Can unplugging the PC repeatedly from the wall harm it?

[Knight47]

So, one of my relatives likes to unplug all his stuff from the wall when he's not using it.

He shuts the PC down and then unplugs the PC, monitor and TV from the wall, sometimes up to six times/day. Like when he takes a 10 minute break, he wont leave it running, he shuts it down, unplugs from the wall and 10 minute later plug it back again and turn it on.

One day after having used the PC once that day, it refused to post(videocard died), monitor was making weird buzzing noise and TV was completely dead.

I replaced his monitor and videocard earlier this year, there where no issues, but now the PC wont post again. Most likely motherboard died this time. PSU is EVGA G3.

 

[R-T-B]

I don't honestly see how that would harm anything at all.

 

[Ruru]

The plug/wall socket is the only one which will have some wear caused by that continuous plugging and unplugging.

I unplug my PC only when there's a really bad thunderstorm going on.

 

[masterdeejay]

Cheap PSU-s can die that way.
It is recommened to use the psu switch first.

 

[JWNoctis]

Is there an audio setup with a subwoofer? I've had multiple SBCs die and a NUC go flaky, probably after the power-saver strip disconnected everything else but them, and presumably discharged some stray voltage through the HDMI cable to the only ground that still remained connected, one too many times.

 

[ir_cow]

Cheap PSU-s can die that way.
It is recommened to use the psu switch first.

I was going to say the same thing. But there is no bases to this myth. Cheap PSU tend to die because of the components inside, not because of lack of power.

 

[Vayra86]

So, one of my relatives likes to unplug all his stuff from the wall when he's not using it.

He shuts the PC down and then unplugs the PC, monitor and TV from the wall, sometimes up to six times/day. Like if takes a 10 minute break, he wont leave it running, he shuts it down, unplugs from the wall and 10 minute later plug it back again and turn it on.

One day after having used the PC once that day, it refused to post(videocard died), monitor was making weird buzzing noise and TV was completely dead.

I replaced his monitor and videocard earlier this year, there where no issues, but now the PC wont post again. Most likely motherboard died this time. PSU is EVGA G3.

Just tell him yes, so he can stop this idiocy.

I'm quite sure the process isn't always followed rigorously and stuff gets unplugged while being still on. If you do this 4+ times per day, its a chore and mistakes are made. Zero doubts.

 

[Knight47]

Is there an audio setup with a subwoofer? I've had multiple SBCs die and a NUC go flaky, probably after the power-saver strip disconnected everything else but them, and presumably discharged some stray voltage through the HDMI cable to the only ground that still remained connected, one too many times.

There is, connected with a 3.5mm to rca cable from the PC.

Cheap PSU-s can die that way.
It is recommened to use the psu switch first.

The psu switch is half dead, when you want to turn it off there's a psychical resistance and it will jump back to the on position.

 

[las]

This should not be a problem. Loss of power should not be able to cause issues.

 

[xtreemchaos]

one might over time wear brass in the plug and socket but other wise no.

 

[pavle]

There is quite a power surge when re-plugging the PC to the outlet I would imagine or maybe with newer PSU's with resonant desing there is not.

Let them turn it off (shutdown) but tell 'em to not unplug the equipment - it's not grounded when unplugged...

 

[Chomiq]

One day after having used the PC once that day, it refused to post(videocard died), monitor was making weird buzzing noise and TV was completely dead.

Sounds like some serious issues with electricity in the apartment.

 

[SalemTheKit]

So honestly, the only thing to worry about are inrush currents and the lifespan of the socket itself in regards to what could possibly go wrong with so many cycles of plugging and unplugging the PC. Regardless, unless you have a PSU with TERRIBLE inrush currents, you'll be fine, albeit you may wanna check out a commercial grade replacement for the outlet just for longevity's sake.


