Crossfire - any benefit?

[AusWolf]

Just those modern games supporting DX12 well show its not dead. Just not being pushed due to the economics of it. Once more people get multi-GPU setups and it claws marketshare for 8K gaming, you'll see a resurgence.

If it's "being pushed out due to the economics of it", then why should "more people get multi-GPU setups"?

Another big question: do you know any modern mainstream platform that natively supports dual x16 PCI-e slots for a multi GPU setup? I don't mean x4 wired into a physical x16 slot, but real x16. Personally, I don't. Ryzen 5000 series chips have 24 lanes, 4 of which go towards the chipset, another 4 to the primary m.2 slot. 11th gen Intel Core has 20 lanes, 4 of which again, go to m.2. 12th gen Core likewise.

Edit: Back in the days, I tried to run my HD 7770 in my motherboard's secondary slot just to see how much bottleneck running it off the chipset instead of the CPU produces. Some games were OK, but some were unplayable. And that's with a (back then) middle-class card. Imagine that with a modern high-performance GPU.

 

[Selaya]

ADL's PCIe 5.0 surely will bring back mGPU in the form of 2x8 PCIe 5.0 !11!11!1!!11111oneoneeleven

 

[Toothless]

If it's "being pushed out due to the economics of it", then why should "more people get multi-GPU setups"?

Another big question: do you know any modern mainstream platform that natively supports dual x16 PCI-e slots for a multi GPU setup? I don't mean x4 wired into a physical x16 slot, but real x16. Personally, I don't. Ryzen 5000 series chips have 24 lanes, 4 of which go towards the chipset, another 4 to the primary m.2 slot. 11th gen Intel Core has 20 lanes, 4 of which again, go to m.2. 12th gen Core likewise.

Edit: Back in the days, I tried to run my HD 7770 in my motherboard's secondary slot just to see how much bottleneck running it off the chipset instead of the CPU produces. Some games were OK, but some were unplayable. And that's with a (back then) middle-class card. Imagine that with a modern high-performance GPU.

To be fair, PCI tests have been done so many times with a 1-2% difference.

 

[AusWolf]

To be fair, PCI tests have been done so many times with a 1-2% difference.

Yes, running off the CPU. Once you put your card into a slot that feeds off the chipset (sharing bandwidth with basically everything else in your system), that's a different story.

Edit: No wonder why old Crossfire setups produced a stuttery mess compared to SLI. While nvidia mandated PCI-e x8/x8 bifurcation for SLI to work, ATi/AMD allowed CF to work in x16/x4 mode with the second slot being wired through the chipset.

 

[Mussels]

If it's "being pushed out due to the economics of it", then why should "more people get multi-GPU setups"?

Another big question: do you know any modern mainstream platform that natively supports dual x16 PCI-e slots for a multi GPU setup? I don't mean x4 wired into a physical x16 slot, but real x16. Personally, I don't. Ryzen 5000 series chips have 24 lanes, 4 of which go towards the chipset, another 4 to the primary m.2 slot. 11th gen Intel Core has 20 lanes, 4 of which again, go to m.2. 12th gen Core likewise.

Edit: Back in the days, I tried to run my HD 7770 in my motherboard's secondary slot just to see how much bottleneck running it off the chipset instead of the CPU produces. Some games were OK, but some were unplayable. And that's with a (back then) middle-class card. Imagine that with a modern high-performance GPU.

8x 4.0 can handle a 3090 with room to spare, with results in margin of error

If we could use asymmetric mGPU, I could have slapped my GTX 1080 in my 3.0 x4 slot and still got a boost

 

[AusWolf]

8x 4.0 can handle a 3090 with room to spare, with results in margin of error

If we could use asymmetric mGPU, I could have slapped my GTX 1080 in my 3.0 x4 slot and still got a boost

Well, I see your motherboard supports dual x8 PCI-e, so happy days. Most motherboards don't, though (afaik).

 

[Toothless]

Well, I see your motherboard supports dual x8 PCI-e, so happy days. Most motherboards don't, though (afaik).

Most do, just ends up being what all you actually have installed.

 

[Mussels]

Well, I see your motherboard supports dual x8 PCI-e, so happy days. Most motherboards don't, though (afaik).

pretty sure all x570 do it, SLI support or not
X_70 chipsets are all 8x/8x (At Gen 3 or Gen 4) - SLI support is optional since they have to pay for it, while crossfire is free
Looks like the Bx50 and Ax20 chipsets are 16/x4 and16x 1x/1x so most dont even have a second large slot

 

[AusWolf]

pretty sure all x570 do it, SLI support or not
X_70 chipsets are all 8x/8x (At Gen 3 or Gen 4)

I didn't know. Interesting.

