Achieving the advertised all core boost of the 13700HX

colossalcrungus · Dec 29, 2023

Hi UncleWebb and folks!

Recently got an HP Victus 16-r0xxx with a 13700HX and an RTX 4060. I'm on F.11 BIOS and have found success with using Throttlestop to tweak my core multipliers, PL1/PL2, and battery saving profiles to fit my gaming/productivity needs.

However, I have run into a few problems - I cannot for the life of me get my processor to boost to the advertised all core boost of 4.5ghz. Even if I set the x7/x8 multipliers in Throttlestop and XTU to 4.5ghz, at most the core effective clock will max out at 3.7/3.8ghz as reported by HWInfo64. And it is not due to thermal throttling - at least initially.

Furthermore, I cannot seem to raise my PL1 above 130 watts. If I set it above 130w in Throttlestop, I do not see any max package power above 130w as reported by HWInfo64. I understand that this is probably a board power limit set in the EC, but would that account for the ridiculously low all core boost I am experiencing? Or is there a separate EC setting that is also limiting the max core frequency?

Attaching some screenshots of my main/FIVR/TPL windows for reference.

P4-630 · Dec 29, 2023

colossalcrungus said:
13700HX

It's turbo speed depends on how the manufacturer has configured/designed it's speed/thermals/power for this specific laptop.
Also the multiplier is locked on Core i7-13700HX.

OneMoar · Dec 29, 2023

Intel doesn't advertise an 'all core boost'
there is no such thing
all core boost is based on workload/thermals/power
its a laptop this behavior is expected and 130W in a laptop is pretty dam fast

Assimilator · Dec 29, 2023

Given that Intel advertises 5GHz at 157W, and your laptop only allows 130W, I don't understand why you would expect to ever see that frequency. I really wish the masjority of people who posted in this subforum would do basic research before buying laptops.

unclewebb · Dec 29, 2023

P4-630 said:
Also the multiplier is locked on Core i7-13700HX.

The HX processors have Unlocked multipliers. These are the same as desktop K series CPUs. ThrottleStop confirms this feature.

OneMoar said:
130W in a laptop is pretty dam fast

130W may be fast but it is not enough power to run a 13th Gen mobile processor at its full rated speed. You will get power limit throttling if you cannot pull more than 130W.

@colossalcrungus

Many HP laptops use an embedded controller (EC) to enforce a 130W power limit. Try setting ThrottleStop up properly and turn on the Log File option so I can see what is happening. Set both Long Power PL1 and Short Power PL2 to 200W just to make sure they are not causing any problems. Set the Turbo Time Limit to the default 56 seconds. Clear both Clamp boxes and clear the Sync MMIO box. You do not need to check Sync MMIO when Lock MMIO is checked.

Your screenshot shows a max temperature of 78°C at only 68.8W. Even if there were no power limits, I doubt your cooling is going to be able to handle the CPU running beyond 130W. For comparison, the cooling in the Legion 9i series can take an HX processor up to 180W or 190W.

Run a consistent test like Cinebench for 10 or 15 minutes. Post a log file when you are done testing so I can have a look.

Run HWiNFO and see if it reports that IA-CEP is enabled. This is a current throttling scheme that Intel has dreamed up. ThrottleStop shows that Undervolt Protection is enabled and I will assume that HP does not give you any option in the BIOS to disable this feature. CEP can kill performance when trying to run a CPU at maximum speed and power. I doubt any HP laptop BIOS will ever have the option to disable CEP if it is enabled.

Assimilator said:
I really wish the majority of people who posted in this subforum would do basic research before buying laptops.

If his HP laptop is using an embedded controller to limit his laptop to only 130W, I am pretty sure that HP never mentioned this limitation anywhere on their sales sheet. Proper research of laptops is next to impossible. Most laptop review sites leave out any important details like hidden throttling schemes that most manufacturers use. Any laptop review site that is 100% honest will not have access to any new laptops to test.

colossalcrungus · Dec 29, 2023

Assimilator said:
Given that Intel advertises 5GHz at 157W, and your laptop only allows 130W, I don't understand why you would expect to ever see that frequency. I really wish the masjority of people who posted in this subforum would do basic research before buying laptops.

View attachment 327365

Over 4000 posts since 2005 and you can’t read an Intel spec sheet correctly? Embarrassing. 5ghz is the max SINGLE core boost.

I am concerned that my max ALL p-core frequency is very nominally low at 3.7ghz.

