AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D

[Garrus]

Only thing that is amazing is the power efficiency. This is the only reason I'd buy it. It makes RL look pathetic. Honestly 7700 looks awesome and still plenty fast for gaming.

What's the average gaming improvements with X3D if I'm using a lowly 3070/3080/6700XT/6800XT and not a 4090 say at 1440p?

CPU generational improvement is different than a GPU one. If you buy the Ryzen 7600, you're already beating everything previous, including the 5800X3D, at most games. That's because of the improvement to a single core.

With GPU generations, it takes an awful long time for the '50 class to beat the old '90 class. It took 7 years for the RTX 3050 to beat the GTX 980 Ti. 1080 Ti is still more powerful.

So yeah, just upgrading to the latest cheapest overclockable CPU makes sense. Otherwise the 7800X3D would be the only CPU worth buying, but the 8600X will probably beat or tie it 1.5 years from now.

I usually just buy the i5's or the Ryzen 3600, 5600, 7600, and next the 9600 or whatever it is called. Because GPUs improve so much more slowly in the new bottom versus old top sense, I usually buy a more expensive GPU than I'd like to. Otherwise unlike with CPUs, I feel like I'm moving backwards. I owned a GTX 1080 Ti before, I want the next gen GPU that is at least faster than it. etc.

 

[W1zzard]

I'm quite sure you can thoroughly remove this driver manually (along with its likely still present overlay scheme and/or ppm profile - resetting power scheme will change nothing).

Did you actually verify this driver was disabled (via device manage or sc or even pnputil ?

OF course .. I removed it with pnputil after running the AMD uninstaller, which doesn't remove the INFs

I'm felling very stupid asking this, but what's exactly means PBO MAX if this CPU is not overclockable?

It's CO -30 all core?

Not stupid at all, great question. PBO Manual, 300 in all the number inputs, +200 MHz, CO as low as possible to keep stability and stay out of thermal throttle

 

[AusWolf]

only if you could sell the 7700x for a decent price, which will be hard to do. the cpu market has crashed pretty hard.

Good point. Also, my lows are well above my monitor refresh rate in like 99% of the games already, so I guess there's no point in upgrading. I'd better just wait for Zen 5 x3d for a reasonable upgrade.

 

[W1zzard]

How are we supposed to know that there is no improvement on memory overclocking with these x3d chips and new bioses. Secondly, you are running 36-36-36-76 timings on your memory kit when cl 30 kits are widely available; is that because you can't get it to boot with tighter timings or is that the only kit you have for testing?

I am also confused by the overclocking section of the review, it says the cpu is artificially limited to 5050mhz on each core, does that mean the curve optimizer doesn't increase the max clock rate on the cpu?

I have a CL30 kit here of course, and also a 7200 and 7800 kit for Intel. Yet I felt like 6000 CL36 is a reasonable compromise for both platforms. Or are you suggesting to cherry pick max settings for one platform and not for the other?

PBO will increase the clocks with the right settings, but the CPU is configured by AMD to never boost above 5050 MHz, even with PBO. It's an artificial limitation that they added. You can work around this if you increase the base clock above 100 MHz, requires a motherboard with an external clock generator, could break things like storage and GPU due to clocks going out of spec

@W1zzard in regard to your core parking problem. Did these cores show up as parked in Resource Monitor like they normally do

Yes

The second app is for registry settings, it exposes core parking/unparking & boost algorithms among others.

I tried changing those core parking parameters. If I manually turn it off, all cores get loaded properly, of course. But these are no longer the OS defaults, so I'd be testing some kind of hand-tuned configuration that nobody else on the planet has. And it will affect every CPU in a different way. Completely unacceptable for a review like this, so decided to reinstall.

Definitely getting this CPU - my only question is about the EXPO timings and stability

Should I get DDR5-6000 CL36 like in the review or DRR5-6000 CL 30/32 ?

1) Do the tighter timings even matter for gaming performance here?
2) Will 6000-CL30 be 100% rocksolid stable ? CL30 vs CL36 at same 6000 speed is a difference. I've read that Zen 4 CPUs can have some issues with stability (or even just booting) with EXPO 6000 enabled. Would like to know more if possible.

