Recommended "Clean" W11 reinstall method? (Trying to fix Latency)

[Fastfishy2]

At this point I'm at my wit's end trying to fix the fact that LatencyMon constantly flags problems as soon as I run any games.
The games themselves work totally fine and perform great, although RDR2 has the odd pop in some of the audio sound effects, but to be honest I'm starting to hear that the game is known for that issue with a lot of people so IDK if that has anything to do with it.
I have seen it suggested on another forum that part of my problem might be the fact that back in 2020 I bought a microsoft store version of Windows 10 Home, and last year accepted the upgrade to Windows 11. A few weeks ago I ran the in-built factory reset function including wiping all my files, but this was done internally, without an external flash drive for the boot media. It's been suggested that me doing the reinstall this way may have allowed any corruption from the upgrade process to persist into my new OS install.

What I was recommended to do was reinstall W11 from external USB boot media (which I'm more than capable of doing), but to do it strictly in offline mode, and to download "all drivers relevant to my system" prior, installing them via admin command prompt before even connecting to the internet and letting Windows do the rest.

This isn't something I've ever done, nor do I know how to do it.
For instance:
1. I don't know how to even do the installation offline, because I'm going to be asked for my MS login anyway
2. Having the "relevant drivers" installed prior means I'm going to have to grab another USB drive separate to the one I use for the boot media, which brings me to my third point:
3. I don't know what "all relevant drivers to my system" actually encompasses. Obviously I'm going to want to have GPU drivers ready, and maybe chipset driver package from AMD as well, but I don't know which other drivers are relevant and need installing prior to connecting to the internet.

The way I always did things (except for most recently) was installing windows from a boot media, in Online mode, and simply installing GPU and chipset drivers manually from AMD's installers found on their website once the OS itself had got up and running.

For reference, this is my latest LatencyMon result after running RDR2 for about 5 minutes. Everyone else seems to have it much, much lower once they fix everything up. And this is with most of the fixes I've seen listed on forums etc. (disabling core parking, disabling fTPM, unlocking the extra power management options and setting everything to 100%, turning off XPM / DOCP, those kind of things. If it's on a "reduce system latency" list, there's a good chance I've already tried it).

Or, should I just find some way to downgrade back to Windows 10?

 

[Onasi]

Download a clean iso. Configure via Rufus for offline install. Install. You’re done. There isn’t much in it. No, drivers aren’t an issue, the offline install is recommended to skip MS shenanigans. You can just install them when OS is up. Alternatively, after installation you can configure your Group Policies to prevent Windows Update from retrieving drivers before going online with that PC.
Oh, and I wouldn’t really chase after lowering LatMon numbers. They are mostly meaningless in practice unless you are actually experiencing issues.

 

[Fastfishy2]

Download a clean iso. Configure via Rufus for offline install. Install. You’re done. There isn’t much in it. No, drivers aren’t an issue, the offline install is recommended to skip MS shenanigans. You can just install them when OS is up. Alternatively, after installation you can configure your Group Policies to prevent Windows Update from retrieving drivers before going online with that PC.
Oh, and I wouldn’t really chase after lowering LatMon numbers. They are mostly meaningless in practice unless you are actually experiencing issues.

Gotcha.
I might hold off on the whole process for now unless I encounter actual issues. RDR2's problems seem to be more to do with the game itself (as the issue is very widely reported), and I otherwise don't have problems with my games at all.

 

[Assimilator]

Yeah, you're doing it wrong. If you're having latency issues then you use LatMon to try to get an idea of what exactly may be causing them; you don't turn to LatMon first, especially if your system is working okay. And honestly with the lack of quality of today's console ports, I'm more likely to blame them than bad drivers.

 

[Carlyle2020hs]

Yeah, i think you´ve tried it all!

And what does that tell us?

"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"

I would start mentioning hardware!

Like one wonky m.2 transistor on a ssd could not do the same.
*bad-970evo-batch-cough*

Or these latency (and headache) inducing ssd installations:

 

[cvaldes]

I don't know anything about LatencyMon but I do keep an archive of relevant drivers for each of my desktop system. Most of them actually come from the motherboard manufacturer's support pages; all of my AM4 motherboards shipped with a CD-ROM with drivers.

There are a handful of other things I'll install (I have a long checklist of things to do on a new machine) including Visual C++ and Microsoft .NET redistributables.

One thing early in my checklist (before I connect the system to the Internet) is to disable Windows Update downloading over metered connections. Then I just flag my broadband connection as a metered connection: no automatic Windows updates. I'll also disable Windows Updates for five weeks even if I plan on updating in a day or two.

OP's system specs show a well appointed system. There shouldn't be any issue running RDR2 at 1440p and certainly not at 1080p. RDR2 on PC is mature software, it's not in desperate need of performance tuning. The recommended PC hardware was GeForce GTX 1060 or Radeon RX 480 per PCGamingWiki

Red Dead Redemption 2 - PCGamingWiki PCGW - bugs, fixes, crashes, mods, guides and improvements for every PC game

www.pcgamingwiki.com

The 4070 is three generations newer, plenty of performance there.

