people buy nvidia ... its a better value for money.
There are still brand fan's that tends to stick ...well to brands instead of better value.

AMD GPU is 1 gen behind Nvidia ... Nvidia is making sure to keep AMD on that step ...
There are things that turns a product into better value in mainstream. Performance/Efficiency/Ecosystem.
Lets see what NVIDIA offers:
+Better Performance/Watt
+Better DLSS implementations (even XeSS got a little better than FSR, go figure )
+Better Encoding Capabilities aka NVENC ... used in OBS and even on Discord.
+Better day1 Games Optimized drivers
+Better Software support on CUDA
- Premium Price

In every "+" AMD failed to surpass Nvidia, something that in the CPU division, Ryzen did surpassed the long king Intel because of better value/features/price and even platform.
AMD needs to have the same approch on GPU division, offer better "features" that values the product.
They are investing in RT .... because it is a "selling" point used by Nvidia, for me ... its just a gimmick that do not offers any value, Nvidia use the "RT" benchmark because they already have nailed the other features... AMD is falling to NVIDIA's trap.
AMD's recent decision to create a "Software Division" will problably pump AMD GPU's features to Nvidia level, but that will take time ... time that NVIDIA know's how to manage.

 

[ARF]

In 2023 Nvidia had a $7.4 Billion R&D budget that almost the entirety was spent on GPU development.
In 2023 AMD had an R&D budget $5.8 billion R&D budget that was primarily spent on x86 development as thet is by far their largest revenue stream.
Now, I want everybody in these comments that just assumes that AMD should just be able to match Nvidia explain to me, how that is to be accomplished. Because the way 99% of you speak about it, you act like these two companies are on a level playing field, that they have access to the same sort of resources, and that for AMD it's just a problem of "not pricing videocards cheap enough" while completely ignoring the fact that the current capitalist paradigm is stock price above all and quarterly earnings above all....

Have you heard about start-ups? How much resources do you think an ordinary start-up has to begin and execute a business plan?
When was the last time AMD had designed a normally sized high-end chip to be in line with nvidia's die sizes? 600 mm^2? 650 mm^2?
AMD doesn't invest. AMD is very greedy. It wants (or maybe doesn't) to make money with as little investments as possible.
Do you think that going to GPU chiplets is normal, when we know that GPUs CAN'T work fast if there are too high latencies between its different parts? This is not a CPU, which can have a billion chiplets, and would still be good enough..

Also, the last but not least important - you should compare the efficiency of those multi-billion budgets - or the helpful work per dollar.

 

[64K]

There is alot to digest here, but maybe here are some pointers of why.

In case you didnt notice, buyers will buy when a product is a better value ... AMD CPU Ryzen lineup is a proof of it. people buy it because its good better value and thats why people buy nvidia ... its a better value for money.
There are still brand fan's that tends to stick ...well to brands instead of better value.

AMD GPU is 1 gen behind Nvidia ... Nvidia is making sure to keep AMD on that step ...
There are things that turns a product into better value in mainstream. Performance/Efficiency/Ecosystem.
Lets see what NVIDIA offers:
+Better Performance/Watt
+Better DLSS implementations (even XeSS got a little better than FSR, go figure )
+Better Encoding Capabilities aka NVENC ... used in OBS and even on Discord.
+Better day1 Games Optimized drivers
+Better Software support on CUDA
- Premium Price

In every "+" AMD failed to surpass Nvidia, something that in the CPU division, Ryzen did surpassed the long king Intel because of better value/features/price and even platform.
AMD needs to have the same approch on GPU division, offer better "features" that values the product.
They are investing in RT .... because it is a "selling" point used by Nvidia, for me ... its just a gimmick that do not offers any value, Nvidia use the "RT" benchmark because they already have nailed the other features... AMD is falling to NVIDIA's trap.
AMD's recent decision to create a "Software Division" will problably pump AMD GPU's features to Nvidia level, but that will take time ... time that NVIDIA know's how to manage.

3D TV was a gimmick. VR was a big topic that evaporated into thin air. RT is persistent. It doesn't go away and only gets more desirable as the years have gone by.

AMD is doing what everyone wants them to do whether they know it or not. They are bringing more competition to Nvidia. Even the Nvidia fans will be thankful if this makes their GPUs less of a ripoff due to lack of competition.

