The 4870 "2D Low", GPU voltage/Memory clock rate Bios Thread

[Fastmix]

I am running Vista 32 and have had the issue both with 8.7 and 8.8 beta which I am currently using.

 

[nafets]

Great info so far
However, have we come to a consensus of what beta bios people can use that offers:
1.083 GPUv Idle
1.263 GPUv Load
2D memory clock rate without any flickering
etc

That is so far stable??

Well the all-in-one BIOS we're striving for is about 75% there. Fastmix made available an HD4870 BIOS with modified lowered 2D IDLE voltage and improved fan profile, in this previous post.

But there still is no way to include lowered memory clocks in 2D IDLE, because you will get flickering no matter what the speed. Maybe this will change with Catalyst 8.8, which should be here soon. Cross your fingers...

 

[LuxZg]

I agree, I think we have everything solved through that low-volt bios that had been posted, just lacking lower 2D memory clocks without flickers :/

I too hope that ATI will make the same thing to 4870 cards it did with 4870X2 - just disable that "load sensing" and do it through drivers (Cat 8.8 hopefully).

I haven't yet seen any new BIOS floating around, so waiting is upon us..

Untill than, low powered BIOS plus Ati tray tools

Btw, I've got a hold of multimeter, and just waiting for a call from a friend with power meter and IR thermometer, than i'll give you more measurments and answers to the question "which exact voltage is lowest"

 

[Fastmix]

LuxZg..Where did you read about the "load sensing" in the 4870x2, because looking at the bios from the new cards, there are changes made to the bios as well is not just software.

So unless they have redisigned the card and correct the malfunction, there is hope in a bios fix update and if drivers have a part on this..only time will tell.

Good discussion though.

 

[nafets]

LuxZg is talking about the information provided in the power consumption section of the TechPowerUp review of the HD4870 X2. Here's my take on the differences (Take my wording and terminology with a grain of salt).

HD4850/HD4870: The RV770 GPU is continually monitoring usage and applies GPU/MEM and voltages settings set in the BIOS, whenever the load on it reaches a certain point. BIOS states are intermixed with 2D/3DLP/3DHP sharing a "template". In this case, a template holds three states, each state set for 2D, 3DLP, and 3DHP. The card is frequently switched between these states in the "template" without delay.

HD4870 X2: Based on what current function (2D/3DLP/3DHP) is asked of the RV770 GPU, PowerPlay applies the appropriate GPU/MEM and voltage setting, set in the BIOS. BIOS states are not intermixed as 2D, 3DLP, and 3DHP each have their own "template". In this case, a template holds three states, with all three states being set exactly the same. Usage of the necessary "template" is governed by the drivers which now act in an "on or off" manner, rather than the previous "% of load" manner.

Extremely basic example:

HD4850/HD4870: RV770 GPU sees a little bit of 3D usage (opening a window), and quickly jumps to 3DLP/HP BIOS state, reverting back to 2D BIOS state when usage drops back down.

HD4870 X2: PowerPlay sees a little bit of 3D usage (opening a window), and does not move to 3DLP/HP BIOS state.

It's awfully confusing, but it works somewhat how I explained above...

I'm betting that someone can word or explain it better. I can be quite terrible at these things.

It's possible that ATI could use the HD4870 X2 manner of 2D/3D detection for the HD4850/HD4870, but then either 2 things would need to happen;

1. ATI and or the video card manufacturers would have to get end users to update their BIOSes. Highly unlikely.
2. The Catalyst drivers would bypass BIOS settings, and would have to assign the proper 2D/3DLP/3DHP GPU/MEM clocks and voltages that ATI deems appropriate for the whole stretch of HD4800 series cards. This seems more likely.

Hopefully we'll find out soon enough, with Catalyst 8.8 nearing availability...

 

[busta_dude]

@nafets

Can u please gimme ur saving power bios? I'm using Sapphire HD4870.

