Cooling problems persist on LGA1700

[fusseli]

Same settings, OC on the memory
That's Enforced 253w power limit
Windows in Balanced mode.
Even installed core temp for better comparisons. (not that I think core four really got that hot?? false reading??* haven't used this in years.)

Your score looks fine, but wattage is high still. Should be able 253w enforced 5.7ghz (leave it all auto) 6000Mhz boost, 4.4 E-cores and 5ghz cache boost. Should hit close to 16800/16900 pts area, but actually be using less wattage than you are now. Wattage = heat dissipated. Try the stock enforced power limit settings under the Asus Core Performance Enhancement or w/e it's called. Should look better then. Just do your memory tweaks otherwise.

*****No reason to loose performance at a higher wattage (If Core Temp is accurate for that?)*****

View attachment 390657

EDIT: Update.

I flicked the chiller on to test the core temps vs hwinfo64. Looks close enough to me.

Here's a couple more screenies.

This is with LLC manually set to Lvl 2 Asus Bios. Score went up.
Temps went down, but that's my fault. I just know what it gets down to in temp on hwinfo64. (2c)

View attachment 390668View attachment 390669View attachment 390670

Are you saying leave 6.0 to TVB, or to change turbo ratios to hit 6.0 without TVB?

My cpu LLC is presently at 3, I will have to try 2. Setting intel extreme (253W) actually sets it to LLC level 4 by Asus so I’ve been turning it back down.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Are you saying leave 6.0 to TVB, or to change turbo ratios to hit 6.0 without TVB?

My cpu LLC is presently at 3, I will have to try 2. Setting intel extreme (253W) actually sets it to LLC level 4 by Asus so I’ve been turning it back down.

TVB auto (auto = enabled). The cpu defaults short term 6ghz single core by default. All core loads are 5.7ghz default.

Intel extreme profile lifts power limits and uses LLC lvl4. Probably why it's near 280w.

Asus Multi-core enhancement set to enforce 253w limit. LLC should be no high than lvl 3. At default, the power limits are lifted. You want to enforce 253w. It'll still perform well, but be easy to keep cool.

 

[fusseli]

TVB auto (auto = enabled). The cpu defaults short term 6ghz single core by default. All core loads are 5.7ghz default.

Intel extreme profile lifts power limits and uses LLC lvl4. Probably why it's near 280w.

Asus Multi-core enhancement set to enforce 253w limit. LLC should be no high than lvl 3. At default, the power limits are lifted. You want to enforce 253w. It'll still perform well, but be easy to keep cool.

Intel extreme on my board sets 253W on both long-term and short term power limits. My cpuz scores still seem low and I can’t seem to make them go higher, I have tried quite a few combinations. I cannot seem to get higher than like 915/14300. My heat is very good, fully loaded is only like 85C.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Intel extreme on my board sets 253W on both long-term and short term power limits. My cpuz scores still seem low and I can’t seem to make them go higher, I have tried quite a few combinations. I cannot seem to get higher than like 915/14300. My heat is very good, fully loaded is only like 85C.

What you report is way off from what I'm asking of you to accomplish.
It's not 253w because MCE is set Auto = enabled lifted power limits.
Your previous screen shot even shows the power limit is lifted.
Don't use Intel Extreme Profile. This is snake oil.

Step 1. Clear cmos.
Step 2. Set XMP.
Step 3. Set MCE to enforce 253w limits.
Step 4. F10 save, enter windows.
Step 5. In windows testing CPU-Z benchmark again.
Step 6. Re-enter bios, now set only LLC to LVL 2. F10 save/restart.
Step 6. Compare results LLC lvl 2 and lvl 3.
Step 7. Share screen shots here.

That's all you need to do.
You score should be over 16k Cpu-z with the above settings. (14900K)
If not closer to 17K+. Let's say like 16.5k to 17.5k range.

