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AMD Denies Radeon RX 9070 XT $899 USD Starting Price Point Rumors

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Bingo... and why? Because they stay their course. Perseverance and consistency are key.
That much I agree with.

it's all about price relative to their direct performance competition. AMD have been sitting all comfy just undercutting nvidia by $50 last couple generations and no one is buying them.

If amd doesn't care about their market share why should anyone else.
They lack the feature set which means they need to undercut nvidia by.. well more, otherwise no'ones giving amd any serious thought yet again. It's not even a personal opinion at this point, their decreasing market share numbers does all the talking for them.
And that is another reason why I think cutting the high end is a good idea. Less spent on R&D on chips means more R&D budget for features (not that I care about said features, but the general public does).
 
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Not true. You are making stuff up man. I don't remember a single review that didn't chastise the 4080 for it's price.
The 4080 got criticized because it was 50% more expensive than the previous gen xx80 card, yet reviewers still recommended it and everyone still bought it.
Nah, it's obvious that amd buyers want nvidia to lower prices so they can buy amd for cheap. I mean, we've just witnessed it happen right? You keep claiming nvidia buyers will just buy anything, mindshare, marketing and all these nothingburger terms and yet, if that was true nvidia wouldn't lower their prices now would they? Reality just shows you are wrong - repeatedly. Thank god nividia is here to keep amd in check cause I don't even wanna know what amd was cooking this time around.
It isn't, nvidia has nearly 90% market share so they control the market, AMD can sell for cheap and everyone will still ignore them because nvidia sells their cards as the premium brand. And yes nvidia buyers will buy another nvidia card, the 4060 8gb and 4070 are evidence of that. But thank god nvidia is here with with all the market share while forcing upscaling on everyone, as AAA game devs put graphics over everything else.
How’s that? Nvidia was the first to put the required hardware into a GPU. You know, the hardware AMD doesn’t have five years later? Even my phone has enough AI compute. Not AMD’s $1,000 graphics cards though.
How usable is an rtx 20 series card 5 years later? The mentality of parading around for your favorite company doing it first is hilarious, it doesn't matter when the 20 series was terrible at running anything with RT when it was new.
As for AI, most consumers could care less about it.
Wanna bet?
No bets needed.
Why? Do you think we should never move beyond traditional 3D rasterization?
Why do you think we should move beyond traditional rasterization? Rasterization is still the base for games designed today, and its the reason why the 50 series isn't much of an upgrade from the 40 series, because nvidia hasn't really improved the raster hardware.
Here’s the news you can’t seem to understand – even AMD has said rastorization is done. Everyone in the graphics industry is moving onto the next generation. I think it’s hilarious when people like you just refuse to let go, technology moves on.
You don't understand that games are only getting more graphically demanding, more graphics power will still be needed and both Nvidia and AMD can't just sell you on fake frames.
I agree with @Vayra86 that RT isn't everything the AAA game devs and the media wants to hype it up as, yet we're still getting forced to use it even though devs which put RT over everything else is hurting games quality.
I have more than enough of a backlog of games, so I can enjoy games worth playing rather than keep coming back to a handful of games the RT fans seem to only play for the shiny graphics and not much else.
What about AMD‘s fake frames? And by the way rasterization is all fake too. You’ve been told that multiple times also but you just can’t seem to get a grasp on it. I wonder if you really have any knowledge of how 3-D graphics work and how they generated. The keyword in that sentence being ”generated”.

One more time: All frames are fake.
Real frames are generated by the GPU, which changes based on user interaction playing the game.
Fake frames are generated using frame data from a previous frame.
And no I don't need to be "told" anything. I can have my own defenition on what frame gen is, because either way frame generation isn't real frames.
 
