Anyone with true HDDs still around here?

[AusWolf]

To echo @OliverQueen, I have no reason to believe that consumer grade HDDs are substantially less reliable than enterprise drives under consumer-use-case conditions. I do know that SMR drives are shit (in general, not particularly with regard to reliability), and I wouldn't trust the cheapest drives, particularly those from Seagate, but in the general case whatever you buy will most likely work just fine. What you can get from spending a little more money, sometimes, is a longer warranty, but when we discuss reliability, what we're most worried about is the safety of your data, not of the disk.

That's just great because the 4 and 8 TB internal drives I have are both Seagate and SMR.

And it's right: I'm not afraid to lose a drive or two, because one can always buy a new one, but I wouldn't want to lose my data.

This is why one should always assume the drive will fail when planning a storage scheme, even though it probably won't fail any time soon.

If you have to choose between parity and back up, I'd pick back up. Parity is about uptime; parity alone won't save you if e.g. you accidentally delete a bunch of files. With a proper back up, you can grab yesterday's, or last week's, archive of those files. You've mentioned you might switch to Linux. If you do, Vorta's a very easy GUI option for automated backups on any schedule you like. They are encrypted by default.

As long as I'm rambling on, I'll also clarify that when I referenced "refurbished" enterprise drives I actually meant the "manufacturer recertified" drives on the linked site--or elsewhere; it's not like I'm an affiliate; I just find that particular vendor trustworthy. "Seller refurbished drives" are a different animal, and IMO, a bit riskier.

Backing up is not a problem. I do it manually quite often, so relying on automated tools isn't necessary - I'm quite OCD with these things.

With that said, most of my data is in a single place, I only store family photos on three separate drives. Buying two of the same drives and setting them up with parity would make sure I have a backup of everything.

Sounds about right.

I think that's what I'll do once I've saved up a bit for such extra expenses.

 

[csendesmark]

got a brand new 1 TB HDD

Why only 1TB? Seems kind of odd.

22TB HC570 - NAS
16TB HC550 - main rig
10TB WD Gold - NAS
6TB Seagate Skyhawk - "offsite" backup

 

[leonavis]

I got an external backup-drive, 5TB WD Black P10. Quite fast, I was surprised. And got it rather cheap.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I think that's what I'll do once I've saved up a bit for such extra expenses.

If your going to spend that much money, it would be better to figure out how much space you need and get one of these;
https://www.amazon.com/ORICO-External-Enclosure-Aluminum-Clear-WS400RU3/dp/B0C36FYYXZ
Then following up with smaller drives you can setup in a RAID5. As I don't know your experience level with RAID arrays is, I'll give you a starting pointer: With 4drive RAID5 you get need to buy drive large enough to account for the total space need minus one drive as one total drives worth of space will be used for striping data and parity info across the array.

So for example if you need 30+TB of usable space, buy 6x12TB because 12TB x 4 - 1 = 36TB - 14% for formatting will leave you just under 31TB of usable space. The extra drives would be spares. This is just an example, but should be enough to help you understand how RAID5 works. RAID10(1+0) is also an option but cuts effective usable space in half.

With one of the units below, you have 5 drive bays and thus RAID5 for 30TB of total space would need smaller drives. 10TB x 5 - 1 = 40TB - 14% formatting = 34.4TB usable space.
https://www.amazon.com/Syba-Swappable-External-Enclosure-Windows/dp/B07MD2LPNW

Lots of potential options and price ranges to match. You just need to figure out what you need. I generally recommend the units with 5 drive bays and smaller drives as the overall cost tends to be lower.

 

[Kodehawa]

I have a 1TB HDD storing just random data I don't need to access fast like images and videos. That's about it, it's been with me for like 8 years now.

 

[Synthwave]

Yeah. Like a shitton² of people.

 

[AusWolf]

If your going to spend that much money, it would be better to figure out how much space you need and get one of these;
https://www.amazon.com/ORICO-External-Enclosure-Aluminum-Clear-WS400RU3/dp/B0C36FYYXZ
Then following up with smaller drives you can setup in a RAID5. As I don't know your experience level with RAID arrays is, I'll give you a starting pointer: With 4drive RAID5 you get need to buy drive large enough to account for the total space need minus one drive as one total drives worth of space will be used for striping data and parity info across the array.

So for example if you need 30+TB of usable space, buy 6x12TB because 12TB x 4 - 1 = 36TB - 14% for formatting will leave you just under 31TB of usable space. The extra drives would be spares. This is just an example, but should be enough to help you understand how RAID5 works. RAID10(1+0) is also an option but cuts effective usable space in half.

With one of the units below, you have 5 drive bays and thus RAID5 for 30TB of total space would need smaller drives. 10TB x 5 - 1 = 40TB - 14% formatting = 34.4TB usable space.
https://www.amazon.com/Syba-Swappable-External-Enclosure-Windows/dp/B07MD2LPNW

Lots of potential options and price ranges to match. You just need to figure out what you need. I generally recommend the units with 5 drive bays and smaller drives as the overall cost tends to be lower.

