Intel Facing Lots of Returns !

[Vincero]

Is this because we reach the end of Moore's law?

No, it's because of bad implementation

 

[ty_ger]

"Higher than normal case volume?" I see/hear that literally every time I try to reach customer service of any corporation .. it actually means "we have only few agents, because we're trying to save money and value our time higher than yours"

It's epidemic. It's really frustrating hearing their 'apology' knowing that it is constant and by design.

It's kind of like the way hotels now clean your room once every 2 weeks due to a 'lack of staff' that they never hire.

 

[freeagent]

Whatever they make next has to be bullet proof, fast, and cheap. Shareholders would have to take the back seat for the next few rounds, as Intel has to give the world a real treat.

Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't spend money on them right now, or maybe even in the near future.

 

[neatfeatguy]

I'm wondering what will happen to all the returned CPUs ... If there's enough of them, it makes business sense to re-test, re-label and re-sell them. Intel, Green Computing At Scale, advancing towards the Net-Zero goal!

Those CPUs will probably get dropped in one of the those cheap CPU vending machines in Japan. The one you put in a few bucks and get out a random CPU.

This Japanese vending machine dispenses Intel Core CPUs for just $3.25 a pop

The machine was highlighted by X/Twitter user LaurieWired (via Tom's Hardware), who posted that a user called Sawara-San had won the Coffee Lake S chip after placing...

www.techspot.com

 

[Stephen.]

"Higher than normal case volume?" I see/hear that literally every time I try to reach customer service of any corporation .. it actually means "we have only few agents, because we're trying to save money and value our time higher than yours"

As for me the support on my end rarely shows that, the last time it was like this was way back in late 2012 to sometime in 2013.

On my end it started showing like this today.

 

[W1zzard]

I'm wondering what will happen to all the returned CPUs ... If there's enough of them, it makes business sense to re-test, re-label and re-sell them. Intel, Green Computing At Scale, advancing towards the Net-Zero goal!

That is a fantastic idea and would be wonderful. These CPUs will run great as lower clocked models. I have doubts about Intel's ability to change the product configuration. Afaik these fuses are one-time-write only

 

[Sarajiel]

I'm wondering what will happen to all the returned CPUs ...

Intel gave away Pentium 60s as promotional keychains back in the days of the FDIV bug.

 

[stahlhart]

22 months, no issues, keeping mine.

 

[Laurijan]

View attachment 359231

22 months, no issues, keeping mine.

if anything intel extended the warranty on boxed affected cpus

 

[mkppo]

View attachment 359231

22 months, no issues, keeping mine.

Not doubting your stability, just stating that the intel diagnostic test doesn't test for stability all that well. When the CPU has degraded very slightly (and fails one of the now notorious decompression tests) the stability test still gives a pass. Only when CPU's have degraded a bit more does this stress test actually give a fail.

They should design a better test and they know they can

 

[A Computer Guy]

Those CPUs will probably get dropped in one of the those cheap CPU vending machines in Japan. The one you put in a few bucks and get out a random CPU.

This Japanese vending machine dispenses Intel Core CPUs for just $3.25 a pop

The machine was highlighted by X/Twitter user LaurieWired (via Tom's Hardware), who posted that a user called Sawara-San had won the Coffee Lake S chip after placing...

www.techspot.com

If you have enough of them you can make resin based tiles and tile your bathroom. Imagine Intel Inside your shower!

 

[Outback Bronze]

Imagine Intel Inside your shower!

I've already started filling out my bathroom with 14900K's

 

[A Computer Guy]

I've already started filling out my bathroom with 14900K's

Please share pictures!

 

[evernessince]

Surely if this was just a voltage issue it would be possible for Intel to get a create a tool to test if you have a damaged / defective CPU. It would save their customer support a lot of time. I suppose that would just make things too easy for customers though, Intel is likely trying to reduce the cost on their end as much as possible and slow customer support might be part of that.

"Higher than normal case volume?" I see/hear that literally every time I try to reach customer service of any corporation .. it actually means "we have only few agents, because we're trying to save money and value our time higher than yours"

Yep and it's not only that, causing customer frustration and putting barriers up is used as a tactic to reduce the number of customers actually able to submit an RMA. So long as it isn't outright illegal, these companies will utilize everything possible to reduce the amount they are spending on customer service / RMAs.

You saw a huge jump in customer unfriendly practices during the pandemic but really it's been a trend for the past 3 decades. If everyone offers bad service, customers have no choice but to put up with it.

There are very few industries you can point to nowadays that are genuinely pro-consumer.

The mentality of take the profit now with some undermining quality, some lack of safety, do stuff with cheaper parts... and so on and on and on... and deal with consequences later... if they come... is growing.

This mentality is because the people will all the money are either A) Rich B) Lucky to have been born earlier. The constant demand by these kind of investors for immediate growth has consequences for the following generations as they are essentially ruining previously innovative American companies for future generations:

Baby boomers by themselves control over half the total wealth despite millennials and Gen X combined accounting for roughly twice as many people:

Gen X earned less than their parents at the same age and Millennials earned less at the same age as their Gen X parents. It's a gerontocracy, plain and simple. I should also point out that things have gotten worse after these charts were published, the handouts to big corps during the pandemic (which accounted for 77% of the pandemic spending) overwhelming favored those invested in the stock market (the rich and old).

I suspect that if we had younger generations (I mean this relatively, after all millennials are already in their 30s) more able to invest in the stock market, there would be a greater focus on steady growth over time instead demanding quick profits.

 

[wheresmycar]

I'm not surprised at all. Intels been on a sharp power consumption upwards trajectory since 10th Gen.

There can only be 2 outcomes 1) impressive engineering built to last 2) not so impressive engineering replicating a bursting pressure pot.