...Though, with that said, a part of me gets a bit of worrying vibes from this post because I'm worried the reason for the constant unplugging might be related to some old misinformation that used to be spread around the web that could very well be true in this specific case. It used to be said that keeping things plugged in resulted in excess power being wasted and, as a result, there was a time where I specifically remember being instructed to always unplug things. I'm sure it comes from a time when there may have been bad electrical circuitry in many households or the danger of a power surge, but the fact that you had a monitor, TV, and GPU all die or get damaged makes me worried about the state of the electrics in the house overall.

Did he ever explain why he's chronically unplugging? Was there once a power surge or lightning strike that killed some devices in the house? Or is this something related to security in regards to his PC being possibly accessed without his knowledge because it's plugged in? I just have a weird hunch that there's more to this and that there may be something more dangerous going on where unplugging may have been the best/safest solution for him while not realizing there's something bigger going on with the house. I know it's off-topic from the original question in the thread and feel free to ignore this, but honestly I've had worse happen to friends who had zero idea that something was wrong and had "fixes" like this that they thought was normal. Most dangerously, I once had a friend not realize they were running an ungrounded house for over a decade (!!!) and thought that the "buzzing" they felt when they touched metal was a skin condition.

 

[Knight47]

Sounds like some serious issues with electricity in the apartment.

Well it's only his PC that has issues, the other electrical stuff works fine, nothing died. The PC that she uses in the same apartment is always plugged in and she didnt face any problems..

but the fact that you had a monitor, TV, and GPU all die or get damaged makes me worried about the state of the electrics in the house overall.

Did he ever explain why he's chronically unplugging? Was there once a power surge or lightning strike that killed some devices in the house? Or is this something related to security in regards to his PC being possibly accessed without his knowledge because it's plugged in?

He wants to save energy. Nothing died in that apartment aside from the stuff gpu/tv/monitor mentioned. Tv and monitor was connected to the Pc, so I thought maybe some inrush current got discharged through the gpu to the tv/monitor on the hdmi cables. But who knows.

 

[DaemonForce]

He wants to save energy. Nothing died in that apartment aside from the stuff gpu/tv/monitor mentioned.

Switchable power outlet when?

 

[Harlow]

The psu switch is half dead, when you want to turn it off there's a psychical resistance and it will jump back to the on position.

I've seen this fault on a friend's ATX PSU which he asked me to fix. He switches off his computer religiously at the back of the PSU after use. When his PSU's switch was actuated, fizzing sounds and bright flashes were emitted. Closer examination of the switch internals showed burnt and pitted metal contacts, plus a partially melted distorted housing.

The ATX PSU reviews on Tom's Hardware show the inrush currents at 115V and 230V AC. This current spike occurs each time you switch on an ATX PSU and the bulk capacitor charges up. Typical ATX PSU inrush currents from the AC mains lie in the range 40A to 100A, resulting in a brief internal arc each time the switch contacts close. These repetitive arcs lead to slow deterioration of the switch contacts and eventually the switch can fail open or short circuit.

The link below shows a switch-on surge of 78.580A at 115V AC and 93.990A at 230V AC on an Asus TUF Gaming 550W PSU.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/asus-tuf-gaming-550w-bronze-power-supply-review/2

The mains on/off switch is a critical component in a PSU (as an electronics design engineer, this is one of the components I choose carefully). If the switch cannot be physically turned off, you should not continue to use the PSU. In the event that arcing continues after the initial surge (due to high contact resistance), the switch could overheat and become a fire hazard.

Dangerous voltages exist inside an ATX PSU during operation and immediately after switch off until the bulk capacitor discharges. If you don't have a clue about high voltage electronics, don't open up the PSU and mess about inside. You'll probably survive if you get a shock, but it's not worth the risk. In any case, the mains on/off switch can be difficult to replace and the safest option is simply to replace the whole PSU.

This is what I recommended to my friend, but unfortunately he chose another cheap ($35) PSU, so the problem is likely to return in a few years.

Note: If you do leave your computer connected to the AC mains permanently, it will continue to draw "Vampire" power unless switched off completely. Modern high quality ATX PSUs may draw less than 0.5W, but I have numerous old computers that draw between 3W and 8W, as measured on a "Kill-a-Watt" power meter.

