Nintendo Switch 2 Allegedly Not Powered by AMD APU Due to Poor Battery Life

[Darmok N Jalad]

We just got a switch earlier this year. It’s nice hardware, good for the kids, and Nintendo just has a way with taking basic hardware and still making attractive, fun games. That said, I’d love to see Nintendo make a “pro” version that’s just a plain console to allow for a better experience on UHD tvs and such, like offering better upscaling or higher frame rates.

 

[Onasi]

So it will be interesting to see what happens when we restart the clock and how the Switch 2 fares against these new handheld console contenders; mist of which have AMD chips.

It will outsell them at least 10 to 1. Unless Nin fucks up majorly like they did with the WiiU, but that's unlikely. As I already said to @evernessince, Nin has a captive market. Those people who traditionally buy Nin won't switch to PC handhelds, period. Pokemon alone is a system-seller.

 

[evernessince]

@evernessince
True, but there are a lot of people who buy "Nintendo", not just "a handheld console", and that counts for quite a lot. One doesn't get your Zeldas, Marios and Fire Emblems on the Deck.

This is true, Nintendo's branding counts for a lot. That said I do know a lot of more grown up switch owners that have transitioned to a Steam Deck. Steam has pretty good branding themselves.

Nintendo franchises have a huge potential to pull in customers but if you look at some of their recent releases, they aren't topping the sales charts. Tears of the kingdom for example was outsold by 3 million units by Hogwarts legacy for example. If we are comparing game libraries, the Steam Deck's is beyond massive and there are many good games you can't play on the switch that you can play on the deck.

Game pricing is going to be better on the deck as well, simply because steam has frequent sales and because there are multiple marketplaces you can buy from.

Plus, there is Japan - a traditionally strong market for Nintendo (the aforementioned DS draws a lot of its success from there) and with just as traditional aversion for PC gaming.

In Japan, people take a lot of public transport and electricity is expensive so mobile devices in general tend to be more popular. Hence why devices like the PS Vita sold well there but not in the west. The Steam Deck is selling very well in Japan, the original deck sold out quite a bit and the Deck OLED still has problems staying in stock. It's a legitimate problem for Nintendo because they could potentially loose a chunk of one of their bread and butter markets.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

It will outsell them at least 10 to 1. Unless Nin fucks up majorly like they did with the WiiU, but that's unlikely. As I already said to @evernessince, Nin has a captive market. Those people who traditionally buy Nin won't switch to PC handhelds, period. Pokemon alone is a system-seller.

And Mario, Zelda, and even Kirby. They do well with first party stuff, which Sony and MS are having less of as they make more of their exclusives into timed PC ports.

 

[Daven]

It will outsell them at least 10 to 1. Unless Nin fucks up majorly like they did with the WiiU, but that's unlikely. As I already said to @evernessince, Nin has a captive market. Those people who traditionally buy Nin won't switch to PC handhelds, period. Pokemon alone is a system-seller.

That’s the prevailing wisdom. So as far as this article is concerned, who wins out more? The Switch is cheap so money made by Nvidia for the SoC will be low. PC handhelds are double to triple the price and probably have lower margins. If the Tegra chip costs Nintendo $10 and the AMD chip costs $100 then its not so apparent who wins out here.

These prices are probably wrong but I like venturing into the weeds and thinking about the BOM, margins and mindshare if any to be gained.

This is true, Nintendo's branding counts for a lot. That said I do know a lot of more grown up switch owners that have transitioned to a Steam Deck. Steam has pretty good branding themselves.

Nintendo franchises have a huge potential to pull in customers but if you look at some of their recent releases, they aren't topping the sales charts. Tears of the kingdom for example was outsold by 3 million units by Hogwarts legacy for example. If we are comparing game libraries, the Steam Deck's is beyond massive and there are many good games you can't play on the switch that you can play on the deck.

Game pricing is going to be better on the deck as well, simply because steam has frequent sales and because there are multiple marketplaces you can buy from.



