AMD Ryzen Discussion Thread.

[Tatty_Two]

That's interesting, although when overclocking the 1500 will be better than the 1500x & 1600x in price/perf terms, similarly to the 1700 compared to 1700x & 1800x. They all overclock roughly the same.

A 1500 paired with a B350 board would be epic performance for not a lot of dollar!

That's exactly what I was considering, well a 1400 or 1500X coupled with a decent B350 board, you would get both in the UK for less than the price of a 7700k, in fact you could almost get 16GB of 3200mhz DDR4 with your 1400 and B350 for the price of a 7700k. 16 threads would be a total waste for me currently.

 

[NdMk2o1o]

That's exactly what I was considering, well a 1400 or 1500X coupled with a decent B350 board, you would get both in the UK for less than the price of a 7700k, in fact you could almost get 16GB of 3200mhz DDR4 with your 1400 and B350 for the price of a 7700k. 16 threads would be a total waste for me currently.

I'm holding out for 1600 non x, be nice to have 12 threads for the cost of an i5, I can't believe how much Intel have increased prices, when I bought my 2500k and after that my 3570k they were £180 with the i7's being around 250-260!! This generation you'll pay 250 for the i5 and about 340 for a k i7

 

[Dethroy]

While you can easily OC an R7 1700/R5 1600 to reach the same clocks as an R7 1700X/R5 1600X, you will loose all power saving features though. That's why I'm starting to think, I'd favor the X models myself. The small additional cost may as well be zilch if you consider the amount of time you'll keep the CPU.

 

[infrared]

AFAIK there is no R5 1500 non-X SKU.

Ah ok, I was going off an old chart of the ryzen line-up, looks like they decided not to bother :/
https://www.techpowerup.com/230916/pricing-of-entire-amd-ryzen-lineup-revealed

 

[Tatty_Two]

I'm holding out for 1600 non x, be nice to have 12 threads for the cost of an i5, I can't believe how much Intel have increased prices, when I bought my 2500k and after that my 3570k they were £180 with the i7's being around 250-260!! This generation you'll pay 250 for the i5 and about 340 for a k i7

£219.99 from CCL ..........................................

https://www.cclonline.com/product/2...-Processor-with-Wraith-Spire-Cooler-/CPU0449/

 

[NdMk2o1o]

£219.99 from CCL ..........................................

https://www.cclonline.com/product/2...-Processor-with-Wraith-Spire-Cooler-/CPU0449/

Hadn't noticed they were available for pre-order already, £220 seems a very reasonable price

 

[Ungari]

Hadn't noticed they were available for pre-order already, £220 seems a very reasonable price

What's interesting about pre-ordering is that you have a chance to get a higher binned chip that was downgraded just to fill inventory!

 

[Tatty_Two]

But you may be paying top dollar for it unless you can find other sites with them and make price comparisons.

 

[NdMk2o1o]

I can't order until the end of April which should be ideal as reviews will be long out by then and motherboard's will have had a couple of BIOS revisions etc so seems like a good time to buy, hoping the RX 580's will be out around that time as well

 

[Ungari]

But you may be paying top dollar for it unless you can find other sites with them and make price comparisons.

Since we already know the SRP, you can be certain you are getting the best deal straight away as none will go below that.

 

[notb]

I can only speculate that the infinity fabric helps with adding up the memory controllers as well.

There are a few more issues in sharing RAM between CPUs which seem to be really ignored, but I'll concentrate on one (I guess it should be obvious for physicists / electronic engineers):

Speed of electric signal is finite.

We are used to the idea that it is so large we don't have to think about it.
But there really is a reason why RAM slots are so close to the CPU, that we are getting coolers that block a RAM slot.

Just to give you an example on some very rough numbers, lets assume that:
- the distance in wiring between CPU and the "other" RAM is 20cm (possible on a large dual-CPU board),
- the speed of signal is 2.8 * 10^8 m/s,
- there are no additional slow downs.