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The 4080 got criticized because it was 50% more expensive than the previous gen xx80 card,
But you said the exact opposite...that nvidia isn't getting criticized for it's price by reviewers....man, come on.
It isn't, nvidia has nearly 90% market share so they control the market, AMD can sell for cheap and everyone will still ignore them because nvidia sells their cards as the premium brand. And yes nvidia buyers will buy another nvidia card, the 4060 8gb and 4070 are evidence of that. But thank god nvidia is here with with all the market share while forcing upscaling on everyone, as AAA game devs put graphics over everything else.
No, if amd sells a better card for less money, people will buy it. It's the exact opposite that isn't true, if nvidia makes a cheaper better card some people will still buy AMD regardless.
 
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And no I don't need to be "told" anything. I can have my own defenition on what frame gen is, because either way frame generation isn't real frames.
Reminded me then of the Andy Clarke book "The Experience Machine: How Our Minds Predict and Shape Reality"
 
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As for refusal... lol mate. I'll just play what I like to play and spend money on, and its clear these RT posterboys ain't it, to me, yet or anytime soon. I'm also not in a rush and can also play content many years later, when its actually feature complete and runs great. Its also fine if there is a segment that feels like anything RT'd is instant win, well power to them. Its just a shame they're also causing our GPUs to get a heavily inflated price tag and they're probably also indirectly damaging their own desired content quality. In the end all customers voting with wallets. The jury ain't out on the RT part of gaming though. The market will decide and it leans entirely on content and not hardware. If you need an example of how this can backfire, look at VR, I reckon there are more headsets than actual games longer than 30 minutes now. There is not a single VR 'killer app' everyone needs to have seen. Similarly, there still isn't a single RT masterpiece game that you must have played. No it ain't Cyberpunk, that's the beta playground at best.
I thought about it for a while...and games that managed to push the boundaries visually, and delivering a generational level of quality of gameplay at the same time are quite rare...
-Crysys was a very good game I heard, but the meme overtook it's reputation.
-Maybe Metroid prime ? But that was all relative to the gamecube hardware.
-Zelda games are also relative to the power of nintendo hardware.
-Red dead redemption seems to fit the bill. But rockstar is a console company first. GTA 6 on PC is still waiting for a date.
-Remedy is trying to offer bleeding edge visuals, and interesting gameplay elements, but the David Lynch influence is too strong to get mainstream sucess :D

Most of the time you end up with games that are really good, but only look great/okay for their time, not really "insane" technically. The next doom will try to take on that challenge, sounds like they went mental with path tracing being involved in hit detection.
 
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It isn't, nvidia has nearly 90% market share so they control the market, AMD can sell for cheap and everyone will still ignore them because nvidia sells their cards as the premium brand. And yes nvidia buyers will buy another nvidia card, the 4060 8gb and 4070 are evidence of that. But thank god nvidia is here with with all the market share while forcing upscaling on everyone, as AAA game devs put graphics over everything else.
Sorry man but you gotta reflect more and do it better. History disagrees with you. Every time AMD had a design win, they managed to sell it quite well. The problem is, they are not consistent on that front. Until Zen - and look how that consistency has paid off for them to this day. Intel is in shambles, chiplet CPUs are The Way, and every gen is full of improvements still.

Its really simple, good product, good sales. AMD just rarely has a spree of good products, while Nvidia consistently delivers them gen on gen. And when they DID have a solid product line up with RDNA2 and even 3, they priced themselves out of the market, underestimating the featureset deficit tremendously (and being way too slow on developing it further, again).
 
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Most of the time you end up with games that are really good, but only look great/okay for their time, not really "insane" technically. The next doom will try to take on that challenge, sounds like they went mental with path tracing being involved in hit detection.
This sounds interesting. I vaguely remember hearing something about Forza using Ray Tracing for their audio.
 
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No, if amd sells a better card for less money, people will buy it. It's the exact opposite that isn't true, if nvidia makes a cheaper better card some people will still buy AMD regardless.
Clearly shown by AMD's soaring market share. C'mon man. ;)

I'm not saying there aren't any people who stick to AMD, but their number compared to those who swear their lives on Nvidia is tiny.
 
