Batman's CaseLabs Mercury S8 Work Computer

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Best price I've seen so far for the Apex 11 369€ from Germany

And i have thought it was going to be more expensive than the M11E

First time EVGA mobo buyer.

You have now become a Traitor

and do not make excuses because I'm not buying it

When you have an M.2 drive installed in the DIMM.2_1 port, the PCIe16X_1 drops to 8X."

If i am not mistaken that applies to the M11E too, i don't remember where i read it, maybe in the manual? no i don't think so because today i read the manual from A to Z and i didn't find anything about it

Since i got the M11E i have been waiting for a new Bios releases and now that it came out what did i get? Bios 0802 Beta Version and the worst part is that it doesn't have any significant improvement.

Sorry Asus but my Motherboard it is not a Guinea pig/Lab Rat to test your Beta Bios.

 

[E-curbi]

Sorry to disappoint you bro.

The VRM on the EVGA Z390 DARK is 17 phase (one phase for video out) using doublers, the Apex 11 uses a FAT-8 phase with no video phase - no video out.

I LOVE the direction ROG is going with the Apex 11 VRM section, but that’s about the only attribute that held my attention. I hate what they did to the DIMM.2 wiring both or one M.2 socket to the CPU lanes, when there’s only 16 lanes available for video to begin with. Also dislike the way ROG is not delivering the same beautiful aesthetics they offer for both the gorgeous new Rampage VI Extreme Omega X299 and Zenith Extreme Alpha X399 HEDT boards to our mainstream-enthusiast Z390 boards.

KnoxxMan, if ROG had dressed up the Maximus XI Extreme with that outstanding ROG PCIe shroud and VRM section of the Apex 11 and made the DIMM.2 functional through the PCH lanes, I would have already purchased the M11E and fallen in love with that motherboard, even if they wanted $649 for such a complete package - but they didn’t.

I keep asking, why doesn’t ROG offer an Extreme-Apex Hybrid board? Intel sells like +4000% 9900Ks vs 9800Xs (both 8-core CPUs), yet ROG discounts and abbreviates the functionality and aesthetics for the mainstream-enthusiast boards, why?

At least EVGA lends BOTH platforms equal attention in creative efforts and engineering.

Still believe the Z390 DARK offers greater functionality than the Apex 11 and the aesthetic is dramatically on point with my build theme.


Leo and Jacob at the EVGA Bellagio suite CES 2019, discussing all things darker than the darkest dark.

Every time the DARK board meets the camera, the images are never bright enough (just look below). The Z390 DARK motherboard most likely absorbs all the light in the room.

 

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Which board will win?

Dat topology Doe!

6cores 12threads 5.5Ghz just for fun! That voltage.

 

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Der8auer's CES 2019 video with more of that O11-Dynamic "ROG version" prototype from Lian Li, wider to accommodate a full size 120mm rear exhaust fan, very nice indeed. Might pick that up for the learning tertiary build later this year.

And the huge 14" x 14" ROG Dominus Extreme motherboard retail version built for Intel's upcoming 28-Core CPU. Gorgeous PCIe shroud. Maybe one day I'll own one of those.
Such a beautiful motherboard, and so Batman, sometimes I wish my work required extreme memory and CPU throughput simply to justify adding such impressive hardware to gaze upon and lust over all day long - yet it doesn't. My work apps benefit more from high clocks and low latency parts which means I'll be stuck with the Intel Ring Bus forever, ho hum.

Yea, could grab the new Rampage VI Extreme Omega board - simply beautiful, and a simple 9800X Skylake X 8-core high bin from Siliconlottery.com, already have a Gskill Trident Z 3200 14 Quad kit, so only (2) components needed to move to the X299 platform. Yet all I would gain is aesthetics and a fully-functional ROG DIMM.2 wired to the X299 chipset. Could also offset some of the Skylake X Mesh Bus's higher latency (slower responsiveness) by running the (2) Optane drives and utilizing Intel's Turbo Boost Max Technology 3.0, which works well for single and slightly threaded apps selecting your fastest single core or top (2) cores for quick bursts. Yet the clock speeds overall are so much lower than the amazing Coffee Lake CPUs. Siliconlottery is selling the 9800X high bins at 4.9Ghz, which means I could in all probability run a nice daily 5.0Ghz OS and all work apps stable, that wouldn't be so bad, yet all that extra expense for a PCIe shroud is difficult to rationalize.

