• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Single-Player Games Lose to PVP in Younger Audiences Despite Recent Hits

Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
12,288 (5.79/day)
Location
Midlands, UK
System Name Nebulon B
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard MSi PRO B650M-A WiFi
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock 4
Memory 2x 24 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR5-4800
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 6750 XT 12 GB
Storage 2 TB Corsair MP600 GS, 2 TB Corsair MP600 R2
Display(s) Dell S3422DWG, 7" Waveshare touchscreen
Case Kolink Citadel Mesh black
Audio Device(s) Logitech Z333 2.1 speakers, AKG Y50 headphones
Power Supply Seasonic Prime GX-750
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2S
Keyboard Logitech G413 SE
Software Bazzite (Fedora Linux) KDE
If you don't want to play them with other players then don't -- that's the beauty of a co-op game mode: You don't have to use it, and it doesnt take anything away from the single player mode. Remnant II - play solo or with friends, doesnt matter. Far Cry 5 same thing...

Space Marine is a perfect example - it is the best of both worlds.
Let's shake hands on that. :)

As a personal note, I don't mind extra missions in co-op, but having more people "add to" (more like take away from) the story experience is like having your neighbours play every side character in a movie. Cringe.
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
10,690 (1.72/day)
Location
Austin Texas
System Name Planet Espresso
Processor 13700KF @ 5.5GHZ 1.285v - 235W cap
Motherboard MSI 690-I PRO
Cooling Thermalright Phantom Spirit EVO
Memory 48 GB DDR5 7600 MHZ CL36
Video Card(s) RTX 4090 FE
Storage 2TB WD SN850, 4TB WD SN850X
Display(s) Alienware 32" 4k 240hz OLED
Case Jonsbo Z20
Audio Device(s) Yes
Power Supply Corsair SF750
Mouse Xlite V2
Keyboard 65% HE Keyboard
Software Windows 11
Benchmark Scores They're pretty good, nothing crazy.
As a personal note, I don't mind extra missions in co-op, but having more people "add to" (more like take away from) the story experience is like having your neighbours play every side character in a movie. Cringe.

When has that ever happened to you in a co-op game?
 

Count von Schwalbe

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 15, 2021
Messages
3,025 (2.78/day)
Location
Knoxville, TN, USA
System Name Work Computer | Unfinished Computer
Processor Core i7-6700 | Ryzen 5 5600X
Motherboard Dell Q170 | Gigabyte Aorus Elite Wi-Fi
Cooling A fan? | Truly Custom Loop
Memory 4x4GB Crucial 2133 C17 | 4x8GB Corsair Vengeance RGB 3600 C26
Video Card(s) Dell Radeon R7 450 | RTX 2080 Ti FE
Storage Crucial BX500 2TB | TBD
Display(s) 3x LG QHD 32" GSM5B96 | TBD
Case Dell | Heavily Modified Phanteks P400
Power Supply Dell TFX Non-standard | EVGA BQ 650W
Mouse Monster No-Name $7 Gaming Mouse| TBD
I mean, using BG3 as an example again - you lose out on a lot of the story and interactions of the story characters by not having them in your party. Playing with 4 humans co-op turns it into Lethal Company DnD version. Fun, funny, but not immersive.

Those who play for immersion find it cringe. Those who play it as a social activity find it great.

Different strokes for different folks. I would say, though, not every game needs that. Sim games (excluding driving sims), for example, generally don't. What PvP or co-op would add to CMS21 or power wash simulator would be difficult to understand. I get the MP mods for Beam.NG or American Truck Simulator, but I doubt the popularity of the MP mods for Rimworld or CK2, and city builders I cannot imagine have multiplayer in any meaningful fashion.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
27,441 (6.62/day)
I mean, using BG3 as an example again - you lose out on a lot of the story and interactions of the story characters by not having them in your party. Playing with 4 humans co-op turns it into Lethal Company DnD version. Fun, funny, but not immersive.