I don’t know if there’s perfect linear scaling between power limit and boost frequency with this dumb Alder Lake refresh chip but I guess if 130/157 = 82.8% of max TDP, then 3.7/4.5 = 82% of max all core boost potential?

P4-630 · Dec 29, 2023

unclewebb said:
The HX processors have Unlocked multipliers. These are the same as desktop K series CPUs. ThrottleStop confirms this feature.

According to TPU:

The multiplier is locked on Core i7-13700HX, which limits its overclocking potential.

Intel Core i7-13700HX Specs

Raptor Lake-HX, 16 Cores, 24 Threads, 2.1 GHz, 55 W

www.techpowerup.com

Assimilator · Dec 29, 2023

P4-630 said:
According to TPU:

The multiplier is locked on Core i7-13700HX, which limits its overclocking potential.

Intel Core i7-13700HX Specs

Raptor Lake-HX, 16 Cores, 24 Threads, 2.1 GHz, 55 W

www.techpowerup.com

TPU is wrong, https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/overclocking-intel-processors.html shows:

cc @W1zzard - not sure who maintains the CPU DB.

unclewebb · Dec 29, 2023

colossalcrungus said:
I am concerned that my max ALL p-core frequency is very nominally low at 3.7ghz.

Can you post a ThrottleStop log file that shows this? Some monitoring software including the in game MHz being reported is not very accurate when a CPU is power limit throttling or thermal throttling.

W1zzard · Dec 30, 2023

Assimilator said:
cc @W1zzard - not sure who maintains the CPU DB.

@Fouquin

dc_IV · Dec 31, 2023

I have an Alienware m16 R1 with the same i7-13700HX. I also have the same issue where I can't get this CPU past ~130w. I know the m16 R1 is capable of hitting 165w for the CPU so I am not sure what is limiting my Max. Here are my settings, and a logfile.

unclewebb · Dec 31, 2023

dc_IV said:
I am not sure

Look at the log file. Your CPU is hitting 100C and is constantly thermal throttling. It is impossible to get maximum performance out of a CPU when it is overheating.

dc_IV · Dec 31, 2023

unclewebb said:
Look at the log file. Your CPU is hitting 100C and is constantly thermal throttling. It is impossible to get maximum performance out of a CPU when it is overheating.

The unfortunate issue is that P-Cores 3 & 5 are about 6C to 14C higher temp than the other P-Cores according to HWINFO64 so it's throttling because of a couple of misfits!

OneMoar · Dec 31, 2023

its a Hp be thankful it doesn't throttle at 95w lol

could do lquid metal

PHVM_BR · Dec 31, 2023

dc_IV said:
I have an Alienware m16 R1 with the same i7-13700HX. I also have the same issue where I can't get this CPU past ~130w. I know the m16 R1 is capable of hitting 165w for the CPU so I am not sure what is limiting my Max. Here are my settings, and a logfile.
View attachment 327593 View attachment 327594 View attachment 327595 View attachment 327596 View attachment 327597

What was running while writing the log file?

Are you using full speed fan mode (fn+f1) and using a support to raise the base to improve fresh air entry into the system?

Alienware M16 can sustain +165W when at full load on the CPU alone, but for that it needs a good thermal compound well applied.

Unfortunately, the quality of the factory thermal paste application varies a lot and in your case it is only sustaining ~110W.

dc_IV · Dec 31, 2023

PHVM_BR said:
What was running while writing the log file?

Are you using full speed fan mode (fn+f1) and using a support to raise the base to improve fresh air entry into the system?

Alienware M16 can sustain +165W when at full load on the CPU alone, but for that it needs a good thermal compound well applied.

Unfortunately, the quality of the factory thermal paste application varies a lot and in your case it is only sustaining ~110W.

Q. What was running while writing the log file?
A. It was TS Bench running 960M

Q. Are you using full speed fan mode (fn+f1) and using a support to raise the base to improve fresh air entry into the system?
A1. I have the front propped up about 1.5cm. I use the front to not block any of the vents in the rear.
A2. FN + F1 does not doing anything, but I do have Ultra Performance set in Thermal Management in the Power screen.
I fully uninstalled AWCC and Intel XTU based on some warnings they would overwrite my undervolt protection disabled setting.
I used smokeless_UMAF to disable the protection since I am running a BIOS that hid all the fun settings.

