Can unplugging the PC repeatedly from the wall harm it?

[Launcestonian]

Why unplug it?, just turn off the switch at the wall or get a power strip with the devices plugged into it & just turn off one switch at the wall.

 

[Assimilator]

Based on information we know so far the toaster will likely NOT be plugged in at the time of bathing so there is no threat of death or serious injury under those conditions.

This guy gets it.

 

[xtreemchaos]

i turn my riggs off at the plug every night and have done for years i like to save a few watts to counter act my RBG addiction thro the day but i don't unplug cus all our sockets have on and off switches im not sure but i think its standard to have them in the UK.

 

[Caring1]

I really wonder about ppl who think power waste from an led amounts anything appreciable.

Apparently around $20 a year, it all adds up.
Anything with a power LED that indicates it is on standby uses power.

 

[Harlow]

Or a toaster and a bathtub full of water.

Reminds me of the times I used to watch programs whilst lying in the bath, with an old mains-powered black and white CRT television on a shelf. The final anode voltage was 10kV. With colour it would have been 25kV. Good thing it never fell in the bath.

That's the problem with being blase about high voltages. I used to work on a radio transmitter with a 25kVA power supply (10,000 Volts DC at 2.5 Amps). Now that was lethal, as someone discovered when they bypassed the safety interlocks.

Regarding lightning strikes, my house is built on sand with tall trees (60ft+) nearby. All services are underground, but I've lost various items of network and telephone equipment in two different thunderstorms. Sand is a good insulator and the lightning searches out buried cables and metal pipes.

I've fitted lightning arrestors to coaxial leads (FM/UHF arials and satellite dish feeds), run a separate heavy duty earth lead with earth rod buried in the ground up to the computer room and switched to optical fibre-to-the-premises internet.

None of this will make any difference when the next strike hits a tree nearby. People across the road had their TV blasted off the wall when they suffered a direct strike.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Why unplug it?, just turn off the switch at the wall

It is important for all to remember that much of the world, the US, Canada, and Mexico as examples, do NOT use switched wall outlets. In fact, in most areas where the mains are 110V, they don't. In Japan, where where the mains is only 100VAC, most outlets are not switched either.

 

[Wirko]

It is important for all to remember that much of the world, the US, Canada, and Mexico as examples, do NOT use switched wall outlets. In fact, in most areas where the mains are 110V, they don't. In Japan, where where the mains is only 100VAC, most outlets are not switched either.

They aren't used in continental Europe, either. So where are those outlets commonly seen? UK? Parts of Asia?

 

[Bill_Bright]

Sand is a good insulator and the lightning searches out buried cables and metal pipes.

Definitely not when wet - as happens in thunderstorms.

Sand also makes for a lousy Earth ground. We used to have to set up radio communications out in sandy Arizona and New Mexico deserts. One 6-foot ground stake/rod was never enough in that environment. We ended up pounding in at least 4, sometimes 6 grounding stake encircling our radios, then bonding all rods together with solid 4 gauge grounding wire to create a good, and safe, common Earth ground plane.

Sandy ground is not a good place to try to ground a facility, or your electronics.

They aren't used in continental Europe, either. So where are those outlets commonly seen? UK? Parts of Asia?

Can't speak for Asia - never been there. I did live in the Portuguese islands of The Azores and they were not switched there. I also lived in Wiesbaden, Germany and we did have switched outlets in parts of the house, notably the kitchen and baths (note that was 40 years ago). And I lived in Isleham and Mildenhall England where all the outlets were switched, either by a wall switch, or by a switch built into the outlet.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

Sounds like some serious issues with electricity in the apartment.

I prefer to use UPS backup units to filter power on sensitive equipment. I have seen unfiltered power from the power provider fluctuate and destroy too many electronics over the years. Especially in industrial environments where large loads cause wall voltage to dip.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

old peeps do what we find weird.

In the days thats how it was done. Like with irons for clothes. Get them a power strip with lighted switch perhaps

I feel this comment.

Switch my PSU off when I'm not near the gear. The helps prevent other forces (people & dogs) from turning on the equipment that may or may not be cooled or properly cooled, if I'm in the middle of swapping processors, video cards or coolers so forth.

It's a very old habit. I have no intentions of changing, I view unplugging from the wall the same thing just a different body gesture.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Especially in industrial environments where large loads cause wall voltage to dip.

