AMD Zen 4 Reportedly Features a 29% IPC Boost Over Zen 3

[lexluthermiester]

Name one.

Booting and running the OS...

 

[trickson]

I just can't get enough of the Ryzen CPU's!
I have 2 first gen Ryzens and one 3rd gen.
Hope to add a 4th gen CPU soon!
LOVE YOU AMD!

 

[r9]

I just can't get enough of the Ryzen CPU's!
I have 2 first gen Ryzens and one 3rd gen.
Hope to add a 4th gen CPU soon!
LOVE YOU AMD!

Everything you say will be hold against you in the future AMD vs Intel thread.
On that note ...

 

[Dredi]

Booting and running the OS...

And how many percent faster does threadripper boot compared to ryzen? My guess would be around 0%, but I guess you have more info about your claim.

 

[lexluthermiester]

And how many percent faster does threadripper boot compared to ryzen? My guess would be around 0%, but I guess you have more info about your claim.

Was being a smart-ass. I do that when people make comments like the one you made. I'm not going to take time out of my day to give a lengthy explanation when such an effort would be a waste on the intended audience. Put short, if you do not already understand the benefit of extra memory channels to improve system performance then you need to do some research and reading. I'm not doing it for you.

 

[Deleted member 205776]

All that I hope for is Intel making actually good CPUs for once, so my Zen 5 chips are cheaper when I do eventually upgrade from my 3900X

 

[lexluthermiester]

All that I hope for is Intel making actually good CPUs for once, so my Zen 5 chips are cheaper when I do eventually upgrade from my 3900X

That 3900X is an excellent CPU, why would you need to upgrade?

 

[Deleted member 205776]

That 3900X is an excellent CPU, why would you need to upgrade?

Well I don't consider a jump from Zen 2 to Zen 5 unreasonable. Upgrading to a 5900X would be. I also would prefer better single threaded perf

 

[InVasMani]

Was being a smart-ass. I do that when people make comments like the one you made. I'm not going to take time out of my day to give a lengthy explanation when such an effort would be a waste on the intended audience. Put short, if you do not already understand the benefit of extra memory channels to improve system performance then you need to do some research and reading. I'm not doing it for you.

Exactly hell part of the reason I want to switch to a modern quad channel DDR4 is to pair it with Primo Cache. Quad channel should be quite beneficial to it since it's a block level cache that utilizes memory capacity and bandwidth and it aids in speeding up NTFS compression performance. On a side note I wish I could install Windows 10 with NTFS 2048 byte size rather than the default 4K (4096byte) size. It's probably possible in some form perhaps, but Windows itself doesn't seem to allow doing so readily and easily. I don't know Windows 10 doesn't allow it though they allow 4K uncompressed and 2K compressed ends up at the same capacity because the compression ratio is 2:1 for NTFS.

 

[Dredi]

Was being a smart-ass. I do that when people make comments like the one you made. I'm not going to take time out of my day to give a lengthy explanation when such an effort would be a waste on the intended audience. Put short, if you do not already understand the benefit of extra memory channels to improve system performance then you need to do some research and reading. I'm not doing it for you.

Ok, so I guess it’s difficult to point out even one piece of software that benefits greatly from more memory channels and is typically run on basic PC hardware. For enthusiasts there are already platforms that have what you want and don’t cost that much extra.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Well I don't consider a jump from Zen 2 to Zen 5 unreasonable. Upgrading to a 5900X would be. I also would prefer better single threaded perf

Ah Zen5, I thought you meant Ryzen 5xxx. My bad.

Exactly hell part of the reason I want to switch to a modern quad channel DDR4 is to pair it with Primo Cache. Quad channel should be quite beneficial to it since it's a block level cache that utilizes memory capacity and bandwidth and it aids in speeding up NTFS compression performance.

Nice, good example for why expanding memory channels can be of benefit. There many others.

On a side note I wish I could install Windows 10 with NTFS 2048 byte size rather than the default 4K (4096byte) size. It's probably possible in some form perhaps, but Windows itself doesn't seem to allow doing so readily and easily.

It can be done and indeed my install has 1024byte sectors. I also only have one partition. The key is to create the partition with an external utility such as EaseUS or AOMEI. As long as the partition is properly built, you can force Windows to use it during install. Windows then takes all of the files that would otherwise have separate partitions and puts them into folders.

 

[Super XP]

Zen 3+ is expected to be AMD's first AM5 CPU design and should bring small IPC gains similar to the improvements from Zen to Zen+ in the range of 4% - 7%.