 

[fusseli]

What you report is way off from what I'm asking of you to accomplish.
It's not 253w because MCE is set Auto = enabled lifted power limits.
Your previous screen shot even shows the power limit is lifted.
Don't use Intel Extreme Profile. This is snake oil.

Step 1. Clear cmos.
Step 2. Set XMP.
Step 3. Set MCE to enforce 253w limits.
Step 4. F10 save, enter windows.
Step 5. In windows testing CPU-Z benchmark again.
Step 6. Re-enter bios, now set only LLC to LVL 2. F10 save/restart.
Step 6. Compare results LLC lvl 2 and lvl 3.
Step 7. Share screen shots here.

That's all you need to do.
You score should be over 16k Cpu-z with the above settings. (14900K)
If not closer to 17K+. Let's say like 16.5k to 17.5k range.

Sure, I'll try it. I'm not stupid. MCE is off and has been off. Turning Asus MCE on actually REMOVES limits, not set them at 253W by the way.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Sure, I'll try it. I'm not stupid. MCE is off and has been off.

Oh that's totally my fault, I honestly thought I didn't explain it well.
Optimistically, it might help new guys trying to figure out the possible cooling issue.

There is no such thing is MCE "off".
It's - Auto/Limits lifted and Limits lifted 90c (throttle lowered to 90c) and 253w enforced.

 

[fusseli]

Disabled = OFF, for regular people

Your tip actually lowers my cpuz scores.

1st pic: bios reset, MCE off, XMPI
2nd pic: no other changes besides CPU LLC --> Level 2

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Disabled = OFF, for regular people

Your tip actually lowers my cpuz scores.

1st pic: bios reset, MCE off, XMPI
2nd pic: no other changes besides CPU LLC --> Level 2

View attachment 390810View attachment 390811

Man, I just don't know about this from here. Feels like bait sauce.

Sorry man. Can't help.
I'm out.

 

[fusseli]

And here's no other changes besides turning MCE on / remove all limits / 90C:

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Nah man. Your telling us.

Intel extreme profile
MCE 253w enforced
Show a screen shot of 270w
And have score like running 180w.
Screen shots that I can't validated time/date.
And even the Cpu-z compare shows like 16.9K
Which would be right for 253w power limit.

This chip, if the cooling is as good as they say, should be able to impress me with no less than 5.8ghz P-core and 4.5ghz E-core with MCE lifted 90c and only use of LLC Lvl 4 Asus Strix motherboard. This is how you get more performance. Or select a couple core to hit 6.2ghz. Look at XTU to figure out which cores are the fastest.

But no, you think my suggestions are false and want to paint a different picture. I'm sorry, that's not gonna happen today.

I could say fix OS, fresh OS, but you'll say you've done that a bunch.

Top board. Top Cpu. Entry lvl cooling. Unknown ambient temps. Unknown humidity. We just get strange return comments.

 

[fusseli]

Nah man. Your telling us.

Intel extreme profile
MCE 253w enforced
Show a screen shot of 270w
And have score like running 180w.
Screen shots that I can't validated time/date.
And even the Cpu-z compare shows like 16.9K
Which would be right for 253w power limit.

This chip, if the cooling is as good as they say, should be able to impress me with no less than 5.8ghz P-core and 4.5ghz E-core with MCE lifted 90c and only use of LLC Lvl 4 Asus Strix motherboard. This is how you get more performance. Or select a couple core to hit 6.2ghz. Look at XTU to figure out which cores are the fastest.

But no, you think my suggestions are false and want to paint a different picture. I'm sorry, that's not gonna happen today.

I could say fix OS, fresh OS, but you'll say you've done that a bunch.

Top board. Top Cpu. Entry lvl cooling. Unknown ambient temps. Unknown humidity. We just get strange return comments.

You are mixing up my screenshots bro. Thanks for the inputs. I'll post back once I figure out what's going on. For now I'm just relieved by the sane temperatures I'm getting on a better MB and fresh 14900K compared to my old combo.