In Japan, people take a lot of public transport and electricity is expensive so mobile devices in general tend to be more popular. Hence why devices like the PS Vita sold well there but not in the west. The Steam Deck is selling very well in Japan, the original deck sold out quite a bit and the Deck OLED still has problems staying in stock. It's a legitimate problem for Nintendo because they could potentially loose a chunk of one of their bread and butter markets.

Very good points. I believe the market has changed since the original Switch was released. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Onasi]

Nintendo franchises have a huge potential to pull in customers but if you look at some of their recent releases, they aren't topping the sales charts. Tears of the kingdom for example was outsold by 3 million units by Hogwarts legacy for example. If we are comparing game libraries, the Steam Deck's is beyond massive and there are many good games you can't play on the switch that you can play on the deck.

You mean a multi-platform title (it was literally on everything that's currently relevant) with one of the strongest multi-media brands behind it in the world outsold a Switch exclusive that is, if we are honest, Breath of the Wild 2: Electric Boogaloo? Excuse me if I am not falling out of my chair in a shocked faint like a Victorian damsel. But it is a pont, sure, I'd want to see the performance of the first "true" Switch 2 Zelda, whenever that comes along.

Game pricing is going to be better on the deck as well, simply because steam has frequent sales and because there are multiple marketplaces you can buy from.

Good point! Nintendo has still, after many years, hasn't really fully "gotten" the whole "digital marketplace" shift and continue being stingy with discounts and pulling off bizzare moves like "here's a port of a beloved old classic... but we are making it limited time only because reasons".

In Japan, people take a lot of public transport and electricity is expensive so mobile devices in general tend to be more popular. Hence why devices like the PS Vita sold well there but not in the west. The Steam Deck is selling very well in Japan, the original deck sold out quite a bit and the Deck OLED still has problems staying in stock. It's a legitimate problem for Nintendo because they could potentially loose a chunk of one of their bread and butter markets.

That is actually interesting and something I did not know before. Any sources I can read up to get up to speed on this? I genuinely knew that Switch did OK in Japan, but not to this extent.

That’s the prevailing wisdom. So as far as this article is concerned, who wins out more? The Switch is cheap so money made by Nvidia for the SoC will be low. PC handhelds are double to triple the price and probably have lower margins. If the Tegra chip costs Nintendo $10 and the AMD chip costs $100 then its not so apparent who wins out here.

I couldn't care less who wins amongst AMD and NV. Fanboying for companies is a fools game.

 

[Daven]

I couldn't care less who wins amongst AMD and NV. Fanboying for companies is a fools game.

The oped is about Nintendo choosing which SoC. This is important not for fanboying but future chip development which can effect game quality. Don’t think too much about the fanboys but rather what tech would we all like to see in our devices and how that effects battery life, price and performance.

 

[Onasi]

The oped is about Nintendo choosing which SoC. This is important not for fanboying but future chip development which can effect game quality. Don’t think too much about the fanboys but rather what tech would we all like to see in our devices and how that effects battery life, price and performance.

There will be no "development". Nintendo doesn't participate in the horsepower graphics race. They will take what is reasonably OK in terms of performance and cost to manufacture and that will be it. Nintendo players definitely don't care what powers their next console. I know that for tech enthusiasts it's a weird perspective, but unironically discussing whether a Switch 2 will beat an AMD based Deck 2 or whatever is, essentially, a pointless discussion. Frankly, an iPhone nowadays probably beats the Switch 2 already, Apple has made massive strides. It just does not matter. Switch is anemic, yet devs who made games that are insane performance hogs on PC still managed to cram those onto it. Aforementioned Hogwarts, for example.

 

[evernessince]

You mean a multi-platform title (it was literally on everything that's currently relevant) with one of the strongest multi-media brands behind it in the world outsold a Switch exclusive that is, if we are honest, Breath of the Wild 2: Electric Boogaloo? Excuse me if I am not falling out of my chair in a shocked faint like a Victorian damsel. But it is a pont, sure, I'd want to see the performance of the first "true" Switch 2 Zelda, whenever that comes along.

Oh for sure you have to take into account the platform availability. I honestly don't think Hogwarts Legacy was some amazing game either, it was just the example that came first to mind because I know it sold well.