Actually, I've been thinking about getting a USB HDD dock, but your suggestion, a USB HDD dock with RAID support is even better (and costs the same)!

To be honest, I've never had a RAID array in my life, but I know what the different numbers mean. I think RAID 5 would be overkill for my needs, but a 2-disk dock in RAID 1 would be perfect. I don't need stellar read/write speeds, I just need to store my data reliably. I could do with a single, large-capacity drive, but there's always a chance for failure. If I understand correctly, with RAID 1, if one of the drives fail, you can just replace it and life goes on as normal. And the chance for both drives failing at the same time is minimal.

The only thing I don't quite get is if you replace the failed drive with a new one, then how will the system (or the dock) know which drive to mirror onto the other one.

 

[chrcoluk]

Mirror (2 drives) has the benefit less capital expenditure required, not just on drives but also on the bays, connectivity etc.
4 drives could be either raid 1+0 or a 4 drive raid6 (raidz2).
Both of the above have at least 50% overhead though, so the trade off for lower cost of entry.
I personally would not go above 8 drives for a raid6 setup, the main issue I consider is that its a very high cost of entry, e.g. 8 12tb WDC red plus drives at the price I paid for them would be about £2000. Thats just for the drives, not the supporting infrastructure.

Auswolf my personal NAS at home and most servers I use are raid1, its the lowest cost of entry for a redundant setup, some systems where performance is a factor it may be bumped to a 4 drive raid 10. If you do 4 drives, a 4 drive raid6 (raidz2) might be worth considering as well, as then any 2 drives can fail in that setup. My issue with wider 6+ drive raids, even though they offer lower redundancy overhead, they require a high capital investment and storage isnt cheap.

On reliability I personally treat lower rpm is more reliable, I have had more enterprise drives fail than consumer when in use, sadly large capacity drives are exclusively 7200rpm, even the ones that advertised as 5400rpm. So moving forward I will only buy helium 7200rpm drives.

 

[64K]

Backing up is not a problem. I do it manually quite often, so relying on automated tools isn't necessary - I'm quite OCD with these things.

You're probably not as OCD about it as me my friend. I keep all of my important documents, pics, videos and files on both my laptops, my desktop, two USB sticks and two USB sticks in my bank safe deposit box and the vault is seriously fire proof. Anything short of a nuclear war and I won't be losing my stuff and this is coming from someone that never lost a storage drive and only one USB stick in my entire life.

It astounds me that even today some people don't make a backup of things that are so important to them. I have a family member that just won't bother. She just doesn't seem to get it.

 

[lexluthermiester]

but a 2-disk dock in RAID 1 would be perfect.

Ah ok. The following might suit your need then(switched over to the Amazon.uk site);

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Aluminum-Bay-RAID-Enclosure-Tool-Free-Black/dp/B0DCZB849Y

That enclosure plus two 12TB or 14TB drives would be a solid storage setup for RAID1.

There's also this one. Bit more expensive, but also Orico quality.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ORICO-External-Enclosure-Aluminum-Storage-9528RU3/dp/B09DYSLWHR

 

[inquisitor1]

Bought 6x 20TB HDDs for the storage array for my cluster.

NAS at home has 5x 20TB HDDs for the storage array

SAN has 4x 18TB HDDs for the storage array.

all new drives or did you buy a used pulled from servers that many places sell?

 

[Solaris17]

all new drives or did you buy a used pulled from servers that many places sell?

Brand new. I wont run used storage.

 

[thesmokingman]

Bought 6x 20TB HDDs for the storage array for my cluster.

NAS at home has 5x 20TB HDDs for the storage array

SAN has 4x 18TB HDDs for the storage array.

Serious S-Rank level hoarder!

I kid though I'm only at about B-Rank hoarder, shrugs.

 

[Solaris17]

Serious S-Rank level hoarder!

I kid though I'm only at about B-Rank hoarder, shrugs.

Yes! Its not all what it seems thankfully.

All of the data arrays are behind an SSD cache tier. I dont rely on HDD I/O entirely.

The usable capacity of the data tier is less, since im either using RAID10 or in the case of my cluster Storage spaces direct, its pooled with redundancy so im not using a 120TB volume. Its more around 40TB.

The NAS at home is much the same, RAID 10 and 1 hot spare. So only 20TB usable under the SSD cache tier. Most of which is holding videos I upload to youtube,

the SAN, well the SAN is the redundant pool storage. If I need to work on the array for the cluster, I will migrate everything to the SAN so I can play with disks, in that case it is 4x 18TB usable, whatever that math is.

so im not over here filling like 200TB of space, just a lot of disk failure protection.

