RTX 5080 - premature review - it sucks

[Dragam1337]

Really? Aren't you in the US where essentially the statistics are very similar?

Then again, your country is broke, and living off of debt so I guess debt isn't too much of an issue for you Yanks. Borrow till eternity.

Thing about murica is that equality is drastically less than in canada (and rest the west) - huge difference between rich and poor. So if you live in a rich walled neighbourhood, then i guess it can seem like 5k usd is pocketchange to most people.

Gini coefficient - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[lexluthermiester]

Nvidias pricing and the scalping has considerably changed that dynamic.

The pandemic and cryptocoin mining changed that, NVidia is just running with it. Is that a good or right thing, no, but they didn't create the condition.

Really? Aren't you in the US where essentially the statistics are very similar?

Depends on where you live. Where I live people are fairly affluent.

Then again, your country is broke, and living off of debt so I guess debt isn't too much of an issue for you Yanks. Borrow till eternity.

We are not opening that conversational can of worms..

 

[sepheronx]

yeah, fair point. We are just getting poorer across the board here. You guys have much more options for wealthy people. Of course this is all off topic now for most part.

Mind you, I usually get cheap computer parts from Americans. In 3 separate cases it was from people who had medical bills to pay. So I'll wait till someone else in the US needs medical treatments before I upgrade. Sucks really for the other individual and I do not wish ill upon anyone.

 

[Caring1]

Again.. if you don't have a card, what are you going to buy?

Why the compulsion to spend?
Be happy with what you have until prices become more realistic.
Even the retailers are scalping.

 

[sepheronx]

The other option I guess is to look at the mid-low end and used GPU market.

RTX 3060 is a solid GPU and really just overall good for 1080p and 1440p. I have a few of them. RTX 3070 used can also be really good for mid 1440p. I know some will disagree because of 8gb but the 8gb limit isn't really all that limiting unless trying to play on high/ultra and that isn't gonna happen with a 3070 anyway or the 3060 with more vram. If you snag a 3080 12gb for decent price then thats awesome. AMD side, the 6800/XT and 6700XT are fantastic still.

Problem is, that isn't new. Buying new right now feels like a scam. Intel would have had it right if it wasn't for their driver overhead issues with slower CPU's.

 

[JustBenching]

No, those are just model names, totally arbitrary, made up by Nvidia to make them look different. They're not. They're the same architecture, same chip even. If they could sell the Super for a grand, then there was no reason to sell the vanilla 4080 for $200 more other than greed. No comparison should be made to such a bad value card when a better one came out a year later from the same company. It's the Super that we wanted improvement upon this time, not the vanilla 4080.

Edit: You can be sure that a shit ton of Blackwell chips are being reserved for the Super cards coming soon, hence the "shortage". Super is not a new generation, not even a refresh. It's just artificial product segmentation. The illusion of Nvidia giving you more without actually giving you more.

Edit 2: If I make a comparison to last gen, damn right I'll make it to the better card with the better price tag, not the worse one, regardless of the label on the box.

Because your argument boils down to "if the 4080S never released then the 5080 would be a better card" which obviously is completely illogical

I can respect that for sure, but there's no reason to claim it's zero when it's not.

I can see why people would compare to the super, it's the closest most modern product it replaces. But yeah still not zero, it's more at the same price at the very least. 14% more on average when as GPU limited as possible, of course based on TPU's selection. It can be 20%+ faster in some scenario's, as well as basically the same in others, although I'd expect drivers/game patches/optimisation to remedy those rare edge cases in time.

Personally I'd be expecting that gap to slowly widen over time too, as we see the architectural changes and enhancements in Blackwell get leveraged.

If you are going to compare it with the 4080S then you are looking at a 14% improvement in 1 year and not a gen on gen. 14% a year is pretty respectable. 14% a year means 48% improvement after 3 years / gen on gen.

 

[AusWolf]

Today I leaned that 14% at the same price is zero.

View attachment 383024

I'm not applauding it, but it's not zero.

14 percent is barely above "margin of error" territory. You totally wouldn't notice it in a game without an FPS counter on screen.

Because your argument boils down to "if the 4080S never released then the 5080 would be a better card" which obviously is completely illogical

The 4080S did release, so it's a pointless argument.

If you are going to compare it with the 4080S then you are looking at a 14% improvement in 1 year and not a gen on gen. 14% a year is pretty respectable. 14% a year means 48% improvement after 3 years / gen on gen.

