NVIDIA 2025 International CES Keynote: Liveblog

[oxrufiioxo]

Isn't the 9060 rumored to be an 8gb card? That will show them (nvidia ain't any better in this department, but at least they have a reason being stingy with vram)

I've seen 8 and I've seen 12... Lets hope 12 considering it should be 7700XT like performance... Rumors are all over the place with that.... The 5060 is even rumored to get 12GB via the 3GB GDDR7 chips and likely won't come out till they are avail but rumors are whatever.... We won't know till Nvidia/AMD shows them off.

 

[JustBenching]

Yeah MCM or not, even if they had a bigger chip, they should have also had RT performance laying on the shelf to go with it. Which they might not have after all; RDNA3 was supposed to perform better even regardless of MCM.

You know what i'd like to see from AMD? Instead of them trying to tackle EVERYTHING nvidia is good at at the same time, focus on one thing at the time. It's apparent that they can't simulatenously keep up with RT, keep up with FG, upscalers and raster performance at the same time. So, why not just, you know, make a product that's 25% faster in raster than the 5070 - price it aroundabout the same or less - and lessen the focus on RT and upscaling. At least that would be a good alternative for people who don't care about RT.

Lisa is magical on stage - imagine walking up there, announcing a 499$ 9070XT that smashes the crap out of the 5070. Instasold.

 

[Vayra86]

You know what i'd like to see from AMD? Instead of them trying to tackle EVERYTHING nvidia is good at at the same time, focus on one thing at the time. It's apparent that they can't simulatenously keep up with RT, keep up with FG, upscalers and raster performance at the same time. So, why not just, you know, make a product that's 25% faster in raster than the 5070 - price it aroundabout the same or less - and lessen the focus on RT and upscaling. At least that would be a good alternative for people who don't care about RT.

Lisa is magical on stage - imagine walking up there, announcing a 499$ 9070XT that smashes the crap out of the 5070. Instasold.

But that's what RDNA2 and 3 kinda did, except they still priced them too high or the time to market was too long. The 7800XT for example, if they had that at 499,- when Nvidia dropped Ada, the market share would have certainly looked different. Instead, they had an overpriced 7900XT with nothing below it, yeah, last-gen's power spiking 6800XT that was then going on deep sale (ahem...) still more expensive than 499,-, and old news.

They just utterly suck at timing and product placement, the products are fine really. I'm really happy with my 7900XT, disregarding the price.

AMD has another problem: they cannot NOT focus on featureset (RT/FSR) too, because its part of what keeps them in the console APU business, and nobody is going to tell gamers they cannot have RT on their favorite console, but they can on an Nvidia GPU on the PC playing the same games. Developers don't want that. And... they've had their sweet time by now, I mean...

FOUR years and 9 months (!) and still dead in the water. And this is the announcement. It was in the works for longer.

 

[remekra]

You know what i'd like to see from AMD? Instead of them trying to tackle EVERYTHING nvidia is good at at the same time, focus on one thing at the time. It's apparent that they can't simulatenously keep up with RT, keep up with FG, upscalers and raster performance at the same time. So, why not just, you know, make a product that's 25% faster in raster than the 5070 - price it aroundabout the same or less - and lessen the focus on RT and upscaling. At least that would be a good alternative for people who don't care about RT.

Lisa is magical on stage - imagine walking up there, announcing a 499$ 9070XT that smashes the crap out of the 5070. Instasold.

They do not care enough. Main focus is Instinct cards and ROCm so they can actually compete with nvidia when it comes to big boy money in the data centers. They are capable in hardware department as shown by the MI300/325X. But all hardware in the world won't sell them if they cannot compete with CUDA.
That maybe will change with UDNA when they will not need to focus at all on making new entries in the arch made only for gamers. It will be UDNA for data centers and what is left will be Radeons and APUs, just like Nvidia does now.
They will come back to MCM design I bet then for consumer market, but this time with true chiplet design, not only for memory. They have AI figured out on a hardware level, just need to bring those hardware parts from Instinct to consumer cards, so that leaves them only with RT performance, that will already be improved in RDNA4, but they will need to work on it to really make a leap in UDNA.
I just hope that it will not take them 2 years.
Nvidia did them a favor with 50 series. It's mostly DLSS4 where the performance uplift will come. 5090 received a boost in shaders, others almost nothing.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

But that's what RDNA2 and 3 kinda did, except they still priced them too high or the time to market was too long. The 7800XT for example, if they had that at 499,- when Nvidia dropped Ada, the market share would have certainly looked different. Instead, they had an overpriced 7900XT with nothing below it, yeah, last-gen's power spiking 6800XT.

They just utterly suck at timing and product placement, the products are fine really. I'm really happy with my 7900XT, disregarding the price.

Pricing and this is definitely the biggest problem for AMD right now their fanboys can deny it as much as they want but getting murdered in RT makes it so they can't price anywhere near Nvidia and actually sell... I think had they released the GRE near launch with a 499 price point they would have been cooking honestly it's my favorite RDNA3 card had it not come so late.

