9800x 3d vs 12900k - Battle of the Century

[RootinTootinPootin]

I will join in the test as soon as the Tachyon arrives..will see it 1st hand if there really is voodoo magic with X3D and 4K gaming.

 

[phanbuey]

I will join in the test as soon as the Tachyon arrives..will see it 1st hand if there really is voodoo magic with X3D and 4K gaming.

Yes! let's see it.

 

[JustBenching]

I will join in the test as soon as the Tachyon arrives..will see it 1st hand if there really is voodoo magic with X3D and 4K gaming.

4k gaming? There will be 0 difference if you have anything that wasn't released a decade ago.

 

[wolf]

4k gaming?

Upscaling is something that affects that, as you draw from lower internal resolution rendering first. 9800X3D has felt like a large uplift over my 5800X3D at 4k output resolution.

I'm also yet to see a single game stuttering on the 9800X3D, granted I don't have a tuned 12900K system to try my best to do like for like testing against, I can't help but feel something is amiss. Every game so far is smooth as butter, with the caveat my chip is also tuned.

 

[phanbuey]

Upscaling is something that affects that, as you draw from lower internal resolution rendering first. 9800X3D has felt like a large uplift over my 5800X3D at 4k output resolution.

I'm also yet to see a single game stuttering on the 9800X3D, granted I don't have a tuned 12900K system to try my best to do like for like testing against, I can't help but feel something is amiss. Every game so far is smooth as butter, with the caveat my chip is also tuned.

4k used to mean "fully gpu bottlenecked" but you can do that at 1080P these days with path tracing.

Reviews should target a certain FPS - like say 120FPS with X gpu, If your goal is to average 120FPS with X gpu, will you see a % difference across X number of games. As the FPS number goes up, say you have a 240fps monitor and you want to target as close to 200 FPS as you can, then you will see Y difference.

I agree -- At 4k no one is sitting around rendering blurry native TAA at 4k if they have DLSS quality + sharpening + 30% more fps available.

 

[TSiAhmat]

not sure if this could change anything:

maybe only one of you has DLDSR enabled?

It's kinda hidden in the setting and applies in all games, if enabled over global settings.

 

[JustBenching]

Upscaling is something that affects that, as you draw from lower internal resolution rendering first. 9800X3D has felt like a large uplift over my 5800X3D at 4k output resolution.

I'm also yet to see a single game stuttering on the 9800X3D, granted I don't have a tuned 12900K system to try my best to do like for like testing against, I can't help but feel something is amiss. Every game so far is smooth as butter, with the caveat my chip is also tuned.

What kind of games do you actually see a difference from 5800x 3d ---> 9800 x3d? Cause I really can't see a difference between 12900k ---> 9800x 3d. I mean sure, with the framegraph open overwatch / cs / dota 2 is faster on the x3d but the 900k was already at or above 500 fps on those, even my monitor set to 480hz couldn't register an actual difference.

To conduct the comparisons I have I had to drop to 1080p with DLSS Ultra performance to differentiate between the chips. Haven't posted a video with all the data compiled yet cause im too busy playing POE2, but when the difference is ~15% at 1080p dlss ultra performance, oh well.

 

[wolf]

What kind of games do you actually see a difference from 5800x 3d ---> 9800 x3d? Cause I really can't see a difference between 12900k ---> 9800x 3d.

Your heavily tuned 12900K is surely a better example than stock which reviews would show, and I'd wager it's on (tuned?) DDR5 not DDR4 like my set and forget XMP DDR4 on the 5800X3D.

I can't really comment with certainty around 9800X3D vs heavily tuned 12900K, my point before was that I'm not noticing a lick of stutter in any games at all either.

Having said that, some games that showed significant uplifts at 4K output, using either High, Max or Optimised settings, and DLSS Quality through Performance modes.

• Space marine 2
• DOOM Eternal
• Spiderman Miles Morales
• Ratchet and Clank rift Apart
• Hell Blade Senua's Saga
• Crysis Remastered

 

[phanbuey]

Yeah if you heavily tune both chips then you have to wait a bit for the 5090 or 60 series to see a difference. By then we might have Nvidia N1/N2 with unified memory smashing everything.

 

[rv8000]

Your heavily tuned 12900K is surely a better example than stock which reviews would show, and I'd wager it's on (tuned?) DDR5 not DDR4 like my set and forget XMP DDR4 on the 5800X3D.

I can't really comment with certainty around 9800X3D vs heavily tuned 12900K, my point before was that I'm not noticing a lick of stutter in any games at all either.

Having said that, some games that showed significant uplifts at 4K output, using either High, Max or Optimised settings, and DLSS Quality through Performance modes.

• Space marine 2
• DOOM Eternal
• Spiderman Miles Morales
• Ratchet and Clank rift Apart
• Hell Blade Senua's Saga
• Crysis Remastered

POE2 is also known to have stuttering issues not explicitly attributed to a specific CPU, nor is poe a full released game as its still in early access.

