What Windows is overall the best to you and why?

[AVATARAT]

If you have a smartphone/social networking, what's the point of having a local Windows account?

 

[Vayra86]

If you have a smartphone/social networking, what's the point of having a local Windows account?

Rather, what's the point of an online Windows account if you already have a smartphone? Your question reminds me of this

Its not like Windows integrates fantastically with, say Apple. And it can also do all of that without an MS account, all you need is a USB cable. Or.. internet.

And also, what's the point? Being not dependant on MS's authentication services to get into your offline based OS, is one. That also applies when you reinstall the OS. You can screw this up and lock yourself out of your own locally saved data with an online-based authentication. And let's not even begin to think of all the potential woes inflicted upon you through Windows Update and new builds of the OS.

I'm running 11 now without any of this online nonsense and its pretty fantastic compared to the online-driven, Onedrive-enabled, consumer version of it. The world truly looks better without all of that shit.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I don't think you and I digress from the topic here. Security?

Every tile that reaches out to the internet for updates is a security problem as each opens a way into a PC.

I heard - not substantiated - they did test with an "internal" focus group - that is, with a bunch of Microsoft employees who overwhelmingly said they did NOT like it.

That's not a rumor. Actually happened. When their own employees tell them they on the wrong track en-masse and they do it anyway, you know something is seriously not right.

No, I don't think it is about doing their due diligence (not this time, anyway). It was about not caring and ignoring what their own focus group was telling them.

But not listening to their own and not doing further testing with a wider audience is, in my personal & professional opinion, failing to do due diligence. This is why most of the major Hollywood studio's do screenings, sometimes multiple rounds of them, through multiple edits to get things right. Companies who make widely adopted software, especially an OS, are well wise to do the same. The decision making nit's at microsoft frequently fail in this critical capacity.

Again totally wrong. You too clearly do not understand the difference between security and privacy.

Some people consider them to be one & the same. Violating one's privacy IS very much a violation of one's personal security. The difference between what you are stating and what the others are stating is that of context perspective.

 

[Noname1234]

Violating one's privacy IS very much a violation of one's personal security.

This....

And about advertising in the OS:
How many times malware/viruses come though the advertising on a website. You dont want that in the OS. It has to be closed and be clean as much as possible. Free Software what is full of advertising with banners etc will not be on my system for the same reason.

 

[izy]

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Possible Windows Bug Found, Hurts Ryzen Gaming Performance @W1zzard

 

[iameatingjam]

I use 11 now, but voted 7. 11 is fine at this point, but it took too long to get there. Way longer than it should have. 10 was pretty good too.

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Possible Windows Bug Found, Hurts Ryzen Gaming Performance @W1zzard

So what you can't just right click>run as administrator? Or go to compatibility settings and have it run as admin every time? Thats not enough? You need whole seperate account? Thats kinda annoying... I wonder if its undoing some security feature or something. Though I'm sure if will be fixed in due time.

 

[izy]

I use 11 now, but voted 7. 11 is fine at this point, but it took too long to get there. Way longer than it should have. 10 was pretty good too.


So what you can't just right click>run as administrator? Or go to compatibility settings and have it run as admin every time? Thats not enough? You need whole seperate account? Thats kinda annoying... I wonder if its undoing some security feature or something. Though I'm sure if will be fixed in due time.

I have no idea , i havent tested and i dont own an zen 5 but maybe worth a try using Run as Administrator, thats a nice idea.