 

[Frick]

I dont rely on HDD I/O entirely.

since im either using RAID10 or in the case of my cluster Storage spaces direct, its pooled with redundancy
RAID 10 and 1 hot spare. So only 20TB usable under the SSD cache tier-

the redundant pool storage

just a lot of disk failure protection.

All I see is a coward, afraid to live life on the edge.

(I'm not at all jealous)

 

[Solaris17]

All I see is a coward, afraid to live life on the edge.

(I'm not at all jealous)

haha trust me, im not trying to flex. I couldnt anyway after lifting this stuff my back doesnt allow it.

 

[Frick]

haha trust me, im not trying to flex. I couldnt anyway after lifting this stuff my back doesnt allow it.

Oh yeah no I know you aren't. You're being professional.

 

[DaemonForce]

Did the LEDs on yours degrade?

Not yet but could at any time. Had this since mid-2015 and it's the size of my 360. The USB ports are the only convenient charge ports for my controller too.

Brand new. I wont run used storage.

I get it, if it's a personal store and less than 100TB you're going to either have a small RAID or none, you need those disks to be right.
There's a threshold. I don't know where exactly but at some point you have so many disks that it no longer matters.
You pick a SKU or three and keep buying until it no longer makes sense to replace/resilver.
~10 years go by and some cute little SFF box with 4xsata replaces the ENTIRE array...

 

[Solaris17]

There's a threshold. I don't know where exactly but at some point you have so many disks that it no longer matters.

Maybe to some, but not to me. I will always get new. The only times I will use storage I might have lying around is if I am setting up a test system to test parts. Otherwise large format storage gets run until it dies or I trade it off.

In my case its only ever new because I prepare for the tub curve and need the RMA from %company% not %seller%. My arrays minus my NAS dont sit in the room next to me.

They sit currently about 600 miles away, they have been as far as 3000 miles away. I keep spares on hand for remote hands, but you bet they will be new so I can RMA the faulty one to maintain my spare. Its too much of an inconvenience to me running prod on used drives, moving that much data; be it a migration or recovery is a massive waste of my time if too many disks go down, and I bank on the tub curve. The next time I make it to the rack will be ~5yr from now.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I wont run used storage.

I'm ok with used drives. As long as the SMART data is intact, within acceptable ranges and it passes a surface test, I'd use preowned drives and they can be a solid bargain. Like you, not everyone agrees.

They sit currently about 600 miles away, they have been as far as 3000 miles away. I keep spares on hand for remote hands, but you bet they will be new so I can RMA the faulty one to maintain my spare. Its too much of an inconvenience to me running prod on used drives, moving that much data; be it a migration or recovery is a massive waste of my time if too many disks go down, and I bank on the tub curve. The next time I make it to the rack will be ~5yr from now.

Not too many people have that use-case-scenario. I know people that do it though.

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

Why only 1TB? Seems kind of odd.

22TB HC570 - NAS
16TB HC550 - main rig
10TB WD Gold - NAS
6TB Seagate Skyhawk - "offsite" backup

The bigger ones will be some other time.

 

[Solaris17]

I'm ok with used drives. As long as the SMART data is intact, within acceptable ranges and it passes a surface test, I'll use preowned drives and they can be a solid bargain. Like you, not everyone agrees.

Well lets not take it out of context. To be clear. if my board fails on a server, im not replacing the disks. If I upgrade my personal system I'll re-use the SSDs.

Im just not going out and buying 200TB worth of used drives to put in servers I have to buy a plane ticket to reach physically, is what I mean, specifically.

 

[neatfeatguy]

Couple of 4TB WD Reds (used as backups to the 4TB SSDs I replaced them with)
1 - 8TB WD Red (back up to the 4TB drives and also backup for pictures/videos)
The 4TBs are in the plex server. the 8TB gets backed up and removed and stored.

1 - 1TB WD Black.
1 - 500GB WD Blue
1 - 250GB WD Blue Scorpio (or is it 320GB? I can't remember and too lazy to check)
These spin drives are in my main system, except the small one. That's off to the side, just another back up for pictures/videos.

1 - 18TB Segate Exos on the way (recertified drive - this will be a backup for the backups)

Since this is asking about HDDs, I won't bother to list the few SSDs I'm using (aside from the mention of the ones I replaced the 4TB Reds with)

 

[Solaris17]

18TB Segate Exos

I ran Exos for a long time, thats actually what im running in my main arrays in the servers above. iv ran them for years on other platforms. They are right up there with WD Golds imo.

My san runs Toshibas

my nas at home runs HGSTs

I think of them the HGSTs are my fav, but the Exos are a close second, having worked with storage systems since forever, im not really big on NAS drives, even the 7200 rpm ones.

Few can bear the burden of the noise from the enterprise stuff though. but damn are they good disks!

 

[umeng2002]

For back-ups, yes. Gotta watch that bit-rot though.