AMD Ryzen 7000 "Zen 4" Launch Date and Lineup Revealed, Spectacular AM4 Rumor Surfaces

[TheLostSwede]

After a few emails from several adresses (not specifically the vendor in this topic) i'm going to double down on what I've said

Intel is more likely October.

 

[InVasMani]

So AMD pump faked and pretty much caught us all. Hell I originally thought AMD might do this, but then after a while began to rule out the idea based on all the rhetoric from AMD and tech sites. They kept their cards close on this one if accurate.

 

[cb88]

Not at all. It simply indicates AMD realized anything that's not high-end doesn't need DDR5 and decided to pair the chiplet with a DDR4 IO die.

For the record, there will be bad dies and more of them at first. But simply announcing there will be DDR4 enabled Zen4 is not an indicator of the yields.

The DDR4 IOD is currently still 14nm Global Foundries which means they can offload IOD supply to somewhere other than TSMC for the AM4 chips. AMD can basically make as much stuff at Global Foundries as they want.

AM5 requires the 6nm TSMC IOD... which is supply constrained.

Zen 4 with vcache + DDR4 IOD probably makes extremely good sense sales wise.

 

[Dr_b_]

Until there is some clear perceptible benefit to DDR5, for example, if there were 64GB DIMMS, or price parity, or substantively better perf, does it make sense to migrate to it immediately, going to wait on DDR5/AM5 for a while till prices come down and bugs get worked out, having a ZEN4 option on an existing AM4 is fantastic. Is there a record for how long a socket has received compatible CPU upgrades?

 

[R0H1T]

The LGA 775 lasted a fair bit IIRC, of course AM3+ also had a great lifetime.

 

[TechLurker]

I doubt that. TSMC's 5nm is a very mature node at this point. Not as high yielding as 7nm but problably still very good.
I think if AMD goes this route they wont bring high performance chiplets to AM4 like those on 7950X. Im guessing these AM4 parts could be something like R5 7500/7600 level at best. Also it's very likely that if that's the case then 5800X3D will remain the fastest AM4 gaming focused CPU having both core and cache advantage over these Zen4 chiplets.

There's no reason why AMD cannot offer performance Zen4 on socket AM4, unless there wasn't enough performance uplift at the high end to warrant replacing the former flagship 5800XT-5950XT chips.

Assuming there's enough uplift to warrant upgrading the whole AM4 desktop stack to either "6000 Desktop Series" or "5X25 / 5X75 Half-step Series", the AM5 versions would still have the overall advantage of faster DDR5 speeds as those mature, and extra future-proofing now that storage is getting onboard the bandwidth PCIe train with ever faster R/W speeds, and with GPUs slowly following behind (whether it's mandatory like the low-end Radeons reliant on hard-wired 8x 4.0 or future 5.0, or optional).

Otherwise, like you said, it could result in a mixed Zen3/Zen4 offering on AM4, similar to how there was some oddball mixed Zen1+ and Zen2 in AMD's earlier Ryzen offerings (some of the earlier APUs when they were a version behind, and one of the more recent Mobile versions; with older Zen2 on Even-Numbers (400/600/800) and Zen3 on Odd-Numbers (500/700/900)).

 

[freeagent]

Zen 4 on AM4.. I’d be down for that if it gives my 5900X a solid spank..

 

[R0H1T]

There's no reason why AMD cannot offer performance Zen4 on socket AM4, unless there wasn't enough performance uplift at the high end to warrant replacing the former flagship 5800XT-5950XT chips.

Assuming there's enough uplift to warrant upgrading the whole AM4 desktop stack to either "6000 Desktop Series" or "5X25 / 5X75 Half-step Series", the AM5 versions would still have the overall advantage of faster DDR5 speeds as those mature, and extra future-proofing now that storage is getting onboard the bandwidth PCIe train with ever faster R/W speeds, and with GPUs slowly following behind (whether it's mandatory like the low-end Radeons reliant on hard-wired 8x 4.0 or future 5.0, or optional).

Otherwise, like you said, it could result in a mixed Zen3/Zen4 offering on AM4, similar to how there was some oddball mixed Zen1+ and Zen2 in AMD's earlier Ryzen offerings (some of the earlier APUs when they were a version behind, and one of the more recent Mobile versions; with older Zen2 on Even-Numbers (400/600/800) and Zen3 on Odd-Numbers (500/700/900)).

There isn't, I don't see AMD making anything DDR4 based competing with 5800x3d with a backported zen4 especially given the lackluster IPC "indications" thus far!

 

[Tomorrow]

There's no reason why AMD cannot offer performance Zen4 on socket AM4

No technical reason. But they may not want to cannibalize AM5 sales. If people can get Zen4 high performance parts on AM4 then there would be no incentive to get AM5. Tho it's also true that AMD makes much less from chipsets sold and DDR5 (none) compared to CPU's. And AM4 has a huge install base.
So i can see the arguments for and against this rumor.

 

[cb88]

There isn't, I don't see AMD making anything DDR4 based competing with 5800x3d with a backported zen4 especially given the lackluster IPC "indications" thus far!

Yeah there is... Zen 4 would obviously replace the Zen 3d offering then AMD will just quit making Zen 3 dies... just as they have done for all the other recent advanced node dies. I won't hurt that it will acutally be faster than Zen 3 also (especially if they release it as a vcache version).

 

[waltc]

Lisa Su made it clear that AM4 wasn't dead and that it had a long life ahead of it. Read from that what you may....

