AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D Has the CCD on Top of the 3D V-cache Die, Not Under it

[btarunr]

Much of the Ryzen 7 9800X3D teaser material from AMD had the recurring buzzwords "X3D Reimagined," causing us to speculate what it could be. 9550pro, a reliable source with hardware leaks, says that AMD has redesigned the way the CPU complex die (CCD) and 3D V-cache die (L3D) are stacked together. In past generations of X3D processors, such as the 5800X3D "Vermeer-X" and the 7800X3D "Raphael-X," the L3D is stacked on top of the CCD. It would stack above the central region of the CCD that has the on-die 32 MB L3 cache, while blocks of structural silicon would be placed on top of the edges of the CCD that have the CPU cores, with these structural silicon blocks performing the crucial task of transferring heat from the CPU cores to the IHS above. This is about to change.

If the leaks are right, AMD has inverted the CCD-L3D stack with the 9000X3D series such that the "Zen 5" CCD is now on top, the L3D is below it, under the central region of the CCD. The CPU cores now dissipate heat to the IHS as they do on regular 9000 series processors without the 3D V-cache technology. The way we imagine they achieved this is by enlarging the L3D to align with the size of the CCD, and serve as a kind of "base tile." The L3D would have to be peppered with TSVs that connect the CCD to the fiberglass substrate below. We know where AMD is going with this in the future. Right now, the L3D "base tile" contains the 64 MB 3D V-cache that gets appended to the 32 MB on-die L3 cache, but in the future (probably with "Zen 6"), AMD could design the CCDs with TSVs even for the per-core L2 caches.



This piece of speculation also perfectly explains what "X3D boost" could be. With the CCD making direct contact with the IHS the way it is in non-X3D processors, the X3D processors could have the same overclocking capabilities as the regular chips. There are much fewer thermal hurdles in the way, and AMD can go ahead and give these chips the same TDP and PPT values as regular chips, as well as higher clock speeds. The company used to be conservative with the PPT and clock speeds of its X3D processors in the past.

AMD is expected to launch the Ryzen 7 9800X3D on November 7, 2024.

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[dgianstefani]

Amazing

 

[R0H1T]

Really or is that sarcasm

 

[izy]

Interesting.

 

[DigitalDude]

I have a bad feeling that anything launched this year is going to be screwed!!

 

[Klemc]

My 7800x3d is laughing, ieard it !

 

[Chaitanya]

As long as they dont pop then it should be an interesting excercise.

 

[Geofrancis]

There was a good video on YouTube recently looking at zen5 die shots, and they were speculating that the cache would be radically different due to the way the chip was laid out and the lack of TSV on the top.

 

[Carillon]

I think this would cost more than normal x3d to manufacture

 

[Zareek]

As if 3D stacking wasn't complex enough, this sounds extra complicated. I wonder how it will affect pricing and availability. Will the price difference be worth the possible performance headroom? Maybe the 9000 series isn't as much of a let-down for gaming as we thought it may be. With 7800x3d already spanking the pants off, the Intel Core Ultra 200 series in gaming, I didn't see much of a reason for AMD to improve the 9000x3d series over its predecessor. Perhaps total domination is the new goal!

 

[dgianstefani]

There was a good video on YouTube recently looking at zen5 die shots, and they were speculating that the cache would be radically different due to the way the chip was laid out and the lack of TSV on the top.

Yes, I was wondering, besides die space savings, what those changes were made for. Quite radically different to Zen 4.

 

[beautyless]

Or they will really double up the 3D V-cache?

Link

 

[dont whant to set it"']

Game over.

 

[izy]

I think having the 3dVcache cache below was the way to go from the start, the limitations were pretty annoying with it on top but we have to see the results first, im still hopping for a a 12 core single die CPU with 3dvchase in the future, that would be amazing.

 

[jpvalverde85]

Great, now time to give some resources to the BIOS development so it doesnt look so half baked, as the hardware is sound so far. And it would be pretty if they put the NeoGeo boot music when the system shows the BIOS logo

 

[Rares]

Ryzen9xxxX3D +15% and even more...

 

[3DVCash]

Well, well well! Consider me very excited for the future of AM5 now.

If this really works as well as it sounds, they might as well discontinue the non-X3D line going forward.

 

[oiawshboiwsahnoidaws]

Wouldn't this increase latency? Or is going through TSV negligible latency-wise?
I guess the higher clockspeed could make up for it?

 

[Wirko]

It's Ɛᗡ Ʌ-cache now, if actually true.

If the memory size stays at 64 MB, but the physical size has some room to grow, AMD can make use of some older, cheaper, less capacity-constrained process (still from the 7nm family).

 

[Geofrancis]

Wouldn't this increase latency? Or is going through TSV negligible latency-wise?
I guess the higher clockspeed could make up for it?

all 3d chips use TSVs, the only change is the memory will be below the CPU not above it so the actual distance hasnt changed.

 

[oiawshboiwsahnoidaws]

I have little knowledge of recent amd stuff but wouldn't the cpu/ccd be slightly further away from IOD and memory this way?
Anyway just had that thought when reading ccd being on top

 

[Geofrancis]

It's Ɛᗡ Ʌ-cache now, if actually true.

If the memory size stays at 64 MB, but the physical size has some room to grow, AMD can make use of some older, cheaper, less capacity-constrained process (still from the 7nm family).

this will be interesting to see, its possible that we will see a much larger memory chip, 96 or 128mb would be a gaming monster.

 

[Psychoholic]

Nice, much easier to cool(The CCD) that way i'm thinking.
Probably why they will be able to clock it higher than previous X3D parts.

 

[dgianstefani]

Great, now time to give some resources to the BIOS development so it doesnt look so half baked, as the hardware is sound so far. And it would be pretty if they put the NeoGeo boot music when the system shows the BIOS logo

openSIL is coming eventually.

 

[usiname]

Wouldn't the CCD be even higher (close to the cooler because of the thinner lid) than standard non X3D CCD? So even better temperatures than the regular Ryzens