Those who play for immersion find it cringe. Those who play it as a social activity find it great.
Another good example!

Different strokes for different folks.
Exactly! Some things are important to some people and some things are important to others.
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
10,690 (1.72/day)
Location
Austin Texas
System Name Planet Espresso
Processor 13700KF @ 5.5GHZ 1.285v - 235W cap
Motherboard MSI 690-I PRO
Cooling Thermalright Phantom Spirit EVO
Memory 48 GB DDR5 7600 MHZ CL36
Video Card(s) RTX 4090 FE
Storage 2TB WD SN850, 4TB WD SN850X
Display(s) Alienware 32" 4k 240hz OLED
Case Jonsbo Z20
Audio Device(s) Yes
Power Supply Corsair SF750
Mouse Xlite V2
Keyboard 65% HE Keyboard
Software Windows 11
Benchmark Scores They're pretty good, nothing crazy.
Right but u actually don’t lose anything if you choose not to do coop in those games. There are no games that FORCE that. They're 100% immersive or social, your choice - my point is all games should have that choice.

Coop games with no friends = single player games. A coop game can be a single player game with no issue or compromise. A game that’s only single player can only ever be that.

Hence they’re “the best of both worlds”. They cater to both single player immersion and the social aspect - sometimes you can play through a single player game for the immersion, then replay it with friends for the social -- the flexibility is what makes them superior to pure single player only.

For the developers that means substantially more sales and more concurrent players overall vs JUST single player.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
10,690 (1.72/day)
Location
Austin Texas
System Name Planet Espresso
Processor 13700KF @ 5.5GHZ 1.285v - 235W cap
Motherboard MSI 690-I PRO
Cooling Thermalright Phantom Spirit EVO
Memory 48 GB DDR5 7600 MHZ CL36
Video Card(s) RTX 4090 FE
Storage 2TB WD SN850, 4TB WD SN850X
Display(s) Alienware 32" 4k 240hz OLED
Case Jonsbo Z20
Audio Device(s) Yes
Power Supply Corsair SF750
Mouse Xlite V2
Keyboard 65% HE Keyboard
Software Windows 11
Benchmark Scores They're pretty good, nothing crazy.
Sure there are. Plenty of them.
You mean like 'it takes two' - exclusive coop is a niche that comprises something like 0.005% of games if that, not 'plenty'. None of the games mentioned here do that. I'm not event talking about those, we're talking about single player games that have a coop mode. None of them force coop/or limit the single player experience into something less.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
27,441 (6.62/day)
You mean like 'it takes two' - exclusive coop is a niche that comprises something like 0.005% of games if that, not 'plenty'. None of the games mentioned here do that. I'm not event talking about those, we're talking about single player games that have a coop mode. None of them force coop/or limit the single player experience into something less.
Listen, I'm not debating the merits of this subject endlessly. If you like Co-op games, buy them and play them with your friends. Those who like SP games will buy them and have their own fun. Everyone is happy.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
12,288 (5.79/day)
Location
Midlands, UK
System Name Nebulon B
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard MSi PRO B650M-A WiFi
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock 4
Memory 2x 24 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR5-4800
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 6750 XT 12 GB
Storage 2 TB Corsair MP600 GS, 2 TB Corsair MP600 R2
Display(s) Dell S3422DWG, 7" Waveshare touchscreen
Case Kolink Citadel Mesh black
Audio Device(s) Logitech Z333 2.1 speakers, AKG Y50 headphones
Power Supply Seasonic Prime GX-750
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2S
Keyboard Logitech G413 SE
Software Bazzite (Fedora Linux) KDE
When has that ever happened to you in a co-op game?
When has what happened to me?

What I mean is, playing with other people adds to the social value, but takes away from the immersion value of a game. Every. Single. Time. If you're a social player, do PvP or PvE all day long and you'll be happy. But if you want immersion into the story, playing alone is the way to go. You can't focus on the story when there's 2-3 other players next to you with vastly different attitudes towards the game or gaming in general. For example, when one of your teammates shows up in all-modded gear and goes everywhere by jumping, you just can't take the game seriously anymore (this actually has happened to me).