 

[l1CappYl1]

I'm mostly playing poe2 but I've noticed it in pretty much every game. I'm running afterburner, fancontrol and hwinfo on the background, same stuff I've been using on every computer.

Have you tried without afterburner? I saw somewhere that it was the cause of stuttering on some x3d CPUs.

These chips scream for a delid and direct die water cooling. There's just no better way lol.

I finally got my hands on one and am planning to do just that. Just hope the delid process goes smoothly as I've never tried with a soldered CPU and am a bit worried something with crack.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Have you tried without afterburner? I saw somewhere that it was the cause of stuttering on some x3d CPUs.

I finally got my hands on one and am planning to do just that. Just hope the delid process goes smoothly as I've never tried with a soldered CPU and am a bit worried something with crack.

Nah, the tool makes it pretty simple. Watch a couple videos, take your time follow procedures, and Bam! De-lidded! Then some core lapping.... so forth. Should be pretty sweet!

I suggest lapping the waterblock with the same surface you use to lap the cpu though. I have a really thick mirror from an old infrared alignment machine that I use for example.

 

[l1CappYl1]

Nah, the tool makes it pretty simple. Watch a couple videos, take your time follow procedures, and Bam! De-lidded! Then some core lapping.... so forth. Should be pretty sweet!

I suggest lapping the waterblock with the same surface you use to lap the cpu though. I have a really thick mirror from an old infrared alignment machine that I use for example.

I've done some lapping on the ihs previously, but never on the core itself. Seems pretty risky.
I have the direct die block from Thermal Grizzly, so I'll assume that it is already the correct thickness required.

 

[JustBenching]

Have you tried without afterburner? I saw somewhere that it was the cause of stuttering on some x3d CPUs.

No, but I wanna play some POE2, not keep testing

 

[oxrufiioxo]

No, but I wanna play some POE2, not keep testing

Why maps suck lol

Mo benching less playing bruh get with the program

 

[ShrimpBrime]

I've done some lapping on the ihs previously, but never on the core itself. Seems pretty risky.
I have the direct die block from Thermal Grizzly, so I'll assume that it is already the correct thickness required.

You have to lap the core. Gotta remove the solder ya know.

 

[JustBenching]

Why maps suck lol

Mo benching less playing bruh get with the program

Patch incoming within the week

 

[phanbuey]

Why maps suck lol

Mo benching less playing bruh get with the program

My god they do.

POE 2 campaign was awesome - i did maps and ramped to t5 maps pretty quickly but it's so repetitive -- they're the ultimate "do this maps so you can do more maps." game loop.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

My god they do.

POE 2 campaign was awesome - i did maps and ramped to t5 maps pretty quickly but it's so repetitive -- they're the ultimate "do this maps so you can do more maps." game loop.

The games awesome, level progression is awesome, class diversity is decent, but the end game and melee classes suck ass...

The early game can be frustrating if you're new to the game and leveling can hit a wall if you invest in the wrong things I still think the perfect arpg should allow you to do whatever you want and still have success unfortunately no game has ever balanced that perfectly and likely never will.

I mean it is early access which is a big reason I'm not dumping too much time into it. Capped at T10 maps...

I liked the campaign in D4 better but like poe from a gameplay perspective much better. Still ones like a blockbuster popcorn movie and the other is like a Nolan directed film I like both but neither are perfect.

 

[JustBenching]

The games awesome, level progression is awesome, class diversity is decent, but the end game and melee classes suck ass...

The early game can be frustrating if you're new to the game and leveling can hit a wall if you invest in the wrong things I still think the perfect arpg should allow you to do whatever you want and still have success unfortunately no game has ever balanced that perfectly and likely never will.

I mean it is early access which is a big reason I'm not dumping too much time into it. Capped at T10 maps...

I liked the campaign in D4 better but like poe from a gameplay perspective much better. Still ones like a blockbuster popcorn movie and the other is like a Nolan directed film I like both but neither are perfect.

My god they do.

POE 2 campaign was awesome - i did maps and ramped to t5 maps pretty quickly but it's so repetitive -- they're the ultimate "do this maps so you can do more maps." game loop.

Rookies

Im 85+ level on 4 chars doing T15s-T16s. Kinda stopped now, waiting for some patches cause no freaking citadels on sight.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Rookies

Im 85+ level on 4 chars doing T15s-T16s. Kinda stopped now, waiting for some patches cause no freaking citadels on sight.

Honestly they are so repetitive the only actual fun thing is Breach maps but even then the reward for doing them is meh pretty sure most are paying bots for equipment which is wild to me for what is essentially a beta lol.

