Gaming Performance is a lot less than expected

[Dr. Dro]

Personally I don't think I'm asking that much more out of it. I remember hearing about the 9700-9900K's being beasts of their time, and since CS is a game from that time that just got a simple overhaul, I think it should be capable. Maybe it's been worn too much from its couple of years in service before I got my dirty hands on it.

it's a ~7 year old machine with a 4 year old graphics card, and you're still pushing 200 fps on a current generation engine, what more can you ask of it?

 

[Vayra86]

Personally I don't think I'm asking that much more out of it. I remember hearing about the 9700-9900K's being beasts of their time, and since CS is a game from that time that just got a simple overhaul, I think it should be capable. Maybe it's been worn too much from its couple of years in service before I got my dirty hands on it.

Nah its not worn out, but high refresh is a very hard thing to keep current. Its only recently that monitors go for bonkers refresh rates. And 240 hz / fps stable is a very high target. Diminishing returns territory.

 

[Xobu]

what refresh rate is the monitor capable of?

240Hz

 

[tommesfps]

I agree. 200 FPS isn't necessary, but when I'm pairing it with a 240Hz monitor, I want to at least get the display rate that my monitor is capable of, in order to get the smoothest experience possible. I don't mean to sound ignorant, it is simply preference and opinion that takes over.

In terms of counter-strike 2 I definitely tend to agree with getting around 200fps and 240Hz display for playing it, even if you play occasionally but with some type of ambition in mind. If CS2 or Valorant or another high fps game is your main game you would likely benefit from a system capable of 200+ fps. Even though most AAA games are not exactly meant/developed to be played at this high of frame rate, which you can see in the game tests at TPU, e.g. Watch Dogs Legion test from 2nd of Nov 2020 link .

 

[dgianstefani]

Without trouble you should be able to run 3800 MT RAM with tighter timings, which would help.

Skylake is a great memory overclocker.

 

[Xobu]

Without trouble you should be able to run 3800 MT RAM with tighter timings, which would help.

Skylake is a great memory overclocker.

Would the MSI Z390 Gaming-Plus be capable of that? I mean the guy who owned this before me once cleaned the mobo with a damp-wet cloth which recently fried my SSD when i plugged it into the sata connectors...

 

[Kyan]

CS is a game from that time that just got a simple overhaul, I think it should be capable.

They just completely change the game engine, that's quite a big overhaul even if you don't see it visually.

A B650, or X670 to have a better chance of compatibility over time, with a 7600X will be great to begin in AM5 and you will be able to upgrade in some years.

I don't know how a X670E is this cheap but well, here it is at less than 500$ if you don't need a new cooler.

 

[natr0n]

You system is well tuned. Cap your fps to 120/144/160 whatever and see how it feels. Then enjoy games.

 

[RaceT3ch]

Personally I don't think I'm asking that much more out of it. I remember hearing about the 9700-9900K's being beasts of their time, and since CS is a game from that time that just got a simple overhaul, I think it should be capable. Maybe it's been worn too much from its couple of years in service before I got my dirty hands on it.

The only thing you can really do is up your resolution, it'll shift more of the load to the GPU.
I doubt it'll increase FPS however, so I'd recommend moving to AM5 or wait for LGA1851 or buy used to save your wallet and get something from AM4/LGA1200/LGA1700

 

[Knight47]

I have a ASUS ROG Strix 3080 10gb, paired with an I7-9700KF clocked at 5GHz, 32GB of RAM running at 3200MHz XMP, on an MSI Z390 Gaming Plus motherboard. Everything has the latest drivers and bios versions etc. What I was expecting from this "Beast" of a PC, was the ability to get around 100-120 FPS in AAA titles on high settings, and at least 240-300 FPS in Competitive games like CS2 on the competitive graphics settings. This seems to not be the case, as I have set most of the graphics in CS2 to low, but still only experience around 200-220 when I'm looking at the actual game and not up into the sky. The hardware is a bit old and has been used for 2-3 Years before I got my hands on it. Temps on a GPU doesn't run higher than 76C, while the game is utilizing 100% of the card. It is on a fresh Windows 10 installation as well Can someone guide me through this a bit?

While the 3080 might be a "Beast", the 9700KF is around Zen2 performance, far from a Beast, very far. Especially at 1080p.

 

[tabascosauz]

Personally I don't think I'm asking that much more out of it. I remember hearing about the 9700-9900K's being beasts of their time, and since CS is a game from that time that just got a simple overhaul, I think it should be capable. Maybe it's been worn too much from its couple of years in service before I got my dirty hands on it.

