Arm to Dip its Fingers into Discrete GPU Game, Plans on Competing with Intel, AMD, and NVIDIA

[Carillon]

I don't think they're gonna go for AI, as softbank is already working on it's own AI chips.
A new competitor is always nice, but what I would love is a cheap lowpower backup display adapter. You hear me ARM?

 

[katzi]

HARD pass...

 

[Daven]

Ok, a bad statement. Article says:

"Arm is already entering the PC market through its partners like Qualcomm with Snapdragon X chips. However, these chips run an integrated GPU, and Arm wants to provide discrete GPUs and compete there. While details are still scarce, Arm could make GPUs to accompany Arm-based Copilot+ PCs and some desktop builds. "

What I meant to say is it's not clear ARM is entering x86 PC market. True, there aren't any uses for discrete gaming GPUs outside x86 PCs. Yet.

I see what you are saying. It would be strange to develop a discrete GPU and its drivers to be only compatible with the ARM ISA.

 

[Kyan]

The article states…

“…is reportedly developing a new discrete GPU at its Ra'anana development center in Israel.”

“The team is focused on creating GPUs primarily aimed at the video game market.”

What market other than the PC uses discrete GPUs for video games?

I'm not 100% sure but cloud gaming need gpu for rendering, with or without output, right ?

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

$200~400 range cards are not gonna pay your bills for the next gen uarch R&D, this is where AMD was at least partially smart in having to sell/make more server CPU's than say consumer/server GPU's although the AI boom caught them flat footed.

And so unless you are Nvidia DIY space is not for you, in fact stay away from PC (graphics) completely!

I havent seen brainrot this bad since the singing chicken nuggets.

We're just gonna ignore the billions nvidia makes off of mid range cards, they dont just sell flagships. There's a big market there.

 

[R0H1T]

Nvidia's mid range is $500~1000, they've not released a "mid range" priced GPU since probably Pascal. Maybe we should all book a trip through Elon's time machine when mid range actually cost like a mid range, not x50/Ti class chips selling for 1.5-2x their normal prices or sold as x60/Ti instead.

Yeah, no. If NV actually, literally was the only player left they would absolutely be hit by an anti-trust.

That's what you think, let's how see how it actually plays out in the real world where we have the likes of Google/Apple/Oracle/Amazon/FB/MS & a million other similar monopolies!

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

There might actually be room for this, in the mobile dGPU market to compliment their SD-X chips. They probably pretty easily boost GPU performance over the iGPU while not trying to compete in the tough high-end market.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

Nvidia's mid range is $500~1000, they've not released a "mid range" priced GPU since probably Pascal. Maybe we should all book a trip through Elon's time machine when mid range actually cost like a mid range, not x50/Ti class chips selling for 1.5-2x their normal prices or sold as x60/Ti instead.

4060ti is $400. 4060 is $300.

Of course, you may want to pay attention to wages when you take that time trip. Much like people whining about house prices, you may find that the past was not all sunshine and rainbows.

Before the AI boom, nvidia's margins had raised from 26% in 2017 to 33% in 2022. The price increases you saw in that time, are the result of money printing. this is called inflation. Cost of raw material has increased, labor has increased, and transportation has increased.

$500 is the new $300.

That's what you think, let's how see how it actually plays out in the real world where we have the likes of Google/Apple/Oracle/Amazon/FB/MS & a million other similar monopolies!

The irony of you listing multiple companies that compete with each other as an example of monopolies is just......LMFAO

 

[R0H1T]

4060 is AD107 which is historically a xx50 card.

The irony of you listing multiple companies that compete with each other as an example of monopolies is just......LMFAO

Maybe you should look up the word irony, on Google

US Considers a Rare Antitrust Move: Breaking Up Google

A bid to break up Alphabet Inc.’s Google is one of the options being considered by the Justice Department after a landmark court ruling found that the company monopolized the online search market, according to people with knowledge of the deliberations.

www.bloomberg.com

And yes all of them are monopolies in some sectors. Or maybe you didn't know that Amazon sells products online, as well as has AWS?

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

4060 is AD107 which is historically a xx50 card.

Hey look, moving goalposts! Neat!

Maybe you should look up the word irony, on Google

US Considers a Rare Antitrust Move: Breaking Up Google

A bid to break up Alphabet Inc.’s Google is one of the options being considered by the Justice Department after a landmark court ruling found that the company monopolized the online search market, according to people with knowledge of the deliberations.

www.bloomberg.com

And yes all of them are monopolies in some sectors. Or maybe you didn't know that Amazon sells products online, as well as has AWS?

There are alternatives to everything you just listed. Often multiple other big players.

 

[R0H1T]

Didn't move any post or whatever, the mid range card IMO is a mid sized card/chip ^ that market has moved substantially from even 5 years back! Maybe you should relook at the statement you quoted?

There are alternatives to everything you just listed. Often multiple other big players.