 

[nafets]

I'm not using a power saving BIOS. I'm utilizing the Stock2.bin BIOS I listed in my post, and use ATT Beta with customized 2D (160/225 @ 1.083v) and 3DHP (800/1000 @ 1.263v) clocks. They are configured to properly apply when necessary.

If you need a BIOS that's a good bit better than what comes stock with most HD4870's and aren't using a third-party program to controls your GPU/MEM clocks and voltages, you can download the one Fastmix has made available in a previous post, by clicking here.

 

[LuxZg]

Fastmix - nafets pretty much told it all, I was thinking about that change in 4870X2 cards

About what nafets said, I believe it can be said much simpler, IF I understood TPU article right..

4850/4870 cards have what they've called "load sensing". And when it "feels" the load increases to like 10% (which is easy with a lot of window movements, especialy in Vista) they switch to higher profile.

4870X2 has this sensing DISABLED, so the card doesn't know if the load is high, low, no load or whatever in between. It relies on information it gets from driver, and driver is doing pretty much same thing that Ati tray tools does - it detects when a 3D-full screen app starts, and tels the card "hey! we have high load comming, switch profile!".

So that is it, at least as much as I've understood it.
Ofcourse, if correct, it should be easily changed by BIOS and driver update like Fastmix said, after all, they just have to ERASE that part of BIOS which does the sensing, and use driver to do it through similar means like ATT or Ati CCC/Overdrive do it by changing clocks.

You get just one flicker, when going from 2D to fullscreen 3D, which you won't notice since most of the times you get some kind of blank screen when games start anyway.. And same one flicker when going back to 2D.

EDIT (19.8.2008): Ok, was just playing some videos, and remembered you guys asked about it. Actualy EastCoast had it in first post..
I don't have any HDDVD/BlueRay movies, or ROM device.. But testing it on WMV (HD sample from Sky HD website) and on a few avi's (DivX/XviD) it's all fine. Haven't touched voltage yet, but it plays on 160core/250mem clocks. I should probably get me some other sample, you guys just tell me what.. If there is some place with VC-1 and/or H264 encoded files to do the quick test, please post URL (maybe something like SkyHD, don't know.. maybe warner Bros or MSNBC or whatever ) Same goes for any other format you'd like to see running fine on either low clocks or low clocks AND low voltage. I'll be flashing my card tomorrow finaly

EDIT2 (20.8.2008): Well, I got my IR thermometer, multimeter, and power meter.. Will be posting temperatures, consumption and real volts today and tomorrow. I'll be posting as I measure..

OK, here are the initial results, with stock bios only, stock cooler, only fan/clock changes either through overdrive or ATT (for lowest clocks).

That's 47W lower idle than with stock bios/cooler/fan settings just by taking Ati tray tools and lowering clocks and setting fans to hover around 24-28%
You can find more info over here, so I don't double-post all infos. On the other hand, tomorrow I'll flash with low-volt bios, and you'll get more info in THIS thread, and I'll just link it in the other thread
P.S. Also, more pictures over here: http://photobucket.com/HD4870

EDIT3 (20.8.2008-2h later):
Here, a picture with added low-volt 1,083V at same settings as before
Also made measurments for other voltages, but only voltages, nothing else..
See new picture:

also, after a while now, my GPU temps are 47,5/44,5/48 and VRMS 44/44/44 .. I've closed my case (has big fan btw) in the meantime, and also it's 22:40 so night fell and temps decreased as well.. Should be great for someone with air conditioner in their room, they'll be able to run it on 20% fans or less..

EDIT (22.8.2008): Yesterday I've skipped on measurements, cos new Cat 8.8 was out, and I've tried that one a bit..
Btw, check this post - new 4870 BIOS with higher volts? Maybe both high and low, can't test (at work)..

 

[EastCoasthandle]

Info for everyone!