 

[x4it3n]

No, ill check it out

Did you see a difference then? In my case the 0.1% are much lower when Overclocking. That's so weird... Maybe my chip isn't that good though.

 

[phanbuey]

Did you see a difference then? In my case the 0.1% are much lower when Overclocking. That's so weird... Maybe my chip isn't that good though.

Overclocking as in PBO or are you also touching ram? Have you tried a static OC?

My lows do struggle if I mess with the ram settings, and also if I enable "Low latency mode" it makes the sutters a bit more obvious - PBO doesn't have any negative impact, though.

 

[mkppo]

I will join in the test as soon as the Tachyon arrives..will see it 1st hand if there really is voodoo magic with X3D and 4K gaming.

I've been waiting for the X870 Tachyon ever since I heard a whiff of it but honestly got tired of waiting for so damn long and got a B650-HDV to tide me over for now. Mobo manufacturers be doing jack shit for years and literally released TWO boards with good memory overclocking ever since X870's launch, both of which were super limited in stock. Hell, the Tachyon was borderline vaporware, I tried to buy one for ages but short of getting it from Japan it was damn near impossible. Gene was available for a while, but there were a few revisions with A04 being the best one of the lot and I missed out while trying to get that specific revision and soon enough they were gone and people were asking stupid prices for it.

Meanwhile there are 100+ meh boards to choose ranging from cheap to overpriced garbage. I mean, just release a goddamn 2 DIMM board with decent traces for a decent price. It can't be that hard. Sure the 4 dimmers have their place but how do you have 20 models with 4 dimms and none with 2 other than the obvious yet rare ITX boards? How about stop adding 100,000 power stages but instead work on improving the memory traces so people can actually gain performance in real life and not on LN2. It's ridiculous that my $100 6 layer basic as f HDV overclocks memory better than the outgoing X670E aorus pro x and with the same Team 8000 kit (hynix 24g m-die).

So now we have the x870 tachyon ice and X870E Apex coming up. God knows what they'll be priced at but if it's half decent like the previous two I might get one. My current 8000 tune with the HDV is decent and nets me significant gains compared to stock though so I might hold out for a couple of years till Zen 6 or whatever. That Apex looks tasty and I need to find a way to resist it. Maybe if I stop seeing dom's results (Safedisk is having a proper go at it too) I'll forget about the board. If you're wondering what the CPU is, it's a GS ES 9950X non 3D. Now I need to stop thinking about 8400:4200:2100:2100 GDM disabled tunes.

@OP sorry for the off topic post, I just had to rant as soon as I saw the word Tachyon.

Did you see a difference then? In my case the 0.1% are much lower when Overclocking. That's so weird... Maybe my chip isn't that good though.

Shouldn't be the case unless the CPU is borderline unstable, especially FCLK which seems to error correct a lot and lose performance but still hang on. Memory instability can also in some cases result in lower performance.

Does the same happen if you overclock and bench in small increments and track performance? Are you overclocking the memory/CPU or both?

 

[JustBenching]

I've been waiting for the X870 Tachyon ever since I heard a whiff of it but honestly got tired of waiting for so damn long and got a B650-HDV to tide me over for now. Mobo manufacturers be doing jack shit for years and literally released TWO boards with good memory overclocking ever since X870's launch, both of which were super limited in stock. Hell, the Tachyon was borderline vaporware, I tried to buy one for ages but short of getting it from Japan it was damn near impossible. Gene was available for a while, but there were a few revisions with A04 being the best one of the lot and I missed out while trying to get that specific revision and soon enough they were gone and people were asking stupid prices for it.

Meanwhile there are 100+ meh boards to choose ranging from cheap to overpriced garbage. I mean, just release a goddamn 2 DIMM board with decent traces for a decent price. It can't be that hard. Sure the 4 dimmers have their place but how do you have 20 models with 4 dimms and none with 2 other than the obvious yet rare ITX boards? How about stop adding 100,000 power stages but instead work on improving the memory traces so people can actually gain performance in real life and not on LN2. It's ridiculous that my $100 6 layer basic as f HDV overclocks memory better than the outgoing X670E aorus pro x and with the same Team 8000 kit (hynix 24g m-die).

So now we have the x870 tachyon ice and X870E Apex coming up. God knows what they'll be priced at but if it's half decent like the previous two I might get one. My current 8000 tune with the HDV is decent and nets me significant gains compared to stock though so I might hold out for a couple of years till Zen 6 or whatever. That Apex looks tasty and I need to find a way to resist it. Maybe if I stop seeing dom's results (Safedisk is having a proper go at it too) I'll forget about the board. If you're wondering what the CPU is, it's a GS ES 9950X non 3D. Now I need to stop thinking about 8400:4200:2100:2100 GDM disabled tunes.

The HDV can't go over 8200. Or maybe it's just my ram, dunno. Can't make it even boot. Still pretty nuts for the price.