NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5090 Features 16+6+7 Phase Power Delivery on 14-Layer PCB

[Visible Noise]

Is FP16 useless for game graphics?

Not entirely, but its use requires careful consideration due to its low precision. Unreal Engine added support in version 5.3.

 

[Vayra86]

Recently I started to think PC graphic and audiophile grade stuff look more and more of the same snake oil trying to make you spend insane amount of money for what ? For not having a few light leaks on less than 1% of your actual frame because you had to use probe based GI instead of mighty RT in your game setting. Nonsense let's cut your frame rate by half and force you to upgrade so you can enjoy your frame in 100% perfection /s.

All those influencer (DF and co) showing 5x zoom at slow-mo speed to be sure all of us can appreciate the ""huge"" diff, if you think about it they looks a lot like those audiophile journalist trying to sold you those silver cable that help bring the details without the harshness of the highs in you setup even if your are over fifty and can't physically hear them...

Yeah I've always laughed at that, as well as the comparisons between FSR and DLSS. To me all of them look like a blurry affair. The image is not crisp. Most of the time the bad TAA implementations and especially with upscale artifacts on top, are very tiring to look at. Give me native over that junk - I compare that to audio on a flat EQ; sure, its not extra boomy or extra something anywhere, or 7.1 ultra surround, it is just honest and neutral. That's fine. Similarly with audio, give me two good stereo speakers and maybe a bass cabinet, and we're done After those basics, the source material needs to count for it. And if it does, its fantastic just like that.

 

[igormp]

Is FP16 useless for game graphics?

AFAIK most engines do not implement it, and I believe the reduced precision is not adequate for graphics.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Beast mode.

This is not made for most people who visit this site, just saying

It's made for people with a bad case of HDS like me..... aka Huge D!#K Syndrome.... My wife and bank account unfortunately does not agree with me....

 

[Wirko]

Not entirely, but its use requires careful consideration due to its low precision.

I assume that FMA accumulators have a much greater precision - if they were FP16, it would really be extremely limiting.

 

[napata]

Yeah I've always laughed at that, as well as the comparisons between FSR and DLSS. To me all of them look like a blurry affair. The image is not crisp. Most of the time the bad TAA implementations and especially with upscale artifacts on top, are very tiring to look at. Give me native over that junk - I compare that to audio on a flat EQ; sure, its not extra boomy or extra something anywhere, or 7.1 ultra surround, it is just honest and neutral. That's fine. Similarly with audio, give me two good stereo speakers and maybe a bass cabinet, and we're done After those basics, the source material needs to count for it. And if it does, its fantastic just like that.

But TAA is pretty much mandatory for graphics not to break as devs rely on it to resolve dithering, undersampled effects and to avoid a shimmerfest from the materials they use. Atleast DLSS lets you pick you the best of the worst as it almost always does a better job than the default TAA implementation. That's why people talk about how DLSS is better than native. Of course apples to apples it isn't but apples to apples doesn't really exist as you're always comparing against how good the default TAA implementation is. Some of them are terrible. I was looking at some PSSR implementations with comparison against FSR and it's amazing how bad FSR is at doing actual TAA so it's really the worst of everything: shit TAA with all the downsides.

Even the guys from r/fuckTAA begrudgingly advise to use the DLSS circus method. I'd say if you have the power it's one of the only ways to get proper IQ in the current TAA landscape so Nvidia is pretty much mandatory if you hate TAA's downsides.

 

[Hankieroseman]

My two thousand dollar ASUS ROG Strix RTX4090 is 2 years old and still kicking out the frames. Trouble free in this hot box of a room.
I'd say Nvidia and ASUS is doing it right. I might balk at the 5090 price but I won't doubt it's capability or durablity.
That's experience with R9 5950X & 3090(air cooled)(4 years old) and 7950X w/ the 4090.

 

[Visible Noise]

I assume that FMA accumulators have a much greater precision - if they were FP16, it would really be extremely limiting.