Right but u actually don’t lose anything if you choose not to do coop in those games. There are no games that FORCE that. They're 100% immersive or social, your choice - my point is all games should have that choice.

Coop games with no friends = single player games. A coop game can be a single player game with no issue or compromise. A game that’s only single player can only ever be that.

Hence they’re “the best of both worlds”. They cater to both single player immersion and the social aspect - sometimes you can play through a single player game for the immersion, then replay it with friends for the social -- the flexibility is what makes them superior to pure single player only.

For the developers that means substantially more sales and more concurrent players overall vs JUST single player.
If a game lets you choose, that's cool. But it should always be a choice.
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
10,690 (1.72/day)
Location
Austin Texas
System Name Planet Espresso
Processor 13700KF @ 5.5GHZ 1.285v - 235W cap
Motherboard MSI 690-I PRO
Cooling Thermalright Phantom Spirit EVO
Memory 48 GB DDR5 7600 MHZ CL36
Video Card(s) RTX 4090 FE
Storage 2TB WD SN850, 4TB WD SN850X
Display(s) Alienware 32" 4k 240hz OLED
Case Jonsbo Z20
Audio Device(s) Yes
Power Supply Corsair SF750
Mouse Xlite V2
Keyboard 65% HE Keyboard
Software Windows 11
Benchmark Scores They're pretty good, nothing crazy.
If a game lets you choose, that's cool. But it should always be a choice.
Right, this was my indended point -- adding a co-op choice to immersive SP games is a really good way to boost their popularity and more competitive with PVP:
VGI_Rise_of_the_Co-Op_Games.pdf (vginsights.com)

^some interesting data.

If you add this mode to immersive, single player titles, even when not fully implemented, it massively improves popularity, while also preserving a single player experience.

1728217138226.png


Listen, I'm not debating the merits of this subject endlessly. If you like Co-op games, buy them and play them with your friends. Those who like SP games will buy them and have their own fun. Everyone is happy.
I don't understand the point of this statement. You're in a thread titled "Single-Player Games Lose to PVP in Younger Audiences Despite Recent Hits" responding to on-topic comments. If you don't want to debate it then don't debate it?

 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
12,288 (5.79/day)
Location
Midlands, UK
System Name Nebulon B
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard MSi PRO B650M-A WiFi
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock 4
Memory 2x 24 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR5-4800
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 6750 XT 12 GB
Storage 2 TB Corsair MP600 GS, 2 TB Corsair MP600 R2
Display(s) Dell S3422DWG, 7" Waveshare touchscreen
Case Kolink Citadel Mesh black
Audio Device(s) Logitech Z333 2.1 speakers, AKG Y50 headphones
Power Supply Seasonic Prime GX-750
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2S
Keyboard Logitech G413 SE
Software Bazzite (Fedora Linux) KDE
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
22,317 (6.03/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI MAG Mortar b650m wifi
Cooling Thermalright Peerless Assassin
Memory 32GB Corsair Vengeance 30CL6000
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Lexar NM790 4TB + Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 980 1TB + Crucial BX100 250GB
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Lian Li A3 mATX White
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse Steelseries Aerox 5
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W11 IoT Enterprise LTSC
Benchmark Scores Over 9000
I mean, using BG3 as an example again - you lose out on a lot of the story and interactions of the story characters by not having them in your party. Playing with 4 humans co-op turns it into Lethal Company DnD version. Fun, funny, but not immersive.

Those who play for immersion find it cringe. Those who play it as a social activity find it great.