Maybe next gen.


ROG Zenith Extreme Alpha and Rampage VI Extreme Omega boards also in this video

 

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Last minute prep clean up and cable management readying the CL frame for the EVGA Z390 DARK.

The stock Seasonic 8-pin CPU pwr cables are extremely long to facilitate tower builds. Luckily, CaseLabs created a hidden drive space under the mobo tray for 3.5in HDDs and 2.5in SSDs, so attempting to loop and tuck (red arrows below) the (2) crazy long 8-pins into that space to take up the slack. Planning to use both 8-pins even though functionally unnecessary since those (3) right-angle front power ports on the EVGA Z390 DARK are just begging to be connected and complete.

The (5) radiators will be remounted after the motherboard is in place and tested.

 

[E-curbi]

EVGA Z390 DARK motherboard will be arriving tomorrow morning. Woooooooooooooo!

New motherboard, that doesn't happen very often only my 5th custom mobo ever.

ROG Maximus V Extreme July 2012
ROG Maximus VIII Extreme December 2015
ROG Rampage V Edition 10 August 2016
ROG Maximus X Apex December 2017

And now ... for something completely different (than ROG).

Hey Knoxxypoo, all the shave soaps that arrived today have a German theme attached to them.

Vespers is apparently an homage to the extremely famous Goslar Christmas Market in Germany.
Doppelganger (I cannot add the umlaut with my keyboard, so sorry) gray is an homage to Creed Aventus and the dark red an homage to Penhaligon's Sartorial.

gf: Pen-hooligans

 

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The EVGA Z390 DARK just arrived! 7:30pm at night. UPS didn't even have the decency to ring the bell.

It's terrible waiting for beautiful hardware all day long, by the time it arrives, you're emotionally drained and exhausted. Geez.

Gotta take a cold shower then the unboxing, although just too tired to build tonight, will start fresh in the morning, at least UPS didn't lose it.

Wooooooooooooooooooooo!

 

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Staying up late and installing the DDR4 memory. Split the Trident Z 3200 14 Quad kit in half and removed the Gskill plastic white inserts, since there's no white in this Batman build.

 

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Optane M.2 install - clean and simple.

 

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First, I wet-buffed the 8086K 5.3Ghz bin delid's IHS with isopropyl alcohol, then I dry-buffed until the cotton tips were coming away clean.

For the 8086K CPU contact side I use a few quick bursts from the black Datavac blower, then a single short burst of CRC electrical contact cleaner hold for 10seconds then a long solid burst at distance from the Datavac blower once again.

No CRC on the motherboard pins, since the board is new.

I have used Datavacs to prep a motherboard socket and pins, but only from a distance of 24-30inches away, too close and the high air pressure might damage the pins.

 

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Redoing the 8086K clean up and prep from the beginning. Too much residual TIM - Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut and Noctua NT-H1 still remaining in that last pic.

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Some new owners of the Z390 DARK (in the EVGA forum) have already overclocked their Gskill 3200Mhz 14CAS Trident Z modules to 4400 17 and 4133 17. That one overclock still sticks in my mind; the 3200 14 to 4000 13.

Let's see which OC has the lowest latency in the responsiveness equation.

14/3200 x 1000 = 4.375 ... 3200 14 XMP out of the box

17/4133 x 1000 = 4.113 ... barely lower than the 3200 14 XMP

17/4400 x 1000 = 3.864 ... fantastic!

13/4000 x 1000 = 3.250 ... the winner by far!

This is why I think it's silly to purchase the 4400 and 4600 and 4800 super high speed XMP kits, when you can spend less than half on a 3200 14 Trident Z kit and overclock the modules. I'll set up that 4000Mhz 13CAS memory overclock as soon as I can, yet at the rate I'm building, that might not be until next Wednesday. lol

I guess the advantage to those out of the box super high speed kits is just that. XMP right out of the box, yet there's still no guarantee by Gskill your motherboard and CPU will be able to reach those performance numbers printed on the label.

addendum: been emailing an engineering friend of mine at Harris Corporation and he says some enthusiasts are buying the ultra high-speed memory kits when they already have the single motherboard listed on Gskill's guaranteed compatibility QVL list and they are running a high-binned CPU. In theory a highly binned CPU will also contain a higher quality memory controller, in theory. And those same enthusiasts are trying to achieve a certain memory benchmark number. OK, I get that.