Anyway, time for some videos:

And something for fun:

 

[phill]

I miss SLI/Crossfire. Loved running it, never really any issues with the systems and cards I ran, maybe I was lucky but really hope they bring it back. You buy a big case now and just have a single GPU in it, no matter how many slots the damn thing is, it just looks empty.

Ah to have 2 3090s in a rig and crunch and game on them with them both being used... Ah, that would be lovely....

Still, I suppose if you really would like to run it, install an older OS or OS version, use the drivers that support it still and away you go if you have the cards and hardware to hand... It was fun to play with and fun seeing the differences, to much time and money spent, loved it

 

[Outback Bronze]

I miss SLI/Crossfire. Loved running it, never really any issues with the systems and cards I ran, maybe I was lucky but really hope they bring it back. You buy a big case now and just have a single GPU in it, no matter how many slots the damn thing is, it just looks empty.

Ah to have 2 3090s in a rig and crunch and game on them with them both being used... Ah, that would be lovely....

Still, I suppose if you really would like to run it, install an older OS or OS version, use the drivers that support it still and away you go if you have the cards and hardware to hand... It was fun to play with and fun seeing the differences, to much time and money spent, loved it

Ditto matey

Pretty sure my first SLI setup was 2x 7950GT's. It was pretty kick ass at the time. I'm sure it was run on the original Core 2 E6600.

Had many xfire SLI setups.

 

[AusWolf]

I miss SLI/Crossfire. Loved running it, never really any issues with the systems and cards I ran, maybe I was lucky but really hope they bring it back. You buy a big case now and just have a single GPU in it, no matter how many slots the damn thing is, it just looks empty.

I'm the exact opposite. I've always loved to cram as much power as I could into the smallest cases ever since mATX and ITX were invented. But I see where you're coming from.

 

[phill]

I won't derail the thread anymore but I hope they can bring it back

Still, back to the thread point, when SLI or Crossfire worked, it really did work well I guess it was more for people that wished for more performance but there was nothing faster, so slap another good card in and away you go!

I'm the exact opposite. I've always loved to cram as much power as I could into the smallest cases ever since mATX and ITX were invented. But I see where you're coming from.

Cram Crossfire/SLI into a small case, I'd love to see it Might need something a bit bigger than a ITX board tho.... lol

 

[AusWolf]

Cram Crossfire/SLI into a small case, I'd love to see it Might need something a bit bigger than a ITX board tho.... lol

That's my point... a single GPU is not only more practical in general, but fits my needs better.

 

[The red spirit]

Fact is no single gpu is ever going to play games maxed out at the resolutions we're starting to push, at the hz we want.

Until Jen Hsun pops out BFGPU out of his oven

 

[bug]

I miss SLI/Crossfire. Loved running it, never really any issues with the systems and cards I ran, maybe I was lucky but really hope they bring it back. You buy a big case now and just have a single GPU in it, no matter how many slots the damn thing is, it just looks empty.

Ah to have 2 3090s in a rig and crunch and game on them with them both being used... Ah, that would be lovely....

Still, I suppose if you really would like to run it, install an older OS or OS version, use the drivers that support it still and away you go if you have the cards and hardware to hand... It was fun to play with and fun seeing the differences, to much time and money spent, loved it

Can't do that, Turing doesn't do SLI, just mGPU.

In theory mGPU is a better idea than SLI. In practice, testing with more than one GPU easily quadruples the volume of work (test with one GPU, test with matching GPUs, test with a few mismatching GPUs). It's simply not worth the effort when SLI never broke 2% market share.
Nvidia had the in-house knowledge to do it, they could probably do it for cheap(er). But even they gave up, it's now an even taller order for individual developers. Some of the bigger ones have bitten the bullet, it remains to be seen whether they will continue to do so.

 

[phill]

Can't do that, Turing doesn't do SLI, just mGPU.

In theory mGPU is a better idea than SLI. In practice, testing with more than one GPU easily quadruples the volume of work (test with one GPU, test with matching GPUs, test with a few mismatching GPUs). It's simply not worth the effort when SLI never broke 2% market share.
Nvidia had the in-house knowledge to do it, they could probably do it for cheap(er). But even they gave up, it's now an even taller order for individual developers. Some of the bigger ones have bitten the bullet, it remains to be seen whether they will continue to do so.