The only thing that has borked where we were all headed eventually anyway is that Nvidia pushed the whole RT thing out too early. Developers were poorly able to implement it properly and the hardware and software was lacking but I can assure you that RT will continue to become more desirable and probably the last bit of serious resistance will end when the next gen consoles arrive with much more of a focus on RT.

No one will be saying that RT is a gimmick then. Some will still be against it but their voices will be drowned out by the vast majority of gamers that do want it.

 

[Kn0xxPT]

3D TV was a gimmick. VR was a big topic that evaporated into thin air. RT is persistent. It doesn't go away and only gets more desirable as the years have gone by.
....
No one will be saying that RT is a gimmick then. Some will still be against it but their voices will be drowned out by the vast majority of gamers that do want it.

Well the way I see it ...
RT is persistent when the user really wants it, the performance hit is minimal and the game justifies it. Other than that I dont see any point of RT.
I see the example of Gran Turismo 7 vs Forza Motorsport ... a very well developed game doesnt need RT to look amazing.

Possible a mind exercise, if AMD offered a Performance/Watt + better Upscalling + (few other things) at a reasonable pricetag (vs Nvidia). I think that people would buy AMD even if it lacked RT performance ....( that is what NVIDIA is afraid of )
AMD already made a better Raster-performance and increased VRAM, but not the optimizations needed and the other features...
Why Ryzen was a success ? because price/performance and gave user more cores ... something that Intel was holding back, in case of NVidia is VRAM.
In GPU universe VRAM is a point, but it doesnt tell the full story, like the RTX 4060 TI 16GB is a proof of that, it lacked performance for price. AMD needs to look at those Nvidia fails ...
For me, the "future" features are upscalling techs/encoding/decoding and optimizations on performance/watt.
I do really want some punches throwed at NVIDIA... because they are getting way to big for my confort. Intel GPU's and RADEON's do need to step up

 

[Makaveli]

Absolutely not. If amd cards compete in both raster and rt with nvidia they will fly off the shelves, especially the high end cards. I've been ready to pull the trigger on an amd card since 2017, but they always fail at the high end.

I'm not so sure there are people that are so firmly entrenched in Nvidia it doesn't matter what AMD releases and how it performs they will not jump ship. You will have people argue with you to the death about RT yet there is only like 10 games with it. AMD 1000% has to improve RT performance and continue to improve FSR quality but that Nvidia marketing kool aid is vert potent.

It's not about marketing. Raster is solved. Who the heck will upgrade his card for raster? A 6800xt from 2020 can play every raster game just fine.

a 6800XT even in raster struggles in UE5 games native no upscaling.

And I know this because I did a 6800XT to 7900XTX upgrade and in UE5 games performance is much better.

 

[tommo1982]

Have you heard about start-ups? How much resources do you think an ordinary start-up has to begin and execute a business plan?
When was the last time AMD had designed a normally sized high-end chip to be in line with nvidia's die sizes? 600 mm^2? 650 mm^2?
AMD doesn't invest. AMD is very greedy. It wants (or maybe doesn't) to make money with as little investments as possible.
Do you think that going to GPU chiplets is normal, when we know that GPUs CAN'T work fast if there are too high latencies between its different parts? This is not a CPU, which can have a billion chiplets, and would still be good enough..

Also, the last but not least important - you should compare the efficiency of those multi-billion budgets - or the helpful work per dollar.

Every company is about being greedy. Contemporary business model is profits with as little investment as possible. It's stupid pointing fingers at one company where people do their business this way. No matter how small or big.

What I'd like to see with RDNA4 is a card with performance similar to RX7600 for $230 (with tax), $330 is too much. My RX570 might die before I buy a new card.

 

[64K]

I see the example of Gran Turismo 7 vs Forza Motorsport ... a very well developed game doesnt need RT to look amazing.

I can't think of a worse example of the value of RT than in an extremely fast paced racing game. That is just a tiny part of gaming. There are other many other genres where you aren't moving through the level in a blur.

You will have people argue with you to the death about RT yet there is only like 10 games with it.

Nope. Here's a short list behind the Spoiler Tag of some of the more popular games using RT. There are actually over 500 so far and rising.