It comes down to your budget. I see 150 € for 32 GB CL30 and 75 € for 32 GB CL36, so twice the price, but on the other hand only the price of one AAA game

1) in a small way, yes, but not enough to justify 75 € imo, i.e. ~10% of the platform cost
2) I feel like memory stability is slightly more challenging on Zen 4 than on other platforms, but it's something you can usually solve, but it'll take some time, and maybe revert to an older BIOS. EXPO is definitely useful as it should ensure stability. "should", not "guarantee", in my experience

 

[ValenOne]

Faster than DDR6000 is only a Intel thing, nothing to gain on AMD here. But I noticed the CL36 RAM kit you used hasn't the best timings out there. Hardware Unboxed" used a CL30 kit and got quiet some performance gains: How To Cripple Zen 4 In Gaming Benchmarks: AMD Zen 4 vs. Intel Raptor Lake Memory Scaling

Spiderman Remaster, high quality, RT high, 1080p
Ryzen 9 7950X
Tuned memory timing DDR5-6000 (CL30-38-38-38-30-68) = 140 fps
DDR5-6000 (CL30-38-38-38-96-96) = 129 fps

The X3D version has less need for tuned memory timings. Tighter memory timings are preferred instead of overclocking.

 

[piloponth]

The 7800X3D is artificially capped to a maximum frequency of 5050 MHz on each core, probably to protect the higher-end X3D CPUs, which are allowed to boost higher. For example, the 7950X3D will boost up to 5250 MHz easily with light loads on it's 3D VCache chiplet.​

If this is true, it is very sad. I was about to go fo direct-die water cooling this CPU with hope for at least 5.2GHz.

 

[bug]

That power consumption, holy shit. It's Athlon 64 vs Pentium 4 all over again.

Out of the box yes. But you can cut ~30% of Alder/Raptor's Lake TDP with a minor performance impact. These architectures aren't as inefficient as Netburst/Prescott, they're just allowed to run wild by default.

 

[AusWolf]

The 7800X3D is artificially capped to a maximum frequency of 5050 MHz on each core, probably to protect the higher-end X3D CPUs, which are allowed to boost higher. For example, the 7950X3D will boost up to 5250 MHz easily with light loads on it's 3D VCache chiplet.​

If this is true, it is very sad. I was about to go fo direct-die water cooling this CPU with hope for at least 5.2GHz.

X3D has never been, and probably never will be about overclocking. It's all about the extra cache. If you want to OC, I'd recommend looking elsewhere - though you won't get the same gaming performance on a non-3D CPU, even with a decent OC, mind you.

 

[theglaze]

but the CPU is configured by AMD to never boost above 5050 MHz, even with PBO. It's an artificial limitation that they added

AMD burned early and impatient adopters with the 7900X3D, which is a bigger waste of sand than any Intel 11th gen CPU. Seems like AMD also hobbled the 7800X3D boost clocks so owners of the 7950X3D don't feel totally betrayed. I get that AMD is seeking to recoup its sunken investment into R&D and fab for the current 'flop' of the two CCD design, but I'm sure there are hundreds (thousands?) of AMD customers who now feel sour for buying a 'higher' SKU and getting less (gaming) performance.

 

[AnarchoPrimitiv]

Those desktop replacement, no compromises on performance "laptops" should use this chip, haha

 

[luciferxy]

The second app is for registry settings, it exposes core parking/unparking & boost algorithms among others.

on win7 you can tweak the registry to unpark the cores w/o using apps. I wonder if it can be done on win 10/11, so that you don't have to reinstall windows.

 

[AnarchoPrimitiv]

AMD burned early and impatient adopters with the 7900X3D, which is a bigger waste of sand than any Intel 11th gen CPU. Seems like AMD also hobbled the 7800X3D boost clocks so owners of the 7950X3D don't feel totally betrayed. I get that AMD is seeking to recoup its sunken investment into R&D and fab for the current 'flop' of the two CCD design, but I'm sure there are hundreds (thousands?) of AMD customers who now feel sour for buying a 'higher' SKU and getting less (gaming) performance.

How did AMD "burn" impatient adopters with the 7900x3d? It was announced exactly when the 7800x3d was going to be released, if someone couldn't wait a month that's on them...you make it seem like AMD did something nefarious....and explain how the 2 CCD design is a "flop"? The CCDs only have 8 cores, so any CPU with more than 8 cores is inherently going to have 2 CCDs...you make it seem like it was a choice on AMD's part and that they have a 16 core ccd that they're just not choosing to use.