 

[9087125]

For me windows XP was the first actual good OS that marked the move away from nerdy PCs to big powerful hightech entertainment rigs, in fact my old XP rig already had a very similar desktop to what windows 11 can offer, the cool stuff you do in win11 I was already doing in XP. But it was Windows Vista that really ushered in that true next gen experience for me. Vista brought big multi monitors, multi cores, multi tasking, along with advancements in games, speakers, headphones and monitors. It was a true next gen leap that no other OS has done, not even close. Microsoft actually did amazingly well at making Vista. But there was so much unwarranted criticism towards Vista, like how it was buggy, ran slow, was only good on single core cpus etc, all complete nonsense. When you actually opened your wallet and got powerful hardware it was fantastic and smooth. At the time Vista had a few problems like buggy slow alt-tab under heavy multitask with aero on and frequently deleting thumbnail cache and I was looking to build a new system with Windows 7 as everyone was saying 7 is Vista done right, I felt like I was left behind and everyone was moving on. But the truth is when using 7 on my other computer I hated it, it represented a major step backwards introducing things that were just wrong and counterproductive. Long story short I released 7 was a lemon and that it wasn't as good as all the hype. What I find interesting is some of the stupid highly questionable design changes in Windows 10 were already present in 7, I didn't realize this until more recently visiting my old Laptop with 7 on it. Windows 7 for me is where the cracks started to show in Windows and singled the end of windows and Microsofts real talent. So spending years with Vista I thought it was bad and it gave me much frustration, but it turns out it was actually the best Windows ever made and it was one of those things in life that you dont realize how great it was until its gone. Vista for was like that Range Rover in TopGear Bolivia Special, "we didn't just respect them, we loved them"

After Windows 8 came out I started to become aware of something interesting and deeply profound, just how unbelievably important it is to have a good operating system, and I quickly realized I was not cutout for the rat race of constantly buying new hardware and new windows, For me A 20K system means absolutely nothing if the OS is terrible, if it is buggy with an unusable layout that comes out every 3-5years, I demand nothing short of 10years minimum. I never touched Windows 8 so I don't know what it was like, for all I know given my taste it was actually good.

At first I absolutely hated windows 10 and for a long time refused to touch it, to me it was so wrong and undermined everything one wants in a high end system, but a whole bunch of strange things transpired that for me anyway made it kinda work. First, I was forced to upgrade my old mobile workstation laptops with 7 one them as they were just too slow, god awful USB2 in an age with massive files, this gave me a few solid years of tweaking 10 and learning it inside and out. Next, 10 had an unusual long run which allowed it to mature and have its issues fixed somewhat, but more importantly it gave rise to a huge amount of mods, tweaks, hacks, scripts etc that dwarfed the Vista days, this allowed much of the problems in windows 10 to be removed or at least swept under the rug. Is it like Vista and 7? No, as far as layout and aesthetics its not great but its more advanced and stable at its core and offers more things. I view 10 as an old ex soviet nuclear submarine that some hostiles have taken over and are now using it for their own personal agenda, at this point windows is just a vessel for spyware and truly questionable stuff. Sadly I think most people will never experience what a properly debloated highly scripted Windows 10 system feels like, mine runs amazing compared to the stock version, striped out so much stuff and its just how windows should be. There is a line in the sand that I have drawn, once that line is crossed I will not put up with it and act accordingly, the line has been crossed, and that was done with Windows 11. 11 is good for security and spying on you but nothing else, the amount of work to get 10 up and running was enormous but 11 is simply not doable, its to me completely sterile, like a dead plant in the desert sun. Gamers dont understand, they just turn their computer on and double click on the steam icon, they don't see and experience all the bad stuff 11 brings with it. All the privacy invasion and horrible design doesn't really affect gaming.

So once windows 10 dries up for me I will most likely be forced to go Linux, hopefully by then it will be alot better My dream windows OS is Vista + 7's taskbar/desktop + 10's advanced core features.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Even if it's true it becomes outdated the moment the Big Brother knocks on their door in search of answers.

Absolutely true. Socially engineered methods of malware distribution is widely used because we humans tend to be too trusting and gullible. All the security protection in the world is easily thwarted if you open the door, invite the bad guy in and then ask him what he wants. This is exactly why I have for years and years, constantly remind folks to not be "click-happy" on unsolicited links, downloads, popups and attachments.

You clearly dont want to see.
You can go work, or work as Employee for that Data grabbing M$.
Because the advertising is all opt;out, so yes they hope you dont turn it off, so they can grab as much data, while most people dont know that it's even on, or to turn it off.