Whatever its called, I'd like it!! Not that we could ever find enough GPUs to actually install one but that's another problem

Either way, it was a shame. It was great fun to play with and game on I found

 

[bug]

Whatever its called, I'd like it!! Not that we could ever find enough GPUs to actually install one but that's another problem

Yes, but look at the downside: if we still had SLI in games, now we wouldn't be buying 2-3 RTX3090 cards. Imagine how much money we would be saving!

Either way, it was a shame. It was great fun to play with and game on I found

You got lucky, most reports I have seen were about grief and anguish. I can imagine it was pretty sweet pairing a couple of high-end cards, but for anything else, it was always better to go with one faster card instead.

 

[defaultluser]

^ This.

DX12 was meant to take over multi GPU and let us work with mixed GPU's, but it was designed too complicated to implement so the tech died.

This is incorrect. Before games started adding more advanced layering of effects, it was easier to get AFR hacks working for each individual game; with DX11-and-later generation, it's become too hard to get anywhere near the earlier 80-90% speedup (so they handed-off the problem to game developers, utilizing DX12.)

It's not the fact that DX12 makes the tech too hard (look at all the modern game engines utilizing both DX12 and Vulkan, if you don't believe in the maturity)...the problem is, you will still have unsolvable problems making AFR work inside these advanced effects pipelines (and the speedup for split-frame tops-out at 70%)

The tech will never be revived for mass-adoption, because nobody has a more-workable solution for modern game engines than SFR.

 

[Toothless]

Yes, but look at the downside: if we still had SLI in games, now we wouldn't be buying 2-3 RTX3090 cards. Imagine how much money we would be saving!

You got lucky, most reports I have seen were about grief and anguish. I can imagine it was pretty sweet pairing a couple of high-end cards, but for anything else, it was always better to go with one faster card instead.

3090 still does support it. NVIDIA for whatever reason kept it just for that card.

Edit: Just gonna say now I spoke before caffeine so I may have read your post wrong.

 

[Supertone]

If you want to be in the top tier of Time Spy and other benchmarks, then SLI or CF are the only way to do it. Some people live for this.. To each their own for sure!

 

[DemonicRyzen666]

Anyone want to help me on my mGPU list ?

A few of these games on this list have been shown to be using two gpu's on some youtube videos so they >??? Because I couldn't confirm any of it.

1. Ashes of the Singularity Nitrous engine Explicit mGPU use Game engine does it all
2. Battlefield I (Sli & crossfire support) Frostbite3
3. Battlefield V (Crossfire support) Frostbite3
4. Civilization VI (SLI maybe turing only for DX12) Gamebryo engine
5. Cyberpunk 2077 ???
6. Deiliver use the Moon (SLI supported) Unreal 4 engine
7. Deus ex Mankind divided (SLI supported, Crossfire supported) Dawn Engine
8. Forza Horizon 3 (SLI & crossfire supported) Unreal4
9. Froza horizon 4 (SLI supported) ForzaTech
10. Forza Motorsport 6 Apex (SLI supported & crossfire) FrozaTech
11. Forza Motorsport 7 (SLI supported) ForzaTech
12. Gears Of war 4 (SLI & crossfire Supported) Unreal4
13. Gears of war ulimate eidition (Crossfire & SLI supported) unreal3
14. horizon Zero Down ???
15. Journey to the Savage Planet (SLI For NVIDIA Turing GPUs) Unreal4 engine
16. Madden NFL 19 (SLI supported)Frostbite3
17. Madden NFL 20 (SLI support) Forstbite3
18. Merto Exodus (SLI only) A4engine
19. Minecraft RTX ???
20. mircosoft slight sumlator ???
21. Mortal Kombat 11 (SLI supported) unreal3
22. No Man's Sky (VulKan SLI support) VulKan
23. Red dead Rememption 2
24. Resident Evil 7 Biohazard (SLI & Crossfire supported)
25. Path of Exlie (SLI support)
26. Rise of the Tomb Raider (SLI Supported, Crossfire supported) The Foudation engine
27. Shadow of the Tomb Raider (D3D12AFR Both SLI and Crossfire, Not supported in DX11) The Foudation engine
28. Spiderman Remaster ???
29. Sniper Elite 4 (Crossfire & SLI supported )
30. Strange Brigade (SLI supported in Vulkan) Asura engine
31. The Meduim (SLI turing only Implicit) Unreal4 engine
32. The Outer Worlds (SLI For NVIDIA Turing GPUs above, Crossfire) Unreal4 engine
33. Totalwar Warhammer (Crossfire & SLI support)
34. Totalwar Wahammer II (SLI support)
35. watchdogs leigion ???
36. Will to live Online (SLI support)

around 15% of Dx12 games
about 141 Games on that list also support some type of raytracing or around 58%