This guy has a very similar issue as what I'm seeing now:

ASUS Z790 Dark Hero + 14900K Newest Bios 1801

Hey Guys, I have installed the newest Bios for my Motherboard 1801 since 1 Hour ago. The Performance is lost. All Settings in Bios is set to Intels Extreme Preset. But the Score of CPU-Z Bench are very slow. What can i make to do its normal? Screenshot is Posted.

rog-forum.asus.com

It might be this newish bios, 1801, on this MB. I just can't win here

 

[ShrimpBrime]

You are mixing up my screenshots bro. Thanks for the inputs. I'll post back once I figure out what's going on. For now I'm just relieved by the sane temperatures I'm getting on a better MB and fresh 14900K compared to my old combo.

This guy has a very similar issue as what I'm seeing now:

ASUS Z790 Dark Hero + 14900K Newest Bios 1801

Hey Guys, I have installed the newest Bios for my Motherboard 1801 since 1 Hour ago. The Performance is lost. All Settings in Bios is set to Intels Extreme Preset. But the Score of CPU-Z Bench are very slow. What can i make to do its normal? Screenshot is Posted.

rog-forum.asus.com

It might be this newish bios, 1801, on this MB. I just can't win here

You don't have that board.
1801 for your board is 2 years old bios (newish??)

There has been 9 bios versions available for your board since version 1801.

 

[fusseli]

You don't have that board.
1801 for your board is 2 years old bios (newish??)

There has been 9 bios versions available for your board since version 1801.

What are you talking about, kid?

1801 came out three months ago for my (new) Z790A and is the latest version. I flashed to that as soon as I got it. The guy on the rog forum with the dark hero updated to the same new version for his board that came out at the same time and has the same performance drop problem. So it’s either an Asus problem or an Intel microcode problem.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

What are you talking about, kid?

1801 came out three months ago for my (new) Z790A and is the latest version. I flashed to that as soon as I got it. The guy on the rog forum with the dark hero updated to the same new version for his board that came out at the same time and has the same performance drop problem. So it’s either an Asus problem or an Intel microcode problem.

I did a direct copy paste of your motherboard model then went to the bios tab.

2801 is the most current for your board.

This is not your board??

ROG STRIX Z790-A GAMING WIFI | Motherboards | ROG United States

The ROG Strix Z790-A sets a pristine white backdrop to builds and unlocks the full potential of Intel 13th Gen processors and DDR5 memory.

rog.asus.com

Also, my kid is well into his 20's. I'm quite a bit older than a kid.

 

[fusseli]

I did a direct copy paste of your motherboard model then went to the bios tab.

2801 is the most current for your board.

This is not your board??

ROG STRIX Z790-A GAMING WIFI | Motherboards | ROG United States

The ROG Strix Z790-A sets a pristine white backdrop to builds and unlocks the full potential of Intel 13th Gen processors and DDR5 memory.

rog.asus.com

Also, my kid is well into his 20's. I'm quite a bit older than a kid.

That is not my board, I have the newer WiFi-II / Wifi7 version

ROG STRIX Z790-A GAMING WIFI II | Gaming motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG USA

Experience unrivaled gaming performance with ROG Strix Z790-A Gaming WIFI II. Discover overclocking prowess, DIY-friendly features, exceptional connectivity, and more!

rog.asus.com

Maybe this is just a CPU-Z thing? I just ran Cinebench 2024 and I got 128/2064 scores -- baseline for 14900K is 128/2075. So it's good this baseline matches. But I wonder why CPU-Z reads low and scores go down and not up for what should be easy tweaks.