You clearly need a leader to live your life, instead of live your own life. That they make all the dicisions for you... Thats sad, really sad...

Happy being watched continuous bro?...

And you only te talk about what M$ wants.. ms want this ms want that...
I dont want that crap anymore... So i left Windows after 10

Huh? I can see clearly thank you. Too bad your personal self-esteem is so low, you have to launch personal insults in your futile attempt to defend yourself. You still don't understand the difference between security and privacy. And that is sad.

Sure, a lack of privacy can lead to a security issue. I am not and have never denied that. But they are still different. Windows is secure (if the user does not invite the bad guy in) even if Microsoft wants to impede on our privacy - like so many other companies. I say again, Microsoft does not know and is NOT trying to steal our passwords, true names, social security numbers, physical address, contacts, account numbers, etc. Too bad you don't get that.

But you only take the security part, while this is about the general experience with an OS.

Wow! There you go again. Complain all you want but please be honest about it. Go back and read my posts. I have been highly critical of many aspects of Microsoft, including their greedy policies, marketing and c-level executive decisions, the Edge and W8 fiascos and more. But clearly, it is you who only wants to see what you want to see.

You clearly ignored where I said, more than once, I use Start 11 and ExplorerPatcher because I don't like W11's UI.

When their own employees tell them they on the wrong track en-masse and they do it anyway, you know something is seriously not right.

Agreed.

But not listening to their own and not doing further testing with a wider audience is, in my personal & professional opinion, failing to do due diligence.

Not doing wider testing after getting negative feedback from within, for sure, is failing to do due diligence. But intentionally not doing wider testing because you don't want see any more negative feedback just goes back to your first statement - "something is seriously not right." And IMO, someone should have been fired - and without a golden parachute!

 

[KLMR]

As you know, Lex, I typically am one to jump in and defend Microsoft as they are so often unjustly accused of something they did or didn't do, or something they have no control over.

Getting rid of the taskbar is NOT talking about code development decisions, but rather "marketing" and "policy" decisions. History has shown us over and over again that the marketing weenies and C-level execs seem to have a habit of making foolish decisions.

Perhaps it might be useful, or at least informative it not interesting to note that Windows is a relatively small cog in Microsoft's revenue machine.

As seen here for 2023, Operating systems accounted for only 10% of Microsoft's revenue.

Product LIne	FY2023 Revenue	Share of Revenue
Total Revenue	$211B	100%
Cloud Computing Services	$80B	38%
Cloud Office Suite Software	$49B	23%
Operating Systems	$22B	10%
Gaming Consoles	$15B	7%
Employment Listing Platform	$15B	7%
AI-Enabled Search Engine	$12B	6%
Other	$19B	9%

So maybe the marketing weenies and C-level execs just don't care how Windows users feel or what we think.

See, that's the thing. History has also shown over and over again, that most of the time, Windows users adapt and eventually just accept what Microsoft throws at.

I will also point out that the operating system is just the launching pad for our apps. Once we are in our browsers, games, word processor, etc. do we (should we?) really care (that much) what the OS looks like?

I would like to point out that many of the other "product" lines rely on windows itself or hosts windows licences. Like Cloud computing: many sysadmins have moved their windows servers (dhcp, mail, exchange, AD, etc) to azure. Those are windows licences. Cloud office suite, from office to sharepoint, meet, etc. rely moslty on having a windows client (part of a windows server or independent) moving those files, by the time being. Gaming consoles run windows underneath, etc.
If companies get rid of windows they'll probably get rid of most of microsoft services in favor of other platforms.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Gaming consoles run windows underneath

Xbox does but it looks like Nintendo and Sony run forked versions of some form of Linux, FreeBSD or even Android code.

 

[newtekie1]

I know I'm not in the majority, but I really like Windows 11. With the tweak of Explorer Patcher, I think it is the best Windows OS. The improvements to things like Task Manager, Notepad and Explorer are so handy. When I'm using the older OSes, which I still have to do regularly, I really miss the improvements that have come over the past couple years in Windows 11.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I know I'm not in the majority, but I really like Windows 11. With the tweak of Explorer Patcher, I think it is the best Windows OS.

