R700 Launch in for Wet-Weather, GTX 280 Slash Coming Up

[Megasty]

Eh, life is great isn't it. I remember when my monsterous 8800GTX started to die in new games. The 4870 & GTX280 are so damn fast compared to that thing & I hope that game developers don't get stupid & try to eat these cards soon too.

My 280 can do 725/1530/1300. Its completely game stable but I think it can go a bit higher. Not that it matters though, it can already max out everything except everyone's favorite POS anyway.

[sarcasm] I really don't care about the pricewar on the companies' side, they both deserve it. If the 280 drops even more, then that only means the 4870x2's launch price will soon after. They should just keep on dropping prices so these babies will be in everyone's range [/sarcasm]

 

[pentastar111]

kinda makes you wonder how expensive it really is for Nvidia doesnt it?

65nm G200 cores must be having a higher yield than originally thought, id say 90% of the usable dies are also fully functional, which would make sense as 65nm is mature by this point

EXACTLY!! It is appearing that they could've sold these for much cheaper right from the gate.... This price slashing proves it...nVidia is a big company..BUT it's not as big as Micro$oft, who can sell at a loss at first, then turn profit by shear volume of units sold (Was'nt it Stalin who said "Quantity has a quality all it's own"?)...X-box 360 anyone? Anyway, to say that nVidia's taking a loss on these cards is ridiculous...Nobody(or company) in their right mind can afford to take such a hit in the wallet unless their company is HUGE(see Micro$oft) or they've been OVERPRICING the products... nVidia could probably lower the price another $50 and STILL make decent profit...We've been getting gouged for some time now....Good to see it tapering down a bit..

 

[Ravenas]

Why, is it dogma that TPU's news should always be borrowed? Our news is based on facts, not sources. If facts come from a source, we acknowledge them as the source of the fact. Even if Fudzilla comes up with something and has pictures to back it, we cover it. Go to Newegg and see for yourself. If more than two brands are using the same low $440 price (no POS rebate whatsoever), then it has to be a standard price. As for GTX 280 Extreme, we already covered it days ago, dig through the news archive, see for yourself. Even that was based on facts and even other sites covered that.

Edit: added links.

I just think this type of posting isn't reporting news, rather it's your opinion on what could potentially occur in the very near future.

Shouldn't this be in an opinion forum, or a hardware forum for that matter? I just don't see why you didn't do that? Possibly because you wanted everyone to see your opinion

The only thing that should have been put in is article for me to actually consider it news is you posting the information on the price drops, and only that news. What you really did was post some links to the price drops (not an official announcement link) and then throw in your opinion on what could happen to the market from a direct result of these price drops.

Great price drops though, maybe now people will feel more tempted to by graphics cards in a time where people are reluctant to buy much of anything besides food and gas.

EDIT: Changed "is" to "isn't".

 

[candle_86]

not really most of Nvidia's money comes from

IGP
and Sub 100 dollar graphics

So right now Nvidia is still doing fairly well

 

[GPUCafe]

not really most of Nvidia's money comes from

IGP
and Sub 100 dollar graphics

So right now Nvidia is still doing fairly well

If by money you mean revenue then yes, most of their fat (50% margins) profits come from the high-end.

 

[candle_86]

yes revenue, look at it this way, they sell 1 million 6150 chipsets @ 20 dollar profit

or 100,000 GTX 280's @ 100 profit

Thats 20mil vs 1mil profit, and the numbers for low end are prolly bigger in both profit and and quanity sold than the highend. As long as Nvidia controls the lowend in this manner they win.

 

[dragonavenger]

F.

U.

D.

 

[GPUCafe]

yes revenue, look at it this way, they sell 1 million 6150 chipsets @ 20 dollar profit

or 100,000 GTX 280's @ 100 profit

Thats 20mil vs 1mil profit, and the numbers for low end are prolly bigger in both profit and and quanity sold than the highend. As long as Nvidia controls the lowend in this manner they win.

I dont think thats correct. Here's why:
1. 6150 Chipset doesnt have $20 profit, about $5-8.
2. 1,000,000 chipsets at that margin is $8million with a revenue of $40million.
3. 100,000 GT200 at $100 margin is $10million (not $1mil )with a revenue of $20million.

So they make more money ($2million) on the GT200 but generate more revenue ($20million) on the 6150. Remember this; low volume high profit, high volume low profit.

By slashing to these levels Nvidia isnt making much. They are doing that to help their partners (moving inventory) and at the same time stop bleeding their market share to AMD.

 

[pentastar111]

I dont think thats correct. Here's why:
1. 6150 Chipset doesnt have $20 profit, about $5-8.
2. 1,000,000 chipsets at that margin is $8million with a revenue of $40million.
3. 100,000 GT200 at $100 margin is $10million (not $1mil )with a revenue of $20million.

So they make more money ($2million) on the GT200 but generate more revenue ($20million) on the 6150. Remember this; low volume high profit, high volume low profit.