Q. Alienware M16 can sustain +165W when at full load on the CPU alone, but for that it needs a good thermal compound well applied.
A. I am seeing some comments over on Reddit, so I was not happy to see my results. Example below with the best stable UV I can do. I used Excel's Filter to focus just on the 100C. I see now that there's up to a 24C difference in P-core temps! Sheesh...

Edited to add chart and chart methodology.

P-core 0 [°C]	P-core 1 [°C]	P-core 2 [°C]	P-core 3 [°C]	P-core 4 [°C]	P-core 5 [°C]	P-core 6 [°C]	P-core 7 [°C]
78	88	85	100	91	100	88	98
76	86	83	100	89	100	86	97
77	88	86	100	88	100	88	97
77	88	85	100	88	98	86	96
77	87	80	100	83	95	86	95
76	85	83	100	89	97	88	96
79	88	85	100	89	100	86	96
78	88	82	100	84	100	86	96
76	88	85	100	84	89	85	96

PHVM_BR · Dec 31, 2023

dc_IV said:
Q. What was running while writing the log file?
A. It was TS Bench running 960M

Q. Are you using full speed fan mode (fn+f1) and using a support to raise the base to improve fresh air entry into the system?
A1. I have the front propped up about 1.5cm. I use the front to not block any of the vents in the rear.
A2. FN + F1 does not doing anything, but I do have Ultra Performance set in Thermal Management in the Power screen.
I fully uninstalled AWCC and Intel XTU based on some warnings they would overwrite my undervolt protection disabled setting.
I used smokeless_UMAF to disable the protection since I am running a BIOS that hid all the fun settings.

Q. Alienware M16 can sustain +165W when at full load on the CPU alone, but for that it needs a good thermal compound well applied.
A. I am seeing some comments over on Reddit, so I was not happy to see my results. Example below with the best stable UV I can do. I used Excel's Filter to focus just on the 100C. I see now that there's up to a 24C difference in P-core temps! Sheesh...

Edited to add chart and chart methodology.

P-core 0 [°C] P-core 1 [°C] P-core 2 [°C] P-core 3 [°C] P-core 4 [°C] P-core 5 [°C] P-core 6 [°C] P-core 7 [°C]
78
88
85
100
91
100
88
98
76
86
83
100
89
100
86
97
77
88
86
100
88
100
88
97
77
88
85
100
88
98
86
96
77
87
80
100
83
95
86
95
76
85
83
100
89
97
88
96
79
88
85
100
89
100
86
96
78
88
82
100
84
100
86
96
76
88
85
100
84
89
85
96

M16 with i7-13700HX uses conventional thermal paste and its application is horrible.

At full load there is 1 P-core at 70°C, 4 P-core at 80°C, 1 P-core at 90°C and 2 P-core permanently at 100°C.

A temperature difference is normal, but its gradient shows poor application.

Change the thermal paste to PTM 7950 and you will be able to increase your thermal headroom to +160W.

Without AWCC and in Ultra Performance I don't know if the fans reach 100%.

As for using a support to move the air intake the important thing is to move it away from the back, precisely where the air intake is positioned.

Bogus5 · Dec 31, 2023

@ dc_IV

Why are you so careful about undervolting? For your CPU: CPU Core -140 mV and CPU P Cache -120 mV, that's pretty much the norm.

unclewebb · Dec 31, 2023

dc_IV said:
TS Bench

The TS Bench has never been tested in Windows 11 or on a 13th Gen CPU. One user showed that the tasks it creates were not being properly scheduled on the P cores. I recommend using Cinebench which should equally load all of the cores.

You probably still have a thermal paste issue but it might not be as bad as your temperature data indicates.

dc_IV · Dec 31, 2023

Bogus5 said:
@ dc_IV

Why are you so careful about undervolting? For your CPU: CPU Core -140 mV and CPU P Cache -120 mV, that's pretty much the norm.

Unfortunately my P Cache locks the system upon applying more than -84 mV, and Cinebench locks up at completion when it is -82.1 mV, so I trust -80.1 mV

unclewebb · Dec 31, 2023

dc_IV said:
my P Cache locks the system

Have you tried using the mV Boost feature in the FIVR window? This can help cover up some light load instability which can give you more room to undervolt. Try setting this to 100.

Lowering the AC DC load line can also help fix crashes when going from full load to light load. Your BIOS might not give you access to this setting.

dc_IV · Dec 31, 2023

unclewebb said:
Have you tried using the mV Boost feature in the FIVR window? This can help cover up some light load instability which can give you more room to undervolt. Try setting this to 100.