Anyone who bought a 12 or 16 core v-cache CPU probably did so because they wanted the best gaming performance, but still needed more than 8 cores for other work....not because they really wanted the 8 core chip and just couldn't wait.....this seems like you're just coming up with really unrealistic hypothetical situations and then blaming AMD for these unrealistic, hypothetical situations

 

[AusWolf]

How did AMD "burn" impatient adopters with the 7900x3d? It was announced exactly when the 7800x3d was going to be released, if someone couldn't wait a month that's on them...you make it seem like AMD did something nefarious....and explain how the 2 CCD design is a "flop"? The CCDs only have 8 cores, so any CPU with more than 8 cores is inherently going to have 2 CCDs...you make it seem like it was a choice on AMD's part and that they have a 16 core ccd that they're just not choosing to use.

Anyone who bought a 12 or 16 core v-cache CPU probably did so because they wanted the best gaming performance, but still needed more than 8 cores for other work....not because they really wanted the 8 core chip and just couldn't wait.....this seems like you're just coming up with really unrealistic hypothetical situations and then blaming AMD for these unrealistic, hypothetical situations

Exactly.

With the above logic, was everybody who didn't wait for the 7800X3D burned? Was I burned with the 7700X? Hell no. I knew an X3D version was in development, and I knew I wasn't gonna get one. I just wanted to test and get used to the platform, and have something half decent before Zen 5, or 6 or whatever. I'm happy with my choice.

The release of a new CPU doesn't make the one you bought any worse.

 

[Gica]

A small test of the extremes, off and on-topic
13500 + RTX 3070 Ti
Test 1: Default CPU - 6P cores /12 threads + 8E cores/8threads
Test 2: 4P cores/8 threads, E cores disabled
Graphic Score:
Test 1: 14,784
Test 2: 14,738
Difference: ZERO!!!

Why ontopic? Because no one tests X3D with video cards used by the vast majority of owners of systems used (also) for gaming.
It is clear that X3D offers the best experience for premium systems, intended exclusively for gaming, but I have high doubts that it helps budget systems. I would bet that a 7700X would be more useful for them, because it offers the same gaming experience with weaker video cards (than 4080/4090) but more computing power in other applications, at a lower price.

 

[theglaze]

How did AMD "burn" impatient adopters with the 7900x3d? It was announced exactly when the 7800x3d was going to be released, if someone couldn't wait a month that's on them...you make it seem like AMD did something nefarious

AMD did not provide press/reviewers with samples of the 7900X3D, but the praise for the 7950X3D was abundant. Joe Fragger catches word of that new X3D, tries to buy it, but it's sold out and settles for the 7900X3D. Joe thinks, "It can't be that much worse, right?" but has no resources to validate that. He has to trust AMD marketing...

It's not a 'made up' scenario. A few regulars within online communities I frequent have told that story. I'm also the proud owner a 7600X, which I bought used from a dude at great price during the week new X3D's launched. I asked him why he was selling, and he directly said "I have a 7950X3D on delivery. I don't need the cores and know the 7800X3D will be cheaper, but I don't want to wait."

Most people on tech forums like this are not impulse buyers. We research the hell out of what we want to buy. Follow the news and rumours of what's coming. But we are the minority.

I was planning on flipping this 7600X for a 7800X3D, but to be honest, the performance of this 6 core is super impressive. And I think the 7800X3D boost has an "artificial" limitation, AMD is sandbagging it, and I'm patient enough to wait for Ryzen 8800XD.

 

[Black Hades]

Excellent, the ridiculous power usage trend is falling!
Mrs. Lisa Su tear down that (power) wall!!

 

[adilazimdegilx]

The 7800X3D is artificially capped to a maximum frequency of 5050 MHz on each core, probably to protect the higher-end X3D CPUs, which are allowed to boost higher. For example, the 7950X3D will boost up to 5250 MHz easily with light loads on it's 3D VCache chiplet.​

If this is true, it is very sad. I was about to go fo direct-die water cooling this CPU with hope for at least 5.2GHz.

External clock overclocking still works and it looks like it's better than how it was with 5800x3d. 5.4-5.5ghz single core speeds seems very possible. Of course the big disadvantage is mobos with external clock supports are few and expensive.
Source: there are already youtube channels tested with eclock

 

[gasolin]

Where is 7900 ?

https://tpucdn.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-7800x3d/images/efficiency-multithread.png

At the top

 

[mkppo]

I don't understand why the OS reinstall issue is being talked about so much. If I understand correctly, it really only affects people who are moving from the 7950/7900X3D to the 7800X3D which are a pretty small subset of people because they already knew what the 7800X3D would perform like and the cost as well but went with the higher X3D parts anyway.