I agree. I think those who are resisting W11 because they don't like the UI should really check out Explorer Patcher. That and Start11 are what motivated me to start migrating all my systems to W11.

I also think one lesson learned many years ago should not be forgotten - and that is, have patience and give it time. We humans like the status quo and don't like change. So it takes time to get used to new things. With an open mind, it really does not take long for new things to become intuitive and feel natural. And when that happens, the old tend to feel clunky and archaic.

 

[64K]

I agree. I think those who are resisting W11 because they don't like the UI should really check out Explorer Patcher. That and Start11 are what motivated me to start migrating all my systems to W11.

I also think one lesson learned many years ago should not be forgotten - and that is, have patience and give it time. We humans like the status quo and don't like change. So it takes time to get used to new things. With an open mind, it really does not take long for new things to become intuitive and feel natural. And when that happens, the old tend to feel clunky and archaic.

People dislike Win 11 for various reasons and one of them is MS making the OS more difficult to use just to push their own products. Here's an example:

Before Win 11 you could right click on a file and from a drop down menu you had the most common choices to choose from besides Open. There was Delete, Copy, Send To, Rename. With Win 11 MS made you select 'choose other options' first to use the most common commands. They have updated it to add tiny icons to the drop down menu to do 3 of those things but why not Send To? The only reason that I can see to make such a simple common task a little more tedious is to push Onedrive which some people, myself included, don't want anyway but MS is being their typical stubborn selves and pushing it anyway.

Yes, I know that you can turn off Onedrive for now but does the average user even know they can? MS continues to exert more control over how users can use their OS. Their attitude is, Just do things the way we say and deal with it. It's not like you have a real choice anyway.

 

[Bill_Bright]

People dislike Win 11 for various reasons

Not sure why you quoted me on that but for sure, I know there are various reasons. I never suggested there was only the UI that I mentioned, and you quoted.

Here's an example:

Before Win 11 you could right click on a file and from a drop down menu you had the most common choices to choose from besides Open. There was Delete, Copy, Send To, Rename.

But since you did quote me, I think it too bad you clearly did not check out Explorer Patcher that both @newtekie1 and I mentioned, before you complained about W11's right-click context menu as your example.

If you had, you would have seen one of the many options Explorer Patcher gives us is the option to "Disable the Windows 11 context menu", bringing back the familiar choices of Delete, Copy, Send to, Rename, as well as Open with..., Create shortcut, Properties and more.

 

[Shrek]

Pretty pleased with Windows in general as my licenses for 7 were a free upgrade to version 10 and now my 'new' machine incudes a license for 10 that upgraded to 11 for free. The cost of upgrading would have added up.

I use a Mac at work (by choice) so would not call myself a fanboy of Windows.

 

[Wirko]

I know I'm not in the majority, but I really like Windows 11. With the tweak of Explorer Patcher, I think it is the best Windows OS. The improvements to things like Task Manager, Notepad and Explorer are so handy. When I'm using the older OSes, which I still have to do regularly, I really miss the improvements that have come over the past couple years in Windows 11.

There are some details to like about 11, and tabs in Explorer are one of them. The difference between focused and non-focused window is more visible too. But, if you came to 11 from 10, you traded in the Quick Access Toolbar (nicely customizable), the ribbon (not customizable but can be auto-collapsing or fixed), search history (by some accounts it worked in early 11), easily accessible advanced search options (in the ribbon), resizable search field, and ~32 px of vertical space. I resorted to Agent Ransack for searching but an integrated tool would often be more practical ... if only its UI were at least as good as in 10 or 7, or ideally, Vista or XP or 2000.

 

[64K]

Not sure why you quoted me on that but for sure, I know there are various reasons. I never suggested there was only the UI that I mentioned, and you quoted.