The signal would need around 1.5ns. That would give our new and shiny DDR4-3000 latencies of DDR2-533. Meditate on that for a while.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Since we already know the SRP, you can be certain you are getting the best deal straight away as none will go below that.

You are not factoring in some retailers limited availability launch price hikes, I pre-ordered my current CPU 10 days before launch, I thought it was a decent deal, seems at launch some others were offering it at £30 less, I mean, I can only speak for the UK but amazingly within a few days after launch some Ryzen 7 prices have gone down by £30 already, indicating to me at least some hiked the price.

 

[pantherx12]

I don't think it's adding up memory channels... they call intel an octo, but it's clearly not... wondering if they are doing the same with amd...

Maybe its just something as simple as ram slots? Definitely ambiguous.

There are a few more issues in sharing RAM between CPUs which seem to be really ignored, but I'll concentrate on one (I guess it should be obvious for physicists / electronic engineers):

Speed of electric signal is finite.

We are used to the idea that it is so large we don't have to think about it.
But there really is a reason why RAM slots are so close to the CPU, that we are getting coolers that block a RAM slot.

Just to give you an example on some very rough numbers, lets assume that:
- the distance in wiring between CPU and the "other" RAM is 20cm (possible on a large dual-CPU board),
- the speed of signal is 2.8 * 10^8 m/s,
- there are no additional slow downs.

The signal would need around 1.5ns. That would give our new and shiny DDR4-3000 latencies of DDR2-533. Meditate on that for a while.

Oh I know about the physics I just like to have unrealistic expectations of AMD only to have them dashed so I can repeatedly root for the little guy!

That and I want to see some genuine price wars.

 

[Ungari]

You are not factoring in some retailers limited availability launch price hikes, I pre-ordered my current CPU 10 days before launch, I thought it was a decent deal, seems at launch some others were offering it at £30 less, I mean, I can only speak for the UK but amazingly within a few days after launch some Ryzen 7 prices have gone down by £30 already, indicating to me at least some hiked the price.

Are you saying that retailers have been selling Ryzen for less than AMD's published SRP?

 

[cdawall]

Are you saying that retailers have been selling Ryzen for less than AMD's published SRP?

Microcenter is.

 

[Ungari]

Microcenter is.

Microcenter does not exist in the UK and my understanding is those combo CPU/Mainboard deals are available only for in-store pick-up unless there has been some change in policy.

 

[BiggieShady]

Speed of electric signal is finite.

Yeah, unlike all those other phenomena that have infinite speeds ... wait, I think I can explain that smiley at the end of your statement

 

[Ungari]

I'm holding out for 1600 non x, be nice to have 12 threads for the cost of an i5, I can't believe how much Intel have increased prices, when I bought my 2500k and after that my 3570k they were £180 with the i7's being around 250-260!! This generation you'll pay 250 for the i5 and about 340 for a k i7

I think XFR will only improve and the price difference between the 1600 and the X is worth getting 4100Mhz and possibly higher clocks with future microcode updates!

 

[cdawall]

Microcenter does not exist in the UK and my understanding is those combo CPU/Mainboard deals are available only for in-store pick-up unless there has been some change in policy.

Correct not my fault the EU pays more lol

 

[Tatty_Two]

Are you saying that retailers have been selling Ryzen for less than AMD's published SRP?

No, I am saying at launch they were price hiking which was my original point, your response talked about none going below SRP, mine talked about all those that go above it, it is rarely an exact science translating a US $ price into a UK price and often there is some "artistic license" added for good measure you seemed to think if the price was set then that's what they would appear at on launch, as I said, I can't speak for anywhere else but the UK but often that is not the case here, hence why pre ordering can cost you more with some retailers.

Example: Most on line retailers launched the Ryzen 7 1700 @ £329.99, a the odd one at £319.99 some of them are under £300 already.