 

[Vayra86]

Well it's only his PC that has issues, the other electrical stuff works fine, nothing died. The PC that she uses in the same apartment is always plugged in and she didnt face any problems..

He wants to save energy. Nothing died in that apartment aside from the stuff gpu/tv/monitor mentioned. Tv and monitor was connected to the Pc, so I thought maybe some inrush current got discharged through the gpu to the tv/monitor on the hdmi cables. But who knows.

You don't save energy unplugging stuff, if anything you're going to have a larger energy footprint because you're increasing wear on components = faster replacement. Imagine the power used in the making of one component. You won't save that in your life by avoiding 'standby' devices for 80 years.

Let him buy one of these and kindly tell him to apply some common sense.

Switchable power outlet when?

Yeah its amazing how people who think this long about saving power don't figure out simple solutions. Maybe they think applying logic takes too much energy.

 

[A Computer Guy]

Just tell him yes, so he can stop this idiocy.

I'm quite sure the process isn't always followed rigorously and stuff gets unplugged while being still on. If you do this 4+ times per day, its a chore and mistakes are made. Zero doubts.

Or just buy the relative a switched power adaptor that includes on/off LED switch light and and say here this is easier, just use this on off switch.

 

[neatfeatguy]

Well it's only his PC that has issues, the other electrical stuff works fine, nothing died. The PC that she uses in the same apartment is always plugged in and she didnt face any problems..

He wants to save energy. Nothing died in that apartment aside from the stuff gpu/tv/monitor mentioned. Tv and monitor was connected to the Pc, so I thought maybe some inrush current got discharged through the gpu to the tv/monitor on the hdmi cables. But who knows.

Save energy?

My kid's gaming computer draws 2W when it is powered off and plugged into the wall (just the PC, unsure how much added draw the monitor might be, but couldn't possibly make much difference).

Leaving that computer powered off and plugged into the wall outlet for 24 hours and not powering it on will be 48W for the day.
If that computer was left powered off for a full year (365 days), plugged into the outlet and never once powered on the total draw would be 17.520KWh. For me that would cost me about $2.25 for the year.

My server computer when running draws around 75W (this is idle, would be closer to 50W if it didn't have a dGPU in it). When I power it down it also only pulls around 2W (like the kid's gaming computer). When I power the server computer on it pulls upwards of 140-150W as everything powers up and over the course of the next couple of minutes until everything has fully loaded before it gets back down towards that 75W of idle power draw.

I'd argue that he is using more electricity to constantly power things down and back on many, many times throughout the day than just leaving it run idle. Every time you power up there is that surge of energy going through everything and doing this over and over and over so many times in one day, every day could (key word is "could") result is some hardware wearing out and failing faster than it normally should.

 

[Sarajiel]

He wants to save energy.

In that case, he should spend money on a better, more energy efficient PSU. For example, he could buy a unit that is ETA-Platinum certified and is appropriately sized for his use-case, aka his power consumption should be in the 30% - 55% range of the nominal power rating of the PSU for the highest efficiency. The certification document shows detailed curves and can be found on the Cybenetics website for each tested SKU.

Shutting down for longer periods of inactivity might help, but he definitely shouldn't do that for short periods of time, since the boot and shutdown process itself increases the power draw quite a bit, compared to a PC just idling. Modern systems actually offer quite a number of power saving options in the BIOS, but a lot of DIY folks typically don't enable them.

If you do leave your computer connected to the AC mains permanently, it will continue to draw "Vampire" power unless switched off completely. Modern high quality ATX PSUs may draw less than 0.5W, but I have numerous old computers that draw between 3W and 8W, as measured on a "Kill-a-Watt" power meter.

Enabling "ErP ready" mode in the BIOS often helps as well, assuming the PC isn't some ancient potato. Especially if one has a lot of USB things plugged into the PC that don't power themselves down properly.

 

[A Computer Guy]

On board RGB defiantly doesn't help with power. If they stay on after shutdown one might want to turn off the RGB in UEFI/BIOS if concerned about power usage although it can be handy as a night light.