This was actually what made the 7900XTX an instant no buy for me my 3080ti either matched it or beat it in RT while giving me DLSS... Had the RT performance came close to the 4080 at 999 and FSR was at least comparable I would have jumped on it.

 

[JustBenching]

But that's what RDNA2 and 3 kinda did, except they still priced them too high or the time to market was too long. The 7800XT for example, if they had that at 499,- when Nvidia dropped Ada, the market share would have certainly looked different. Instead, they had an overpriced 7900XT with nothing below it, yeah, last-gen's power spiking 6800XT that was then going on deep sale (ahem...) still more expensive than 499,-, and old news.

They just utterly suck at timing and product placement, the products are fine really. I'm really happy with my 7900XT, disregarding the price.

Exactly, by the time they launched was too late. The 800xt launched 5+ months after the 4070. And it didn't even have a substantial raster advantage over the 4070. Curiosity alone would have me spent 50 extra bucks for the 4070 just to try FG and dlss.

Pricing and this is definitely the biggest problem for AMD right now their fanboys can deny it as much as they want but getting murdered in RT makes it so they can't price anywhere near Nvidia and actually sell... I think had they released the GRE near launch with a 499 price point they would have been cooking honestly it's my favorite RDNA3 card had it not come so late.

This was actually what made the 7900XTX an instant no buy for me my 3080ti either matched it or beat it in RT while giving me DLSS... Had the RT performance came close to the 4080 at 999 and FSR was at least comparable I would have jumped on it.

Bless your heart, that's what I've been saying for a long time. If you want to sell more cards, your target group was the ampere owners. If you want them to accept an upgrade that lands them at the same RT performance, give them a freaking substantial raster advantage over the competition.

 

[AusWolf]

A lot of comments on twitter fell for the 5070 = 4090. What the actual heck

And some people don't get why I spoke so harshly against the misleading MFG performance data in the keynote. This is why. People are very easy to manipulate, and that is exactly what Nvidia is doing.

Frankly I think they simply can't get that RT performance up at all, and that's what we're seeing unfold in front of us right now. They can't figure it out. Intel probably still scales better with it. Nvidia is somewhere in the distance. And the unholy combo with FSR/FG is probably even worse.

Look at FSR. Surpassed on all fronts by both green and blue. RT: was supposed to already be improved in RDNA3. It just ain't happening. The talent drain due to lack of investment is real and the old boys don't understand it.

I think the 'we go midrange' announcement was already heavy cope for their lack of development. They already were moving in various ways with 'RDNA 3.5' and what not. We've seen this a dozen times before in the last few decades. RTG is too slow and lacks competence on many if not all fronts. They can build raster performance just fine. Scale GPUs just fine. But featureset? It was never their thing.


The beautiful power of peer pressure and social media. You're not going to be the idiot saying everyone's wrong, are you? And people wonder why things are going to shit and they don't understand things anymore...

RT was never meant to improve in RDNA 3. They pretty much reused the same RT engine from RDNA 2, as far as I know. The focus was on MCM and the dual-issue shaders, none of which turned out to be very fruitful. Other than that, I agree.

On another note, I just spotted some Asus and Palit 5080s listed at a UK retailer, but there's no price or availability info on them, yet. It looks like things are moving quicker than I thought.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Bless your heart, that's what I've been saying for a long time. If you want to sell more cards, your target group was the ampere owners. If you want them to accept an upgrade that lands them at the same RT performance, give them a freaking substantial raster advantage over the competition.

At the time I was pretty annoyed with Nvidia and their 1200 usd 4080 and was hopeful RDNA3 would be a much much better RDNA2.... Nov 3 came and it honestly looked pretty good but when actual real performance numbers came out I was like well shit.... Keep in mind they were showing 50-70% over the 6950XT it ended up around 35%...

 

[JustBenching]

At the time I was pretty annoyed with Nvidia and their 1200 usd 4080 and was hopeful RDNA3 would be a much much better RDNA2.... Nov 3 came and it honestly looked pretty good but when actual real performance numbers came out I was like well shit.... Keep in mind they were showing 50-70% over the 6950XT it ended up around 35%...

Id wager if it landed at that 70% over the 6950xt, would sell like hotcakes. Even though "high end people buy Nvidia" and "we want a competitive amd to buy Nvidia cheaper"

 

[AusWolf]

Exactly, by the time they launched was too late. The 800xt launched 5+ months after the 4070. And it didn't even have a substantial raster advantage over the 4070. Curiosity alone would have me spent 50 extra bucks for the 4070 just to try FG and dlss.

I think that's why they decided to skip high-end RDNA 4. They didn't want to risk spending their precious time developing a product that most probably can't compete, and leave Nvidia a chance to take such a massive win on the only front that they (AMD) are actually good at.

 

[JustBenching]

And some people don't get why I spoke so harshly against the misleading MFG performance data in the keynote. This is why. People are very easy to manipulate, and that is exactly what Nvidia is doing.