It is gen on gen. Ada vs Blackwell. Now tell me, if the 4080S was $1000, then why did the regular 4080 based on a cut down version of the exact same chip have to cost 1200 just a year prior.

 

[wolf]

If you are going to compare it with the 4080S then you are looking at a 14% improvement in 1 year and not a gen on gen. 14% a year is pretty respectable. 14% a year means 48% improvement after 3 years / gen on gen.

Ehhhh that's a pretty generous take imo, I can see how you got there, but I'm not viewing it that optimistically.

14 percent is barely above "margin of error" territory. You totally wouldn't notice it in a game without an FPS counter on screen.

Hard disagree, it's flat out misinformation to say that the uplift in performance is zero. I can only speak for myself when noticing the difference, but in most new games targeting between 60 and 120fps, I can feel the difference between my ultra conservative undervolt and my max gaming profile, which is about a 10% performance delta.

 

[AusWolf]

Hard disagree, it's flat out misinformation to say that the uplift in performance is zero. I can only speak for myself when noticing the difference, but in most new games targeting between 60 and 120fps, I can feel the difference between my ultra conservative undervolt and my max gaming profile, which is about a 10% performance delta.

I'll speak for myself, then. I haven't in my entire life encountered a single situation where a 14% performance difference could be felt without an FPS counter on screen.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Hard disagree, it's flat out misinformation to say that the uplift in performance is zero. I can only speak for myself when noticing the difference, but in most new games targeting between 60 and 120fps, I can feel the difference between my ultra conservative undervolt and my max gaming profile, which is about a 10% performance delta.

You must have some amazing perception if you could tell the difference of 100 and 114 fps......

 

[wolf]

I'll speak for myself, then. I haven't in my entire life encountered a single situation where a 14% performance difference could be felt without an FPS counter on screen.

Fair enough to that

You must have some amazing perception if you could tell the difference of 100 and 114 fps......

I do

But also I'll add that this is context dependant/an odd tangent. I'm not saying 4080S buyers should upgrade to a 5080, that would be daft. I'm not saying anyone should buy a whole new GPU for a 14% uplift, I'd very much advise them not to. My point here this time around that appears to be derailed is, the 5080 is on average 14% faster than a 4080S in TPU's test suite at 4k, not zero % faster. Someone coming from and older slower GPU would need to consider the price of all options locally, the features they want and so on. To someone gaining ~50%+ from what they're coming from, could face deciding between the two, and the delta would be relevant to them, as they don't perform identically.

 

[JustBenching]

The 4080S did release, so it's a pointless argument.


It is gen on gen. Ada vs Blackwell. Now tell me, if the 4080S was $1000, then why did the regular 4080 based on a cut down version of the exact same chip have to cost 1200 just a year prior.

Again, your argument boils down to "if the 4080s wasn''t released the 5080 would be a better card", even though performance and price would be the same. Obviously, your argument just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Gen on gen is 4080 vs 5080.

Same way with CPUs. Nobody compared the 9700x to the 7800x 3d, it wasn't it's replacement. It was the 7700x replacement. Or even better, why are you comparing the 4080 to the 3080? Let's compare it to 3090, or even better, the 3090ti. So the 4080 is a great card, much cheaper than the 3090ti and faster. Wow, right?

 

[AusWolf]

Fair enough to that

I do

But also I'll add that this is context dependant/an odd tangent. I'm not saying 4080S buyers should upgrade to a 5080, that would be daft. I'm not saying anyone should buy a whole new GPU for a 14% uplift, I'd very much advise them not to. My point here this time around that appears to be derailed is, the 5080 is on average 14% faster than a 4080S in TPU's test suite at 4k, not zero % faster. Someone coming from and older slower GPU would need to consider the price of all options locally, the features they want and so on. To someone gaining ~50%+ from what they're coming from, could face deciding between the two, and the delta would be relevant to them, as they don't perform identically.

Speaking of price, that's another reason why I wouldn't buy a 5080 right now. When a company releases a cut-down GPU for $1200, then the full version of the same die for $200 less a year later, they lose all credibility regarding the justification of their prices in my eyes. I'm pretty sure lots of GB202 and 203 chips are being held back for the Super cards coming next year, hence the "shortage".

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Fair enough to that

I do

But also I'll add that this is context dependant/an odd tangent. I'm not saying 4080S buyers should upgrade to a 5080, that would be daft. I'm not saying anyone should buy a whole new GPU for a 14% uplift, I'd very much advise them not to. My point here this time around that appears to be derailed is, the 5080 is on average 14% faster than a 4080S in TPU's test suite at 4k, not zero % faster. Someone coming from and older slower GPU would need to consider the price of all options locally, the features they want and so on. To someone gaining ~50%+ from what they're coming from, could face deciding between the two, and the delta would be relevant to them, as they don't perform identically.