Does not have to be industrial environments to have dips (opposite of spikes) or sags (opposite of surges) or brownouts (long duration sags). This is the problem with surge and spike protectors - they do absolutely noting for those low-voltage anomalies. So I agree. As noted way back in post #37, having our computers supported by a good UPS with AVR is the way to go. I also have one on my home theater setup, as well as my garage door opener.

 

[eidairaman1]

It can create an arc flash, wear the contacts out creating a high resistance path for current flow which can cause the magic smoke and flames to happen to your dwelling.

i turn my riggs off at the plug every night and have done for years i like to save a few watts to counter act my RBG addiction thro the day but i don't unplug cus all our sockets have on and off switches im not sure but i think its standard to have them in the UK.

I shut off rgb in the bios so it doesnt run unless if pc is running

 

[xtreemchaos]

I shut off rgb in the bios so it doesnt run unless if pc is running

and how am i going to find my rigg in the dark ? .

 

[eidairaman1]

and how am i going to find my rigg in the dark ? .

Turn the room light on, use your phones flashlight, or a flashlight

 

[freeagent]

I leave my rig running all the time.. old habit.. its how I know it still works

I just shut it off to clean or tinker.

But I have a friend who used to unplug his all the time, it was the only way to turn off his virus riddled machine.

 

[R-T-B]

it was the only way to turn off his virus riddled machine.

Ick. Sounds like the botnet gained strength everytime he logged on.

 

[Vario]

I shut down and then turn my gaming PC off at night using a power strip, the other machines pretty much stay on. Haven't had any hardware ever go bad doing this, had custom PCs for 20 years or so. I don't really buy that its any harder on components then leaving it on all the time.

Now that I have a 4070 ti super, I am doubly sure to just turn it off if I am sleeping or not at home because it has the fire prone 12vhpwr connector.

Get your friend a power strip and tell them to use that instead of unplugging it to avoid wearing out their power supply.

 

[agent_x007]

I just add some thoughts :
1) Wearing down of switches/outlets is universal, if someone uses power cord or extension from wall, those may wear out faster than those inside the wall (depends on quality).
2) Hybrid "shut-down" from Windows won't be happy with AC power loss (unless, user turned off hibernation from admin's command line after first OS install), because as default - Windows "shut down" is just a fancy sleep mode. Prepare to see "PC wasn't shut down correctly" error at least once per 3-4 "power ons" (assuming recovery menu wasn't turned off).
3) As mentioned earlier , CMOS battery will wear off faster when computer isn't connected to AC (since it will be discharging and charging A LOT more), which eventually will lead to "failed POST" errors and/or CMOS resets (and CMOS battery replacement). Those can happen even with "good enough" battery though, due to how modern boards "recover" from AC power loss. Some boards may see it as failed boot, others may not . I just hope your BIOS reset to default after CMOS fail won't "wipe" security keys (if you were using SecureBoot option).
Also, not having correct date set after first boot is the first sign of possible CMOS battery failure.
4) You are wasting WAY more energy by letting Intel CPUs push high volts/frequency for maximum performance than having AC connected all the time. Also, PLEASE watch out for ads/websites that are running video/banner ads in the background (for those not using adblock). Some of those may cause CPU usage to spike and force full clock even when just reading stuff.

 

[DaemonForce]

The ads thing is a point to really hammer home. I had to abandon Edge just because it had become so insufferable. Mind you, I don't run any kind of adblock technologies on any of my equipment. The Internet is so insufferably CLOGGED in this era that I adopted a DNS sinkhole and switched everything over to Brave browser. Random CPU spikes during streams and scrolling forums or YT finally got gone. CPU looks like this:

 

[Launcestonian]

It is important for all to remember that much of the world, the US, Canada, and Mexico as examples, do NOT use switched wall outlets. In fact, in most areas where the mains are 110V, they don't. In Japan, where where the mains is only 100VAC, most outlets are not switched either.

From my perspective, that's down right weird. Only ever know a world where wall sockets can be switched on or off.

 

[Harlow]

Definitely not when wet - as happens in thunderstorms.

Agreed. Damp or wet sand conducts electricity via the film of moisture, but when my front garden was excavated to fix a blocked drain, I was surprised at just how dry the sand was 4 foot down (above the water table). After several weeks of hot sunny weather followed by a sudden thunderstorm, it takes some time for water to percolate down through the top 9 inches of soil into the sand below. When lightning strikes a nearby tree after a long drought, current follows the path of least resistance underground when the sand is still dry. For my house, these paths include the mains supply, metal gas and water pipes, plus telephone and various cable TV wires.