I was left shouldering on the latter or in the least assuming nippier performance degradation later down the line. From the lens of a laymen, for me its the intense compo driving Intel to push the boundary a little too aggressively, ultimately compromising the much desired balance between performance and power efficiency (..and over-powered architecture reuse which often achieves unappealing incremental improvements). Push one too many boundaries and every now and then those elasticated boundaries generate a conscience of their own and hit back with a hard slap.

 

[Laurijan]

I'm not surprised at all. Intels been on a sharp power consumption upwards trajectory since 10th Gen.

There can only be 2 outcomes 1) impressive engineering built to last 2) not so impressive engineering replicating a bursting pressure pot.

I was left shouldering on the latter or in the least assuming nippier performance degradation later down the line. From the lens of a laymen, for me its the intense compo driving Intel to push the boundary a little too aggressively, ultimately compromising the much desired balance between performance and power efficiency (..and over-powered architecture reuse which often achieves unappealing incremental improvements). Push one too many boundaries and every now and then those elasticated boundaries generate a conscience of their own and hit back with a hard slap.

dont need to a sherlock holmes to see that current Intel CPU has use like 250w compared to my 7800x3d 85w. 250w is like way too high. I dont want a sauna in my PC case

 

[stahlhart]

Not doubting your stability, just stating that the intel diagnostic test doesn't test for stability all that well. When the CPU has degraded very slightly (and fails one of the now notorious decompression tests) the stability test still gives a pass. Only when CPU's have degraded a bit more does this stress test actually give a fail.

They should design a better test and they know they can

I agree completely -- I only downloaded and ran this particular test here because it had been posted to the thread earlier. I usually validate with y-cruncher component stress test and OCCT. Both of these required slightly dialing back the overclock, about 1-2 on multipliers, to pass. It would score a little higher on R23 otherwise, for example, but in prioritizing stability I've accepted a slight reduction for it.

The component stress test is really abusive, so I don't run that one very often, only one run and then only after a significant change such as a BIOS or OS version update. I have to remove the side panel and point a fan inside to keep the memory from overheating during SFT and VT3 (and also memory-specific validations such as Karhu or TM5). That's probably cheating a little, but nothing else I run in normal use stresses it that hard to where temperatures will start generating errors. SFT also pushes the CPU to 90C, which is outside my comfort zone.

I've also added the 7Zip test for decompression. Agree that Intel should have these all baked into something that customers could run as a one-stop check to keep an eye on things. Everything seems fine here, but I have to live with this nagging suspicion that something's going on inside that sneaking up on us all.

 

[iameatingjam]

Like I said before everything.... Driver crash, CTD, BSOD, will be blamed on the intel cpu now. The part that is usually the last one somebody suspects is the culprit.

Yup. Corrupt OS due to bad SSD... return the CPU! Ram XMP not stable? Return the cpu! Forgot to plug your router into the power strip? Return the cpu!

View attachment 359231

22 months, no issues, keeping mine.

Thats great and all (I'm downloading that tool as we speak) but I think intel said they are working on a tool to diagnose this new problem in particular and not just.... CPU general health, which this appears to be?

EDIT: Yay, I passed

Though I still have a feeling this may not be a.... fully reliable way... to test affected or at risk raptor lake cpus....

 

[529th]

Now instead of blaming lag the blaming of chip degradation for being fragged will be the new excuse.

 

[stahlhart]

Thats great and all (I'm downloading that tool as we speak) but I think intel said they are working on a tool to diagnose this new problem in particular and not just.... CPU general health, which this appears to be?

EDIT: Yay, I passed

View attachment 359367

Though I still have a feeling this may not be a.... fully reliable way... to test affected or at risk raptor lake cpus....

I heard about that as well, and wasn't sure if this was that application or we are still waiting. It does push the CPU fairly well in some of the tests, but as @mkppo already stated, that testing should include decompression, as repeatedly installing Nvidia drivers isn't really a workable solution.

 

[Stephen.]

Mmm... it passed

But all these missing features ... return CPU ...

 

[remixedcat]

Seeing as L1Techs and some others have ways of identifying when cores aren't working properly, etc., surely Intel would be better off making a validation / check tool available to test the CPU for errors.
I'm not saying it should be used to exclude/validate RMA claims, but surely it would be useful for those who suspect an RMA is needed or those who haven't actually had any meaningful amount of issues but wish to check anyway and may be impacted without knowing...

have they even given full list of batch codes and such so we all know which ones really are effected cuz some of the 13th gen use older cores and some don't there was a thread that showed 2 different pics of the same model cpu and they both use different cores and they physically looked a lil different too. So they don't even have control over basic stuff like that and basic stuff that led to the whole oxidation thing.

how tf are we gonna trust them from here on out?

 

[wheresmycar]

dont need to a sherlock holmes to see that current Intel CPU has use like 250w compared to my 7800x3d 85w. 250w is like way too high. I dont want a sauna in my PC case

Yep crossing the 200w mark is what finally ended my life-long Intel constancy which surprisingly coincided with AMDs X3D which was a big bonus. Unfortunately we can't say the same for the current uptick in GPU power consumption unless we're settling with low/mid tier cards. So a radiating mini radiator sauna it is for me, unfortunately!

 

[Stephen.]

Yep crossing the 200w mark is what finally ended my life-long Intel constancy which surprisingly coincided with AMDs X3D which was a big bonus. Unfortunately we can't say the same for the current uptick in GPU power consumption unless we're settling with low/mid tier cards. So a radiating mini radiator sauna it is for me, unfortunately!

I contemplated crossing due to this very reason, but the Intel support kept me at bay this is because over they years I've had impeccable service from Intel in regards to replacements and returns. Unlike some companies "cough' asus" who have left me to bite the bullet in the past