Spoiler: Short List of RT Games

A Plague Tale: Requiem
Alan Wake 2
Amid Evil
Ash Echoes
Atomic Heart
Avatar: Frontiers Of Pandora
Battlefield V
Battlefield 2042
Bright Memory
Bright Memory: Infinite
Call Of Duty: Black Ops Cold War
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare (2019)
Chernobylite
Chorus
Control
Crysis Remastered
Crysis Remastered Trilogy
Cyberpunk 2077
Dead Space (2023)
Deathloop
Deliver Us The Moon
Desordre: A Puzzle Game Adventure
Diablo IV
Dirt 5
Doom Eternal
Dragon's Dogma 2
Dying Light 2
EA Sports: F1 24
Elden Ring
Everspace 2
F1 2021
F1 22
Far Cry 6
FIST: Forged In Shadow Torch
Five Nights At Freddy's: Security Breach
Forspoken
Fortnite
Forza Horizon 5
Forza Motorsport
Ghostrunner
Ghostrunner 2
Ghostwire: Tokyo
Gotham Knights
Godfall
Gripper
Halo Infinite
Hell Pie
Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice
Hello Neighbor 2
Hitman: World of Assassination
Homeworld 3
Industria
Icarus
Jurassic World Evolution 2
Justice
JX Online 3
Lego: Builder's Journey
Layers of Fear (2023)
Loopmancer
Martha is Dead
Marvel’s Guardians of the Galaxy
Marvel's Midnight Suns
Marvel's Spider-Man Remastered
Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales
Mechwarrior V: Mercenaries
Metro Exodus / Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition
Minecraft (Bedrock Edition)
Moonlight Blade
Mortal Shell
Myst
Observer: System Redux
Paradise Killer
Portal with RTX
Pumpkin Jack
Quake II RTX
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart
Resident Evil 2
Resident Evil 3
Resident Evil 4
Resident Evil 7
Resident Evil Village
Returnal
Raji: An Ancient Epic
Ring Of Elysium
Sackboy: A Big Adventure
Saints Row
Severed Steel
Shadow of the Tomb Raider
Skull and Bones
Star Wars Jedi: Survivor
Stay in the Light
Steelrising
Sword and Fairy 7
Synced
The Ascent
The Fabled Woods
The Finals
The First Descendant
The Lord of the Rings: Gollum
The Medium
The Persistence
The Riftbreaker
The Witcher III: Wild Hunt - Game of the Year Edition
Turbo Sloths
Watch Dogs Legion
Warhammer 40,000: Darktide
Wolfenstein: Youngblood
World Of Warcraft: Shadowlands
Wrench
Xuan-Yuan Sword VII

 

[Vayra86]

I can't think of a worse example of the value of RT than in an extremely fast paced racing game. That is just a tiny part of gaming. There are other many other genres where you aren't moving through the level in a blur.



Nope. Here's a short list behind the Spoiler Tag of some of the more popular games using RT. There are actually over 500 so far and rising.

Spoiler: Short List of RT Games

A Plague Tale: Requiem
Alan Wake 2
Amid Evil
Ash Echoes
Atomic Heart
Avatar: Frontiers Of Pandora
Battlefield V
Battlefield 2042
Bright Memory
Bright Memory: Infinite
Call Of Duty: Black Ops Cold War
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare (2019)
Chernobylite
Chorus
Control
Crysis Remastered
Crysis Remastered Trilogy
Cyberpunk 2077
Dead Space (2023)
Deathloop
Deliver Us The Moon
Desordre: A Puzzle Game Adventure
Diablo IV
Dirt 5
Doom Eternal
Dragon's Dogma 2
Dying Light 2
EA Sports: F1 24
Elden Ring
Everspace 2
F1 2021
F1 22
Far Cry 6
FIST: Forged In Shadow Torch
Five Nights At Freddy's: Security Breach
Forspoken
Fortnite
Forza Horizon 5
Forza Motorsport
Ghostrunner
Ghostrunner 2
Ghostwire: Tokyo
Gotham Knights
Godfall
Gripper
Halo Infinite
Hell Pie
Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice
Hello Neighbor 2
Hitman: World of Assassination
Homeworld 3
Industria
Icarus
Jurassic World Evolution 2
Justice
JX Online 3
Lego: Builder's Journey
Layers of Fear (2023)
Loopmancer
Martha is Dead
Marvel’s Guardians of the Galaxy
Marvel's Midnight Suns
Marvel's Spider-Man Remastered
Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales
Mechwarrior V: Mercenaries
Metro Exodus / Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition
Minecraft (Bedrock Edition)
Moonlight Blade
Mortal Shell
Myst
Observer: System Redux
Paradise Killer
Portal with RTX
Pumpkin Jack
Quake II RTX
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart
Resident Evil 2
Resident Evil 3
Resident Evil 4
Resident Evil 7
Resident Evil Village
Returnal
Raji: An Ancient Epic
Ring Of Elysium
Sackboy: A Big Adventure
Saints Row
Severed Steel
Shadow of the Tomb Raider
Skull and Bones
Star Wars Jedi: Survivor
Stay in the Light
Steelrising
Sword and Fairy 7
Synced
The Ascent
The Fabled Woods
The Finals
The First Descendant
The Lord of the Rings: Gollum
The Medium
The Persistence
The Riftbreaker
The Witcher III: Wild Hunt - Game of the Year Edition
Turbo Sloths
Watch Dogs Legion
Warhammer 40,000: Darktide
Wolfenstein: Youngblood
World Of Warcraft: Shadowlands
Wrench
Xuan-Yuan Sword VII