We ended up pounding in at least 4, sometimes 6 grounding stake encircling our radios, then bonding all rods together with solid 4 gauge grounding wire to create a good, and safe, common Earth ground plane.

When I visted an amateur radio site in Pennsylvania with a friend who is a radio ham, the site owner had blasted a large pit into the hillside with explosives and lined it with thick Copper strips and filled it with rain water, to get a decent earth for his transmitter. My single puny earth rod hammered into sandy soil is a pathetic attempt to reduce damage the next time there's a lighning strike close to my house. Having abandoned old fashioned telephone and wired internet in favour of full fibre-to-the-premises, that's one less entry point for high voltages caused by a lightning strike. I have two blown hardware firewalls, a blackened telephone answering machine, plus a failed Ethernet chipset in a laptop, which all died during previous strikes.

They aren't used in continental Europe, either. So where are those outlets commonly seen? UK? Parts of Asia?

It's quite normal to have at least two dual 13A switched sockets in each room of a modern UK home, apart from the bathroom where it is against regulations due to safety concerns. My house which is 50 years old has single unswitched 13A sockets, because the construction company was penny pinching. They even installed cheap old-fashioned fuses in my mains consumer unit, instead of more expensive MCBs. My home's lighting circuits are protected by 5A fuse wire and the two 13A socket ring mains by much thicker 30A fuse wire. When a fuse blows, it's time to reach for a torch, the card with different gauges of fuse wire and a flat-bladed screwdriver, to replace the link in the ceramic holder. A fiddly job, especially at night. N.B. There are two 100A breakers protecting the whole unit and yes, I know I could have a modern consumer unit fitted with MCBs.

In addition, UK 13A-rated mains plugs contain a cartridge fuse, available in 2A, 3A, 5A, 7A, 10A and 13A flavours. This fuse protects the lead up to the appliance (lamp, toaster, kettle, computer, TV, monitor). For better protection, low current table lamps should have a 2A or 3A fuse fitted in the 13A plug. I can usually get away with a 7A mains plug fuse in 10A-rated IEC leads connected to ATX PSUs. 3kW fan heaters need a 13A fuse in the mains plug. Although you can select the fuse rating yourself, most people don't bother because prewired 13A-rated plugs are usually sold with the appropriate fuse value.

Better quality High Rupture Current mains fuses are frequently filled with fine-grain sand which surrounds the metal fuse link, to reduce the chance of high-current restrike through the conductive layer of vapourised metal, which may be deposited inside the fuse. This is one instance where sand is used as a protective safety feature in electrically powered systems.

2) Hybrid "shut-down" from Windows won't be happy with AC power loss (unless, user turned off hibernation from admin's command line after first OS install), because as default - Windows "shut down" is just a fancy sleep mode. Prepare to see "PC wasn't shut down correctly" error at least once per 3-4 "power ons" (assuming recovery menu wasn't turned off).

It took me years to work out why I was getting "PC wasn't shut down properly" error messages, when I booted up alternative versions of Windows (XP, 7, 10) from separate drives in an old PC, then returned to the main boot drive. It was only when I knobbled "Fast Shutdown" in Power Options and wiped hiberfil.sys with "powercfg -h off" for good measure, that everything returned to normal. I now disable these "annoying" features on all my Windows systems and don't care about potentially longer startup times.

3) As mentioned earlier , CMOS battery will wear off faster when computer isn't connected to AC (since it will be discharging and charging A LOT more),

I'm not entirely sure if the CMOS battery does get charged from the computer's PSU. The ubiqitous CR3032 is a "primary" cell and (in theory) it's not designed for recharging. Conversely, "secondary" cells (lead-acid, NiCd, NiMh, Lithium) are designed to be recharged. I'm not saying you cannot recharge a primary cell, having ignored the warning on NiCd chargers myself and "topped up" old Alkaline AA cells for prolonged life.

Instead, I'm asking if it's normal design practice on computer motherboards to recharge CR3032 cells. I've only encountered one mobo where this seemed to be the case. A multimeter showed over 3 Volts on a CR3032 in situ with the computer powered on, but when I switched off and removed the CR3032, it only read 0.7V which explained the wrong date and lost boot information. Any thoughts?