By slashing to these levels Nvidia isnt making much. They are doing that to help their partners (moving inventory) and at the same time stop bleeding their market share to AMD.

They definitely won't go broke.

 

[imperialreign]

They definitely won't go broke.

biggest reason why nVidia can afford the price slash - it takes AMD by the ballz

 

[GPUCafe]

They definitely won't go broke.

Definitely not.

biggest reason why nVidia can afford the price slash - it takes AMD by the ballz

Reason is they were in AMD's current position since 7800 series.

 

[Tatty_Two]

they will go a bunch higher than the my vanilla 280 does 717/1500/1280 up from 602/1296/1107.With a smaller die the new 280 should do 800 core. Even then I think the 4870x2 will beat a overclocked 280b by about 10 percent when the 4870x2 is overclocked. Judging by my card. Thats a total estimate on my part.

Well I just read a preview of tests between the GTX280 and the 4870x2 over at Xtreme systems and the R700 lost about a third of the benches (all were at 16xx and above) but won the two thirds by a fair margin but across the board was 20-25% faster but in some benches 40% faster, of course those were at stock speeds so it does seem that at stock the R700 would even beat an Extreme, of course previews are great but not always the complete answer, for the overclocker though, the decision may be more interesting but I cant help but think ATi will get the pricing more realistic.

 

[Tatty_Two]

lol "vanilla" being applied to a gtx280.

this will defiently make things interesting. especially being that while nvidia is in a better position to sell the gtx280 for a loss than amd is. they're not exactly faring too well themselves. both companies better watch themselves in the pricewar as intel has been biding it's time waiting to retake the gpu market.

I kinda liked the term vanilla, it reminds me of my old 6800.....things are getting way to complicated, especially where the green team are concerened ATM.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

I had a vanilla 6800,cost me £230

Lol at nvidia,its a bit dirty what they are doing,but theres no love in buisness i guess.

 

[Tatty_Two]

I had a vanilla 6800,cost me £230

Lol at nvidia,its a bit dirty what they are doing,but theres no love in buisness i guess.

Mine was a Leadtek, at the time my most expensive gfx card at about £170, and I thought that was bad!

 

[Rash-Un-Al]

Very interesting editorial…

I invite you to take the following into consideration:

• GTX 280/260 cards have additional clocking and driver optimization potential. However, 48xx cards do, as well (especially when future "unlocked" 4870 variants will result in dramatic core and mammoth DDR5 speed increases). So, the card revision argument, on both camps, is relatively moot… both possess relatively new architectures with performance increases we can expect.

• When the 9800 GX2 arrived on the market, its price premium over the 3870 X2 didn't prevent GX2s from experiencing healthy sales (in spite of ATI lowering its prices on the 3870 X2). And, so far, the average performance advantage that the 4870 X2 holds over the GTX 280 (with preliminary silicon and drivers) is greater than the performance lead the GX2 initially had over the 3870 X2. Additionally, the price premium of R700 over the GTX 280 (even with slashed GTX 280 prices) will not amount to the price disparity which eventually existed between the GX2s and 3870 X2.

Naturally, the R700 will cost more because it (is and) will be the absolute and outright performance leader… and, at launch, will hold that performance title at a lower price-point than the GX2s took advantage of for so long.

 

[vsary6968]

Hmmmmm..... GTX Extreme.......a 280 that clocks at 738 Mhz with shaders running 25+% faster..........now thats a fast card, by my reckoning that would make it around 25% faster overall than the current 280GTX vanilla, that would mean it would be a match for R700..........pure speculation as always of course before either has hit the shelves, but if you add to that NVidia's reputation at least for overclocking GPU's it is quite possible that this beast could be faster than R700.

al
What are you been smoking? You can share some for me,too.The GTX 280 not that much faster than the HD4870 in overall. Even you overclock it to 738Mhz with shaders running 25% faster, Could not even match the R700. The only that they can beat the R700 is to make dual GTX280.I can give you the new name for the GTX 280 is GX2 280. And this will not appear until 2H 2009.By that time the new generation of R700 for ATI will appear on the market and this one will be the killer machine.And this one will build from a 2x R700 on a single pcb and will be the new design card with single 512 bit.

GTX 280 is 1GB single card. RV770 4870 is 512mb and R700 is 2X RV770 stick together on a single pcb.So the R700 is 512mb + 512mb = 1GB .Eventhough the R700 is a dual chip it only a 512mb X2. When you add it up it is the same as 1GB as the GTX 280. Only is ATI will come with the 2GB.

 

[Megasty]

al
What are you been smoking? You can share some for me,too.The GTX 280 not that much faster than the HD4870 in overall. Even you overclock it to 738Mhz with shaders running 25% faster, Could not even match the R700. The only that they can beat the R700 is to make dual GTX280.I can give you the new name for the GTX 280 is GX2 280. And this will not appear until 2H 2009.By that time the new generation of R700 for ATI will appear on the market and this one will be the killer machine.And this one will build from a 2x R700 on a single pcb and will be the new design card with single 512 bit.