 

[kapone32]

pretty sure all x570 do it, SLI support or not
X_70 chipsets are all 8x/8x (At Gen 3 or Gen 4) - SLI support is optional since they have to pay for it, while crossfire is free
Looks like the Bx50 and Ax20 chipsets are 16/x4 and16x 1x/1x so most dont even have a second large slot

Anyone want to help me on my mGPU list ?

A few of these games on this list have been shown to be using two gpu's on some youtube videos so they >??? Because I couldn't confirm any of it.

1. Ashes of the Singularity Nitrous engine Explicit mGPU use Game engine does it all
2. Battlefield I (Sli & crossfire support) Frostbite3
3. Battlefield V (Crossfire support) Frostbite3
4. Civilization VI (SLI maybe turing only for DX12) Gamebryo engine
5. Cyberpunk 2077 ???
6. Deiliver use the Moon (SLI supported) Unreal 4 engine
7. Deus ex Mankind divided (SLI supported, Crossfire supported) Dawn Engine
8. Forza Horizon 3 (SLI & crossfire supported) Unreal4
9. Froza horizon 4 (SLI supported) ForzaTech
10. Forza Motorsport 6 Apex (SLI supported & crossfire) FrozaTech
11. Forza Motorsport 7 (SLI supported) ForzaTech
12. Gears Of war 4 (SLI & crossfire Supported) Unreal4
13. Gears of war ulimate eidition (Crossfire & SLI supported) unreal3
14. horizon Zero Down ???
15. Journey to the Savage Planet (SLI For NVIDIA Turing GPUs) Unreal4 engine
16. Madden NFL 19 (SLI supported)Frostbite3
17. Madden NFL 20 (SLI support) Forstbite3
18. Merto Exodus (SLI only) A4engine
19. Minecraft RTX ???
20. mircosoft slight sumlator ???
21. Mortal Kombat 11 (SLI supported) unreal3
22. No Man's Sky (VulKan SLI support) VulKan
23. Red dead Rememption 2
24. Resident Evil 7 Biohazard (SLI & Crossfire supported)
25. Path of Exlie (SLI support)
26. Rise of the Tomb Raider (SLI Supported, Crossfire supported) The Foudation engine
27. Shadow of the Tomb Raider (D3D12AFR Both SLI and Crossfire, Not supported in DX11) The Foudation engine
28. Spiderman Remaster ???
29. Sniper Elite 4 (Crossfire & SLI supported )
30. Strange Brigade (SLI supported in Vulkan) Asura engine
31. The Meduim (SLI turing only Implicit) Unreal4 engine
32. The Outer Worlds (SLI For NVIDIA Turing GPUs above, Crossfire) Unreal4 engine
33. Totalwar Warhammer (Crossfire & SLI support)
34. Totalwar Wahammer II (SLI support)
35. watchdogs leigion ???
36. Will to live Online (SLI support)

around 15% of Dx12 games
about 141 Games on that list also support some type of raytracing or around 58%

You forgot Jedi Fallen Order. I can't speak for Nvidia but in order to get Mutli GPU working in most of those Games requiresit at the driver level. For TWWH2 you change the script but if the driver doesn't support it it won't work.

 

[DemonicRyzen666]

You forgot Jedi Fallen Order. I can't speak for Nvidia but in order to get Mutli GPU working in most of those Games requiresit at the driver level. For TWWH2 you change the script but if the driver doesn't support it it won't work.

I know I've been doing research on it. I've came across that AMD does some porting of stuff like that from old drivers if it's DX12 game that still uses drivers(flags) on the game engine. AMd usually ports it over to work for mGPU. I beleive Deus Ex Mankind Divided is one of those games.
I think a few of those games might be Dx11 Sli/Crossfire, One of the battlefield games is like that, I forget which one.

 

[Supertone]

Microsoft Flight Simulator X and 2004 were able to use SLI/Crossfire. MSFS 2020 doesn't as far as I know.