 

[Harlow]

He shuts the PC down and then unplugs the PC, monitor and TV from the wall, sometimes up to six times/day.

This behaviour was the norm back in the 1950s, 60s and early 70s, when televisions still used thermionic valve (tube) technology and were far less reliable. People commonly unplugged their TVs from the wall at night, "just in case" they caught fire when they were asleep.

My parents always unplugged their Pye V4 TV set (purchased in 1955) each night. Despite periodic upgrades and eventually moving from Black and White to Colour, the TV repair man was a regular visitor to the house for decades. Even in the early 1970s, it was still common for the final output stage of a TV to use one or two valves (tubes) because high voltage transistors were unreliable.

I know someone who still switches off her flat screen TV and set top box each night at the wall, so she has to wait several minutes the next evening before a picture appears. As a result, I sometimes miss the start of a program if I fail to power on her system in plenty of time.

I doubt this unplugging behaviour has anything to do with saving money. There could be a perfectly valid reason, e.g. if the local AC supply is subject to massive voltage changes, way outside the typical 100V to 240V AC spec for an ATX PSU.

I've measured supply voltages anywhere between 55V AC and 330V AC in hotel rooms abroad. In the case of 330V, a portable petrol generator was screaming away outside with a broken speed governor. All the light bulbs in the hotel room had exploded and showered glass fragments everywhere.

Unplugging could just be a sign of being "over cautious" or even paranoid, but it takes all sorts and it's their choice so stop worrying.

 

[evernessince]

I'd blame power surges before I'd blame excessive unplugging. Is his setup behind some level of surge suppression that's regularly replaced? (MOVs in power strips are sacrificial)

 

[Harlow]

The psu switch is half dead, when you want to turn it off there's a psychical resistance and it will jump back to the on position.

He cannot turn off his ATX PSU because the rear panel switch is knackered (see above) so the only way of disconnecting from the mains is by unplugging from the AC supply.

With a dodgy PSU switch that won't turn off, I too might be inclined to unplug the computer from the mains before leaving the room, but not the monitor and TV.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I was going to say the same thing. But there is no bases to this myth.

I agree. My concern would be wearing out the wall outlet - specifically, causing the spring tension in the contacts that creates a good "mechanical connection" (essential for the best electrical connection) to become weak, and eventually result in loose connections, possible arcing and carbon buildup within the outlet. Not good. Also, computer power cords probably cost a whole $0.25 to make and surely never go through any sort of quality control testing, let alone inspections before they leave the factory. Tugging on the cord's plug over and over and over again may result in damage.

So if this is to be done, best to use a switch instead, as they are designed for such on and off functions.

I note in some countries, the wall outlets are controlled by a switch anyway, and I've not read of harm caused by using those.

There is quite a power surge when re-plugging the PC to the outlet

Well, could be. Actually it is the components demanding more to start than they do to just operate. This is similar to how a car consumes a lot more fuel accelerating up to speed than it does to maintain that speed.

HOWEVER, this same increase in demand effect would occur regardless if plugging the power cord in, or if flipping the power supply's master power switch.

Save energy?

Yes, it would save energy to unplug everything. This is because some, if not most electronics these days don't actually power "off" when you turn them off. Instead, they go into some level/mode of "stand-by". If, when supposedly off, you still see a power light, a clock, or can use a remote control to turn it on, you really are just waking it up from a sleep/standby mode.

In fact, by design and as required by the ATX Form Factor standard, PC computer power supplies MUST continue to provide +5Vsb standby voltages to multiple points on the motherboard, including the RAM, when the computer is shutdown but the power cord is still plugged in (and, if equipped, the master power switch is set to on).

I will note, however, that (except for notoriously hungry cable TV boxes) most electronics consume very little in stand-by mode. So the savings in energy costs would be very small.

There is another concern. Windows and our security programs keep themselves updated when we (the user) go idle. By completely powering off, Windows Update and our security updates may not have a chance to download and install the latest malware definition/signature files, or critical system and program files. Failing to keep our computers and security current is a great way to get infected!!!