That is actually interesting and something I did not know before. Any sources I can read up to get up to speed on this? I genuinely knew that Switch did OK in Japan, but not to this extent.

This one is an old one so it doesn't include the switch but it's more a "why mobile gaming does well in Japan" that still applies today as the fundamental reasons behind mobile gaming's popularity in Japan hasn't changed.

Portable Gaming Rules in Japan

One of the more noticeable differences between the East and the West is the prevalence of the handheld console. The popularity of handhelds in Japan is fairly understandable. For one thing, the high population density makes open space one of the island country's most precious commodities. Also...

kotaku.com

 

[watzupken]

I wonder how feasible will it be to have an ARM SOC run at just 5W. Even mid tier SOCs from Qualcomm probably uses more than 5W under a sustained gaming load. And that’s with like 7nm or newer node. I feel while the specs sound great, it will likely be heavily down clocked to keep power consumption low.

 

[kapone32]

AMD doesn't make stuff for Android.

Is not Android a version of Linux?

 

[Nater]

This is true, Nintendo's branding counts for a lot. That said I do know a lot of more grown up switch owners that have transitioned to a Steam Deck. Steam has pretty good branding themselves.

I recall my neighbor telling me he runs Linux on his SteamDeck and runs any Switch game he wants to play thru emulation.

(does it even have that level of performance for that?)

 

[chrcoluk]

I don't see DLSS as beneficial. It means devs wont have to optimise as much and turn DLSS on to reach the fps target. Besides, doesn't 5W means it will be basically weaker than a smartphone?

Sadly we already at that point, so its about joining the club now.

Vesperia as an example seems to run at around 40-50fps on the Switch when docked, DLSS would have had it hitting the 60 cap.

Plus graphics modes arent as important on something like the Switch, if the games have extra clarity, run well, it doesnt matter if its achieved via DLSS or not. DLSS also seems to improve over native combined with TAA. Games might also have no upscaling and just DLAA instead.

 

[yfn_ratchet]

I'd consider that specific point a bit of unverified speculation on the part of MLID/his sources. I very much doubt that 'battery life' was a major consideration for Switch 2 except maybe if they wanted a hybrid ARM/Radeon chip. As is, Nvidia delivered for Switch 1, has close ties with ARM and ARM-based SoCs dating back for a WHILE, and Nintendo already has a platform upon which Nvidia plays nice.

It would be the far less costly effort, green tax included, to continue the partnership for the next iteration of the mobile console. I can only see them considering AMD as a partner for an SoC if they end up returning to the tethered console space to take up what void has been left by Xbox/Playstation, and that's a huge 'if' for every single step of that process.

 

[Lionheart]

I don't see DLSS as beneficial. It means devs wont have to optimise as much and turn DLSS on to reach the fps target. Besides, doesn't 5W means it will be basically weaker than a smartphone?

Docking mode though

Who's Ngreedia? Never heard of that GPU brand.

I know the mighty company NVIDIA and mediocre AMD.

Ergh cringe

 

[JohH]

Nintendo only "considered" AMD in order to pressure Nvidia on pricing, if at all.
They want out-of-the-box backward compatible ISA, GPU and media engines. x64 SoC was never a real option.

 

[InVasMani]

Not surprising in the least that they decided to continue on with Nvidia. The rationalization behind it is also pretty sound in terms of weight and battery life. It's a better fit for Nintendo and that market niche for certain.

 

[ZoneDymo]

Nintendo only "considered" AMD in order to pressure Nvidia on pricing, if at all.
They want out-of-the-box backward compatible ISA, GPU and media engines. x64 SoC was never a real option.

^same with Sony "considering" Intel

 

[Craptacular]

@Daven
Nah, Switch has yet to overtake the DS and the GameBoy/GBC isn't much behind. Just summing up all the pre-Switch Nintendo handhelds would be more than 3 times current Switch sales. This is not taking any other manufacturers into account. The DS alone was BIG. Like, massive.

How do you figure that the Switch hasn't overtaken the GB/GBC or do you mean the Switch doesn't have a significant lead over GB/GBC sales? Nintendo has sales figures on their investor relations website.