LINK TO THE POST with some new BIOS from ATi, with some interesting stuff in it. I'm at work so can't test it, but read the post text and it will sound interesting. Specialy if this is really from ATI and not from Diamond (guy did say ATI explicitly, so should be official).

It has unlocked CCC overdrive, and seems they did something to voltages as well. You'll get exe file that auto-flashes the card, but you can extract it (I've done it with PowerArchiver, but probably WinRAR will work too), and you'll get the files. "4870-128Kb512MBOC795-1100MHz.sb" can be opened in RBE no problem and shows this:
BIOS DATE: 08/13/08 13:01
VERSION: 113-BA0701-100
ATOMBIOS VERSION: ATOMBIOSBK-ATI VER011.003.000.001.029254
500/1100/1,276V 2D
795/1100/1,276V 3D

Note - higher voltage! As soon as I get home I'll flash it, try it, and see if it really ups the volts, and if you can use lower volts as well.

Also, 990/1250 is upper OC limit in CCC.

This should be official ATI driver for boards based on reference design, so start flashing ppl!

Btw, I have posted or will be posting this in other threads too, as it is VERY interesting info, and I guess as many people know about it and test it - the better

Cya all!

edit: this is for 4870 cards, just for the record

Did a quick run-through with this BIOS. Voltage range listed in ATI OverDrive is 1.237v - 1.276v (1.237v, 1.250v, 1.263v, 1.276v). Since the BIOS is a modified -100 version, it's locked in at 1.276v, and any other voltage setting is nonresponsive (see below). Odd that they (ATI/Diamond) didn't use a -105 variant.

Power consumption and Amps in Gpu-Z @ 500/1100 with ATI/Diamond -100 BIOS

ATT  set VOLTAGE  |  Power Consumption  |  Gpu-Z VDDC Current
1.237 (-0.039v)       145W                  31.2A
1.250 (-0.026v)       145W                  31.2A
[b]1.263 (-0.013v)       145W                  31.2A[/b]
1.276 (Default)       145W                  31.2A

Power consumption and Amps in Gpu-Z @ 500/1100 with Stock -105 BIOS

ATT  set VOLTAGE  |  Power Consumption  |  Gpu-Z VDDC Current
[b]1.263 (Default)       142W                  29.1A[/b]

So the new ATI/Diamond -100 BIOS does increase the maximum voltage allowable for the HD4870. This most likely leads to increased stability when running GPU/MEM speeds higher than defaults, which is great for overclockers.

The choice of using a -100 BIOS means that it will always run at 1.276v, with no undervolting, rendering the voltage range useless. But most overclockers won't care about this.

There's also the increased ATI CCC overclock limit, which LuxZg mentioned, but I didn't test this nor does it apply to me specifically, as I don't use CCC. But for others that do and are overclocking, it's also a great improvement.

Good stuff...

good info

 

[Sasqui]

nafets - wow. Talk about thorough - thank you. Too bad 8.8 didn't solve implement the 2xxx or 3xxx type demand load switching (or so it seems). I just removed my old 2900Pro and installed my new 4870 last night, and installed 8.8. I was horrified to see a 35w jump in idle load on my Kill-A-Watt meter compared to the 2900!

And yes, the idle temps on stock are scary - 71c

I'm going to digest some more of your stuff tonight and decide if I want to start messing around. But at least now I have a good explaination thanks to your work.

As a habit, my entire system is shut off when I'm not using it. With the monitor and sound system, it's drawing 410w idle, and ~445w load. Before with the 2900 it was around 360/430.

 

[LuxZg]

Ok, I'll be lazy and do what Eastcoast did for above two posts

Like nafets already tested..
By flashing this bios you really do get more juice, even if by a small ammount. Earlier under load I've measured 1,307-1,312 V
(overclocked to 790/1100) and now I get 1,331-1,334 V on 795/1100.. so this is 0,02V more. And no it's not cos of additional 5 MHz, since even 50MHz hardly pushed it for 0,002V

Other than this, I've tried if this BIOS allows lowering voltages, but as much as I've tested - nothing happens. I've tried by new Ati tray tools, by RBE low voltage tweak, by entering values manualy in bios - nothing helped.