9900K for sure, but I don't think I have heard anyone describe the 9700K as being a beast. Uniquely crippled by Intel in a way that they haven't done again since, arguably resulting in a less useful CPU than 8086K/8700K in the long term. Memory controller was aight and it did have decent thermals, I guess. 10600K and 10700K were far better well-rounded than their predecessors.

CPU performance doesn't really degrade like that from being "worn out"

If you are mainly just gaming, I don't think you could go wrong with a 7800X3D or wait for the next gen 8 core X3D around the corner. Very plug and play as far as CPUs go. Prices for good DDR5 are at an all time low and boards are more reasonable too.

 

[AleXXX666]

Thanks for all the support. Yes I believe the CPU is clearly the bottleneck, and overclocking can only do so much. I'll definitely need to upgrade the mobo+ram+CPU. Like I said before, I was thinking something on the AM5 socket, as it is still supported, and allows future upgrades without breaking the bank. I would love to hear any recommendations for CPU, Motherboard and RAM as I am fairly new to all of this. I'm probably willing to spend $1000 at the max, but would prefer something around the $500 range. As for the motherboard, I don't want to pay any extra for Wi-Fi or Bluetooth, as I already have a card capable of that. And of course an ATX motherboard would be preferred. As for the Memory, it would probably be best to opt in for some DDR5. Maybe not at the highest speeds though. I feel like 32GB running at 4800MHz is maybe more than enough for what I'm trying to achieve right now. I have the Lian Li O11DX case if there should be any compatibility issues. Should I opt in for a new PSU aswell? I believe I have the Corsair RM750e PSU. Let me know!

CPU:
7500F - bare minimum, you can OC it to 7600X clocks using good VRM B650 MB. At stock is not hot, good $50 cooler can handle. AM5 has same mounts as AM4, just in case.
7600X - "OC" from AMD + has iGPU (for general desktop use, for example in case you will sell your card but not have $ enough to get new one or if yours will break and so on etc.)
7700 - good price atm, 8 cores, very strong! I suppose 6-pipe good air cooler for this one.
7700X - pointless, zero diff with 7700
7800x3D - SUPER MEGA ULTRA PRO MAX "GAMING" cpu, but overpriced like hell... like 9900K was back days then NEEDS AIO better 360 (420 is pointless IMO)
anything "higher" or 9000 series - up to yours, no point IMO

RAM:
4800 - AVOID. Start with 2x16 GB 5600 with CL 36 or lower if you find. However, no need higher than 6000, try to get CL as low as you $$$ can, I have CL 36 and for me it's OK.

MB:
B650 ANY DAY. Just get "top" MB if you want OC or 8 core cpus. for 7500F without OK you could get cheapes A620 lol.

 

[Xobu]

They just completely change the game engine, that's quite a big overhaul even if you don't see it visually.

A B650, or X670 to have a better chance of compatibility over time, with a 7600X will be great to begin in AM5 and you will be able to upgrade in some years.

I don't know how a X670E is this cheap but well, here it is at less than 500$ if you don't need a new cooler.
View attachment 366564

I've been able to find a decent system now on PC Part Picker. An MSI Pro B650-S motherboard, an AMD Ryzen 5 7600X 4.7GHz 6 Core processor, and some Silicon Power XPOWER Zenith Gaming 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 6000MHz CL30 RAM. This costs a good price at around $415. Affordable, and reliable performance. If anyone disagrees, let me know.

 

[Lost_Troll]

I've been able to find a decent system now on PC Part Picker. An MSI Pro B650-S motherboard, an AMD Ryzen 5 7600X 4.7GHz 6 Core processor, and some Silicon Power XPOWER Zenith Gaming 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 6000MHz CL30 RAM. This costs a good price at around $415. Affordable, and reliable performance. If anyone disagrees, let me know.

It's a solid build, and I am running something similar with a 7500F and 7900XT and I am happy with it, it's my first AMD rig. The build link is Jonsbo-Jonsplus Z20 Chassis Build | TechPowerUp Forums.

 

[tabascosauz]

I've been able to find a decent system now on PC Part Picker. An MSI Pro B650-S motherboard, an AMD Ryzen 5 7600X 4.7GHz 6 Core processor, and some Silicon Power XPOWER Zenith Gaming 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 6000MHz CL30 RAM. This costs a good price at around $415. Affordable, and reliable performance. If anyone disagrees, let me know.

I would at least step up to a B650-P or some other equivalent board. Half of MSI's lower end AM5 boards have a rather questionable VRM on undoubled lo side discretes, something that really wouldn't have been acceptable for a low end board even at AM5 launch. Probably won't result in any thermal issues, but why skimp for more or less the same price.