But if your goal is similar to mine and wanting to achieve only the lowest latency within reason, highest responsiveness for your work or gaming rig, then to me it still sounds like a better idea to buy a Gskill Trident Z 3200Mhz 14CAS with Samsung B-die NAND chips and overclock to achieve "an even lower latency" than those expensive kits.

 

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And then reality sets in.

A pure and absolute Batman-themed build for theme’s sake would include an outrageously gorgeous Gotham City industrial graphics card (1st pic).

Unfortunately, this is a work build and I have to work for a living and currently the AMD Radeon Pro series (2nd pic) offers what I need most to get work finished over extra long hours to avoid tired strained eyes, ho hum, reality check.

AMD offers two skus less expensive that this, yet 4GB memory is sort of a minimum accepted standard for extremely sharp and detailed text within the workstation community so I found out. The next sku up from this needs an external PSU power source (cable) and I’m not certain I’d gain anything for my work experience. This little card runs all day long pulling only 50watts, and is easily rendered perfectly inaudible at 18% on a custom fan curve created with MSI’s Afterburner software. I love this card so much for what it does so well. Even though it lacks in themed aesthetics.

 

[nickbaldwin86]

nice!

 

[E-curbi]

nice!

Sup Nick? Thanks for stopping by.


Just when you think you've removed all the thermal paste residue from your processor, there's always a little bit more - that stuff is tenacious.

Ok, the 8086K is looking much better, still some slight TIM of film - film of TIM remaining at the left side corners, yet that won't hinder any performance metrics that I know of. lol

Moving ahead with this build.

 

[E-curbi]

4.5second boot times, down from 6seconds with the Apex X and haven't even overclocked mem or CPU.

I have no idea what's going on, maybe there's a bios override-superboot as default setting? I'll find out when I delve deeper into all the settings.

I'll have some really nice photos up all day tomorrow, took a zillion pics - every single build step, some very interesting - some maybe not. Too tired to sort and caption tonight.

Can tell after only 4hours in Windows, the EVGA Z390 DARK is superfast, lower latency and more responsive than the Apex X. One of those things you can only feel when a board is in your hands, not from reviews or benchmarks, kick the tires and drive it around the block. lol

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The loop and tuck method worked out so well for the (2) 8-pins to CPU PWR, some sweet cable management.

Now that the mobo for the build is finally here, I'll use the string method like the Singularity Computers guy, and measure out some custom color sleeved and custom length Seasonic PSU cables from MOD-ONE, something I've dreamed about for a few years, and replace these stock flat-ribbons.

It's still just an air-build for now, but a pretty cool air-build.

 

[E-curbi]

I believe the extremely low boot times are due to booting Windows 10 from this very small capacity 32GB Optane M.2 SSD (pic below). It’s fine for the OS and overclocking apps and hardware monitoring apps, great for testing a new board, yet not anywhere near enough capacity for my work apps.

So there’s the dilemma, I’ll have to go ahead and grab the 900P at 280GB capacity (for the third time), since Intel refuses to launch the 905P at lower capacities, or could always run my work apps from one of the four Samsung 860 Pro SATA drives mounted within the Supermicro drive bay, yet there goes all my low latency out the window - defeats the entire concept and purpose of the build.

Oh Intel, haven’t you made enough money selling the 905P 960GB and 1.5TB capacities at $1200 and $2200 per drive since last May already? Where are the 480GB and 280GB capacity Add In Cards?

In addition, the Apex IX and X boards have always offered extremely low boot times, maybe a cumulative effect of only two DIMM slots to load, and both being stripped down performance boards. At least I can be reassured the EVGA Z390 DARK carries on the same or an improved level of performance.

So at 6:25 in the morning, happy with the new EVGA board, frustrated with Intel, and running on no sleep.

 

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WOW, found a great deal on the EVGA Z390 DARK (image below).

Only a Pre-Order, so you may have to wait 2-3weeks, but still only $399 from B&H Photo New York City. Guess I paid a $100 early adopters fee. That's ok, EVGA needs that R&D money for the Z470 DARK arriving next January 2020. lol

Found the Apex 11 as low as 369euros so $419USD. Wouldn't it be funny if the Apex 11 launched at $399 here in the US and both boards ended up at the same price? lol

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2nd and 3rd photos: from the 2nd pic it appears as though the very thick 24-pin cable is too bulky and in the way with no easy or simple cable management solution. On the contrary, I have (2) CaseLabs solid aluminum accessory mounts in the gunmetal gray, one flat and one with a 0.5in offset which the Singularity Computer D5 pump top and base and Aquacomputer D5 pump subassembly will rest on with (4) Sorbothane .75in Hemispheres durometer 50 to isolate the pump ... into the inaudible range. So the bulk of the cable will all be hidden below the pump mounting and only the 24-pin plug and a few millimeters of cabling will peek out from below.