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Clearly shown by AMD's soaring market share. C'mon man. ;)

I'm not saying there aren't any people who stick to AMD, but their number compared to those who swear their lives on Nvidia is tiny.
It's not soaring cause they are not making good cards. There is a combination of too late, lacking features, lacking in modern graphics techniques, overpromising creating insane expectations and then underdelivering.
 
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I used to do the same with AMD on WCG, but there seems to be no GPU work there lately. Even my Nvidia cards get nothing.
Im stopped all the projects as my house became too hot with the amount of gpu's pumping for the several projects
Yes i noticed the same at WCG so i kinda had enough years of spending silly amounts of money on several projects
LoL gettting to old for it ;)
 
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It's not soaring cause they are not making good cards. There is a combination of too late, lacking features, lacking in modern graphics techniques, overpromising creating insane expectations and then underdelivering.
They do make good cards. Their hardware is fine. As for features, whether they're lacking or not, it depends on the person you ask. If you ask someone who plays with RT and DLSS on a 4080 or 4090, then yes, they're lacking. But if you ask someone who just wants to play games on a tighter budget with not much care for RT, then AMD is just fine.

Im stopped all the projects as my house became too hot with the amount of gpu's pumping for the several projects
Yes i noticed the same at WCG so i kinda had enough years of spending silly amounts of money on several projects
LoL gettting to old for it ;)
I only do it on my HTPCs that both have severely power-restricted CPUs and passively cooled graphics cards.
 
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The 4080 got criticized because it was 50% more expensive than the previous gen xx80 card, yet reviewers still recommended it and everyone still bought it.

It isn't, nvidia has nearly 90% market share so they control the market, AMD can sell for cheap and everyone will still ignore them because nvidia sells their cards as the premium brand. And yes nvidia buyers will buy another nvidia card, the 4060 8gb and 4070 are evidence of that. But thank god nvidia is here with with all the market share while forcing upscaling on everyone, as AAA game devs put graphics over everything else.

How usable is an rtx 20 series card 5 years later? The mentality of parading around for your favorite company doing it first is hilarious, it doesn't matter when the 20 series was terrible at running anything with RT when it was new.
As for AI, most consumers could care less about it.

No bets needed.

Why do you think we should move beyond traditional rasterization? Rasterization is still the base for games designed today, and its the reason why the 50 series isn't much of an upgrade from the 40 series, because nvidia hasn't really improved the raster hardware.

You don't understand that games are only getting more graphically demanding, more graphics power will still be needed and both Nvidia and AMD can't just sell you on fake frames.
I agree with @Vayra86 that RT isn't everything the AAA game devs and the media wants to hype it up as, yet we're still getting forced to use it even though devs which put RT over everything else is hurting games quality.
I have more than enough of a backlog of games, so I can enjoy games worth playing rather than keep coming back to a handful of games the RT fans seem to only play for the shiny graphics and not much else.

Real frames are generated by the GPU, which changes based on user interaction playing the game.
Fake frames are generated using frame data from a previous frame.
And no I don't need to be "told" anything. I can have my own defenition on what frame gen is, because either way frame generation isn't real frames.
I am one of them who do not give damn for RT or AI, and i do not like upscaling either
 
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I am one of them who do not give damn for RT or AI, and i do not like upscaling either
I think AI has a use, just not the way it's usually overdone, such as making puddles look mirror like or the overly cinematic make everything reflective. Good looking games with realistic reflections was done before hardware RT, it just takes effort, the effort holds up in a lot of older games which still look good.
But I don't care about AI or frame gen though, and I don't need upscaling to run games at 1440p.
 
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I think AI has a use, just not the way it's usually overdone, such as making puddles look mirror like or the overly cinematic make everything reflective. Good looking games with realistic reflections was done before hardware RT, it just takes effort, the effort holds up in a lot of older games which still look good.
But I don't care about AI or frame gen though, and I don't need upscaling to run games at 1440p.
Completely agree
 
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Sorry man but you gotta reflect more and do it better. History disagrees with you. Every time AMD had a design win, they managed to sell it quite well. The problem is, they are not consistent on that front. Until Zen - and look how that consistency has paid off for them to this day. Intel is in shambles, chiplet CPUs are The Way, and every gen is full of improvements still.