 

[phanbuey]

"At this point I'm at my wit's end trying to fix the fact that LatencyMon constantly flags problems as soon as I run any games."


When you run games... the windows scheduler de-prioritizes latency mon and runs the game. So you're getting max power to the game. If you're gonna run latency mon while doing other stuff you have to lock it at high or realtime priority -- then measure.

Otherwise windows is liable to park it and give a 3:1 quantum and it's going to think your system is not responding. Your system is responding- just not to latency mon.

If you were really having latency issues you would know - game would stutter, audio would pop etc. If everything is running great except latency mon when it's in the background then you should be fine.

 

[Fastfishy2]

"At this point I'm at my wit's end trying to fix the fact that LatencyMon constantly flags problems as soon as I run any games."


When you run games... the windows scheduler de-prioritizes latency mon and runs the game. So you're getting max power to the game. If you're gonna run latency mon while doing other stuff you have to lock it at high or realtime priority -- then measure.

Otherwise windows is 100% going to park it and give a 3:1 quantum and it's going to think your system is not responding. Your system is responding- just not to latency mon.

If you were really having latency issues you would know - game would stutter, audio would pop etc. If everything is running great except latency mon when it's in the background then you should be fine.

RDR2 has the odd pop, sometimes YouTube shorts. But everything runs really well. I don't have pop issues in other games as far as I'm aware, and other than the odd poorly optimized game (looking at you, Darktide), performance is excellent.

I don't know anything about LatencyMon but I do keep an archive of relevant drivers for each of my desktop system. Most of them actually come from the motherboard manufacturer's support pages; all of my AM4 motherboards shipped with a CD-ROM with drivers.

There are a handful of other things I'll install (I have a long checklist of things to do on a new machine) including Visual C++ and Microsoft .NET redistributables.

One thing early in my checklist (before I connect the system to the Internet) is to disable Windows Update downloading over metered connections. Then I just flag my broadband connection as a metered connection: no automatic Windows updates. I'll also disable Windows Updates for five weeks even if I plan on updating in a day or two.

OP's system specs show a well appointed system. There shouldn't be any issue running RDR2 at 1440p and certainly not at 1080p. RDR2 on PC is mature software, it's not in desperate need of performance tuning. The recommended PC hardware was GeForce GTX 1060 or Radeon RX 480 per PCGamingWiki

Red Dead Redemption 2 - PCGamingWiki PCGW - bugs, fixes, crashes, mods, guides and improvements for every PC game

www.pcgamingwiki.com

The 4070 is three generations newer, plenty of performance there.

I need to update my system specs, I'm actually on a 7900XT now. Got it on clearance. RDR2 runs fantastically well, it's just the odd faint pop in the game audio. Especially with the mission notifications or while riding a horse, otherwise I never hear it.

 

[phanbuey]

Im going to install RDR2 and run latency mon with it a bit later - this is a 2 day old clean install of W11 on an 9800x3d - if it lags this system it's 100% the game.

 

[MnsoonMally]

Oooh. This thread gets my interest.

I'll be installing Win11Pro. But I don't want any bloatware.

 

[theFOoL]

Try Flyby but Look in Chris Titus (to debloat) CMD copy/paste the CMD

RuN as Admin

iwr -useb https://christitus.com/win | iex

 

[MnsoonMally]

I've noted about 80+ steps to building a new build, installing physical parts etc, all the way through to updating versions - including installing a debloated version of Win11Pro on a partitioned SSD.

Nothing beats a CLEAN system, running what you want it to run; not running what you don't want it to run - even if some of those things are 'nice - but not what I asked for'.

 

[Dr. Dro]

"Debloat" and "optimization" scripts may very well be the culprit. My Raptor Lake system exhibits the same symptoms if I change clock source, sync policy, core parking or HPET settings from default. My sincere advice - if the original setting was working, leave it well alone.

 

[MnsoonMally]

You make a very good point Dr. Dro.

Debloating is a detailed process, not for the feint-hearted!

 

[Solaris17]

Lets not thread hijack, keep it on topic please.

 

[MnsoonMally]

Lets not thread hijack, keep it on topic please.

Choose you're method carefully.

It's quite involved, so is well worth thinking about in advance!

 

[Dr. Dro]

Choose you're method carefully.

It's quite involved, so is well worth thinking about in advance!

I don't believe that request was aimed specifically at us, but yeah - it seems Windows 11 is very particular about some popular low-level tweaks, more so than Windows 10 used to be. Whether it's due to a kernel bug or just changes with how it interfaces with the underlying hardware, changing some of these popular tweak settings can cause your system latency readings from LatencyMon to go pretty insane. If LatencyMon shows what are essentially just spikes - depending on the magnitude or frequency that's ok, you just need to be concerned if you're actually running into delays, skips, lags, or weird behavior while using the system. This will occur even on a freshly installed system.

