UPDATE:Nvme Health decreasing now with 3% for 5 days

[Shrek]

One thing that I always do since I started using SSD's is disable the page file.

What happens when the PC is out of RAM?

My boot drive is an Intel OPTANE SSD P1600X (118GB) so I don't worry about paging.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Exactly what I am saying..It can't be normal for just couple of days to get -2% health even installing 10 heavy game files...

Here is mine

That's not good. You should see 2% every 8 or 9 months(under heavy use), not after a few weeks. That drive could be going bad. If you get 2% more in two more weeks, RMA it.

Additionally, back up anything you don't want to loose.

 

[nageme]

move your pagefile to a standard SSD/HDD

Moving to an HDD beats the whole point of having an SSD.

or "lock it" to a constant size

Resizing files doesn't involve much writing, it's just some metadata.

 

[hermesa]

That's 300Mb/3Gb?, nothing unusual for an OS drive, you're paranoid, RMA the drive or just use it and and check in every couple of weeks, if it's defective and life span still going down in a months of "NORMAL" use then RMA it but I think you are way overthinking it and have been over using it due to your paranoia, just use the PC as you normally would, stop benching and scanning the drive constantly, also move your pagefile to a standard SSD/HDD or "lock it" to a constant size, aside from that there's no issue I can see apart from you trying to prove that you can hasten the life span of a drive by using it abnormally to write 3TB+ to it in a week

Maybe you missed something.All I did to the SSD is installed OS , downloaded the games I bought it for then deleted 1-2 of them in order to save some space and installed them to another drive.. and run a couple of tests(like 2-3 speed tests) I mentioned that for 5 days 23 hours power on(2 weeks total since it's installed in my PC config.) It went from 100 to 98%.Ok let's say it ate 2% for only installing all the games and programs and OS which again is not normal because everybody else report that their nvme ssd is loosing 1-2% after months or a year of heavy use and writings of up to 10TB....Then while doing nothing for a day+ it went down AGAIN to 97% (-1%) and I noticed it writes GB of space while being idle while there is nothing shown in taskbar using the SSD.In any way am in NOT using it ''abnormaly'' and that's what concerns me and where the problem is.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Maybe you missed something.All I did to the SSD is installed OS , downloaded the games I bought it for then deleted 1-2 of them in order to save some space and installed them to another drive.. and run a couple of tests(like 2-3 speed tests) I mentioned that for 5 days 23 hours power on(2 weeks total since it's installed in my PC config.) It went from 100 to 98%.Ok let's say it ate 2% for only installing all the games and programs and OS which again is not normal because everybody else report that their nvme ssd is loosing 1-2% after months or a year of heavy use and writings of up to 10TB....

None of what you describe should cause a jump of 2% on a new drive.

Then while doing nothing for a day+ it went down AGAIN to 97% (-1%) and I noticed it writes GB of space while being idle while there is nothing shown in taskbar using the SSD.

Another 1% gone? Yeah, something is wrong with that drive. If you have a spare drive, switch over to it and RMA this drive.

In any way am in NOT using it ''abnormaly'' and that's what concerns me and where the problem is.

Agreed. You don't seem like you're doing anything out of the norm. 1% degradation in a single day? No way that's normal, something is wrong.

 

[Marcus L]

Moving to an HDD beats the whole point of having an SSD.


Resizing files doesn't involve much writing, it's just some metadata.

Don't be silly, SSD constant writes from volotile pagefile will have more of an effect on a drives endurance than moving the pagefile to another drive or limiting it's size so it can't write all over the free space "willy nilly"

Maybe you missed something.All I did to the SSD is installed OS , downloaded the games I bought it for then deleted 1-2 of them in order to save some space and installed them to another drive.. and run a couple of tests(like 2-3 speed tests) I mentioned that for 5 days 23 hours power on(2 weeks total since it's installed in my PC config.) It went from 100 to 98%.Ok let's say it ate 2% for only installing all the games and programs and OS which again is not normal because everybody else report that their nvme ssd is loosing 1-2% after months or a year of heavy use and writings of up to 10TB....Then while doing nothing for a day+ it went down AGAIN to 97% (-1%) and I noticed it writes GB of space while being idle while there is nothing shown in taskbar using the SSD.In any way am in NOT using it ''abnormaly'' and that's what concerns me and where the problem is.