Its really simple, good product, good sales. AMD just rarely has a spree of good products, while Nvidia consistently delivers them gen on gen. And when they DID have a solid product line up with RDNA2 and even 3, they priced themselves out of the market, underestimating the featureset deficit tremendously (and being way too slow on developing it further, again).
When AMD does have a design win, it sells well but Nvidia still outsold them, while AMD continued to lose marketshare. I don't know how well consistency would help Radeon as they would have to do something to attract customers, something that Nvidia doesn't have since Nvidia has been successful in selling software at a significant premium. Before RDNA, AMD did have consistency and it didn't seem to help them enough.
However the CPU market isn't the same as the GPU market, AMD would still have to overcome the software features which are proprietary to Nvidia, and compete on gaming when most of those features run better with Nvidia hardware. AMD would have to launch faster cards than Nvidia for several generations, and have better RT and upscaling in order to get the win over the market that Ryzen has achieved. AMD would also have to get away from the old stigma of bad drivers, and the complaints of their cards being too expensive, AMD always has to undercut to the point of having low margins, there can't be consistency when there is likely barely enough R&D to develop the next product.
Nvidia also gets away with a lot of anti-consumer things like GPP, handing game devs piles of money to develop games with features only avaible to Nvidia users, marketing lies like saying the 5070 is faster than a 4090, or the MSRP's being completly fake as the MSRP only applies to the FE card which are usually purposely supply limited.
 
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When AMD does have a design win, it sells well but Nvidia still outsold them, while AMD continued to lose marketshare. I don't know how well consistency would help Radeon as they would have to do something to attract customers, something that Nvidia doesn't have since Nvidia has been successful in selling software at a significant premium. Before RDNA, AMD did have consistency and it didn't seem to help them enough.
However the CPU market isn't the same as the GPU market, AMD would still have to overcome the software features which are proprietary to Nvidia, and compete on gaming when most of those features run better with Nvidia hardware. AMD would have to launch faster cards than Nvidia for several generations, and have better RT and upscaling in order to get the win over the market that Ryzen has achieved. AMD would also have to get away from the old stigma of bad drivers, and the complaints of their cards being too expensive, AMD always has to undercut to the point of having low margins, there can't be consistency when there is likely barely enough R&D to develop the next product.
Nvidia also gets away with a lot of anti-consumer things like GPP, handing game devs piles of money to develop games with features only avaible to Nvidia users, marketing lies like saying the 5070 is faster than a 4090, or the MSRP's being completly fake as the MSRP only applies to the FE card which are usually purposely supply limited.
You can't be serious. The only one paying devs is AMD. Take a freaking look at the amd sponsored games, 9 out of 10 don't have DLSS, 9/10 nvidia sponsored games gave FSR. Stop it man, just stop it.
They do make good cards.
No, they do not. Not for the past 10 years.

2016) RX 480 / RX 470 were the only GPUs they had. They were competitive and they actually sold well (who would have thought, huh?) but you cant' gain marketshare when you only have 2 cards, obviously.

2018) Vega 56 / 64, both were launched a year after their competition (1070, 1080) and were way overpriced. The vega 64 was more expensive than the 1080ti....the only way to afford one at a decent price was to buy one of the GPU + Monitor bundles. So, too late, too expensive. You can't gain marketshare like that

2019) RX 5700, again, decent card but you can't gain marketshare when you only target the lower end of the market. Also, the card was notorious for the blackscreens. Its this card that made a lot of people I know not to risk buying AMD again after experiencing this.