ZEN3+ should be on Socket AM4 just like ZEN to ZEN+ was on Socket AM4. It makes absolutely no sense to release a ZEN3 generation CPU on a new socket.
If the rumour claims ZEN3+ is on the mysterious Socket AM5, that rumour is incorrect.

How have we moved from "3-5% and you should be happy" every year, to the "if it offers less than 15% we are going to be disappointing"?

3-5% was an Intel problem.
Not AMD

Am I?

Not all Games and Programs will gain you equal Performance. Some perform better than others.

That 3900X is an excellent CPU, why would you need to upgrade?

Its an addiction for some it seems

 

[Vayra86]

29%.

Not 2.9%. Right? Or is my vision blurry

 

[InVasMani]

Ah Zen5, I thought you meant Ryzen 5xxx. My bad.
Nice, good example for why expanding memory channels can be of benefit. There many others.

It can be done and indeed my install has 1024byte sectors. I also only have one partition. The key is to create the partition with an external utility such as EaseUS or AOMEI. As long as the partition is properly built, you can force Windows to use it during install. Windows then takes all of the files that would otherwise have separate partitions and puts them into folders.

AOMEI ended up working well to move the reserve partition to the end of the NVME drive and was able to shrink the C:\ partition down in a size as well. Good enough to get over 400GB of NVME storage for Steam Games installs so as long as I don't install ARK on it quite a lot of games.

 

[SL2]

It makes absolutely no sense to release a ZEN3 generation CPU on a new socket.

It makes a lot more sense than making Bulldozer/Excavator CPU's for AM4 back in 2016, and yet that happened. Yeah, we could come up various explanations for this, but the same goes for Zen3(+) + DDR5.

New Process + new chiplets + new IO chip + new chip(sets) + new socket + new RAM standard + new PCIe standard, all in one generation? Now THAT doesn't make sense to me.

I'm not really longing for that.

 

[Super XP]

It makes a lot more sense than making Bulldozer/Excavator CPU's for AM4 back in 2016, and yet that happened. Yeah, we could come up various explanations for this, but the same goes for Zen3(+) + DDR5.

New Process + new chiplets + new IO chip + new chip(sets) + new socket + new RAM standard + new PCIe standard, all in one generation? Now THAT doesn't make sense to me.

I'm not really longing for that.

AMD already muddled the naming scheme with mixing up ZEN2 and ZEN3 under the Ryzen 5000U series. This was a mistake by AMD. And it seems they are doing it again by mixing up ZEN3 that is Socket AM4 with ZEN3+ that is now said to be Socket AM5.
How about keeping ZEN 3 anything onto AM4 and start fresh with ZEN4 AM5.

Like what they've done down below mixing up the naming schemes. They should keep ZEN2 away from Ryzen 5000 series, that belongs to Ryzen 4000. This mixing up only causes confusion. And consumers don't know what they are buying. If I seen a Ryzen 7 5700U I would automatically assume its based on the newer ZEN 3 Micro-Architecture. Any consumer that finds out its actually based on ZEN2 will most likely return it, as they should for the dishonesty.

This move comes from the Book of Intel. lol
Ryzen 7 5800U ZEN3 Cezanne
Ryzen 7 5700U ZEN2 Lucienne
Etc.,

 

[HenrySomeone]

ZEN3+ should be on Socket AM4 just like ZEN to ZEN+ was on Socket AM4. It makes absolutely no sense to release a ZEN3 generation CPU on a new socket.
If the rumour claims ZEN3+ is on the mysterious Socket AM5, that rumour is incorrect.

It makes quite a lot of sense if they don't want to be overly late with their own ddr5 & pcie5 platform, especially after being so vocal with "We're the first with pcie 4.0!!!"
Let me explain: Zen 4 is supposed to be on TSMC 5nm, which is a hot item right now (and will continue to be so for quite some time) and there are bigger fish after it, which means that they will only be able to secure a significant amount of wafers after at least some of those other ones (especially Apple) will (partly) move to 3nm and that would likely mean 2H 2021 at best for the launch. Now they could probably do it sooner, but with laughable stocks just like Zen 3 and they can't afford another fiasco like that (or at least they shouldn't, but then again, this is AMD after all... ). So, what do you do? You release a mid-generation on an "old" node with a new socket which should also help to reduce the amount of bugs that come with all new stuff (just like one poster above already mentioned); we know there are enough of them as it is already!
Oh and regarding the near 30% IPC uplift? God knows they'll need it against Alder Lake, especially after coming in (probably) 6 months late to the party!