IR Information : Sales Data - Dedicated Video Game Sales Units (nintendo.co.jp)

 

[GhostRyder]

Good grief, I wish they would push the console a little further. I mean 15watts is not much and shooting for 5 watts is just going to hold it back as Nintendo likes to do. I know anything is going to be an improvement in this day and age compared to its predecessor, but man what they could do with some extra watts.

I am not complaining about them not choosing AMD, just even if they put an even bigger Tegra chip would be nice. I mean I get that weight is a concern on a potable console, but this is their home console and I want some extra performance at least when plugged into the dock on my TV. Would give us a lot of bigger games.

 

[Noyand]

I wonder about the sales numbers for the different handheld consoles. The switch probably has the most from a single unit but all the other handhelds might total the switch.

The switch sold 143 millions units. The steam deck around 3 millions. The other devices are too nerdy tbh, It’s hard to compete with the mainstream aspect of Nintendo.

 

[Onasi]

@Craptacular
I didn’t say that it hasn’t overtaken the GB, I said it had not overtaken the DS. Which it haven’t, 143 million last I checked is less than 154. GB isn’t far BEHIND the Switch, not in front. Around 120 if I recall.

 

[kapone32]

I recall my neighbor telling me he runs Linux on his SteamDeck and runs any Switch game he wants to play thru emulation.

(does it even have that level of performance for that?)

The switch sold 143 millions units. The steam deck around 3 millions. The other devices are too nerdy tbh, It’s hard to compete with the mainstream aspect of Nintendo.

The Switch has been around more longer than anything in the market. 2017 to 2024. As a comp the Steam Deck was released 2022.

 

[Daven]

There will be no "development". Nintendo doesn't participate in the horsepower graphics race. They will take what is reasonably OK in terms of performance and cost to manufacture and that will be it. Nintendo players definitely don't care what powers their next console. I know that for tech enthusiasts it's a weird perspective, but unironically discussing whether a Switch 2 will beat an AMD based Deck 2 or whatever is, essentially, a pointless discussion. Frankly, an iPhone nowadays probably beats the Switch 2 already, Apple has made massive strides. It just does not matter. Switch is anemic, yet devs who made games that are insane performance hogs on PC still managed to cram those onto it. Aforementioned Hogwarts, for example.

As you can see, many here ARE talking about the hardware inside and ARE concerned about the low power usage effecting performance. This IS important. Maybe you are not interested but the rest of us are.

With that out of the way, I also would like to see Nintendo do better balancing power usage and performance. The Switch is a good price but it is still 'stuck' as an Applicance or toy rather than a good gaming device. Nvidia abandoned Tegra a long time ago so I'm not sure if this is a good architecture for Nintendo to stick with. And with handheld competition ramping up, Nintendo might find itself in a difficult spot.

 

[Vayra86]

Honestly, anything would be an upgrade at this point compared to the woefully outdated Switch hardware. That console is begging for death when it attempts to run, say, Tears of the Kingdom. So more modern CPU-cores and a decent-ish GPU with upscaling will do wonder. It won’t be some performance monster, of course, but people don’t buy the Switch for that. Hard to draw any parallels with desktop GPUs. 1536 cores is less than a 3050 and there will be power constraints too. So, I dunno, 1650 level maybe?

Well a 5W Tegra SoC isn't going to run circles around anything... 1650 level?! In Minesweeper perhaps

As you can see, many here ARE talking about the hardware inside and ARE concerned about the low power usage effecting performance. This IS important. Maybe you are not interested but the rest of us are.

With that out of the way, I also would like to see Nintendo do better balancing power usage and performance. The Switch is a good price but it is still 'stuck' as an Applicance or toy rather than a good gaming device. Nvidia abandoned Tegra a long time ago so I'm not sure if this is a good architecture for Nintendo to stick with. And with handheld competition ramping up, Nintendo might find itself in a difficult spot.

Sure but we aren't 12 year olds, even if it sometimes looks like it

I don't disagree though. This is likely pretty underpowered, but then that has never stopped Nintendo ever.