By default they are FP32, but Nvidia supports packed math under certain circumstances in the shader cores, which gives you 2xFP16.

Tensor FMA can accumulate to FP16 or FP32. If you’re doing FP16 or lower precision math you really want to be running on the tensor cores because they are blazingly faster.

Full details are in appendix A

 

[AusWolf]

But TAA is pretty much mandatory for graphics not to break as devs rely on it to resolve dithering, undersampled effects and to avoid a shimmerfest from the materials they use. Atleast DLSS lets you pick you the best of the worst as it almost always does a better job than the default TAA implementation. That's why people talk about how DLSS is better than native. Of course apples to apples it isn't but apples to apples doesn't really exist as you're always comparing against how good the default TAA implementation is. Some of them are terrible. I was looking at some PSSR implementations with comparison against FSR and it's amazing how bad FSR is at doing actual TAA so it's really the worst of everything: shit TAA with all the downsides.

Even the guys from r/fuckTAA begrudgingly advise to use the DLSS circus method. I'd say if you have the power it's one of the only ways to get proper IQ in the current TAA landscape so Nvidia is pretty much mandatory if you hate TAA's downsides.

I've seen lots of people talk shit about TAA, but I haven't seen TAA being bad enough to deserve it.

 

[Visible Noise]

I've seen lots of people talk shit about TAA, but I haven't seen TAA being bad enough to deserve it.

Here you go.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I've seen lots of people talk shit about TAA, but I haven't seen TAA being bad enough to deserve it.

Yeah I've noticed a lot of people don't notice how bad image quality is with TAA but then complain about image quality with DLSS it doesn't make sense to me.... TAA is the bane of modern game development and has made image quality significantly worse to the point that upscalers can look better than native + TAA

Personally I hate TAA in almost every game it's in. It's ok at 4k but below that is shite. Maybe a side effect of me gaming at 4k so long is that at 1440p/1080p it's easier for me to notice how bad it is....

 

[nguyen]

Yeah I've noticed a lot of people don't notice how bad image quality is with TAA but then complain about image quality with DLSS it doesn't make sense to me.... TAA is the bane of modern game development and has made image quality significantly worse to the point that upscalers can look better than native + TAA

Personally I hate TAA in almost every game it's in. It's ok at 4k but below that is shite. Maybe a side effect of me gaming at 4k so long is that at 1440p/1080p it's easier for me to notice how bad it is....

Time to go 8K gaming with 5090 and 4K will no longer be good enough

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Time to go 8K gaming with 5090 and 4K will no longer be good enough

I mean it is what it is at this point I may not like it but some developers at least try not to make it look like shite but I will say DLDSR 2.5x in combination with DLSS quality at 4k does look pretty fantastic lol.... A 5090 if it is at least 50% faster will do that pretty good in a lot of games....

 

[Hankieroseman]

Time to go 8K gaming with 5090 and 4K will no longer be good enough

Getting there as fast as I can.

 

[AusWolf]

Here you go.

Yeah I've noticed a lot of people don't notice how bad image quality is with TAA but then complain about image quality with DLSS it doesn't make sense to me.... TAA is the bane of modern game development and has made image quality significantly worse to the point that upscalers can look better than native + TAA

Personally I hate TAA in almost every game it's in. It's ok at 4k but below that is shite. Maybe a side effect of me gaming at 4k so long is that at 1440p/1080p it's easier for me to notice how bad it is....

I know what TAA is, I just haven't seen it being so bad that even an upscaled image looked better. Blur is blur whether you get it from TAA or DLSS, it doesn't matter. I don't feel obliged to praise any technology for being less shit than another in some edge cases. What I need is a sharp image, not excuses why my image is blurry in a different way than it would be with another tech.

I'll watch the videos, but I'm on my phone right now.

 

[A&P211]

Hmm... I'm interested in the pricing of this card.