Yeah and the overwhelming majority merely uses it as a marketing term you cant see a single difference or it looks worse and it certainly performs much worse. So sure the marketing is strong, undeniably. There is a place for RT. But implementation is everything. A long list says nothing at all.

 

[Assimilator]

Yeah and the overwhelming majority merely uses it as a marketing term you cant see a single difference or it looks worse and it certainly performs much worse. So sure the marketing is strong, undeniably.

The problem with this forum is that people assume their opinions are shared by everyone else, even when directly confronted with evidence to the contrary.

 

[64K]

Yeah and the overwhelming majority merely uses it as a marketing term you cant see a single difference or it looks worse and it certainly performs much worse. So sure the marketing is strong, undeniably.

Developer laziness has always been a problem. That's what needs to be addressed. Not the real value of RT.

Frame rates take a hit when RT is used. There are software solutions that help though.

 

[Vayra86]

The problem with this forum is that people assume their opinions are shared by everyone else.

Its called the human condition lol nothing strange to humanity is strange to TPU

 

[Makaveli]

I can't think of a worse example of the value of RT than in an extremely fast paced racing game. That is just a tiny part of gaming. There are other many other genres where you aren't moving through the level in a blur.



Nope. Here's a short list behind the Spoiler Tag of some of the more popular games using RT. There are actually over 500 so far and rising.

Spoiler: Short List of RT Games

A Plague Tale: Requiem
Alan Wake 2
Amid Evil
Ash Echoes
Atomic Heart
Avatar: Frontiers Of Pandora
Battlefield V
Battlefield 2042
Bright Memory
Bright Memory: Infinite
Call Of Duty: Black Ops Cold War
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare (2019)
Chernobylite
Chorus
Control
Crysis Remastered
Crysis Remastered Trilogy
Cyberpunk 2077
Dead Space (2023)
Deathloop
Deliver Us The Moon
Desordre: A Puzzle Game Adventure
Diablo IV
Dirt 5
Doom Eternal
Dragon's Dogma 2
Dying Light 2
EA Sports: F1 24
Elden Ring
Everspace 2
F1 2021
F1 22
Far Cry 6
FIST: Forged In Shadow Torch
Five Nights At Freddy's: Security Breach
Forspoken
Fortnite
Forza Horizon 5
Forza Motorsport
Ghostrunner
Ghostrunner 2
Ghostwire: Tokyo
Gotham Knights
Godfall
Gripper
Halo Infinite
Hell Pie
Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice
Hello Neighbor 2
Hitman: World of Assassination
Homeworld 3
Industria
Icarus
Jurassic World Evolution 2
Justice
JX Online 3
Lego: Builder's Journey
Layers of Fear (2023)
Loopmancer
Martha is Dead
Marvel’s Guardians of the Galaxy
Marvel's Midnight Suns
Marvel's Spider-Man Remastered
Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales
Mechwarrior V: Mercenaries
Metro Exodus / Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition
Minecraft (Bedrock Edition)
Moonlight Blade
Mortal Shell
Myst
Observer: System Redux
Paradise Killer
Portal with RTX
Pumpkin Jack
Quake II RTX
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart
Resident Evil 2
Resident Evil 3
Resident Evil 4
Resident Evil 7
Resident Evil Village
Returnal
Raji: An Ancient Epic
Ring Of Elysium
Sackboy: A Big Adventure
Saints Row
Severed Steel
Shadow of the Tomb Raider
Skull and Bones
Star Wars Jedi: Survivor
Stay in the Light
Steelrising
Sword and Fairy 7
Synced
The Ascent
The Fabled Woods
The Finals
The First Descendant
The Lord of the Rings: Gollum
The Medium
The Persistence
The Riftbreaker
The Witcher III: Wild Hunt - Game of the Year Edition
Turbo Sloths
Watch Dogs Legion
Warhammer 40,000: Darktide
Wolfenstein: Youngblood
World Of Warcraft: Shadowlands
Wrench
Xuan-Yuan Sword VII

And in this list of games AMD gives ok RT performance in all but the heavy hitters which is about 10 games or so.