Otherwise, solid plan and good ram

edit: probably look for an equivalent, rather than the B650-P specifically. But -S is truly bottom of the barrel, and -P is in a completely different category for thermals (high 60s). -P is about $20 more than -S.

 

[3DVCash]

I would at least step up to a B650-P or some other equivalent board. Half of MSI's lower end AM5 boards have a rather questionable VRM on undoubted lo side discretes, something that really wouldn't have been acceptable for a low end board even at AM5 launch. Probably won't result in any thermal issues, but why skimp for more or less the same price.

Otherwise, solid plan and good ram

Yup yup! If you ever plan to drop-in a new CPU down the line, OP, you'll be much happier you bought a better board now. There are plenty of good options around the same price point.

If you're in the US, the B650-P is on sale for Prime Day!

The rest looks great though. The 7600X will be a HUGE step up, especially with that RAM.

 

[Xobu]

I would at least step up to a B650-P or some other equivalent board. Half of MSI's lower end AM5 boards have a rather questionable VRM on undoubted lo side discretes, something that really wouldn't have been acceptable for a low end board even at AM5 launch. Probably won't result in any thermal issues, but why skimp for more or less the same price.

Otherwise, solid plan and good ram

edit: probably look for an equivalent, rather than the B650-P specifically. But -S is truly bottom of the barrel, and -P is in a completely different category for thermals (high 60s). -P is about $20 more than -S.

View attachment 366688

What should I be looking for specifically? More points? Or Blue = Better? Idk much about temps but I currently have 6 fans including my CPU AIO and I'm planning on adding 3 more at the bottom and maybe if I find a good deal on 4 fans, I'll also be adding one next to the mobo I/O. That reminds me, will I be able to just search for an LGA1151 to AM5 AIO adapter or do I have to buy a new one? Will the 3-4 year old Corsair RM750 power this decently?

 

[AleXXX666]

I would at least step up to a B650-P or some other equivalent board. Half of MSI's lower end AM5 boards have a rather questionable VRM on undoubted lo side discretes, something that really wouldn't have been acceptable for a low end board even at AM5 launch. Probably won't result in any thermal issues, but why skimp for more or less the same price.

Otherwise, solid plan and good ram

edit: probably look for an equivalent, rather than the B650-P specifically. But -S is truly bottom of the barrel, and -P is in a completely different category for thermals (high 60s). -P is about $20 more than -S.

View attachment 366688

yeah, crappy even by rads and overall "design", LMFAO, even "budget" GB DS3H and ASR HDV are a lot cooler lol
always hadn't liked MSI "PRO" ATX mobos. Poo-color.

What should I be looking for specifically? More points? Or Blue = Better? Idk much about temps but I currently have 6 fans including my CPU AIO and I'm planning on adding 3 more at the bottom and maybe if I find a good deal on 4 fans, I'll also be adding one next to the mobo I/O. That reminds me, will I be able to just search for an LGA1151 to AM5 AIO adapter or do I have to buy a new one? Will the 3-4 year old Corsair RM750 power this decently?

cooler temps + more cb points in combo, but I'd look at temps more.

 

[Xobu]

yeah, crappy even by rads and overall "design", LMFAO, even "budget" GB DS3H and ASR HDV are a lot cooler lol
always hadn't liked MSI "PRO" ATX mobos. Poo-color.


cooler temps + more cb points in combo, but I'd look at temps more.

I'm not really the big guy for looks overall. As long as it isn't very flashy. It can have some lights maybe and then be black or Gray and that's basically fine with me.

Where is the temp roof? What is bad and what is good?

Shouldn't I maybe invest In an X3D AMD processor? Or is that not affordable at all?

 

[Lost_Troll]

What should I be looking for specifically? More points? Or Blue = Better? Idk much about temps but I currently have 6 fans including my CPU AIO and I'm planning on adding 3 more at the bottom and maybe if I find a good deal on 4 fans, I'll also be adding one next to the mobo I/O. That reminds me, will I be able to just search for an LGA1151 to AM5 AIO adapter or do I have to buy a new one? Will the 3-4 year old Corsair RM750 power this decently?

What Hardware Unboxed is showing is the MOSTFET temps while under load and what the benchmark was for the run. When you look at AM5 boards, one of the things you should look into is the how many power stages it has and how many AMPs it can supply reliably. You can see how this affects performance by how low the benchmark score is in their test. This is one of the reasons I went with the ASRock Pro RS WiFi motherboard, it has an 8+2+1 Power Phase and supplies 50A to the CPU core and will power any X700x3d chip I plain to upgrade to in the future. (It also has 3 NVME Slots and is 139.99$ at Newegg.)