Regarding tweaked or "debloated" settings: if something offers you a "vast improvement" over the original and it sounds too good to be true for such a "simple fix", then you better believe that it is too good to be true. The prudent approach is not to apply such tweaks, or do so with a full backup ready - or at least a thorough note on how to reverse the process if necessary.

 

[AsRock]

Yeah, i think you´ve tried it all!

And what does that tell us?

"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"


View attachment 371878

I would start mentioning hardware!

Like one wonky m.2 transistor on a ssd could not do the same.
*bad-970evo-batch-cough*

Or these latency (and headache) inducing ssd installations:
View attachment 371879

WOW, that PCB is really bent .

 

[phanbuey]

Sitting dorking around on the internet:

4k no DLSS

After RDR2

I am unconvinced that this is a tool that has aged well. This is a brand new install where I havent changed anything at all on the OS. I don't have any audio popping or stutter or power saving features or whatever -- fairly certain just about any system will fail latency mon running in the background while running a stressful game.

 

[Fastfishy2]

Sitting dorking around on the internet:
View attachment 371907

4k no DLSS
View attachment 371911
After RDR2

View attachment 371912

I am unconvinced that this is a tool that has aged well. This is a brand new install where I havent changed anything at all on the OS. I don't have any audio popping or stutter or power saving features or whatever -- fairly certain just about any system will fail latency mon running in the background while running a stressful game.

yeah I think I'll just stop using the damn thing to be honest. Unless I have specific issues that require me to isolate a specific thing, I'll give it a hard pass I reckon.

 

[Vario]

I did a fresh reformat last night on my office computer, nothing to it. Win10 LTSC 21H2, get ISO, put it on a thumbdrive with Rufus, boot the computer to the usb, turn off all tracking options, select offline option in window. Took about 5 minutes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WindowsLTSC/wiki/index/

 

[Bill_Bright]

Yeah, you're doing it wrong. If you're having latency issues then you use LatMon

Right. Key point is "IF" you are having latency issues.

I personally am not a big fan of LatencyMon. It causes some to panic needlessly thinking there is something wrong, sometimes, seriously wrong with their systems - leading them to start replacing parts, reinstalling Windows, and yanking their hair out.

It is also important to note that some of the steps used to reduce DPC latency issues with some games may actually be counterproductive to lower latency goals with other games and some non-gaming tasks. Yet the program does not explain this.

Note those graphs showing a tiny bit of pink are for the "highest" reported this and "highest" measured that. But was that just 1 single high peak in that 5 minute time period? Or one of 1000s? We don't know. What is the average? We don't know. Did that high peak result in an audible interruption in the sound or audible noise (static, crackle or pop) at that instant? We don't know.

I have run this on many systems and when problems were reported, LatencyMon almost always provides the exact same error report, reading as follows,

Your system seems to be having difficulty handling real-time audio and other tasks. You may experience drop outs, clicks or pops due to buffer underruns. One or more DPC routines that belong to a driver running in your system appear to be executing for too long. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates.

One exception. If you connect to your network by wifi, the report will include the additional line (highlighted in bold),

Your system seems to be having difficulty handling real-time audio and other tasks. You may experience drop outs, clicks or pops due to buffer underruns. One or more DPC routines that belong to a driver running in your system appear to be executing for too long. At least one detected problem appears to be network related. In case you are using a WLAN adapter, try disabling it to get better results. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates.

Reviews claim it provides a detailed report on system latency. I feel it is sadly lacking detail and too generalized. One size [report] does NOT fit all.

I like how it shows the "current" status. That is valuable information. But I want more. Average would be good. And especially needed is more detail on those peak values. One event above average peak does NOT suggest a problem.

That said, I agree with the reviewer of this XbitLabs article, LatencyMon – Obsession in the PC Tweaking Community, where he says,

Overall it seems like LatencyMon is a decent tool for your testing but the problem is that a lot of people on the internet assume that the results the utility gives you are the ultimate truth. In the end, this tool is not a specialized hardware tool ... and the results should be taken with a grain of salt.

yeah I think I'll just stop using the damn thing to be honest. Unless I have specific issues that require me to isolate a specific thing, I'll give it a hard pass I reckon.

A wise choice, IMO.

 

[AleXXX666]

if you install 24H2 LTSC, there is option to install without MS Account. (or, I have disabled requirement in rufus?)
anyway, you can disable requirement for account in rufus, also, the method of "OOBE" trick in command prompt still works, search for it.

yes, I advise you to get fresh drivers for what you could get, install them, and only after that go online and let windows update download it's bullsh*t.

 

[dgianstefani]

Use 24H2 LTSC for no bloat and less spyware by default.

 

[AleXXX666]

Use 24H2 LTSC for no bloat and less spyware by default.

and don't forget to disable "AI Recall" cr*p that sends random screenshots somewhere:
ADMIN CMD/POWERSHELL:
DISM /Online /Disable-Feature /Featurename:Recall