You wrote 3TB to a 2TB in a week, that's not "normal" useage regardless how you try to dress it up, like I said before, just use it, if the lifespan keeps decreasing, then RMA it and buy a different drive, though you seem to have made your mind up kinda like the " what GPU/CPU should I buy" threads when the OP already has decided and just wants validation for their decision....

 

[lexluthermiester]

You wrote 3TB to a 2TB in a week, that's not "normal" useage regardless how you try to dress it up

Are you kidding? You have no idea what you're talking about. SSDs are rated in full drive writes per day. The OP's usage for a fresh install of an OS and game collection is PERFECTLY normal.

if the lifespan keeps decreasing, then RMA it and buy a different drive

That's the ONLY thing you said that has any merit whatsoever.

though you seem to have made your mind up kinda like the " what GPU/CPU should I buy" threads when the OP already has decided and just wants validation for their decision....

Really with this? They reject your silly nonsense so you berate them in response? How old are you, seriously?

 

[Marcus L]

Are you kidding? You have no idea what you're talking about. SSDs are rated in full drive writes per day. The OP's usage for a fresh install of an OS and game collection is PERFECTLY normal.


That's the ONLY thing you said that has any merit whatsoever.


Really with this? They reject your silly nonsense so you berate them in response? How old are you, seriously?

You ok?

 

[freeagent]

What happens when the PC is out of RAM?

My boot drive is an Intel OPTANE SSD P1600X (118GB) so I don't worry about paging.

I never run out of ram..

 

[Marcus L]

Are you kidding? You have no idea what you're talking about. SSDs are rated in full drive writes per day. The OP's usage for a fresh install of an OS and game collection is PERFECTLY normal.


That's the ONLY thing you said that has any merit whatsoever.


Really with this? They reject your silly nonsense so you berate them in response? How old are you, seriously?

3TB writes on a 2TB drive in a week is not fricken normal, seriously, so hang your head in shame for talking out of your ass, even the most massive games are 150GB, he has literally installed Windows and 20 of the biggest games in existence and uninstalled them again in a week, no that's not "normal" usage whichever way you want to paint it, Windows is like a 30GB install, few apps, games etc you should'nt be over a few 100 GB but lo and behold he is thrashing the shit out of a NVME drive and wondering why he is seeing what he is seeing, I have had my drives over a year with games, multiple windows installs, backups etc and they have only seen 9TB writes, over 12+ months but 3+TB in a week is "normal"?

And yes, it is the same kind of BS thread that ppl post who are set in their ways and will buy what they want to buy but just want justification for their decisions, not berrating, just calling it as it is, he knows he's abusing the drive, he has buyers remorse for buying a lesser known brand, he wants bvack up and justification for his shitty decisions

 

[lexluthermiester]

3TB writes on a 2TB drive in a week is not fricken normal, seriously, so hang your head in shame for talking out of your ass, even the most massive games are 150GB, he has literally installed Windows and 20 of the biggest games in existence and uninstalled them again in a week, no that's not "normal" usage whichever way you want to paint it, Windows is like a 30GB install, few apps, games etc you should'nt be over a few 100 GB but lo and behold he is thrashing the shit out of a NVME drive and wondering why he is seeing what he is seeing, I have had my drives over a year with games, multiple windows installs, backups etc and they have only seen 9TB writes, over 12+ months but 3+TB in a week is "normal"?

And yes, it is the same kind of BS thread that ppl post who are set in their ways and will buy what they want to buy but just want justification for their decisions, not berrating, just calling it as it is, he knows he's abusing the drive, he has buyers remorse for buying a lesser known brand, he wants bvack up and justification for his shitty decisions

Just stop.

 

[chrcoluk]

I scanned all 4 pages and looks like OP hasnt uploaded any screenshot for the SMART data, I am not a fan of % life health in apps, I always look at raw SMART data.

On NVME drives, the erase cycles isnt typically visible, meaning the life left metrics by tools like crystaldiskinfo move based on reallocated sectors instead.

So potentially (hard to say without seeing the data) the drive is chewing through its spare cells rapidly. NVME drives also usually have a spare threshold of 10%, which I think will trigger a failure imminent in vendor tools.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I scanned all 4 pages and looks like OP hasnt uploaded any screenshot for the SMART data, I am not a fan of % life health in apps, I always look at raw SMART data.

You might have missed it, on page 2, they posted TeamGroup's own utility,

UPDATE:Nvme Health decreasing now with 3% for 5 days

I'd check the framerate and disk health. Maybe you got a lemon... They checked the disk health and accounted for at least half of the results that were reported. There is an under-estimate occurring being compared with an over-estimate. It's all accounted for in my opinion.

www.techpowerup.com

So potentially (hard to say without seeing the data) the drive is chewing through its spare cells rapidly.