I did NOT try rising voltage in BIOS, but with ATT it apparently doesn't move. I believe this BIOS has same voltage-changing limitations that the reference one had, only now it's fixed to 1,276V instead of earlier 1,263V. You can try it yourselves, and good luck

I'll keep playing with the low-volt BIOS cos I'm mostly limited by the CPU anyway...

What we can expect now, is that someone will compare original BIOS and this one, and maybe will figure out WHICH bits exactly change voltages either to higher or lower values.. I hope RBE will be able to do it in a release or two

I'll post relevant infos back in low 2D thread as well, this was just for those that are interested mostly in overclocking..

@Sasqui - use BIOS files and tweaks we've posted here, and you'll be back to 2900 idle watts

 

[LuxZg]

My currently best result, 6,8A and 108W in 2D.. minimum W is around 105W but mostly it's closer to 108W..not that it matters much Lowering memory or clocks lower doesn't get me anything either in amps or watts or temperatures, so I've left it at this.



Used only ATT latest beta and RBE 1.13 to mod my original BIOS.

Looks like that's it for me for now, I wanted to mount Accelero S1 next, but didn't have small enough screwdriver to unscrew those last 4 screwes holding GPU heatsink I guess I'll have to wait till I get one, I'm so sad right now..so close to the goal, but can't do it

 

[Sasqui]

@Sasqui - use BIOS files and tweaks we've posted here, and you'll be back to 2900 idle watts

I was just messing with the Cat 8.8 CCC profile XML file and see a section that looks like it controls the GPU & memory, clocks and voltages:

<Property name="OverclockEnabledProperty" value="True" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="CoreClockTarget_0">
<Property name="Want_0" value="50000" />
<Property name="Want_1" value="50000" />
<Property name="Want_2" value="75000" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="MemoryClockTarget_0">
<Property name="Want_0" value="90000" />
<Property name="Want_1" value="90000" />
<Property name="Want_2" value="90000" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="CoreVoltageTarget_0">
<Property name="Want_0" value="1263" />
<Property name="Want_1" value="1263" />
<Property name="Want_2" value="1263" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="MemoryVoltageTarget_0">
<Property name="Want_0" value="0" />
<Property name="Want_1" value="0" />
<Property name="Want_2" value="0" />
</Feature>


Wonder if messing with these will have the same effect... also wondering why the targets for memory are all "0". Pardon my "noobness" on the topic.

 

[LuxZg]

This is VERY old news Sasqui.. I'd rather recommend you to go here and get to know new ATT beta, which enables you to do all the tweaking you need, with much less problems.

And read nafets post on the start of this thread, that will get you a real good start.

 

[Sasqui]

This is VERY old news Sasqui.. I'd rather recommend you to go here and get to know new ATT beta, which enables you to do all the tweaking you need, with much less problems.

And read nafets post on the start of this thread, that will get you a real good start.

Oh I wasn't suggesting this was new news! Good 'ole tray tools Thx. Got my fan running at 65%, man it's loud but I'm down to 38c.

 

[Fastmix]

My currently best result, 6,8A and 108W in 2D.. minimum W is around 105W but mostly it's closer to 108W..not that it matters much Lowering memory or clocks lower doesn't get me anything either in amps or watts or temperatures, so I've left it at this.

Hey LuxZg..how did you get 6,8A with 160/250, mine does that @ 160/225 if I moved to 160/250 I get 7,5A.

Just a little thing that I have noticed.

 

[VuurVOS]

Oh I wasn't suggesting this was new news! Good 'ole tray tools Thx. Got my fan running at 65%, man it's loud but I'm down to 38c.

Lower the RAM 2D clocks with ATT to 200mhz so you dont need so high fan speed to cool it down.