That being said This card isn't meant for 4080 users it's squarely aimed at you 3080 buyers.

The crappy thing is you could have gotten most of that performance increase 1-2 years ago......

 

[AusWolf]

Again, your argument boils down to "if the 4080s wasn''t released the 5080 would be a better card", even though performance and price would be the same. Obviously, your argument just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Gen on gen is 4080 vs 5080.

I'm selecting the card at the same price, not the one with the same model name. I don't care if it's called the Potato 9000 FX, if it's made of the last gen architecture, and costs $1000 just like the 5080, then that's the predecessor. Every other comparison is distorting your perception. So to me, your argument doesn't make sense.

Same way with CPUs. Nobody compared the 9700x to the 7800x 3d, it wasn't it's replacement. It was the 7700x replacement. Or even better, why are you comparing the 4080 to the 3080? Let's compare it to 3090, or even better, the 3090ti. So the 4080 is a great card, much cheaper than the 3090ti and faster. Wow, right?

X3D is an entirely different animal, so that's the wrong analogy. And if it's a 30 vs 40-series comparison, why couldn't I compare to the entire product stack? Why would I have to cherry pick the one with the similar product name?

 

[JustBenching]

I'm selecting the card at the same price, not the one with the same model name. I don't care if it's called the Potato 9000 FX, if it's made of the last gen architecture, and costs $1000 just like the 5080, then that's the predecessor. Every other comparison is distorting your perception. So to me, your argument doesn't make sense.


X3D is an entirely different animal, so that's the wrong analogy. And if it's a 30 vs 40-series comparison, why couldn't I compare to the entire product stack? Why would I have to cherry pick the one with the similar product name?

I feel like people pick whatever makes nvidia look worse to make their comparison. See last gen with the 4080, nobody compared it to the 3090.

Super is an entirely different animal as well, it's based on all the perfect dies that accumulate over time.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I feel like people pick whatever makes nvidia look worse to make their comparison. See last gen with the 4080, nobody compared it to the 3090.

Super is an entirely different animal as well, it's based on all the perfect dies that accumulate over time.

Anyone who skipped the 4080 for the 5080 saved themselves a Caramel latte once a month at Starbucks for 15%....There fixed it for you.... nevermind that most are paying the full 1200 or more for it....

 

[AusWolf]

I feel like people pick whatever makes nvidia look worse to make their comparison. See last gen with the 4080, nobody compared it to the 3090.

Super is an entirely different animal as well, it's based on all the perfect dies that accumulate over time.

Super is not a different animal. It's the same architecture with zero changes. It has more cores (and not always perfect dies), and that's it. In fact, the 4080S was the only Super card in the entire 40-series that was built around a full die.

I'm not picking what makes Nvidia look bad. I'm picking the product that made more sense to buy. The 4080 was bad value to begin with, so why on earth would I compare anything against it when the 4080S exists? With your logic, I may as well compare against the 6500 XT at MSRP and conclude that every GPU on earth is an amazing purchase.

Now tell me why the 4080 had to cost $1200 if the Super could give you the full die for $200 less.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Super is not a different animal. It's the same architecture with zero changes. It has more cores (and not always perfect dies), and that's it. In fact, the 4080S was the only Super card in the entire 40-series that was built around a full die.

I'm not picking what makes Nvidia look bad. I'm picking the product that made more sense to buy. The 4080 was bad value to begin with, so why on earth would I compare anything against it when the 4080S exists? With your logic, I may as well compare against the 6500 XT at MSRP and conclude that every GPU on earth is an amazing purchase.

Even if you compare it to the 4080 it isn't that favorable considering it came 26 months later... It's also cut down more historically than I believe every 70 class gpu.....

 

[JustBenching]

Even if you compare it to the 4080 it isn't that favorable considering it came 26 months later... It's also cut down more historically than I believe every 70 class gpu.....

What's sad about the 4080 being a 70 class gpu is that the freaking competition is losing to it. A 1k$ amd gpu gets rekt in rt and just matches in raster an xx70.... Need we say more?

Super is not a different animal. It's the same architecture with zero changes. It has more cores (and not always perfect dies), and that's it. In fact, the 4080S was the only Super card in the entire 40-series that was built around a full die.