But since you did quote me, I think it too bad you clearly did not check out Explorer Patcher that both @newtekie1 and I mentioned, before you complained about W11's right-click context menu as your example.

If you had, you would have seen one of the many options Explorer Patcher gives us is the option to "Disable the Windows 11 context menu", bringing back the familiar choices of Delete, Copy, Send to, Rename, as well as Open with..., Create shortcut, Properties and more.

You try to explain away the issues with Win 11 as trivial but they aren't trivial is the reason why I quoted you. Also, you're missing the point. Yes, there are things that we can do about it but how many of the hundreds of millions of users out there know anything about fixing Windows annoyances and how to stop MS controlling them to suit their own purposes? Hell, the vast majority don't even know to use the Startup in Task Manager to stop useless fluff from running in the background and tying up resources. When I comment on MS abusiveness I'm not referring to the tech enthusiasts here but bear in mind those are a very, very small section of the user base.

There are valid reasons why people don't like Win 11 and are resisting moving to it. I see it pretty often even on this site how someone will try Win 11 and go back to Win 10 for valid reasons.

 

[Wirko]

Before Win 11 you could right click on a file and from a drop down menu you had the most common choices to choose from besides Open. There was Delete, Copy, Send To, Rename. With Win 11 MS made you select 'choose other options' first to use the most common commands. They have updated it to add tiny icons to the drop down menu to do 3 of those things but why not Send To?

My vote goes to 11 here. The old context menu kept accumulating mess from Win 95 through Win 10 in an uncontrolled way. MS had to do something, and the solution is fairly good, but the graphical design of the icons is hopeless. I also understand that some people are fine with long lists, others prefer icons ... we're not the same.
Sadly I don't have an AI PC, so the new context menu can't adapt and show me my most often used commands. But I haven't lost hope.

 

[Onasi]

But since you did quote me, I think it too bad you clearly did not check out Explorer Patcher that both @newtekie1 and I mentioned, before you complained about W11's right-click context menu as your example.

If you had, you would have seen one of the many options Explorer Patcher gives us is the option to "Disable the Windows 11 context menu", bringing back the familiar choices of Delete, Copy, Send to, Rename, as well as Open with..., Create shortcut, Properties and more.

To be fair, while Explorer Patcher is great, resorting to 3rd party utilities to restore the functionality that one is used to and has been an established “thing” for a long, long time is not ideal. Definitely doesn’t sound like good UX. I don’t think anyone argues that you CANNOT make 11 be pretty much a carbon copy of 10 or 7 or whatever version of Windows GUI is your preference. The issue is that the weird UI tweaks and changes MS does all the time just feel inconvenient. They are, at best, a functionality sidegrade. And the fact that they don’t really allow in-Windows changes to said tweaks to “restore” the previous experience is somewhat grating.
I like Win 11. I use it myself. I just think that Windows 2000 basically already had a perfect UI in terms of functionality and 7 essentially perfected it. Microsofts attempts at reinventing the wheel are unwelcome.

My vote goes to 11 here. The old context menu kept accumulating mess from Win 95 through Win 10 in an uncontrolled way. MS had to do something, and the solution is fairly good, but the graphical design of the icons is hopeless. I also understand that some people are fine with long lists, others prefer icons ... we're not the same.

True, but layered context menus are not an elegant solution to the problem.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Windows Vista and 2000 for me. Vista is injusticed, I wish people didn't have those dreadful Duron machines at the time.

 

[Bill_Bright]

You try to explain away the issues with Win 11 as trivial

No I don't. Do not use your misperceptions as an excuse to twist other people's words around, or to misrepresent what they said. If I believed these issues were trivial, I would have said so.

I have repeatedly commented throughout this thread and elsewhere about the poor policies and forced features, and ill-conceived ideas Microsoft keeps trying to jam down our throats.

If I thought the W11 desktop was trivial, I would not have more than once, recommended Explorer Patcher or Start11.