GTX 280 is 1GB single card. RV770 4870 is 512mb and R700 is 2X RV770 stick together on a single pcb.So the R700 is 512mb + 512mb = 1GB .Eventhough the R700 is a dual chip it only a 512mb X2. When you add it up it is the same as 1GB as the GTX 280. Only is ATI will come with the 2GB.

You know, there are reasons that the 280 beats the 4870x2 in some benches. The main reason is that the drivers are what allows the 4870x2 to copy data over both GPU sets.
When the game doesn't support that then it will behave like one 4870. In that case, the benches show that the 4870 & 4870x2 perform relatively the same.
All the newer game that came out over the past 6 months or so support both SLI & CF.
You won't have that problem now unless the game designers start having massive hangovers on the job.
Also, the 4870x2 is a 2gb card (2x1gb). Some of the ES's were 1gb (1x512mb) which were either a fluke or AMD was trying to test that version of the card as well.
But the launch card will be 2gb of GDDR5. AMD is also going to make a 'super' RV770XT chip that can clock over 1GHz with proper cooling.
We might see a latter version of the 4870x2 that uses 2 of those chips.

 

[imperialreign]

You know, there are reasons that the 280 beats the 4870x2 in some benches. The main reason is that the drivers are what allows the 4870x2 to copy data over both GPU sets.
When the game doesn't support that then it will behave like one 4870. In that case, the benches show that the 4870 & 4870x2 perform relatively the same.
All the newer game that came out over the past 6 months or so support both SLI & CF.
You won't have that problem now unless the game designers start having massive hangovers on the job.
Also, the 4870x2 is a 2gb card (2x1gb). Some of the ES's were 1gb (1x512mb) which were either a fluke or AMD was trying to test that version of the card as well.
But the launch card will be 2gb of GDDR5. AMD is also going to make a 'super' RV770XT chip that can clock over 1GHz with proper cooling.
We might see a latter version of the 4870x2 that uses 2 of those chips.

correct me if I'm dead nutz wrong - but I thought with any Crossfire setup (dual or single-PCB), if there is no rendering profile for the game within the video drivers, the GPUs default to AFR. Meaning that you'd still see a benefit over single GPU with two GPUs in a game with no profile - just not anywhere near as much as you would with a game that has been profiled.

ATI drivers don't allow for hard setting MGPU rendering styles like nVidia does, but ATI's will determine as best they can the best style for of MGPU rendering method.

 

[powerwolf]

My cousin bought a 2900XT on launch day then replaced it with a GTX Z80 280 on its launch day. He is cursed, I tell you.

We point and laugh at him.

 

[AsRock]

I pm'ed you you about this price drop earlier this morning.. Anyways thats tightening the nuts on ATI for sure. BUT as i have said all ways i'd buy of ATI and not NV as i don't support companys that rip you off till they have to drop there price.

Wounder how much there making per card at those prices if they are making any that is. Maybe there just getting rid asap till they can make a better GPU.

 

[1c3d0g]

Don't forget, there's the rumored 55nm shrink of the G200's (G200b IINM) coming in the September/October timeframe. Still, at only $440 for the GTX280 makes it VERY tempting to buy...can you imagine the amount of work you could do in Folding@Home (GPU client)? Gheeezzz...

 

[Megasty]

correct me if I'm dead nutz wrong - but I thought with any Crossfire setup (dual or single-PCB), if there is no rendering profile for the game within the video drivers, the GPUs default to AFR. Meaning that you'd still see a benefit over single GPU with two GPUs in a game with no profile - just not anywhere near as much as you would with a game that has been profiled.

ATI drivers don't allow for hard setting MGPU rendering styles like nVidia does, but ATI's will determine as best they can the best style for of MGPU rendering method.

I was referring to the game profiles that are updated through driver releases. The default AFR on the 3870x2 only gave about a 0-5 fps increase over the 3870
That's why its an incredible thing that AMD can still release updated drivers each month for these dual cards even when there are an influx of new games for that month.

However, there are games that naturally support the AFR in the coding (Assassin's Creed). Those games will have improvements that nearly match the game profiles itself.
I just wish more developers will do that, even though most of them are now doing it in secret anyway

 

[tkpenalty]

AMD is probably yelling:

"no...NO... NO!!!! NOT AGAIN!!!!!"


Nvidia is just... taking losses just to kill AMD. Very dirty and I think thats something that may land them up with a lawsuit on their hands.


EDIT: You guys just have to remember that the 4850 are selling like hotcakes everywhere. The GTX280/260s aren't really that popular anyway. In australia none of the 9800GTX pricecuts have come into effect while the 4850's have.

 

[hv43082]

OK does this mean I should return my hd4850 and hang on to the 8800GTX until the dust settle before upgrading?