Cinebench 2024 & R23 Benchmark Scores

See our regularly updated list of all CPUs tested in the Cinebench 2024 & R23 benchmarks (single and multi-core results).

nanoreview.net

 

[ShrimpBrime]

That is not my board, I have the newer WiFi-II / Wifi7 version

ROG STRIX Z790-A GAMING WIFI II | Gaming motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG USA

Experience unrivaled gaming performance with ROG Strix Z790-A Gaming WIFI II. Discover overclocking prowess, DIY-friendly features, exceptional connectivity, and more!

rog.asus.com

Maybe this is just a CPU-Z thing? I just ran Cinebench 2024 and I got 128/2064 scores -- baseline for 14900K is 128/2075. So it's good this baseline matches. But I wonder why CPU-Z reads low and scores go down and not up for what should be easy tweaks.

Cinebench 2024 & R23 Benchmark Scores

See our regularly updated list of all CPUs tested in the Cinebench 2024 & R23 benchmarks (single and multi-core results).

nanoreview.net

View attachment 390890

Maybe? Not sure. Sorry bout the board, your system specs don't include "II" but I guess wifi 7 should have pointed me in the right direction.

Cpuz is generally accurate. No sure why the score is so low.

Won't be able to compare for a while, I'm at the shop.

 

[Gyiyg]

maybe the cpu have a problem (Intel-disaster 13 & 14 th. gen)

And maybe he got a particularly bad CPU (unlucky I guess). There's no way an i7 14700k would just hit 100C doing anything while under a 360mm or a 280mm AIO.

 

[fusseli]

And maybe he got a particularly bad CPU (unlucky I guess). There's no way an i7 14700k would just hit 100C doing anything while under a 360mm or a 280mm AIO.

I think my 14700K was a bad / lower binned cpu. It ran incredibly hot with or without oc and did not oc stable beyond 5.6.

According to the bios scores this new 14900K is average, not great not terrible SP 95. The problem is any tweaks aren’t increasing my cpuz scores.

Right now my theory is the low cpuz score may be a windows power plan issue interfering somehow. Like the guy on the ROG forum, if I change windows power plan to high performance or GameTurbo high performance, my scores DROP farther from 915 ST to 850-880 ST in cpuz. Changing the plan to Balanced gives the highest score of 915 which is still low.

This is why I ran cinebench 24 to compare to, and since it is matching to the 14900K baseline with Intel defaults loaded in bios I’m less worried it’s an actuall performance problem. But something’s going on.

 

[kiddagoat]

So, here's a question, when you are using your system for your usual tasks and not running benchmarks, are you happy with how it is running? At this point, I'd just say use your system and enjoy. This chasing 2-3% improvement isn't worth the effort.

You got your cooling under control and are no longer throttling, that's a win.

As I noted before, the newer hardware is pushed to the limit out of the box. Those big gains from OC are over. Any sort of manual tweaking is going throw off the internal sensors/algorithms the hardware is set to use to determine boost clock, voltage, temperature, etc. If you are getting the advertised clocks out of it, leave it alone.

 

[fusseli]

So, here's a question, when you are using your system for your usual tasks and not running benchmarks, are you happy with how it is running? At this point, I'd just say use your system and enjoy. This chasing 2-3% improvement isn't worth the effort.

You got your cooling under control and are no longer throttling, that's a win.

As I noted before, the newer hardware is pushed to the limit out of the box. Those big gains from OC are over. Any sort of manual tweaking is going throw off the internal sensors/algorithms the hardware is set to use to determine boost clock, voltage, temperature, etc. If you are getting the advertised clocks out of it, leave it alone.

Yeah, I tend to agree. I definitely call this a win having fixed the temperature problem by flipping the GB/14700k for a Strix/14900k. It will absolutely run lower and have less stutter in gaming since it will not ever throttle thermally.

It's a little let down since my 13900KS and Z790 Hero OC to 6.1 and get 970+ ST score in cpuz, but honestly it doesn't matter. That rig is for work which benefits greatly from that OC whereas my home rig on the 14900K is really just for gaming where the true ST score will never matter. Most games I play are around a 25-70% load. Not throttling and boosting as much as possible will surely be best for that.