Different strokes for different folks. I would say, though, not every game needs that. Sim games (excluding driving sims), for example, generally don't. What PvP or co-op would add to CMS21 or power wash simulator would be difficult to understand. I get the MP mods for Beam.NG or American Truck Simulator, but I doubt the popularity of the MP mods for Rimworld or CK2, and city builders I cannot imagine have multiplayer in any meaningful fashion.
I think thats the perfect example and nail on the head; BG3, but also earlier Divinity titles from Larian have an excellent co op but even they cant prevent you to lose a lot of narrative with charactar/world building because people play 'protagonists' now, and the party members are a vehicle the games use to flesh out the story.

Popularity has nothing to do with how I like playing my games. I know that a lot of people take gaming as a social experience, but I don't.
In a strange way though, popularity of a game you also like will increase the likelihood of it being improved and expanded on further... I think its a positive that studios explore this space to find ways to marry the different desires.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
27,441 (6.62/day)
I think thats the perfect example and nail on the head; BG3, but also earlier Divinity titles from Larian have an excellent co op but even they cant prevent you to lose a lot of narrative with charactar/world building because people play 'protagonists' now, and the party members are a vehicle the games use to flesh out the story.


In a strange way though, popularity of a game you also like will increase the likelihood of it being improved and expanded on further... I think its a positive that studios explore this space to find ways to marry the different desires.
Those are excellent points. And as long as the addition of those features do not take away from the experience, sure why not. The point @AusWolf and myself were trying to make is that many titles have included co-op modes at the expense of SP elements and we would prefer that dynamic not happen.

If nothing gets lost in the translation, ok, bring on the co-op. But if the SP side of things has to suffer or be diminished, no thank you. Leave it out and preserve the SP aspect feature set.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 28, 2005
Messages
3,293 (0.47/day)
Location
Canada
System Name PCGR
Processor 12400f
Motherboard Asus ROG STRIX B660-I
Cooling Stock Intel Cooler
Memory 2x16GB DDR5 5600 Corsair
Video Card(s) Dell RTX 3080
Storage 1x 512GB Mmoment PCIe 3 NVME 1x 2TB Corsair S70
Display(s) LG 32" 1440p
Case Phanteks Evolve itx
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply 750W Cooler Master sfx
Software Windows 11
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
22,317 (6.03/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI MAG Mortar b650m wifi
Cooling Thermalright Peerless Assassin
Memory 32GB Corsair Vengeance 30CL6000
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Lexar NM790 4TB + Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 980 1TB + Crucial BX100 250GB
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Lian Li A3 mATX White
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse Steelseries Aerox 5
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W11 IoT Enterprise LTSC
Benchmark Scores Over 9000
Hmm, this article overall says gamers prefer single player than multi-player

Yeah but the comments under that article place it in the right perspective, these percentages aren't weighted proper. Its on the axis of preference per age group only, but the amount of players in each age group is left out.
 

beluga25

New Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2024
Messages
1 (0.06/day)
Is this a surprise? To anyone? Match-based PVP games, be they MOBAs, FPSs, BRs or anything else have been the dominant force in gaming in terms of player retention and its obvious to anyone with a brain why - they are often cheap or free, they have essentially endless potential for play-time because the content is other players and they simply have longevity as a main game for many. Single-player games often see a single playthrough by most people and, hell, seeing the completion achievements percentage for longer games, like big RPGs, you’ll notice that most people don’t really finish those.
It’s not good or bad, it’s just the reality of more players (that some derisively call “casuals”) being brought into the hobby over the years and they often have limited time to play and want action/fun NOW and PVP games are often good at that. Not everyone is a grognard willing to put 150+ hours into, say, a BG3. Oh, they might still play it, mess around in co-op even, but most won’t ever leave Act I. While they still come back for more to their MP grind or sweat-fest of choice. They are fast food of gaming, essentially.
"Is this a surprise? To anyone?" Haha, couldn't have said it any better. Must have been a slow day on the tech news front.
Also, pretty much agree with the rest of your analysis. In fact, it seems so obvious it shouldn't really need to be stated for anyone paying any attention at all.
And that's coming from a grognard--actually a 73 yr old boomer who's been gaming since the mid-80s, lol--who puts hundreds of hours into BG3, solo ER, et al.
 
Top