...pure awesomeness


Apologize for building so slowly, there are so many options to explore, and this is only a motherboard installation. lol Imagine an entire build from scratch? That would take a full month.

 

[E-curbi]

Going over thermals on the new mobo. No sensors available yet within CPUID HWMonitor for the “EVGA Corp. Z390 DARK” menu at the bottom (of this first image) is empty when expanded. I’ll try AIDA 64 Extreme and HWiNFO64 later today. No OC on the 8086K yet, that’s why idle temps are low, yet a nice 5.4Ghz all cores all threads and idle temps only move to the lower 30Cs to mid 30s at least with the Apex X board - the SL guy did an amazing job with the CPU delid and relid with Conductonaut - all 6 cores always idle within 2C of one another no matter what the overclock; 5.4Ghz 6C 12T profile or a 5.6Ghz 5.5 5.4 5.2 5.2 5.2 single core boost profile, which to me means he placed a very even layer of Conductonaut over the die before reseating the IHS.

The Intel MEMPEK1W032GA in the image below is the Optane 32GB M.2 drive and it usually idles all day long on the ASUS Apex X-ROG DIMM.2 at 47C (damn hot) the module adjacent to the memory DIMMs and 45C the other side of the DIMM.2 riser card. The M.2 socket positioning on the EVGA Z390 DARK board is a dramatic improvement as long as you are running only single-slot graphics as in my use case. Took that into consideration before deciding on the Z390 DARK. I worked all day yesterday with the new motherboard after installing a single work application and the Optane M.2 temp increased to only 37C passively (no active fan) and stabilized - extremely happy with that result.

If on the other hand, you are running a 2.5slot thick 2080Ti open design graphics card, then both M.2 socket positions on the Z390 DARK could become a real thermal issue, the graphics card pushing warm air down onto both M.2 heatsinks. With a 2.5slot card, I don’t believe the M.2 installed in the secondary position would fare any better than the primary. A solution for gaming would be simply using a SATA SSD or an Optane Add In Card in PCIe slot PE3 (marked below solid red arrow) on the Z390 DARK.

The (3) fans in the build are all set to inaudible. The large Noctua 140mm Industrial PWM 2000rpm-rated (Fan 2) goes inaudible at around 680rpms when mounted “without” the Noctua retention clips, those clips only act to compress the noise absorbing silicon corner mounts - diminishing their ability to isolate the fan, so it’s just a simple gravity mount, the fan resting on top the cooler’s horizontal bank of vertical fins. The desk rumbling crazy-loud out of the box 15,000rpm Sanyo Denki 40mmx28mm PWM fan (Fan 1) mounted within the Supermicro 8-bay 2.5in drive cage goes inaudible around 1200rpms, both controlled by an Aquacomputer Aquaero 6 LT mounted internally and AquaSuite 2018-9 software. As already stated, the AMD WX 4100 graphics card fan moves to inaudible at 18% approximately 2000rpms using MSI Afterburner software. There’s really no need to run the Sanyo Denki fan at all since the (4) Samsung 860 Pro SATA SSDs in the Supermicro drive cage need no active cooling, yet the Aquaero 6 was/is right there with an empty fan port and although the fan is capable of extremely high rpms, it’s also very lightweight and easy to render inaudible with the Aquaero 6, and the (4) Samsung 860s run in the low 20Cs all day long, so I figured - why not?

Could easily run this entire build inaudible - all day long with only (2) fans (removing the drive cage fan), even with high CPU and memory overclocks - even after I remove the Optane M.2 initial testing drive and add an Optane 905P PCIe AIC 280GB SSD, and an Optane 905P M.2-U.2 280GB 2.5in SSD, since the lower capacity Optane drives require no active fan when using an open air chassis.

Very happy with the Z390 DARK so far, only hope it overclocks like a beast, or at the very least as well as the Apex X, will find out soon.