Jensen made it absolutely clear that 5070 = 4090 is IMPOSSIBLE without AI, but people just hear what they wanna hear. The slides didn't help either.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Id wager if it landed at that 70% over the 6950xt, would sell like hotcakes. Even though "high end people buy Nvidia" and "we want a competitive amd to buy Nvidia cheaper"

I do think there is a large portion of gamers who will only but Nvidia, Hell even I haven't bought AMD for a primary system since the 290X but I do think they can get back to a 60/40 spit if they really went after it the problem is would that even be profitable us gamers can complain about pricing till we are blue in the face but unless we can actually see development/marketing/component cost we don't even know how bad it really is.

Jensen made it absolutely clear that 5070 = 4090 is IMPOSSIBLE without AI, but people just hear what they wanna hear. The slides didn't help either.

And it's working people actively think FG equals more performance so passionately that they believe anyone who thinks otherwise is stupid.....

Me

 

[Visible Noise]

RT was never meant to improve in RDNA 3. They pretty much reused the same RT engine from RDNA 2, as far as I know.

I’m temped to look at you post history from back then, but I’ll just leave these here.

 

[JustBenching]

I do think there is a large portion of gamers who will only but Nvidia, Hell even I haven't bought AMD for a primary system since the 290X but I do think they can get back to a 60/40 spit if they really went after it the problem is would that even be profitable us gamers can complain about pricing till we are blue in the face but unless we can actually see development/marketing/component cost we don't even know how bad it really is.

Can you define large though? Cause sure, there is also a portion that only buys amd. The majority don't care about the brand.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Can you define large though? Cause sure, there is also a portion that only buys amd. The majority don't care about the brand.

let's say their market share is 80% probably around 20-30% of that.... I'm not saying they would outright not buy AMD but the AMD card would have to be so good AMD would be losing money on it is what I meant.

 

[JustBenching]

And it's working people actively think FG equals more performance so passionately that they believe anyone who thinks otherwise is stupid.....

Me

On another forum, people are looking for used 4090s for 600 to 800 bucks. Because of course, 5070 = 4090. Lord help us, I think we are doomed.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

On another forum, people are looking for used 4090s for 600 to 800 bucks. Because of course, 5070 = 4090. Lord help us, I think we are doomed.

Pretty soon we are going to get 1 frame and 20 interpolated frames and the fanboys are going to go.....

 

[AusWolf]

I’m temped to look at you post history from back then, but I’ll just leave these here.

View attachment 378947View attachment 378948

There's no need to be snarky, if I'm wrong, I'll admit it. My main goal here on TPU is to learn, after all. Although I think what we're seeing in those slides are minor improvements, and not a completely reworked RT engine that they promised for RDNA 4.

On another forum, people are looking for used 4090s for 600 to 800 bucks. Because of course, 5070 = 4090. Lord help us, I think we are doomed.

Maybe they're selling them, too. Maybe this is the time to buy them up in bulk, and sell them for a profit when the 5070 is out.

 

[Visible Noise]

5090 Hands on

 

[Vayra86]

On another forum, people are looking for used 4090s for 600 to 800 bucks. Because of course, 5070 = 4090. Lord help us, I think we are doomed.

Hey, I'm looking for a 4090 for 600-800 bucks too. I don't care what anyone says about the 5070, but that sounds like a fantastic deal.

In the real world (Tweakers.net, Netherlands buy/sell 2nd hand market) I see various 4090's out for sale at 1500,- ~1800,- EUR. All sellers say they are going to buy a 5090.

 

[John974]

People buy Nvidia nomatter what.. even back when the 9700pro was the much better choice Nvidia sold very very well. Amd needs multiple wins in a row to gain market share.

Just like with cpu's, even now people still buy intel for gaming systems. Ryzen is doing well now but it should be even better.

And when only releasing "on par" or worse gpu's it will not change.

I have had a lot of Amd gpu's only because of the lower price. I only do native res. So the XTX served me well. If the 4080 was cheaper at release or now the 5080 will be much better in raster I will buy NV. When I get wacked on the head (hard) maybe I'll go with the 5090.

The resell value of NV high-end cards is insane so that might make the 5090 worth it, but it has to be much faster than the 4090 for me in native res.

Maybe a used 4090.... We'll see.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Hey, I'm looking for a 4090 for 600-800 bucks too. I don't care what anyone says about the 5070, but that sounds like a fantastic deal.

If anyone sees a 4090 for 600 bucks from a non shady source they should buy it immediately lol...

 

[Legacy-ZA]

Vex did a pretty good video on what we can expect, I am in agreement with him. nGreedia is simply bamboozling it's customer base again:

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Vex did a pretty good video on what we can expect, I am in agreement with him. nGreedia is simply bamboozling it's customer base again:

I mean people who haven't learned they need to wait for reviews are a lost cause regardless... w1z isn't going to go for the MFFG BS


These cards can go anywhere from great all the way down to meh depending on actual performance gains gen on gen.

 

[Legacy-ZA]

I mean people who haven't learned they need to wait for reviews are a lost cause regardless... w1z isn't going to go for the MFFG BS


These cards can go anywhere from great all the way down to meh depending on actual performance gains gen on gen.

Aye; Jenson is a master at obfuscation, as I said before, I hate the guy. Lying by omission, is still lying.

The 5070 is a turd, it's only better at A.I workloads, but for rasterization workloads? lol, It's basically a 3070Ti.