2020) Ill just skip this due to covid + mining, it won't be fair to criticize amd

2022) The 3 cards that should generate the most amount of sales were launched too late or too expensive. The 7900xt was too expensive, the 7800xt was too late, the 7700xt was both late and expensive. You can't gain marketshare like that. On top of that, they were severely lagging behind in RT. Their low end options (7600, 7600xt) were even worse than the pathetic nvidia ones, so you clearly cant drive sales like that. The 7900xtx was the only card that was launched early and with a decent price, and guess what, it sold. It's the only card you can see in the steam hw survey. Who would have thought right?


So which of these generations do you feel like AMD should have a 50/50 marketshare but users were nvidia fanatics?
 
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I haven't said amd should lower their prices. I'm saying that Nvidia doesn't force them to do anything. Amd can decide their own pricing strategy, and up till know they decided to go full greed...

The 5080 is a successor to the 4080 and it's cheaper.

Talking about side grades...in the 9070xt thread... Aight, im out man, enjoy your 9070xt.
4080 super's MSRP was lower than 4080's so I'm sure 5080 is a successor to all 4080 variants not just 4080. It costs more than a 4080 super and it delivers very little as you have seen already probably.
all the lower tier cards will offer very little vs previous gen. Maybe even worse than 5080. I'm pretty sure that will be the case.
 
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No, they do not. Not for the past 10 years.
I said they make good cards - present tense. But let's look at it.

2016) RX 480 / RX 470 were the only GPUs they had. They were competitive and they actually sold well (who would have thought, huh?) but you cant' gain marketshare when you only have 2 cards, obviously.
Is selling well not enough for a profit? With only 2 GPUs, your R&D costs are much lower as well.

2018) Vega 56 / 64, both were launched a year after their competition (1070, 1080) and were way overpriced. The vega 64 was more expensive than the 1080ti....the only way to afford one at a decent price was to buy one of the GPU + Monitor bundles. So, too late, too expensive. You can't gain marketshare like that
Vega 64 was a power hog, and a failed attempt to deliver something truly high-tech to the consumer market with HBM 2.

2019) RX 5700, again, decent card but you can't gain marketshare when you only target the lower end of the market. Also, the card was notorious for the blackscreens. Its this card that made a lot of people I know not to risk buying AMD again after experiencing this.
The 5700 XT had issues, I give you that. I had one, and I was glad to sell it for a profit during COVID. I got a 2070 from the money, which was fine until it coincidentally died a couple of years later.

2020) Ill just skip this due to covid + mining, it won't be fair to criticize amd
You skip the most well-rounded generation in the last 10 years because of COVID? Are you for real, man? :kookoo:
RDNA 2 is the generation that put AMD back onto the map after GCN. You can disagree with me all you want, but I won't budge on this one.

2022) The 3 cards that should generate the most amount of sales were launched too late or too expensive. The 7900xt was too expensive, the 7800xt was too late, the 7700xt was both late and expensive. You can't gain marketshare like that. On top of that, they were severely lagging behind in RT. Their low end options (7600, 7600xt) were even worse than the pathetic nvidia ones, so you clearly cant drive sales like that. The 7900xtx was the only card that was launched early and with a decent price, and guess what, it sold. It's the only card you can see in the steam hw survey. Who would have thought right?
Let's break it down.
7600 = 4060. Both overpriced, but otherwise alright cards.
7600 XT = pointless.
7700 XT = overpriced, the 7800 XT cannibalised it.
7800 XT = bad name, should have been called the 7700 XT. It also came a bit too late. Otherwise, it's a decent card.
7900 XT = same as the 7700 XT, overpriced, the 7900 XTX cannibalised it.
7900 XTX = decent card, I see no issues there.

So which of these generations do you feel like AMD should have a 50/50 marketshare but users were nvidia fanatics?
I never said anything about market share. I said AMD makes decent GPUs. Their issues are elsewhere (bad marketing + playing catch-up with Nvidia instead of creating something of their own).
 