Lowering the AC DC load line can also help fix crashes when going from full load to light load. Your BIOS might not give you access to this setting.

THANK YOU! Stable at -115.2 mV on both CPU Core and CPU P Cache with 100 mv Boost. Cinebench increased from 1279 to 1293 (~1%) but my baseline is 1174, so still heading in a nice direction on the CPU Multi score. Another log file snippet, showing I think is some correlation to running TS Bench. I haven't looked yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if P-cores 3, 5, and 7 are located near each other, or the paste has a path where there is less near those P-core's die locations.

P-core 0 [°C]	P-core 1 [°C]	P-core 2 [°C]	P-core 3 [°C]	P-core 4 [°C]	P-core 5 [°C]	P-core 6 [°C]	P-core 7 [°C]
80	88	85	100	92	100	88	95
79	88	86	98	94	100	88	96
81	87	87	100	93	100	88	91
81	88	85	96	92	100	88	96
78	88	89	98	94	100	89	92
81	90	86	97	92	100	89	97
81	88	90	98	89	100	86	90
81	88	90	100	96	100	86	97
82	90	87	100	94	100	89	97
81	90	86	100	92	100	80	94
82	88	86	100	92	100	88	97
81	90	86	100	92	100	88	94
81	88	87	98	94	100	86	95
83	90	86	100	91	100	86	98
82	88	87	94	89	100	90	95
81	90	85	98	92	100	86	95
83	88	82	100	94	100	89	95
80	88	87	100	92	100	85	96
81	88	87	100	92	100	86	97
80	90	83	98	91	100	86	95
82	87	85	97	92	100	86	95
81	90	92	98	93	100	86	96
83	90	87	100	92	100	88	97
79	88	87	98	93	100	88	96
80	90	87	100	93	100	85	94
80	88	89	100	94	100	86	96
80	90	87	98	93	100	89	90
82	90	87	100	92	100	88	96
78	88	85	100	93	100	86	95

A&P211 · Dec 31, 2023

OneMoar said:
Intel doesn't advertise an 'all core boost'
there is no such thing
all core boost is based on workload/thermals/power
its a laptop this behavior is expected and 130W in a laptop is pretty dam fast

130w in a laptop is very good, I tested a Asus g16 with a i9 13980hx earlier this year and that went upto 143w with fans at full throttle, about 130w with normal fans.

Bogus5 · Jan 1, 2024

A&P211 said:
130w in a laptop is very good, I tested a Asus g16 with a i9 13980hx earlier this year and that went upto 143w with fans at full throttle, about 130w with normal fans.

On the G16 with the same CPU, I have on the Turbo in the PL1 170 W and on the PL2 175 W.
And the physical power consumption of Cinebench R23 is 170W.

A&P211 · Jan 1, 2024

Bogus5 said:
On the G16 with the same CPU, I have on the Turbo in the PL1 170 W and on the PL2 175 W.
And the physical power consumption of Cinebench R23 is 170W.

I got into those territories for a few seconds, goes down to 130-140w range after the heatsink is saturated. Still very good, I will replace my current laptop with that when soon.

Bogus5 said:
On the G16 with the same CPU, I have on the Turbo in the PL1 170 W and on the PL2 175 W.
And the physical power consumption of Cinebench R23 is 170W.

Does throttlestop work on that laptop, if you know?

System Name	AlderLake
Processor	Intel i7 12700K P-Cores @ 5Ghz
Motherboard	Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Master
Cooling	Noctua NH-U12A 2 fans + Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme + 5 case fans
Memory	32GB DDR5 Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 6000MT/s CL36
Video Card(s)	MSI RTX 2070 Super Gaming X Trio
Storage	Samsung 980 Pro 1TB + 970 Evo 500GB + 850 Pro 512GB + 860 Evo 1TB x2
Display(s)	23.8" Dell S2417DG 165Hz G-Sync 1440p
Case	Be quiet! Silent Base 600 - Window
Audio Device(s)	Panasonic SA-PMX94 / Realtek onboard + B&O speaker system / Harman Kardon Go + Play / Logitech G533
Power Supply	Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 750W
Mouse	Logitech MX Anywhere 2 Laser wireless
Keyboard	RAPOO E9270P Black 5GHz wireless
Software	Windows 11
Benchmark Scores	Cinebench R23 (Single Core) 1936 @ stock Cinebench R23 (Multi Core) 23006 @ stock