Its better not to know such info. I'll be in the corner rocking myself to sleep.

 

[HuLkY]

Getting there as fast as I can.

Gaming at 8K @ 29Hz, damn! this will be so eye-candy

 

[Vayra86]

I know what TAA is, I just haven't seen it being so bad that even an upscaled image looked better. Blur is blur whether you get it from TAA or DLSS, it doesn't matter. I don't feel obliged to praise any technology for being less shit than another in some edge cases. What I need is a sharp image, not excuses why my image is blurry in a different way than it would be with another tech.

I'll watch the videos, but I'm on my phone right now.

The videos offer a strong explanation of the why and the how, esp the second one.

 

[Onasi]

I've seen lots of people talk shit about TAA, but I haven't seen TAA being bad enough to deserve it.

I can actually give you a specific example. Scarlet Nexus. I have no idea how Namco fucked the bag THAT badly on that implementation. The level of ghosting in motion is just hilarious. Even more funny, since it’s a default UE4 implementation one can semi-fix it themselves by messing around with the .ini file to get to it behave better with basically no performance cost. The devs themselves just… didn’t.

 

[JustBenching]

Yeah I've noticed a lot of people don't notice how bad image quality is with TAA but then complain about image quality with DLSS it doesn't make sense to me.

You think people complaining about dlss image quality actually have ever used / noticed it? They are just complaining cause ngreedia. Same with RT. Or the 12vhpwr connector.

 

[AusWolf]

You think people complaining about dlss image quality actually have ever used / noticed it? They are just complaining cause ngreedia. Same with RT. Or the 12vhpwr connector.

I've tried both DLSS and RT. I'm taking from experience when I say that I'm not impressed.

As for the new connector, my only complaint is that my PSU doesn't come with one and I'm not the biggest fan of converters. I could swallow it on a high-end GPU (because it looks better than a million 8-pins), but with a 200-250 W GPU, I don't see the point.

 

[JustBenching]

I've tried both DLSS and RT. I'm taking from experience when I say that I'm not impressed.

As for the new connector, my only complaint is that my PSU doesn't come with one and I'm not the biggest fan of converters. I could swallow it on a high-end GPU (because it looks better than a million 8-pins), but with a 200-250 W GPU, I don't see the point.

Well yeah but judging by the fact that you see nothing wrong with TAA...oh well.

My PSU doesn't have one either, but doesn't need to. It's the side that goes to the GPU that needs to be a 12vhpwr. So all you need to do is just buy a cable, just like I did. No converters required, a cable goes straight from your PSU to the card.

 

[AusWolf]

Well yeah but judging by the fact that you see nothing wrong with TAA...oh well.

I never said that. What I said was that I've never seen TAA being worse than an upscaled image.

My PSU doesn't have one either, but doesn't need to. It's the side that goes to the GPU that needs to be a 12vhpwr. So all you need to do is just buy a cable, just like I did. No converters required, a cable goes straight from your PSU to the card.

I'm not looking for a new Nvidia card, so this topic is not worth discussing further.

 

[JustBenching]

I never said that. What I said was that I've never seen TAA being worse than an upscaled image.

Well maybe you haven't but that statement is missing a lot of information. I can say I have never seen the opposite and it's just as meaningless. How many games I've tried is what's important here, and there seems to be a universal consensus that not only does upscaling increase your framerate, it increases image quality more often than not.

 

[AusWolf]

Well maybe you haven't but that statement is missing a lot of information. I can say I have never seen the opposite and it's just as meaningless. How many games I've tried is what's important here, and there seems to be a universal consensus that not only does upscaling increase your framerate, it increases image quality more often than not.

I'm not parroting the "universal consensus" (which is often based on misinformation, but that's besides the point). I'm merely stating my own opinion. I don't like upscaling. If you do, all the power to you.

Edit: I've had this conversation a million times over, and someone always tried to convince me with the "universal consensus". It gets tiring fast, so please don't bother.