I should have been alittle more clear. I'm reffering to the RT games where AMD struggles. ie cyberpunk , Alan Wake etc.

This list consist of games where RT is light also.

 

[Vya Domus]

Here's a short list behind the Spoiler Tag of some of the more popular games using RT. There are actually over 500 so far and rising.

It's obviously not 10 but many of these just have 1 RT thrown in there, often barely noticeable like AO or GI.

 

[Kn0xxPT]

RT will always be a controversial topic ....People who wants it vs People don't care about RT.
sarcasm/
Usually people of RT are willing to put $$$ for RT performance ... In that case ... yeah AMD needs to double the performance of Nvidia's RT and add double to the pricetag to say "AMD GPU are now a valueable product"

 

[JustBenching]

And in this list of games AMD gives ok RT performance in all but the heavy hitters which is about 10 games or so.

I should have been alittle more clear. I'm reffering to the RT games where AMD struggles. ie cyberpunk , Alan Wake etc.

This list consist of games where RT is light also.

But that's the thing, for how many games does someone upgrade his gpu? Saying it's only 10 games completely misses the point. Id argue it's only 5 games that you are missing out for not playing with RT, but 5 games are enough to make someone upgrade his card.

For example only 2 of those games last for more than 200 hours (Witcher 3 and cyberpunk).

 

[Makaveli]

RT will always be a controversial topic ....People who wants it vs People don't care about RT.
sarcasm/
Usually people of RT are willing to put $$$ for RT performance ... In that case ... yeah AMD needs to double the performance of Nvidia's RT and add double to the pricetag to say "AMD GPU are now a valueable product"

I doubt we will see AMD doubling NV's RT performance I think the goal should be parity with them.

But that's the thing, for how many games does someone upgrade his gpu? Saying it's only 10 games completely misses the point. Id argue it's only 5 games that you are missing out for not playing with RT, but 5 games are enough to make someone upgrade his card.

For example only 2 of those games last for more than 200 hours (Witcher 3 and cyberpunk).

that is a good question and with these two examples i've played and beat both games. And I have no incentive to go back and play them, a 4090 cost $2500 CAD so none of that is convincing for me to switch.

Subjective but 5 games and that cost does not do it for me.

Once we have both consoles with most titles supporting RT is when we will see the big push for it in my eyes. When Medium tier GPU's can push RT in the PC side is when things will really get interesting.

We know dev's target the low to medium tier buyers as that is where the most volume is.

 

[JustBenching]

that is a good question and with these two examples i've played and beat both games. And I have no incentive to back and play them, a 4090 cost $2500 CAD so none of that is convincing for me to switch.

Subjective but 5 games and that cost does not do it for me.

Once we have both consoles with most titles supporting RT is when we will see the big push for it in my eyes. When Medium tier GPU's can push RT in the PC side is when things will really get interesting.

We know dev's target the low to medium tier buyers as that is where the most volume is.

Why even bring up the 4090? The dichotomy is if it's worth spending 50 to 80 euros extra to go from an amd card to a much more rt capable nvidia card (7900xt vs 4070ti super, 7900xtx vs 4080 super). I'd argue for 5 games - playtime of more than 200 hours, it's totally worth it.

 

[Makaveli]

Why even bring up the 4090? The dichotomy is if it's worth spending 50 to 80 euros extra to go from an amd card to a much more rt capable nvidia card (7900xt vs 4070ti super, 7900xtx vs 4080 super). I'd argue for 5 games - playtime of more than 200 hours, it's totally worth it.

Because i'm speaking about myself and i'm already on a 7900XTX i'm not going to look at a lower tier card.

200 hours for $2500 purchase "totally worth it"

I will have to agree to disagree on that.

 

[JustBenching]

Because i'm speaking about myself and i'm already on a 7900XTX i'm not going to look at a lower tier card.

Well obviously someone that already bought a card isnt the discussion.

As of right now 4080 super and 7900xtx cost the same in EU and around 70 pounds difference in the UK. So the cost to use rt in those handful of titles is 0 to 70 pounds.