Doesn't stop them from being monopolies does it? Did you look up irony on Bing google yet?

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

Didn't move any post or whatever, the mid range card IMO is a mid sized card/chip ^ that market has moved substantially from even 5 years back! Maybe you should relook at teh statement you quoted?

Doesn't stop them from being monopolies does it? Did you look up irony on Bing google yet?

Have you looked up Dunning-Kruger yet?

 

[Bwaze]

Debate on monopolies is really quite off topic here. Although Nvidia has a large market share, there is a place for other companies, this is obvious to everyone.

And it isn't clear ARM even aims to compete with Nvidia and others in any area, it looks to me like they will enter in a field that doesn't even exist yet.

 

[R0H1T]

Well I didn't bring up monopolies for one, but it goes without saying monopolies aren't illegal ~ contrary to popular belief! It's monopolistic (bad) behaviour which can lead you into hot water.

Sherman Antitrust Act | Guide: The Sherman Act & Sherman Act Violations

The Sherman Antitrust Act (15 U.S.C. § 1) was adopted in 1890 and is the primary federal antitrust law in the United States. The Sherman Act prohibits all contracts, combinations, and conspiracies that…

www.classlawgroup.com

 

[Chaitanya]

They can make it out of Blue Cheese or Casu Martzu intead.

Just the tip of the iceberg of problems with ARM GPU drivers.

Arm Warns of Actively Exploited Zero-Day Vulnerability in Mali GPU Drivers

Arm discloses a critical vulnerability (CVE-2024-4610) in Mali GPU Kernel Drivers. This flaw, actively exploited, affects versions from r34p0 to r40p0

thehackernews.com

 

[TheLostSwede]

Putting more stress on the RAM market. IMO.

GDDR ≠ DDR

 

[Athlonite]

4060ti is $400. 4060 is $300.


$500 is the new $300.

Those are low end for nVidia mid range starts at 4070's so 4070/70S/70Ti and ends at 4080 non Super/Ti

 

[Beginner Macro Device]

Hey look, moving goalposts! Neat!

Unfortunately, he's not the one moving goalposts. 4060 is a tiny chip sold for almost same money as 3060 providing about the same performance... but two years later. And with 4090 being more than 1.5 times faster than 3090 despite being more cut-down Ada than 3090 is cut-down Ampere.

The whole Ada Lovelace generation (RTX 4090 excluded) does consist of heavily cut-down GPUs for the price of one or two segments up and NV only got away with that because there is NO competition on the market. ARM making claims is great but unless we see their products actually putting a "why do I want this?" label on NV devices, this still doesn't contribute to real competition. NV will still get away. And I don't really see how ARM could do that. It needs R&D no one ever has on top of geniuses no one has employed to come true before 2030.

 

[Philaphlous]

more competition = better

 

[HisDivineOrder]

Interesting given that Nvidia almost bought them a few years back. Let's hope they can get it done. We desperately need more competition.

 

[ScaLibBDP]

>>...Arm ... is reportedly developing a new discrete GPU at its Ra'anana development center in Israel ...

I'd like to note that Intel's AVX-512 ISA, a complete disaster for Intel, was also designed in Israel.

In overall, it is a good decision by ARM since more GPU vendors, more competition, and lower prices for GPUs.

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

Will arm even make a GPU though? They don't make CPUs. Sure, they make the uARCH, but will it be up to people like Qualcomm to actually design and make the chips?

Considering the level of effort required to develop and maintain game ready drivers for GPUs, I can't see many people licensing the ARM GPU ISA for gaming chips.

GDDR ≠ DDR

And Apple M3 ≠ 9700X, but they still compete for foundry space. However, I doubt another minor player in the GPU space will affect memory demand, as their sales will be at the expense of someone else's.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Will arm even make a GPU though? They don't make CPUs. Sure, they make the uARCH, but will it be up to people like Qualcomm to actually design and make the chips?

Qualcomm makes Adreno, so there's zero chance of them doing an Arm based GPU. It'll most likely be another unheard of xinese company, like in the case of Imagination.

Considering the level of effort required to develop and maintain game ready drivers for GPUs, I can't see many people licensing the ARM GPU ISA for gaming chips.

It's even harder to get certified pro level drivers, so the only use case appears to be another shitty AI accelerator...

And Apple M3 ≠ 9700X, but they still compete for foundry space. However, I doubt another minor player in the GPU space will affect memory demand, as their sales will be at the expense of someone else's.

It's not as bad in the memory market though.

 

[ViperXZ]

Will probably be the next failure after Intel GPU. Intel had way more going for them with GPU experience and they failed miserably, so I’m not gonna hold my breath for this. If it’s only for AI or whatever it could be okay, but gaming, highly doubt it will be good if that’s what they wanna do. Building GPUs is like building planes it seems, a lot wanna do it, most fail and only two are good at it at the end.