I'm not picking what makes Nvidia look bad. I'm picking the product that made more sense to buy. The 4080 was bad value to begin with, so why on earth would I compare anything against it when the 4080S exists? With your logic, I may as well compare against the 6500 XT at MSRP and conclude that every GPU on earth is an amazing purchase.

Now tell me why the 4080 had to cost $1200 if the Super could give you the full die for $200 less.

The 3d isn't a different animal either. It has the same architecture with zero changes, it just has more cache just like the super has more cores.

The 3090 was a bad value to buy as well, so what, shouldnt we compare the 4090 to the 3090? Just because a card has bad value doesn't mean you'll skip it if you are trying to make a gen on gen comparison.

Plus, what makes the 4080 a bad value? I think it was great, I'm comparing it to the 3090ti, it was wayyy cheaper and faster.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

What's sad about the 4080 being a 70 class gpu is that the freaking competition is losing to it. A 1k$ amd gpu gets rekt in rt and just matches in raster an xx70.... Need we say more?

The competition sucks honestly and while I don't really care what they call each gpu it is interesting how much Nvidia has cut it down this year just to have people go bananas for it.

I mean hopefully the 9070Xt doesn't suck but Nvidia whole stack us going to be out at this point before we even know how fast it is and what it cost with how it's going.

 

[JustBenching]

The competition sucks honestly and while I don't really care what they call each gpu it is interesting how much Nvidia has cut it down this year just to have people go bananas for it.

That's the main problem I have, I cannot in good conscience talk crap about nvidia and their cut down dies when the competion fails to compete against an xx60 tier card (called a 5080). That's like complaining that the fastest car on the planet isn't as fast as id like. I feel it makes much more sense to complain about everyone else that can't even match that

 

[oxrufiioxo]

That's the main problem I have, I cannot in good conscience talk crap about nvidia and their cut down dies when the competion fails to compete against an xx60 tier card (called a 5080). That's like complaining that the fastest car on the planet isn't as fast as id like. I feel it makes much more sense to complain about everyone else that can't even match that

Honestly until AMD actually competes consistently I act like they don't exist and just compare what I could have bought from Nvidia before vs what I can buy from Nvidia now..

Nvidia actually does the same and pretends like they don't exist...

I mean if people like their products good for them I honestly don't care for either company for different reasons.

I do occasionally like some of their sub 400 usd products...

There isn't anything wrong with the 5080 it's the most efficient gpu, it's the best card you can currently buy at 1000 if you can get it for 1000 I wouldn't pay $1 more, and it seems to oc fine. That doesn't change the fact that even if you account for the OC it's a weak generationional improvement and cut down vs the flagship more than any 80 class and even every 70 class I believe.

 

[AusWolf]

The 3d isn't a different animal either. It has the same architecture with zero changes, it just has more cache just like the super has more cores.

Not just more cache, but lower clock speed as well. It's made for an entirely different purpose in mind. You can't say the same about the 4080 and 4080S.

The 3090 was a bad value to buy as well, so what, shouldnt we compare the 4090 to the 3090? Just because a card has bad value doesn't mean you'll skip it if you are trying to make a gen on gen comparison.

Then why are you skipping a card that was actually a much better value? Why only compare to the worse one?

Plus, what makes the 4080 a bad value?

Because AMD gave you similar raster performance for $200 less.

That's the main problem I have, I cannot in good conscience talk crap about nvidia and their cut down dies when the competion fails to compete against an xx60 tier card (called a 5080). That's like complaining that the fastest car on the planet isn't as fast as id like. I feel it makes much more sense to complain about everyone else that can't even match that

Not having any competition (yet) doesn't justify what we see here.

 

[Ejziponken]

That being said This card isn't meant for 4080 users it's squarely aimed at you 3080 buyers.

The crappy thing is you could have gotten most of that performance increase 1-2 years ago......

I normally skip one generation because I feel the gain you get from just one is too small, especially now when the price is so high. I have a 3080 (12GB tho), and I can say that the 5080 is not something I'm excited to get because it still feels like I skipped just one generation. A very long one. Feels more like it's aimed at the 20x0 cardholders. XD

I'm thinking of getting the 5090 and just be done with it.. But it's overkill for me because I play at 1440p, and currently I have the 7800X3D. I do however plan to upgrade my CPU next, but not for a while. I plan to get like the last generation CPU on the AM5 platform.

The other alternative is to get the 5080 now and sell it if 6080 is better. But I mean I might as well just get the 5090 now, skip 6000 series because the 6080 wont beat the 5090 and might not even beat the 4090 if it gains as much as this generation did.