 

[Bill_Bright]

From my perspective, that's down right weird. Only ever know a world where wall sockets can be switched on or off.

And definitely from other's perspectives, having switched outlets is weird. If I had not lived in England for several years, I probably would think them weird too. I will say some houses here have rooms with "a" switched outlet, but that typically is when there is no ceiling light in the room. So they have a table lamp plugged into the outlet you can switch on when entering the room.

When I visted an amateur radio site in Pennsylvania with a friend who is a radio ham, the site owner had blasted a large pit into the hillside with explosives and lined it with thick Copper strips and filled it with rain water

Well, I don't understand the point of filling it with water. Standing water typically is not good. But I will say I used to maintain a couple MARS stations. We weren't allowed to use explosives but we did use diggers and shovels to dig 6 foot deep trenches, crisscrossing our antenna field where we then pounded in ground rods and interconnected them with bonded ground wires. This created a solid grid, forming a plane for our antennas. This grid was also bonded to our facility ground.

I'm not entirely sure if the CMOS battery does get charged from the computer's PSU.

They do NOT.

The ubiqitous CR3032 is a "primary" cell and (in theory) it's not designed for recharging.

Exactly. CR2032 batteries are NOT rechargeable batteries. There are versions of the 2032 battery that are rechargeable but they typically are labeled LIR2032 or ML2032. They tend to be considerably more expensive than the standard non-rechargeable CR2032 too.

What typically happens with ATX compliant motherboards is the PSU supplies power to the CMOS circuit (to keep user changes to the BIOS menu set) and RTC (real time clock - to keep it counting) whenever the computer is running and also when the computer is in standby mode (shutdown but the power supply is still plugged in, and the master power switch is set to "On" or "|").

The only time the CMOS battery is actually supplying power to the CMOS circuit and RTC is when the power is completely removed from the motherboard. And that is when the PSU is unplugged from the wall, or when the master power switch is set to "Off" or "0", or when the 20/24-pin power cable has been removed from the motherboard.

 

[Vayra86]

Good point. I will note almost every owner's manual and user guide says to unplug if away for awhile. That said, I recognize that is mostly shyster-talk.

I'll be very honest, I'm a sinner too in that sense. I go on holiday? I flip the switch on my power brick that all the PC stuff gets power from. I also flip the master switch on the PSU itself.

Its convenient because it also kills the constant standby of the monitor, for example. And I don't know, it just feels better to not have that equipment active in any kind of way when I'm away for a long time. Even if it wasn't required I'd probably still do it, because that to me is in the realm of 'why not' + 'muh feelz' and they matter more

Apparently around $20 a year, it all adds up.
Anything with a power LED that indicates it is on standby uses power.

Eh, it really doesn't. If you want to actually SAVE power, buy fewer devices... The reality is that every device that enters the house will vastly increase your power bill, and those that don't, never do. If a new device can replace three others, go. Otherwise? Think hard if its actually required. A good example is the smartphone. And then came the tablet. But oh, they just use a couple watts, right? Mhm, but now you're powering two extra devices alongside your PC, TV, laptop... and you're fed by data centers guzzling watts by the millions for cat videos.

Worrying about individual LEDs beyond that to me is quite similar to ordering a King Size meal and then getting the Coke Light because diet. Or taking five holidays by plane a year and then 'compensate for co2' by planting a tree. Dream on lol

 

[Bill_Bright]

Well, if going on holiday, I would not call it unwise to unplug your electronics.

 

[Harlow]

I'll be very honest, I'm a sinner too in that sense. I go on holiday? I flip the switch on my power brick that all the PC stuff gets power from. I also flip the master switch on the PSU itself.

Same here. When I'm away on a month's vacation, I switch off the 1500VA APC UPS powering the fibre broadband router, hardware firewalls, 10GbE switches, computers, servers, monitors, etc. This saves over 100W at the equivalent of US $0.31 per kWh and reduces the chance of fire due to equipment failure.

I also unplug the TV, FM and satellite antenna ampliers and disconnect coaxial leads from the wall (in case of lightning strikes whilst I'm away). All TVs in the house are unplugged, plus DECT phone chargers and anything else that needlessly draws vampire power.

The biggest consumers of electricity whilst I'm away are the fridge/freezers. If I'm away during mid winter, I also turn off the water at the stop cock to prevent major flood damage caused by burst pipes (as happened to a friend after the pipes froze in their roof). In summer I turn off the gas supply to the central heating boiler.