 

[E-curbi]

The all black Datavac ESD blower comes with electrostatic discharge-safe attachments and a grounding wrist strap, and a very nice shiny coat of gloss black paint and some fancy stickers, otherwise it’s the same unit mechanically as the standard white blower. Is it worth the extra $25? Probably not, but after using the white sku since 2013 after 4years and beginning this Dark Knight Batman build, I just needed a change, love the black unit so much it's gorgeous, although at $105 Datavac should offer a low-speed switch for the electric motor. Only a single speed, HIGH all the time is too much air pressure for some delicate parts like socket pins and lightweight fans. You can always compensate by moving the blower back at some distance from a delicate component before turning it on, but still a low-speed toggle switch would be a very nice addition. Purchased canned-air for a couple years before it just became silly at $6-$8 for every single low-pressure can, back then the white Datavacs were only $55 and paid for themselves in no time at all.


gf: why is it called a vac if it blows, but doesn’t suck?





...taking the rest of the day off to learn the Z390 DARK's bios

I spin up the Noctua 140mm Industrial fan to 1200rpms - "audible yet comfortable" for attempting new CPU overclocks.

 

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Very first overclock with the Z390 DARK.
Here's the 8086K 5.3Ghz 6cores 12threads OC, easy peasy with this board man no effort at all!

And look at those idle temps not so bad, not so bad.

Not wanting to go into 5.4 5.5 or 5.6 until I understand the bios better, everything says VLL this and VCC-VLL-VAA that, what the heck, where are my ROG digi+ settings? lololol

 

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The above overclock is really just an initial test of basic workings of the motherboard, do I need to return it? Did I plug everything in correctly? Is my thermal paste application and mounting pressure for the Noctua C14S air cooler ok to proceed? It's not a performance push at all, it's a safety check and fault finder of any possible personal build shortcomings.

So far, everything appears ok.

An update on the Wera RedBull driver I grabbed especially for this build. It's been extremely useful today remounting the radiators, the grip is ideal for big hands like mine, yet I went back to an old friend the blue-white handle Wera stainless driver for most of the mobo installation since the mobo fasteners require a very thin driver tip to function within a restricted space.

Did use the Wera RedBull (2nd pic below) for the powerful magnetic grip it has on the fasteners to initially position and thread the Noctua cooler thumbscrews (I hate dropping fasteners down into a build - onto a motherboard), then tightened down the Noctua thumbscrews secure with only finger pressure. The Noctua mounting hardware is superb.

 

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EVGA began an OC Lab in their forum only 2days ago for the Z390 DARK board. Fantastic. Vince Kingpin already posted a memory OC guide, so you know what that means OH YEA!

https://forums.evga.com/EVGA-OC-Lab-f109.aspx

My very first EVGA motherboard and they start an OC LAB, is that great timing or what? Thanks EVGA, you so ROCK!

I'll be working towards that sweet 4000Mhz 13CAS super-responsive overclock for my Trident Z 3200Mhz 14CAS quad kit cut in half.

14/3200 x 1000 = 4.375 ... 3200 14 XMP out of the box

17/4133 x 1000 = 4.113 ... barely lower than the 3200 14 XMP

17/4400 x 1000 = 3.864 ... fantastic!

13/4000 x 1000 = 3.250 ... the winner by far!


Also an update on that B&H Photo Z390 DARK pre-order, noticed today they changed the price from $399 back up to $499.

I hope some TPU members got lucky and got their pre-order in at the lower $399 price point...

This image below: the area within the white square will be covered/hidden by the D5 pump accessory mounting plate, so the bulky 24-pin is nicely tucked out of the way.

 

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This is what I was getting on about in the last post - the bulk of the 24-pin is covered and out of view by the D5 pump mounting base, superclean.


LOVE the EVGA 90-degree rotated power connectors so much.

Some sweet cable management, oh yea!

 

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More cable management:

The Supermicro Reverse Breakout Mini SAS HD SFF-8643 to 4 SATA cable is not pretty, thought about sleeving it, yet the majority is hidden out of view and it does add a slight industrial workstation aesthetic to the build.

https://store.supermicro.com/55cm-minisas-sata-cbl-sast-0631.html

The E-ATX form factor of the Z390 DARK board allows for connecting the (4) Samsung 860 Pro 2.5inch SATA SSDs mounted in the Supermicro hot swap drive cage from directly below through a chassis cable pass-through.

 

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Cable management completed and in retrospect:


Well done EVGA Well done!


The Batmobile computer wheels will be ready on Monday, I'll drive over to the machine shop pick them up and mount them up.