If amd doesn't address this issue they will be dropping to below 10% soon.

200 hours for $2500 purchase "totally worth it"

I will have to agree to disagree on that.

Strawman much? Why are you even bringing up the 4090? It's not just faster in rt, it's faster in everything.

The xtx competes against the 4080 super, they cost roughly the same and the nvidia part is much faster in rt. Obvious choice

 

[Makaveli]

Strawman much? Why are you even bringing up the 4090? It's not just faster in rt, it's faster in everything.

The xtx competes against the 4080 super, they cost roughly the same and the nvidia part is much faster in rt. Obvious choice

I already answered this question. The upgrade from a 7900XTX would be a 4090. I would not go to a 4080 super from my card that would be a side grade.

And based on cost and game selection I would not make that move at all.

as I said we will have to agree to disagree on this.

 

[JustBenching]

I already answered this question. The upgrade from a 7900XTX would be a 4090. I would not go to a 4080 super from my card that would be a side grade.

And based on cost and game selection I would not make that move at all.

as I said we will have to agree to disagree on this.

LOL, feels like you are trolling. Nobody argued that someone should go from a 7900xtx to a 4080 super. What im saying is if you are out for a card right now, getting a card that can play RT costs 0 to 70 pounds extra (7900xtx vs 4080 super, 7900xt vs 4070ti super).

 

[Vya Domus]

Are you putting those 200 hours into starring at reflections to see if they're perspective correct ?

 

[Makaveli]

LOL, feels like you are trolling. Nobody argued that someone should go from a 7900xtx to a 4080 super. What im saying is if you are out for a card right now, getting a card that can play RT costs 0 to 70 pounds extra (7900xtx vs 4080 super, 7900xt vs 4070ti super).

Having an opinion is not trolling. I've been on this site almost 20 years I don't troll and not going to start now.

I've asked this question on many forums and nobody has been able to give me a convincing argument once you factor in cost and the amount of games.

And yes you can go down a tier or two for the cost issue but the amount of games doesn't change.

 

[Neo_Morpheus]

RDNA3 was such a stopgap. Should give RDNA3 owners a rebate. Clear RDNA3 was dead on arrival and AMD knew it.

Well, moving from my previous gpu (gtx970) to a 7900xtx doesn’t feel like a doa product and unlike Ngreedias offerings, mine had a 120US$ rebate plus 2 games worth 170US$ a couple of months after the original launch. So yes, they offered a rebate.

What makes you say that?

See the post below.

Influencers formerly known as Tech reviewers would still claim AMD cards not having features proprietary to Nvidia as a downside.

Fixed a bit for you.

I doubt it, it seems like nvidia buyers always find something to whine about for reasons to not buy an AMD card, one I see the most is RT isn't enough, even though you need an RTX 4090 to get decent RT performance with high settings unless you use DLSS to sacrifice quality on a $1,000+ gpu. Or the complaining about FSR when a review shows a 2X enhanced image people suddenly think the experience will be unusuable in real world usage where most people won't notice.

Those are incapable of making their own decisions plus needs to be part of a bigger tribe, so they simply blindly follow the bribed influencers.

Inevitably someone will say that there are hardly any games that use RT in a way that justifies the insane performance hit plus gimmicks like fake frames.

Hello, nice to meet you!
But let fix that sentence a bit.

For now there are over 500 games using some RT

See above and adding, there are thousands and thousands of games without RT that are still way better than those 500+.

there are guaranteed to be thousands and thousands more as the years roll by.

Eventually, but hopefully we will also have low to mid tear gpus that can serve the customers, instead of requiring a US$2K+ gpu to be able to admire those puddles and mirrors reflections.

I'm just wondering when we'll get to the age when even lower-midrange cards can run RT at acceptable frame rates. Turing was a demo of this new and experimental tech, and I'm getting the feeling that now, 6 years and 2 Nvidia generations later, it's still just that (new and experimental). Until RT becomes mainstream (as in performance, not in game adoption), my vote will be on raster vs RT. Let history prove me wrong.

Personally, by year 2 of the “year of the affordable RT gpu” i said that we were at least 5 gens away of that.
But I think that was too conservative.

Also, to me (so far) RT has not proven to be more than a gimmick anyway.

When the game worlds are not entirely wet or made completely of mirrors and still add a real reason to demand RT, i will then stop thinking its not a gimmick.