7800X3D legit puts intel to shame in gaming since it's faster on average and MUCH faster in games that actually need a fast CPU (simulation games) while consuming less than half the power. Thanks W1zz for the wide subset of games, I really appreciate it. Unlike GN, who test 6 games with half of them old and doesn't suit Zen 4, then saying ehh it's a toss up but X3D wins big in some games.

The wider the subset of games, the better the 7800X3D starts to look.

 

[bug]

I don't understand why the OS reinstall issue is being talked about so much. If I understand correctly, it really only affects people who are moving from the 7950/7900X3D to the 7800X3D which are a pretty small subset of people because they already knew what the 7800X3D would perform like and the cost as well but went with the higher X3D parts anyway.

Because it's a weird issue. It's just a driver handling two closely related CPUs. It is not supposed to require an OS reinstall to work.

7800X3D legit puts intel to shame in gaming since it's faster on average and MUCH faster in games that actually need a fast CPU (simulation games) while consuming less than half the power. Thanks W1zz for the wide subset of games, I really appreciate it. Unlike GN, who test 6 games with half of them old and doesn't suit Zen 4, then saying ehh it's a toss up but X3D wins big in some games.

Faster than what? Outside of games this isn't faster than a 13600k. And you can run Raptor Lake with constrained TDP at pretty much the same performance levels. That doesn't make 7800X3D's efficiency any less impressive, tho,

The wider the subset of games, the better the 7800X3D starts to look.

Yes, if you look at games-only (which what you should, if you're considering this), this is looking really good.

 

[Taraquin]

This looks like the most tempting upgrade Really impressive efficiency, gamingperformance etc

 

[Dragokar]

Regarding the core parking Bug you can use CPMinCores from Microsoft to prevent that problem until there is an official fix.

CPMinCores

CPMinCores specifies the minimum percentage of logical processors (in terms of all logical processors that are enabled on the system within each NUMA node) that can be placed in the un-parked state at any given time.

learn.microsoft.com

Toms Hardware used that Tool as well because they had trouble even after a fresh install. My bet ist a Board/agesa based bug in combination with the driver.

 

[MarsM4N]

?

AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Review - The Best Gaming CPU

AMD's Ryzen 7 7800X3D is everything that gamers want: eight fast cores, in a single CCD, with 3D VCache stacked on top at a price point of $450. In our review we can confirm that 7800X3D is indeed the fastest gaming CPU available, beating Intel's 13900K and even the 7950X3D.

www.techpowerup.com

Well, I guess what he means is a Frametime Chart to display frametime consistency and expose frametime spikes. 0.1% or 0.01% lows are just "average lows" and do not expose micro stutter.

GamersNexus included it in his review and f.e. the frametimes in Cyberpunk 2077 are way smoother on the Intel 13700K than on the 7800X3D. Not really a noticable difference "in game" (if spikes aren't too crazy), but a measurable.

 

[Space Lynx]

Well, I guess what he means is a Frametime Chart to display frametime consistency and expose frametime spikes. 0.1% or 0.01% lows are just "average lows" and do not expose micro stutter.

GamersNexus included it in his review and f.e. the frametimes in Cyberpunk 2077 are way smoother on the Intel 13700K than on the 7800X3D. Not really a noticable difference "in game" (if spikes aren't too crazy), but a measurable.

I mean he can get that chart from other reviewers... W1zz does plenty. I watch and read about 7 of the major reviewers on new hardware launch, they all do a little something different, which I think is great.

Another thing GamesNexus does different is FFXIV Endwalker, my all time favorite game. Which is great that he still benches that, no one else does. On the same hand, W1zz benches some games that others don't, and I think that is great too.

 

[JustBenching]

Well, I guess what he means is a Frametime Chart to display frametime consistency and expose frametime spikes. 0.1% or 0.01% lows are just "average lows" and do not expose micro stutter.

GamersNexus included it in his review and f.e. the frametimes in Cyberpunk 2077 are way smoother on the Intel 13700K than on the 7800X3D. Not really a noticable difference "in game" (if spikes aren't too crazy), but a measurable.

Funny thing he is using medium settings no RT which is very light on the CPU. I don't dare to imagine frametimes at ultra +RT on the 3d. 8 cores are not enough for todays heaviest of games sadly