Very possible.

 

[nageme]

You might have missed it, on page 2, they posted TeamGroup's own utility,

That's just read/write totals. It doesn't show the SMART stats, especially the raw values.

SSD constant writes from volotile pagefile will have more of an effect on a drives endurance than moving the pagefile to another drive

I didn't saying moving the file elsewhere would use up more writes than keeping the pagefile there.
I said, no point in moving the pagefile to an HDD because one of the main reasons for getting an SSD is exactly this use: better OS drive performance.

or limiting it's size so it can't write all over the free space "willy nilly"

Do you have any refs talking about it being handled poorly?

As I see it, Windows would do it smartly.
With its origins in the HDD era, it would have logic to avoid needless resizing, and fragmentation, because on HDDs it greatly affects performance.
And nowadays, it would also consider SSDs. But since SSDs don't map LBAs directly to low-level locations, I'm not sure what considerations it might have, other than to minimize writes.

Also, if you have enough RAM (the OP said 32GB) you're not expected to see much or any pagefile action.

The main reason I see to set a fixed-size pagefile is if you plan to use the partition almost full and want to reserve space.

 

[hermesa]

I scanned all 4 pages and looks like OP hasnt uploaded any screenshot for the SMART data, I am not a fan of % life health in apps, I always look at raw SMART data.

On NVME drives, the erase cycles isnt typically visible, meaning the life left metrics by tools like crystaldiskinfo move based on reallocated sectors instead.

So potentially (hard to say without seeing the data) the drive is chewing through its spare cells rapidly. NVME drives also usually have a spare threshold of 10%, which I think will trigger a failure imminent in vendor tools.

I guess this is what you looking for ? Right ?

 

[chrcoluk]

View attachment 366416
I guess this is what you looking for ? Right ?

Thank you for posting, looks like it possibly is erase cycles, as the"percentage used" is above 0 which I have never noticed on NVME before. You still have 100% of spare cells unused which is good. So I think there isnt anything immediately alarming to worry about here. Although if it is erase cycles consumption, it does seem faster than it should be, like you might have inflated write amplification.

 

[lexluthermiester]

So I think there isnt anything to worry about here.

Given that the Verbatim drive is older and still at 100% and drive temp is at 47C, and the fact that the Seagate is much older and at 97%(not perfectly comparable as it's a HDD, but still, it's an indicator), can we really say it's fine? Whenever I see a drive that eats up more than 1% in a few weeks, I send the drive back.

 

[chrcoluk]

Given that the Verbatim drive is older and still at 100% and drive temp is at 47C, and the fact that the Seagate is much older and at 97%(not perfectly comparable as it's a HDD, but still, it's an indicator), can we really say it's fine? Whenever I see a drive that eats up more than 1% in a few weeks, I send the drive back.

I just quickly checked all my NVME as I somehow had missed this "percentage used" before, I think the reason is its 0 on all my drives so it never got my attention, my 1TB 970 EVO is my heaviest used NVME drive which has 16.6TB of writes, assuming 3000 erase cycles, then would need 30 for it to change to 1%. SATA drives instead report cycles as an absolute not just percentage.

My SATA MX500 drives had a big write amplification issue, a rapid growth of erase cycles compared to other drives. I suspect this is a similar case. I do agree though if the option is there I would return for a different model, I dont think its a component failure but rather more likely a firmware/design issue.

 

[hermesa]

Given that the Verbatim drive is older and still at 100% and drive temp is at 47C, and the fact that the Seagate is much older and at 97%(not perfectly comparable as it's a HDD, but still, it's an indicator), can we really say it's fine? Whenever I see a drive that eats up more than 1% in a few weeks, I send the drive back.

it' 34,35 idle ... I was using it at the moment of taking the screenshot so that's why is 45C. It's with graphene heatsink+mobo heatsink.I tried with aluminium heatsink it rises up to 5-7C on both low and top temp numbers...And no , it's not temperature problem at all...

 

[ty_ger]

Given that the Verbatim drive is older and still at 100% and drive temp is at 47C, and the fact that the Seagate is much older and at 97%(not perfectly comparable as it's a HDD, but still, it's an indicator), can we really say it's fine? Whenever I see a drive that eats up more than 1% in a few weeks, I send the drive back.