System Name	RPC MK2.5
Processor	Ryzen 5800x
Motherboard	Gigabyte Aorus Pro V2
Cooling	Thermalright Phantom Spirit SE
Memory	CL16 BL2K16G36C16U4RL 3600 1:1 micron e-die
Video Card(s)	GIGABYTE RTX 3070 Ti GAMING OC
Storage	Nextorage NE1N 2TB ADATA SX8200PRO NVME 512GB, Intel 545s 500GBSSD, ADATA SU800 SSD, 3TB Spinner
Display(s)	LG Ultra Gear 32 1440p 165hz Dell 1440p 75hz
Case	Phanteks P300 /w 300A front panel conversion
Audio Device(s)	onboard
Power Supply	SeaSonic Focus+ Platinum 750W
Mouse	Kone burst Pro
Keyboard	SteelSeries Apex 7
Software	Windows 11 +startisallback

System Name	Firelance.
Processor	Threadripper 3960X
Motherboard	ROG Strix TRX40-E Gaming
Cooling	IceGem 360 + 6x Arctic Cooling P12
Memory	8x 16GB Patriot Viper DDR4-3200 CL16
Video Card(s)	MSI GeForce RTX 4060 Ti Ventus 2X OC
Storage	2TB WD SN850X (boot), 4TB Crucial P3 (data)
Display(s)	3x AOC Q32E2N (32" 2560x1440 75Hz)
Case	Enthoo Pro II Server Edition (Closed Panel) + 6 fans
Power Supply	Fractal Design Ion+ 2 Platinum 760W
Mouse	Logitech G602
Keyboard	Razer Pro Type Ultra
Software	Windows 10 Professional x64

System Name	AlderLake
Processor	Intel i7 12700K P-Cores @ 5Ghz
Motherboard	Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Master
Cooling	Noctua NH-U12A 2 fans + Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme + 5 case fans
Memory	32GB DDR5 Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 6000MT/s CL36
Video Card(s)	MSI RTX 2070 Super Gaming X Trio
Storage	Samsung 980 Pro 1TB + 970 Evo 500GB + 850 Pro 512GB + 860 Evo 1TB x2
Display(s)	23.8" Dell S2417DG 165Hz G-Sync 1440p
Case	Be quiet! Silent Base 600 - Window
Audio Device(s)	Panasonic SA-PMX94 / Realtek onboard + B&O speaker system / Harman Kardon Go + Play / Logitech G533
Power Supply	Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 750W
Mouse	Logitech MX Anywhere 2 Laser wireless
Keyboard	RAPOO E9270P Black 5GHz wireless
Software	Windows 11
Benchmark Scores	Cinebench R23 (Single Core) 1936 @ stock Cinebench R23 (Multi Core) 23006 @ stock

System Name	Firelance.
Processor	Threadripper 3960X
Motherboard	ROG Strix TRX40-E Gaming
Cooling	IceGem 360 + 6x Arctic Cooling P12
Memory	8x 16GB Patriot Viper DDR4-3200 CL16
Video Card(s)	MSI GeForce RTX 4060 Ti Ventus 2X OC
Storage	2TB WD SN850X (boot), 4TB Crucial P3 (data)
Display(s)	3x AOC Q32E2N (32" 2560x1440 75Hz)
Case	Enthoo Pro II Server Edition (Closed Panel) + 6 fans
Power Supply	Fractal Design Ion+ 2 Platinum 760W
Mouse	Logitech G602
Keyboard	Razer Pro Type Ultra
Software	Windows 10 Professional x64

Processor	Ryzen 7 5700X
Memory	48 GB
Video Card(s)	RTX 4080
Storage	2x HDD RAID 1, 3x M.2 NVMe
Display(s)	30" 2560x1600 + 19" 1280x1024
Software	Windows 10 64-bit

System Name	Precision 7540
Processor	i9-9980HK
Memory	4x16GB HyperX Impact 2666MHz CL15
Video Card(s)	RTX 4000 Max-Q (90W)
Storage	3x1TB XPG SX8200 Pro Gen3x4
Power Supply	240W

System Name	Asus G16
Processor	i9 13980HX
Motherboard	Asus motherboard
Cooling	2 fans
Memory	32gb 4800mhz
Video Card(s)	4080 laptop
Storage	16tb, x2 8tb SSD
Display(s)	QHD+ 16in 16:10 (2560x1600, WQXGA) 240hz
Power Supply	330w psu

Achieving the advertised all core boost of the 13700HX

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