To be fair, while Explorer Patcher is great, resorting to 3rd party utilities to restore the functionality that one is used to and has been an established “thing” for a long, long time is not ideal.

While I happen to agree - what is ideal? Going back to Windows 95? 3.0? W7? Where do you draw the line? Who says you get to draw the line? Does everyone get to draw their own line?

If Microsoft left all the options that ever appeared in Windows, in W11, people would complain about how bloated Windows was.

MS is between a rock and hard place here. If they lock down Windows and don't allow change, Windows most likely will work as effectively and reliably as your toaster and almost never break. But of course, no one will like it and they will blame Microsoft. If they open up Windows and allow extreme customizations, users will tweak it death and blame Microsoft. So where's the happy medium? There none because everyone has their own, and no other is acceptable.

 

[64K]

I agree. I think those who are resisting W11 because they don't like the UI should really check out Explorer Patcher. That and Start11 are what motivated me to start migrating all my systems to W11.

I also think one lesson learned many years ago should not be forgotten - and that is, have patience and give it time. We humans like the status quo and don't like change. So it takes time to get used to new things. With an open mind, it really does not take long for new things to become intuitive and feel natural. And when that happens, the old tend to feel clunky and archaic.

No I don't. Do not use your misperceptions as an excuse to twist other people's words around, or to misrepresent what they said. If I believed these issues were trivial, I would have said so.

I have repeatedly commented throughout this thread and elsewhere about the poor policies and forced features, and ill-conceived ideas Microsoft keeps trying to jam down our throats.

If I thought the W11 desktop was trivial, I would not have more than once, recommended Explorer Patcher or Start11.

If I combine those 2 points of view I arrive at,

Have patience and give it time to accept MS jamming their poor policies and forced features and ill conceived ideas down our throats. Eventually we will come to acceptance and it will feel natural.

 

[Onasi]

@Bill_Bright
I feel like MS is in this current pickle mostly because they have a twofold problem - their failure to communicate often and efficiently their REASONING behind their changes and the fact that the often wild and radical changes to the UI in several past versions of Windows seem to signal to the average user that they don’t have a strong vision for Windows as an experience. These two issues make it seem like MS have an adversarial relationship with their user base, at least on the surface. I feel like better communication, maybe a strong leadership figure (however ineffectual in reality) and constant interaction that doesn’t read like an AI generated waffle can go a long way for MS. After all, it works for Apple. Rephrasing what Steve Jobs said almost 30 years ago, having a bit of taste and consideration for the customers is probably the best strategy for them. Hell, people were receptive to Panos Panay when he was running the product division, so it’s not like it would be unprecedented.

 

[Bill_Bright]

If I combine those 2 points of view I arrive at,

Have patience and give it time to accept MS jamming their poor policies and forced features and ill conceived ideas down our throats. Eventually we will come to acceptance and it will feel natural.

If you combine those 2 points of views, you simple double your inability to understand what others have said.

I feel like MS is in this current pickle mostly because they have a twofold problem - their failure to communicate often and efficiently their REASONING behind their changes and the fact that the often wild and radical changes to the UI in several past versions of Windows seem to signal to the average user that they don’t have a strong vision for Windows as an experience.

Not a strong vision. Nah! Their vison is extremely strong - the problem is, it is being formed by marketing weenies who don't bother or care what their customers want!!!! Then the bean counters and c-level execs, instead of listening to their developers and customers, listen to their marketing weenies and let those marketing weenies drive the business.

And problem is due to a misperception that has led to a deep root hate for Microsoft. The bad guys were the perpetrators of the offenses. But who got blamed and still gets blamed? Microsoft - to the point people were blaming Burger King messing up their order on Microsoft and Bill Gates. They hated and still hate Windows because of the brand or corporate greed. People still say, even in this thread, M$ - even after installing their "FREE" Windows on their machines.

64K accuses me of trivializing these issues - that is wrong. The problem is, people are blowing out of proportion the issues. The OS is just a launching pad, the vast majority of the time, it sits in the background. Get over it - or get rid of it. Or tweak it.