 

[wurschti]

I didn't read every post here ofc, but:
1- Ryzen was overhyped, both from AMD and from the community, this led to disappointment and death (lol no one died)
2- This is just the first attempt to make something better for the users. 8 core at the price of 4? You should be happy. Yeah they don't deliver the best clocks, but performance per watt per clocks per price is awesome. Period.
3- I was a little underwhelmed when I saw lower than 4GHz stock frequencies. I would have rather had a 120W 4GHz CPU with 4.2-4.5GHz Turbo. That is perfectly explainable. But I believe one year later we will have that.
4- We needed Ryzen. It's not the hero we want, it's the hero we need. Intel's monopoly has to end. I really hope Qualcomm will join the x86 CPU race and we can have more competitors, each of them offering something for every usage. I wouldn't mind an x86 platform with low cost and low price for my HTPC needs, or a high performance rig for gaming or rendering.

But now, it's all on the usage, it's just (for now, only with Ryzen 7, because Ryzen 5 could change this):

a. low budget gaming - Intel CPU (think G4560)
b. better budget gaming - Intel CPU (think i5, i7)
c. high overall performance at a good budget - AMD CPU (think 1700-1800X)
d. highest possible performance - Intel CPU (think 6950X)

This will change of course. AMD has not yet released the R3s and R5s, and they also have a 16-core up their sleeve.

 

[NdMk2o1o]

Correct not my fault the EU pays more lol

The UK isn't EU

 

[cdawall]

The UK isn't EU

Ah that's right you guys made it do we can't abbreviate Europe anymore. Thanks guys thanks...

 

[Ungari]

I didn't read every post here ofc, but:
1- Ryzen was overhyped, both from AMD and from the community, this led to disappointment and death (lol no one died)
2- This is just the first attempt to make something better for the users. 8 core at the price of 4? You should be happy. Yeah they don't deliver the best clocks, but performance per watt per clocks per price is awesome. Period.
3- I was a little underwhelmed when I saw lower than 4GHz stock frequencies. I would have rather had a 120W 4GHz CPU with 4.2-4.5GHz Turbo. That is perfectly explainable. But I believe one year later we will have that.
4- We needed Ryzen. It's not the hero we want, it's the hero we need. Intel's monopoly has to end. I really hope Qualcomm will join the x86 CPU race and we can have more competitors, each of them offering something for every usage. I wouldn't mind an x86 platform with low cost and low price for my HTPC needs, or a high performance rig for gaming or rendering.

But now, it's all on the usage, it's just (for now, only with Ryzen 7, because Ryzen 5 could change this):

a. low budget gaming - Intel CPU (think G4560)
b. better budget gaming - Intel CPU (think i5, i7)
c. high overall performance at a good budget - AMD CPU (think 1700-1800X)
d. highest possible performance - Intel CPU (think 6950X)

This will change of course. AMD has not yet released the R3s and R5s, and they also have a 16-core up their sleeve.

1) I disagree that Ryzen was over-hyped by either AMD or the community, and if anyone experienced disappointment it was due to unrealistic expectations.
2) I also don't subscribe to "higher clocks are the single most important measure of performance gains" and neither does AMD in both their GPU and CPU philosophies.
3) I totally agree here. I expected 4200Mhz and believe that there is an artificially imposed ceiling in the microcode that prevents XFR and manual OC from going higher at this time. See 1500X with it's 200Mhz XFR.
4) Yes we need Ryzen, and it looks like R3 has been cancelled as the 1400 is 4 Core is an R5.

 

[Slizzo]

3) I totally agree here. I expected 4200Mhz and believe that there is an artificially imposed ceiling in the microcode that prevents XFR and manual OC from going higher at this time. See 1500X with it's 200Mhz XFR.

Actually, I believe it's more an issue with two different things:

1. New chip on a brand new process.
2. Using Samsungs LPP process. It's not meant to be a super fast chip, it's meant to be an efficient one. Thus the reason it appears that Ryzen consumes less energy than Broadwell-E.