 

[INFERNUS]

If this is indeed true, I wonder if the 400 series board's would get support to. I only read PCIe Gen4. It would make more sense to just add more 3D v-cache on the 5900x/5950x CPU's and bring them out to the market. I have a 5950x but I would get another with more cache

 

[Veseleil]

If this is indeed true, I wonder if the 400 series board's would get support to. I only read PCIe Gen4. It would make more sense to just add more 3D v-cache on the 5900x/5950x CPU's and bring them out to the market. I have a 5950x but I would get another with more cache

Sometimes when I think about upgrades (not that I need any TBH, rarely using even what i have ATM), I see myself preserving my B450 based setup as it is, and making another one on X570. I felt that it would be enough to just put in a nice Zen 3 CPU, probably some 8 core 3D V-cache, or 12, 16 core part. And if this rumor is true, it might be even more viable thought after all. Eh, the beauty of choice.

 

[Tomorrow]

Extra cache has little point in 12 or 16 core parts as client workloads that scale past 8 cores rarely benefit from the extra cache. Mostly compression/decompression and a few rare games that can use more than 8 cores.

 

[bug]

Until there is some clear perceptible benefit to DDR5, for example, if there were 64GB DIMMS, or price parity, or substantively better perf, does it make sense to migrate to it immediately, going to wait on DDR5/AM5 for a while till prices come down and bugs get worked out, having a ZEN4 option on an existing AM4 is fantastic. Is there a record for how long a socket has received compatible CPU upgrades?

There is clear benefit currently, but only in select scenarios, not across the board. Which why I like Intel's approach better: if you bought a high-end CPU, it doesn't automatically mean you want DDR5.
But again, the benefits of DDR5 are becoming apparent (at least for Intel), faster than any other RAM transition I can remember.

 

[Mussels]

If zen4 comes out on AM4 in any form (even if it's limited to 500 series chipsets for example) i'll shit my pants

The crazy part is i can actually see it as possible, with the modular design of their CPU's and their new push for backwards compatibility both technical support and motivation seem to be there

 

[Dr_b_]

If zen4 comes out on AM4 in any form (even if it's limited to 500 series chipsets for example) i'll shit my pants

The crazy part is i can actually see it as possible, with the modular design of their CPU's and their new push for backwards compatibility both technical support and motivation seem to be there

it will certainly be a great thing for those who dont want to make the investment in all new system components right away to see how things shake out with the new platform

 

[Minus Infinity]

Intel is more likely October.

Raptor Lake is paper launch then, real supply not until December. It's slipped just like Sapphire Rapids. Never ever trust an Intel timetable.

 

[Mussels]

it will certainly be a great thing for those who dont want to make the investment in all new system components right away to see how things shake out with the new platform

I'm recovering from gastro, so i'm hoping that by putting my previous statement in reverse order i can make this happen

 

[Melvis]

Possible Zen4 CPU on AM4. There's nothing inherently "AM5" about Zen4, afaik.

Your right thats what I meant to say was Zen4 not AM5, me was tired.

 

[529th]

So AM4 X570 will get another CPU drop-in upgrade with Zen4 cores? If so I'd suggest to wait for a mature bios release for it

 

[BlaezaLite]

I'm praying it's not exclusive to 500 series boards. Us 400 series owners want in on the fun too! They should make it accessible to all AM4 owners if they want to make more money!

 

[btk2k2]

If AMD are going to release Zen 4 on AM4 then I would expect it to a) only be lower end parts like the 7600X and 7800X (not sure how they would name them either, maybe sans X for AM4 or some other very clear identifier). I would also expect it to be after the AM5 offering so AMD can get the most from the early adopters.

 

[LuxZg]

Seems that everyone forgets that chips like 7950X may be limited by AM4 power limits.

So top-end Zen4 is unlikely on AM4.

I can envision something like this:
- Zen 4 plus different I/O die for DDR4/AM4
- targeting platform cost unreachable by 7xxx DDR5
- naming could be 6xxx as that would show it's tier below 7xxx
- likewise no confusion with existing Zen3 lineup, as only laptops have 6xxx
- most probably without iGPU same as current high end AM4

But I do expect this as sort of half-gen to help the transition, and I do hope that AM5 will get R3 and APUs before Q2 2023, otherwise Intel will stomp all over them. They HAVE to have a response to next gen Intel across the range, because they already lack proper response for Alder Lake in some segments, and Raptor Lake will be hard to counter with just 4 SKUs in 7xxx series and trying to plug holes with 5xxx (desktop) and 6xxx (laptop) against even a minor revision let alone a good showing of Raptor Lake.

Well, just 2 more months until full reveal, or so they say

 

[Mussels]

Seems that everyone forgets that chips like 7950X may be limited by AM4 power limits.

So top-end Zen4 is unlikely on AM4.

I can envision something like this:
- Zen 4 plus different I/O die for DDR4/AM4
- targeting platform cost unreachable by 7xxx DDR5
- naming could be 6xxx as that would show it's tier below 7xxx
- likewise no confusion with existing Zen3 lineup, as only laptops have 6xxx
- most probably without iGPU same as current high end AM4

But I do expect this as sort of half-gen to help the transition, and I do hope that AM5 will get R3 and APUs before Q2 2023, otherwise Intel will stomp all over them. They HAVE to have a response to next gen Intel across the range, because they already lack proper response for Alder Lake in some segments, and Raptor Lake will be hard to counter with just 4 SKUs in 7xxx series and trying to plug holes with 5xxx (desktop) and 6xxx (laptop) against even a minor revision let alone a good showing of Raptor Lake.

Well, just 2 more months until full reveal, or so they say

If we get a single CCX variant of zen 4, or even just some zen4 APU models it'll be a fantastic win for the platform, we dont need the top core count stuff (Hah, opposite to Zen 1 days)


I don't think AMD wants to discontinue B550 just yet, with the sheer ease BIOS flashing new CPU support onto older boards these days, they can keep B550 alive longer instead of trying to make a B650/A620 out of the gates