I would contact the AIO manufacture and see if they have a kit for your AIO that they can send you or that you can buy (Some manufactures will ship these out for free if they have a one for the AIO you're asking about.).

I am using a Seasonic Focus SGX-750 SFX supply with my 7500F and 7900XT that is overclocked with no issues, so your RM750 is fine with the parts you plain to upgrade too.

 

[Xobu]

S

What Hardware Unboxed is showing is the MOSTFET temps while under load and what the benchmark was for the run. When you look at AM5 boards, one of the things you should look into is the how many power stages it has and how many AMPs it can supply reliably. You can see how this affects performance by how low the benchmark score is in their test. This is one of the reasons I went with the ASRock Pro RS WiFi motherboard, it has an 8+2+1 Power Phase and supplies 50A to the CPU core and will power any X700x3d chip I plain to upgrade to in the future. (It also has 3 NVME Slots and is 139.99$ at Newegg.)

I would contact the AIO manufacture and see if they have a kit for your AIO that they can send you or that you can buy (Some manufactures will ship these out for free if they have a one for the AIO you're asking about.).

I am using a Seasonic Focus SGX-750 SFX supply with my 7500F and 7900XT that is overclocked with no issues, so your RM750 is fine with the parts you plain to upgrade.

Sadly, Newegg doesn't work for me. While they have good deals and even bundles, they don't ship to Denmark . The offer is very tempting though. It's $10 more than the MSI Pro but looks to be reasonably better.

And isn't MicroATX worse than ATX? I would probably prefer an ATX board to fill out my XL Case. Besides I have a network card that plugs into PCIe so I am also a little worried that it might block some of the airflow to the GPU when they're that close

 

[Lost_Troll]

S

Sadly, Newegg doesn't work for me. While they have good deals and even bundles, they don't ship to Denmark . The offer is very tempting though. It's $10 more than the MSI Pro but looks to be reasonably better.

And isn't MicroATX worse than ATX? I would probably prefer an ATX board to fill out my XL Case. Besides I have a network card that plugs into PCIe so I am also a little worried that it might block some of the airflow to the GPU when they're that close

That is ok, you can get a better board for 2kr more than the one you originally picked out and is better than the one I have, the MSI B650 Gaming WiFi which is available in Denmark.

 

[Xobu]

That is ok, you can get a better board for 2kr more than the one you originally picked out and is better than the one I have, the MSI B650 Gaming WiFi which is available in Denmark.

I just went to see it on the MSI website, and I can choose to bundle it with a Ryzen 7 7700 for just $200 extra, making the mobo + cpu just $350. Is this a good deal? Should I go with the original thought of a Ryzen 5 7600x instead of the now cheaper Ryzen 7 7700?

I see that the Ryzen 5 7600x is only just a tiny bit better when it comes to text processing and about 1% better when it comes to single core use. The Ryzen 7 7700 on the other hand, beats it in everything else. It's even 14% better in multi core uses! I think I should take this deal!

Would it maybe be even better to look on Facebook Marketplace or eBay to find something used but cheaper? I'm s greedy guy so if it doesn't really hurt performance then I'm more likely to do that instead.

 

[eidairaman1]

What Hardware Unboxed is showing is the MOSTFET temps while under load and what the benchmark was for the run. When you look at AM5 boards, one of the things you should look into is the how many power stages it has and how many AMPs it can supply reliably. You can see how this affects performance by how low the benchmark score is in their test. This is one of the reasons I went with the ASRock Pro RS WiFi motherboard, it has an 8+2+1 Power Phase and supplies 50A to the CPU core and will power any X700x3d chip I plain to upgrade to in the future. (It also has 3 NVME Slots and is 139.99$ at Newegg.)

I would contact the AIO manufacture and see if they have a kit for your AIO that they can send you or that you can buy (Some manufactures will ship these out for free if they have a one for the AIO you're asking about.).

I am using a Seasonic Focus SGX-750 SFX supply with my 7500F and 7900XT that is overclocked with no issues, so your RM750 is fine with the parts you plain to upgrade too.

We can refer to @buildzoids videos on youtube for this, if anything keep vrms cool even if it means a fan

 

[Lost_Troll]

I just went to see it on the MSI website, and I can choose to bundle it with a Ryzen 7 7700 for just $200 extra, making the mobo + cpu just $350. Is this a good deal? Should I go with the original thought of a Ryzen 5 7600x instead of the now cheaper Ryzen 7 7700?

That is a good deal, AliExpress is usually the cheapest for the OEM version 7700 at 180$, but right now it is 213$+ the last time I checked.