Hey LuxZg..how did you get 6,8A with 160/250, mine does that @ 160/225 if I moved to 160/250 I get 7,5A.

Just a little thing that I have noticed.

I get the same thing as LuxZg only with little lower ram clocks and much higher gpu clocks.

 

[prelaki]

Bios flash newbie with different bios settings

First of all, thanks for the clear opening and for expaining all the posibilities.
I am a newbie to Grafic card flashing (but flashed everything else).

I bought a pre-overclocked Club 3D 4870 hoping it would just work very well.
However the rediculous fan-settings (alternating full on, full off) made me search for better alternatives which led me here.

Maybe I can contribute something, my card uses different settings and a different bios then the one mentioned in the first post, I have attached it.

 

[eidairaman1]

this should be a tagged thread, like the voltmods etc.

 

[Fastmix]

I get the same thing as LuxZg only with little lower ram clocks and much higher gpu clocks.

You are right VuurVOS....500/200/1.083 gives me 6.8A, I will use this as my default 2d.

Thanks

Actually 550/200/1.083 gives me 6.8A too so I will settle for that.

 

[LuxZg]

Well, ok, not much news on low-volt fronts, but wanted to say I've finaly got Accelero S1 on my card, and after several changes, and a LOT of problems with mounting, heatsinks moving and falling off, etc etc, I've settled back with red plate from original cooler (as a heatsink for memory/VRMs) and dual 120mm fans, one is HiperFlow and other is Spire.. Spire one wasn't ment to be kept on a card, but I had to keep it cos under load my temps were terrible with low rpm/CFM fans like Hiper and Glacialtech Silent Blade..

Now I have 38C GPU in idle (38/35/37) and that's after full load, and cooling just for a minute or two at most. VRMs are at 40C. When I boot, and leave in 2D I have 36/33/35C GPU and 37/37/37C VRMs

Under load I don't get much better temps than I had with stock cooler and higher fan speed (like 60%) - if I overclock.. But I did notice that if I DON'T overclock GPU or memory I get pretty nice temps and not very noisy (more like silent compared to 60% fans ) computer.. To be exact 63/73/62 GPU & 73C VRMs with S1 while I had 68/72/70 GPU & 76C VRMs with stock cooler and 60% fans :-O EDIT: Oh, and since I get only like 2 fps from 800/1100 I'll be keeping my stock clocks from now on It's just not worth the extra 10-15C and 30-35W consumption.. not to mention giving a hard time to my card

Anyway, now I just have to figure out how to solve the 2D/3D memory flickering.. and I'll do it even if I'll have to be mailing ATI/AMD 10x every day

 

[Sasqui]

It's amazing, but the sensitivity of the load switching to the "3D" clock mode seems too much. I have CCC open, and the "Current Clock Settings" show 500Mhz

All I have to do is start moving some windows around (all 2D) and it immediately jumps to 750Mhz, that with a 20-35w jump in power consumption. Set sill for a moment and it drops back to 500Mhz.

I can even make it happen by scrolling quickly in a broswer window.

"Idle" power draw aside... & without going back and reading all the info, is there some way to control the "threshold" where it jumps to the higher clocks?

 

[Fastmix]

The only workaround that we have found so far...is to use ATT autooverclocking, enable 2d/3d.

 

[Sasqui]

I'll give it a whirl. I have a polluted machine atm, I think a audio driver conflict with the SB live and the HD audio. Hard to try much till I get a clean install - which I don't have much time to do ATM (I own a good size, *old* house. projects, projects, projects). Winter is coming,... so OC'ing, woohoo!!!

 

[azazyl]

Hi. Im new here.This is my first post. I recently bought a Gigabyte 4870 and i flashed it with Fastmix's bios. The temps dropped from 79c to 52c, but from GPUZ i see that the VDDC is still 1.2625v and not 1.083. Why is that? Do i need to reflash my bios?