Do you usually almost fill a 1 TB drive, delete half of it, and write triple its capacity in less than a week?

User error/abuse in my opinion.

 

[eidairaman1]

@hermesa are you going to do anything about this or what?

Lets not go in circles here

 

[Zach_01]

Update : Today is 97% health. Didn't downloaded or installed anything since it was 98% Can someone transtale to me what exactly means the underlined in red bottom text ?

Check task manager (performance) if any process is using heavily and constantly the disk

Click "Disk" to short processes by disk usage.

Also check your pagefile usage after a couple of hours of PC usage or gaming with HWiNFO running on tray



I keep a fixed, custom sized page file and on a separate from OS drive

As you can see I have all Samsung SSDs, 970Pro/980Pro are NVMe and 850Pro/860Evo are SATAIII.



970Pro/850Pro are MLC
980Pro/860Evo are TLC

980Pro 1TB is the OS drive and some steam games since purchased for 2years now
970Pro 512GB was the OS drive for 3 years and last 2 is used as game installations.
850Pro 1TB was OS drive on previous PC and now is general storage and some games
860Evo 1TB is games only

I have enabled overprovisioning (10%) on all drives and keep them always under 70% loaded. (max ~65% or 2/3 preferably)
Also "Trim" is enabled on NVMe drives

 

[hermesa]

Do you usually almost fill a 1 TB drive, delete half of it, and write triple its capacity in less than a week?

User error/abuse in my opinion

How is writing all of the essentials on a brand new SSD is ''user error/abuse'' ? And even if it's abuse like you say , it wouldn't drop with 3 % (1% of them while idle)

 

[LittleBro]

In order to loose 3% of lifetime, there must have been written to your disk more than 15 TB of data. (TeamGroup provides 700TBW for your disk.) I use HWInfo to check my disk for lifetime writes. Any time I do a benchmark, I can see that those writes changes accordingly.

There's nothing wrong in having disk filled at 80%. You will get slower speeds but this should not affect lifetime. Only reason why there could be substantial lifetime writes would be a scenario when using small RAM along with big pagefile. But even that should not yield 3% over a 5 days, more like 3% in a month or so.

This is definitely not a normal behavior. RMA the drive, should this trend of enormous wearing continue.

Do you usually almost fill a 1 TB drive, delete half of it, and write triple its capacity in less than a week?

User error/abuse in my opinion.

That doesn't matter. Manufacturer specified TBW value for that drive, which is unreal to affect that much even with such uncomprehendable behaviour as you described. The drive should last lifetime of warranty or TBW. Even when user manages (somehow) to consume the TBW within a week or two, still, it should last the TBW specified. Disk have safeguards to prevent them from being damaged, e.g. throttling. A disk is used for writing data and reading, that's the purpose of it.

 

[hermesa]

In order to loose 3% of lifetime, there must have been written to your disk more than 15 TB of data. (TeamGroup provides 700TBW for your disk.) I use HWInfo to check my disk for lifetime writes. Any time I do a benchmark, I can see that those writes changes accordingly.

There's nothing wrong in having disk filled at 80%. You will get slower speeds but this should not affect lifetime. Only reason why there could be substantial lifetime writes would be a scenario when using small RAM along with big pagefile. But even that should not yield 3% over a 5 days, more like 3% in a month or so.

This is definitely not a normal behavior. RMA the drive, should this trend of enormous wearing continue.


That doesn't matter. Manufacturer specified TBW value for that drive, which is unreal to affect that much even with such uncomprehendable behaviour as you described. The drive should last lifetime of warranty or TBW. Even when user manages (somehow) to consume the TBW within a week or two, still, it should last the TBW specified. Disk have safeguards to prevent them from being damaged, e.g. throttling. A disk is used for writing data and reading, that's the purpose of it.

That's exactly what I am trying to explain to @ty_ger .All I did is normal use for the first couple of days of the disk.Not installing/uninstalling and then again installing games and large files for no reason...I guess I will keep it like that ,and just when it goes under -50% health i will buy new one on a different brand like samsung.With that tempo , I guess I will have at least 2-3 months of health until I buy the new one. Because If I RMA it , the chances of getting moneyback is none.They will just replace it with same drive ,with the difference it will be new one... The money back method is only available If I return the product to the first 14 days(2 weeks). Policy of the seller company I bought it from.And If I RMA it ,I will wait at least 1-2months for a replacement so it's more adequatte just to not do it at all.And buy a new one until this one dies.