 

[SL2]

God knows they'll need it against Alder Lake, especially after coming in (probably) 6 months late to the party!

6 months late to what? Intel's launch? I've never seen AMD (or Intel) trying to align their launches like that, mainly because they can't, and also because it's stupid and short sighted.
6 months sounds too long tho, I'd guess 3 - 4 months.

 

[Super XP]

h and regarding the near 30% IPC uplift? God knows they'll need it against Alder Lake, especially after coming in (probably) 6 months late to the party!

I like AMDs new ZEN strategy. In order to gain significant IPC increases, you need design overhauls versus just minor improvements.
That's what AMD has done since ZEN.
ZEN to ZEN+ Respectful IPC uplift
ZEN+ to ZEN 2 Significant IPC uplift
ZEN 2 to ZEN 3 Significant IPC uplift.
ZEN 3 to ZEN 4 Significant IPC uplift.

Had AMD not done this, ZEN would have died a horrible death already.

 

[KarymidoN]

wow that's amazing, i hope it's true, will totally blow intel out of the water

remember AMD promised 19% IPC increase on ZEN3 over ZEN2 and delivered that, so no reason to think they can't deliver it. i mean i wanna see it to believe cause ZEN3 is already so freaking powerful that is hard to believe they can squeeze more juice out of the ZEN architecture family... man what a bad time to be Intel.

 

[Super XP]

remember AMD promised 19% IPC increase on ZEN3 over ZEN2 and delivered that, so no reason to think they can't deliver it. i mean i wanna see it to believe cause ZEN3 is already so freaking powerful that is hard to believe they can squeeze more juice out of the ZEN architecture family... man what a bad time to be Intel.

Like ZEN 2 into ZEN 3, ZEN 3 is pretty much a substantial overhaul over ZEN 2. It's like AMD took what it has learned about all it's ZEN designs and couples the best features all together.

ZEN 4 is also a new design, heavily overhauled according to Dr. Lisa Su. That's the only way to gain such incredible IPC gains per release.
We've witnessed it from ZEN to ZEN2 and from ZEN2 to ZEN3. Absolutely no reason to think ZEN4 won't follow this pattern in IPC gains.

 

[KarymidoN]

Like ZEN 2 into ZEN 3, ZEN 3 is pretty much a substantial overhaul over ZEN 2. It's like AMD took what it has learned about all it's ZEN designs and couples the best features all together.

ZEN 4 is also a new design, heavily overhauled according to Dr. Lisa Su. That's the only way to gain such incredible IPC gains per release.
We've witnessed it from ZEN to ZEN2 and from ZEN2 to ZEN3. Absolutely no reason to think ZEN4 won't follow this pattern in IPC gains.

Yeah, it feels weird to me how the ZEN architecture is volatile for AMD, almost every 2 years it gets a complete overhaul and some really solid gains...

 

[Makaveli]

Yeah, it feels weird to me how the ZEN architecture is volatile for AMD, almost every 2 years it gets a complete overhaul and some really solid gains...

After listening to Jim Keller talk about architectures I don't think its volatile. Once you create the design there is always low hanging fruit you can improve on to get better performance until there is no more and you need a new arch.

That is Skylake the last 6 years which is now topped out and hence Rocket lake. Eventually Zen will get there and AMD will need a new arch.

 

[Super XP]

Yeah, it feels weird to me how the ZEN architecture is volatile for AMD, almost every 2 years it gets a complete overhaul and some really solid gains...

Not sure why you claim the ZEN Architecture is volatile? When AMD has been achieving Technological Advancements, squeezing more efficiency, power savings and speed out of ZEN.

No more are the days of the past where CPU generations would gain you 1-5% if you are lucky in IPC gains. AMD solves this issue by architectural improvements for each ZEN generational design. That isn't volatility lol, that is Technological Advancements. A perfect example is Intel's Skylake, AMD did everything to avoid such fate, Skylake offered up to 1-5% IPC gains per gen, which is miserable at best.

 

[quadibloc]

How have we moved from "3-5% and you should be happy" every year, to the "if it offers less than 15% we are going to be disappointing"?

AMD improved its processors by a large amount when they brought out the original Ryzen processors.
Intel, at the time, only needed to respond to Ryzen's new 8-core processors with a 6-core processor, though. But through the years following AMD's introduction of Ryzen, AMD has been pushing hard to improve its processors each year, and Intel had to take notice and match their pace as well.
That's how we moved: desktop processor performance has, due to AMD's resurgence, become an intensely competitive field.