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I never said anything about market share. I said AMD makes decent GPUs. Their issues are elsewhere (bad marketing + playing catch-up with Nvidia instead of creating something of their own).
Well if you follow the discussion, you mentioned amd's market share soaring (sarcastically, obviously), and I addressed that. As you can see for yourself, regardless of whether or not they are making good cards, they always have a fatal flaw (launching too late, launch price is outrageous etc.). The few cards the last few years that launched on time with a decent price have sold well. The XTX last time I checked was at 0,48% of Steam survey, 0,9% for 4080. Now you might say "that's still a 30/70 marketshare" but again, for a card that overpromised (50 to 70% gen on gen was what was hinted at, people were literally expecting this to be 15% faster than the 4080 and closer to the 4090 according to AMD's numbers), and the lagging RT performance, a 30/70 is a homerun.

I skipped RDNA2 cause ampere probably outsold amd 10 to 1 just because of how good they were for mining. You could make your money back in 4-6 months (I was making 360€ a month from a 3090, and that was the worst ampere GPU for mining in terms of ROI).
 
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Well if you follow the discussion, you mentioned amd's market share soaring (sarcastically, obviously), and I addressed that. As you can see for yourself, regardless of whether or not they are making good cards, they always have a fatal flaw (launching too late, launch price is outrageous etc.). The few cards the last few years that launched on time with a decent price have sold well. The XTX last time I checked was at 0,48% of Steam survey, 0,9% for 4080. Now you might say "that's still a 30/70 marketshare" but again, for a card that overpromised (50 to 70% gen on gen was what was hinted at, people were literally expecting this to be 15% faster than the 4080 and closer to the 4090 according to AMD's numbers), and the lagging RT performance, a 30/70 is a homerun.
Well, you basically confirmed what I said above: the cards aren't the problem - marketing and timing are.

If the 9070 XT fails, I would bet that'll probably be because of this again, and not because it's a bad card.
 

the54thvoid

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If the previous few 'discussions' are intent on describing a specific GPU as 'good', you have to create context.

Good is a meaningless word without context. Aus is saying the cards are good. JustBench is saying otherwise. Neither are right. Neither are wrong.

Are AMD's cards good 'enough' - yeah. Are Nv cards better? - Probably, and also definitely (absolute performance). Good for price? Good for power? Good for the personal choice?

C'mon guys - stop spamming the thread with the back and forth need for 'last wordism.'

And also - the topic is the rumoured price. If Nvidia is relevant, it's only to compare perf/$, which doesn't need so much disagreement.
 
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If the previous few 'discussions' are intent on describing a specific GPU as 'good', you have to create context.

Good is a meaningless word without context. Aus is saying the cards are good. JustBench is saying otherwise. Neither are right. Neither are wrong.

Are AMD's cards good 'enough' - yeah. Are Nv cards better? - Probably, and also definitely (absolute performance). Good for price? Good for power? Good for the personal choice?

C'mon guys - stop spamming the thread with the back and forth need for 'last wordism.'

And also - the topic is the rumoured price. If Nvidia is relevant, it's only to compare perf/$, which doesn't need so much disagreement.
I think we are in agreement with Aus, it's just what he meant by the cards being good was the cards themselves, I was talking about the whole product which includes marketing, price, launchdate etc. There was a confusion regarding that but it seems we are in the same page after the clarifications.
 
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Sure, my bad,

I think we are in agreement with Aus, it's just what he meant by the cards being good was the cards themselves, I was talking about the whole product which includes marketing, price, launchdate etc. There was a confusion regarding that but it seems we are in the same page after the clarifications.
Yep - my bad, too.

I tend to overlook what people mean by "the whole product" in my purchases. I rarely ever give marketing any attention. Even the launch date only ever interests me when I'm looking for a new card (like now).

Whenever Mr Jensen or Dr Lisa step on stage to talk about the glorious shiny new toy that everybody should buy right now because it's so fast that you wouldn't believe it, I just laugh.

So I guess, even what "the product" is, is a subjective term in a way. In that sense, AMD's cards (just the cards) are fine, and for my purchases, this is what matters. I barely care about anything else.
 
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